Post: #226

As I've said, it is truly reality defying how flakey Japanese girls normally are.

Problem is, I remember even when I first started approaching Japanese exchange students in my social circle before coming here, they were incredibly flakey.

Post: #227

(05-05-2014 01:14 AM)Fortitudinal Wrote:  

(05-04-2014 05:12 PM)Carlos100 Wrote:  Yes, always make friends with the bartenders. It should open up some social groups and (eventually) give you access to some quality, non-flakey women. That's my experience, FWIW.

Thanks man, Ill try that. Cuz its starting to get really, really old. . . Only problem is that it gets expensive, damn my good taste.

As Skotch said, it does take some patience. I didn't reach the break point with my local bar social group until after I had been hanging out there for over a year. That was before I found the manosphere, however, so if I had been more game aware I might have started closing more quickly.

I think age might have something to do with what kind of game you prefer. In 1998 when I lived in a different suburb of Tokyo and I was about 29, I didn't want to spend as much time sitting in a quiet jazz bar chatting up the regulars (often middle-aged men) and the workers. I just wanted the quick hook-up. As you mention, it also isn't a necessarily inexpensive pastime to sit in a bar for a few hours drinking some quality wine, scotch, and/or bourbon.

When I look back on it now, I realize that I missed out on opportunities with some absolutely gorgeous young women, some of whom gave me IOIs to which I was oblivious or didn't act on, who moved in the social circles of the regulars and employees at those bars. Since I wasn't game aware, however, even if I had pursued them I probably wouldn't have done it right anyway, but I regret not having tried.

Post: #228

I ended up sitting next to a very cute, self-described "office girl" on my flight to Tokyo (en route to Hong Kong) from Los Angeles. We spoke for hours out of the flight, and she also scuba-dives like I do. We exchanged info, and I guess I'll have to feel it out whether I think I'd close if I met her for a trip to scuba somewhere (she travels alone frequently) or if I met up with her in Tokyo. Given the stated flakiness of Japanese girls (she is 27 though) I wouldn't plan a whole trip around meeting up with her, but would give it a shot if there was another reason to head where I'd meet her anyway.

There were many IOI's but I just don't have a good sense of Japanese girls and how their IOI system works. Can anyone provide some normally used indicators?

Post: #229

(05-05-2014 11:30 PM)G_global Wrote:  Can anyone provide some normally used indicators?

If she allows insertion, she may be into you. Probably not, but maybe, and at least she isn't a flake.

I'm being serious here.

Post: #230

"IOIs" really don't mean jack in Japan. I've gotten shitloads of "IOIs" that would have meant something elsewhere, including girls who text you the next morning saying they had a great time and would like to meet up, but most of these end up flaking or radiosilencing. "Is she interested?" is the most useless question you can ask in Japan.

When dealing with Japanese girls, I've learned never to think. Just do.

Post: #231

(05-05-2014 11:40 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 11:30 PM)G_global Wrote:  Can anyone provide some normally used indicators?

If she allows insertion, she may be into you. Probably not, but maybe, and at least she isn't a flake.

I'm being serious here.

Over the years I've gotten perhaps 10 emails/phone numbers from J-girls that I've talked to on airplanes, some of them for hours. None of them ever panned-out, although I didn't give all of them equal effort.

Because of the flakiness of J-girls when you aren't part of one of their social circles, I would suggest getting her to travel to you instead of you to her. If you're going to go scuba diving in Mexico or Taiwan, for example, shoot her an email a few weeks beforehand and tell her about your planned trip and see if she wants to come. I know I don't need to tell you not to offer to pay her way. You never know, she might pay her own way there to join you on your trip. I'd say it's a 1-10% chance, but it's a chance.

Post: #232

I remember a bit less than a year ago, I overheard this fresh-off-the-boat Gaijin talking in English to a group of Japanese about some pretty girl he'd had a long, charming conversation with on the train. They had supposedly exchanged Facebook information, and he (about 15-17 years old, I'd guess) was saying all rosey-eyed how he hoped he'd see her again...

Looking back on that, I think...

Post: #233

(05-05-2014 01:32 AM)Sargon of Akkad Wrote:  As I've said, it is truly reality defying how flakey Japanese girls normally are.

Problem is, I remember even when I first started approaching Japanese exchange students in my social circle before coming here, they were incredibly flakey.

See, I had the opposite experience.In Canada J-girl agrees to date, and she will be there rain or shine.

Here, whole different ballgame. Hell, I cant even get girls to do work for me --nothing dirty, nothing that complicated and relatively well PAID. I sometimes even throw lunch if Im hungry. Baffling.

Complete headscratcher. Maybe I am a smelly gaijin.

Post: #234

(05-05-2014 01:30 AM)Skotch Wrote:  I really don't mind being ana kyoudai (hole brothers), though I'd obviously prefer to be the #1. You're not gonna be with many quality women who have never had a peener up in their guts, so it doesn't much matter if it's someone you know. Plus, that thing is self cleaning if you give it some time.

I dont expect to find virgin maidens out here, but sharing a woman with a buddy is something I'm just not down with ... I may be a kinky mo-fo, but something like that is just not my speed.

Unless, perhaps, the odd chance she is a freak supastar in the bedroom; then I can overlook some details. Thank god for booze.

Post: #235

(05-06-2014 03:31 AM)Fortitudinal Wrote:  See, I had the opposite experience.In Canada J-girl agrees to date, and she will be there rain or shine.

Were these actually women from Japan (i.e. raised there) or were they just Canadian women of Japanese descent?

Post: #236

(05-06-2014 03:54 AM)Fortitudinal Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 01:30 AM)Skotch Wrote:  I really don't mind being ana kyoudai (hole brothers), though I'd obviously prefer to be the #1. You're not gonna be with many quality women who have never had a peener up in their guts, so it doesn't much matter if it's someone you know. Plus, that thing is self cleaning if you give it some time.

I dont expect to find virgin maidens out here, but sharing a woman with a buddy is something I'm just not down with ... I may be a kinky mo-fo, but something like that is just not my speed.

Unless, perhaps, the odd chance she is a freak supastar in the bedroom; then I can overlook some details. Thank god for booze.

A girl who was getting on my nerves I pushed off onto three of my casual friends. She's the same one I mentioned in an earlier post who had the lamp broken over her head by my psycho ex-girlfriend. One of the guys I pushed her at was actually a masculine, confident guy with good game, but she still kept trying to come back to me. Perhaps pushing a girl who likes you at other guys makes you look even more high value and desirable.

Some of my friends would do the same thing when they were getting tired of their girlfriends. I never banged any of their girls because it seemed a little too incestuous to me. Some of those girls, however, were fairly cool so I probably lost out on some good bangs by not doing it. All of this took place in Japan.

Post: #237

delete

Post: #238

Go for it, man.

Post: #239

Delete

Post: #240

Don't want to beat a dead horse here, but if I'm not mistaken, isn't one of the reasons why so many J-girls flake is because of their culture? Like I mentioned in another thread, I'm a amateur Japanophile (the wiki definition, not the urban dictionary, haha) and one of the things I've come across when looking up nanpa was the Confucianist mindset of the people there. Apparently, chance meetings have to happen by fate or something along those lines. Not to say that that's better than cold approaching, but maybe social circle game might the way to go?

FWIW, the author of Black Passenger: Yellow Cabs briefly discussed this in his book, saying that a large part of his success was through a "third-party" (i.e. English school, social events, parties, etc).

Post: #241

(05-07-2014 07:53 PM)Royale Wrote:  Don't want to beat a dead horse here, but if I'm not mistaken, isn't one of the reasons why so many J-girls flake is because of their culture? Like I mentioned in another thread, I'm a amateur Japanophile (the wiki definition, not the urban dictionary, haha) and one of the things I've come across when looking up nanpa was the Confucianist mindset of the people there. Apparently, chance meetings have to happen by fate or something along those lines. Not to say that that's better than cold approaching, but maybe social circle game might the way to go?

FWIW, the author of Black Passenger: Yellow Cabs briefly discussed this in his book, saying that a large part of his success was through a "third-party" (i.e. English school, social events, parties, etc).

Always what I though in reference to Japanese girls flaking by everyone on the thread. I think social circle is much stronger over there. The problem being thirsty Japanese males. Even in manga, the guy with the hot chick is hated on.

Post: #242

(05-07-2014 08:04 PM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 07:53 PM)Royale Wrote:  Don't want to beat a dead horse here, but if I'm not mistaken, isn't one of the reasons why so many J-girls flake is because of their culture? Like I mentioned in another thread, I'm a amateur Japanophile (the wiki definition, not the urban dictionary, haha) and one of the things I've come across when looking up nanpa was the Confucianist mindset of the people there. Apparently, chance meetings have to happen by fate or something along those lines. Not to say that that's better than cold approaching, but maybe social circle game might the way to go?

FWIW, the author of Black Passenger: Yellow Cabs briefly discussed this in his book, saying that a large part of his success was through a "third-party" (i.e. English school, social events, parties, etc).

Always what I though in reference to Japanese girls flaking by everyone on the thread. I think social circle is much stronger over there.

I have the Black Passenger book on my Kindle but I haven't started reading it yet. If social circle game really is the way to go, which based on my experience it is, I've been trying to figure out if there is a way to make J-girls you've just met feel like you are a part of their social circle. If there is such a way, however, I'm sure J-guy PUAs would have already figured it out and be using and talking about it.

Perhaps one way is to approach mixed groups and make friends with the dudes first? I don't have enough experience with that type of approaching to know if that's the way to go. I understand that guys who have tried to use that approach may have had problems with the dudes cockblocking them later when they turned their attention to the women.

Post: #243

delete

Post: #244

Also about the flaking, even geinoujins or famous people get flaked on by Japanese girls.

Just dont put any value on numbers, LINES, facebooks, etc, in j-land.

I found this video a long time ago, but anyway it talks about a famous comedian "irie" doing a nanpa challenge. His goal is to get as many numbers as he can in 2 hours. Interesting to watch how even a famous person gets shot down, his game sucks balls but he at least approaches. I don't advise running this type of game but his a celebrity so he can get away with it.

There are many examples especially ones evolving Fujimori a well known charai guy - there is video of him getting shot down.

Anyways irie gets shot down multiple times, but he does get quite a few numbers. This is not what typical nanpa dude usually say, although I have witness some really shitty and good street game in Tokyo before.

place: Shinjuku (near kabukichou red light district, Tokyo)
nanpa part starts around 21:30

Post: #245

Quote:I have the Black Passenger book on my Kindle but I haven't started reading it yet. If social circle game really is the way to go, which based on my experience it is, I've been trying to figure out if there is a way to make J-girls you've just met feel like you are a part of their social circle. If there is such a way, however, I'm sure J-guy PUAs would have already figured it out and be using and talking about it.

Perhaps one way is to approach mixed groups and make friends with the dudes first? I don't have enough experience with that type of approaching to know if that's the way to go. I understand that guys who have tried to use that approach may have had problems with the dudes cockblocking them later when they turned their attention to the women.

That might be the way to do it. I frequent this Japanese blog written by a foreigner and he interviews people whenever he goes out to different events. This particular post caught my eye:

BLOG: Check "The Cockblocker" Post

Quote:Blog Author: How can a small guy like you ruin it for the foreign pick up artists here?

J-guy: You're right. I'm small but I am Japanese. You are not and never will be. That means a lot. I've even ruined relationships with couple that I just met. Japanese women will always trust another Japanese over a foreigner, even if she has his children. How would you feel if some smelly Arabs or really dark skinned Africans came to your hometown beach looking to violate the local women while you just looked on, afraid to even speak to them? It's fucking emasculating. I decided to do something about it".

Now, I'm not saying this guy is the prime source of information, nor implying you guys are apart of some "pickup" community. But the fact is if there's a good portion guys over there who think like this, then you might have more than just a flaking problem.

Here's an interesting strategy that might work in this situation: Networking game.

Get everyone's contact info (guys too) and make it look like you're just some foreigner that's trying to meet as many people as you can. That way, their orbiter/tribalist hamster doesn't go haywire, instead thinking you're just some "friendly" or "nice" guy. Then just message the chicks from there, cloak and dagger. It might be against the whole alpha take-what-I-want mentality, but if you ain't getting squat doing what you're doing, then what's the point? Be water, my friends.

Post: #246

(05-07-2014 09:22 PM)Royale Wrote:  

Quote:Here's an interesting strategy that might work in this situation: Networking game.

Get everyone's contact info (guys too) and make it look like you're just some foreigner that's trying to meet as many people as you can. That way, their orbiter/tribalist hamster doesn't go haywire, instead thinking you're just some "friendly" or "nice" guy. Then just message the chicks from there, cloak and dagger. It might be against the whole alpha take-what-I-want mentality, but if you ain't getting squat doing what you're doing, then what's the point? Be water, my friends.

I followed Roosh's Day Bang almost to the exact letter upon arriving in Japan(except all in Japanese). And it significantly reduced flakes and got me tons of dates and eventually I got good enough to convert into lays. I don't want to sound like an advertisement but the first j-girl I banged in Japan from day game was a direct result of the ideas in that book. I think I wrote about it somewhere in these threads. The elderly opener + rambling + baiting works fine in Japan.

But i've also met people in Tokyo running crazy street game that went against anything I thought possible and they were also way better than me. Those Tokyo dudes have an unlimited supply of chances to hone their skills, you could go all day and night approaching if you wanted to. Just grab a beer at the conbini get buzzed and have at that shit.

Indirect suits me better. Pick a style, forge your own version, learn from people better than you, and flakes will become less of an issue.

Post: #247

One thing I've noticed is that there is little difference between indirectness and directness in terms of flakiness and radiosilence. I used to think girls I approached directly had a higher chance of flaking, but it's about the same: in both cases, they flake or radiosilence you almost all the time. Nowadays I've been going direct almost all the time. I hate being indirect, though maybe I should reconsider and use a mixture of both...

Post: #248

(05-07-2014 09:43 PM)memcpy Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 09:22 PM)Royale Wrote:  

Quote:Here's an interesting strategy that might work in this situation: Networking game.

Get everyone's contact info (guys too) and make it look like you're just some foreigner that's trying to meet as many people as you can. That way, their orbiter/tribalist hamster doesn't go haywire, instead thinking you're just some "friendly" or "nice" guy. Then just message the chicks from there, cloak and dagger. It might be against the whole alpha take-what-I-want mentality, but if you ain't getting squat doing what you're doing, then what's the point? Be water, my friends.

The elderly opener + rambling + baiting works fine in Japan.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this earlier, but I remember watching a show on Japanese TV about 10 years ago hosted by the manzai duo London Boots Ichi-gō Ni-gō. In the show, they would test willing dudes' girlfriends. The dude would arrange to meet his girlfriend in the early evening somewhere- usually Shibuya, then call her at the meeting time and say that he couldn't make it. At that moment, London Boots would have a professional host/nanpa artist who was waiting nearby swoop in and try to pick the girl up. They were able to get the girl to accompany him to a bar or restaurant about 90% of the time. Of course, they might have just not shown all the times the guy struck out which made it look like they were more successful than they really were.

After taking the girl to the bar, the guy would invite her to his nearby apartment. Waiting at the apartment, unbeknownst to her of course, were the girl's boyfriend and one of the London Boots dudes (as well as a camera crew). The pro would make a big entrance and the camera would zoom in to see if the girl was with him or not. About 50% of the time, the girl would be with him. If so, the camera would then zoom in on her boyfriend's face as his heart broke in half.

Anyway, I understood much less Japanese then, but if I understood right the nanpa guy would usually use something like the elderly opener/rambling/baiting approach on each girl. It was interesting how smooth, confident, and comfortable they were with their approaches.

Post: #249

(05-06-2014 05:49 AM)Sargon of Akkad Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 03:31 AM)Fortitudinal Wrote:  See, I had the opposite experience.In Canada J-girl agrees to date, and she will be there rain or shine.

Were these actually women from Japan (i.e. raised there) or were they just Canadian women of Japanese descent?

Born and bred j girls, of varying levels of English. So it's been very interesting to see what difference location makes.
My theory is that those that go abroad are outliers to begin with, therefore more open to gaijin dick. Within Japan I think there might be a slight fear of 'hotdog down a hallway' after being with a gaijin...

I've come to realize that Nature, in it's infinite wisdom makes J girls attracted to j guys and thank god for them, else I don't see how they would perpetuate the species

Post: #250

[/quote]

That might be the way to do it. I frequent this Japanese blog written by a foreigner and he interviews people whenever he goes out to different events. This particular post caught my eye:

BLOG: Check "The Cockblocker" Post

Quote:Blog Author: How can a small guy like you ruin it for the foreign pick up artists here?

J-guy: You're right. I'm small but I am Japanese. You are not and never will be. That means a lot. I've even ruined relationships with couple that I just met. Japanese women will always trust another Japanese over a foreigner, even if she has his children. How would you feel if some smelly Arabs or really dark skinned Africans came to your hometown beach looking to violate the local women while you just looked on, afraid to even speak to them? It's fucking emasculating. I decided to do something about it".

Now, I'm not saying this guy is the prime source of information, nor implying you guys are apart of some "pickup" community. But the fact is if there's a good portion guys over there who think like this, then you might have more than just a flaking problem.

Here's an interesting strategy that might work in this situation: Networking game.

Get everyone's contact info (guys too) and make it look like you're just some foreigner that's trying to meet as many people as you can. That way, their orbiter/tribalist hamster doesn't go haywire, instead thinking you're just some "friendly" or "nice" guy. Then just message the chicks from there, cloak and dagger. It might be against the whole alpha take-what-I-want mentality, but if you ain't getting squat doing what you're doing, then what's the point? Be water, my friends.
[/quote] [/quote]

Even with networking game I've noticed flakiness. It's really interesting.

As far as the clockblocking levels it is worrisome, and I have never quite had an honest conversation like that with the locals, but I could see how it's true. Nationalism is rampant and idiotic. Like the whole 'you'd understand japan better if ya have Japanese blood' LOL.

In nightclubs I've had guys buy me drinks to see if they can get me drunk and get rid of me that way (ha!). I've had guys straight up push me out of the way, or just try to jam themselves between the girl and me. Or clown me in some way. Childish games. They are lucky I don't understand much of what is said, cuz I'd put them in place.
So I play it ice cool, smile and that seems to piss them off, ha haha. probably doesn't help that I am terrible at remembering dudes faces.

Skotch can probably shed more light on this gray area.