Post: #26

(02-12-2014 07:48 AM)j r Wrote:  I read the WSJ article; that's why I know the numbers. When you're dealing with 3,000 people out of a population of 300,000,000, talking about trends is highly spurious. It could be the beginning of a trend. Or it could be a temporary uptick because of FATCA implementation.

I agree it could only be called the beginning of a trend at the moment. However, FATCAt could be the catalyst that sets it off. Most Americans I've met over the past few years are completely unaware of their international tax obligations. If their banks start to tell them, things could change quickly. In any case the numbers won't really hit until 5-10 years after FATCA, because it takes that long to realise a plan for another citizenship.

Any ideas on why the numbers were so low in 2006-'09 and 2012?

Post: #27

(02-12-2014 07:48 AM)j r Wrote:  

(02-11-2014 09:52 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(02-11-2014 08:09 AM)j r Wrote:  It is a little early to start talking about trends when you have a sample size of 3000. If one person fell in the bathtub and broke his neck last year, but three people did it this year, that's 300 percent increase. Does it tell us anything meaningful about bathtub safety?

If you had simply clicked on the link in post three, you would have seen that there is no doubt that it is an extremely strong trend.

In fact, that trend is so strong that it is on a parabolic curve!

I read the WSJ article; that's why I know the numbers. When you're dealing with 3,000 people out of a population of 300,000,000, talking about trends is highly spurious. It could be the beginning of a trend. Or it could be a temporary uptick because of FATCA implementation.

That is an utterly spurious argument. Each year, about 800 children die in pools, about 200 children die from gun shots, and about 25,000 people die in auto crashes. I could provide 100 other examples. Trends from such numbers are analyzed and discussed all the time without examining the total population.

If you dispute such an obvious concept, please offer a scientific reason from a respected source rather than simply bloviating.

Post: #28

""Women are more materialistic then men, overwhelmingly so IMO, and teaching english is a career that often puts teachers in developing countries with often poor pay, along with living in conditons that almost always were not as high as back in the UK/US."
Actually they DNA isn't wired that way w....but they are brainwashed by the media more and the media has brainwashed them that materialistic consumption is today what having a strong warrior husband for safety and safety to offspring was centuries ago.

As for teaching overseas...I don't think ESL teachers are going to drop citizenship. Most I know do it for a few years and return.These articles are silly because as far as we know the majority of the 3000 were immigrants who decided to go back home.
Some regions it really isn't good for pussy either..FSU for example. Teachers of English are usually not in good financial shape and FSU women want money. Also Western women have few options because not only don't local men want them but they usually don't want EE men. The caveman non feminist poor hygienically EE guy is kind of a turn off for them.We use to have "mid night runs"
from western women who couldn't stand FSU. men liked it better..but after months/years most western guys also tend to run away for HEALTH issues lol.

Post: #29

(02-12-2014 08:55 AM)DaveR Wrote:  Any ideas on why the numbers were so low in 2006-'09 and 2012?

I suspect that it stems from the inept way in which bureaucrats compiled the numbers from various U.S. embassies around the world each year.

Many people who have renounced their citizenship have remarked that their names have not appeared in the federal register. I suspect that the actual number of U.S. citizens who have renounced is far larger than reported by the USG.

Post: #30

Taxation of US citizens overseas doesn't apply to 99.9 % people who read this board. The other 0.1% will be fine as they are smart enough to know how to hide their income from uncle Sam. What do you have to make over 250K USD to even begin to worry that you have to file taxes on foreign income?
Not having an extra passport when you need one is much worse.

Post: #31

(02-12-2014 01:30 PM)Wayout Wrote:  Taxation of US citizens overseas doesn't apply to 99.9 % people who read this board. The other 0.1% will be fine as they are smart enough to know how to hide their income from uncle Sam. What do you have to make over 250K USD to even begin to worry that you have to file taxes on foreign income?
Not having an extra passport when you need one is much worse.

The exclusion for foreign income only applies up to about $95,000.

The exclusion does not apply at all to interest or dividend income.

Post: #32

(02-12-2014 01:36 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(02-12-2014 01:30 PM)Wayout Wrote:  Taxation of US citizens overseas doesn't apply to 99.9 % people who read this board. The other 0.1% will be fine as they are smart enough to know how to hide their income from uncle Sam. What do you have to make over 250K USD to even begin to worry that you have to file taxes on foreign income?
Not having an extra passport when you need one is much worse.

The exclusion for foreign income only applies up to about $95,000.

The exclusion does not apply at all to interest or dividend income.

Exactly that's why most expats living overseas aren't effected..they make to low.
The taxation on interest income is actually why for some renouncing citizenship is viable option. Rich people who get interest, dividends come to mind. Plus of course they make more than the exclusion limits.
Tip:if your going overseas for a while..make sure if your from a state that taxes income to make it understood you are not a resident of the state for that tax year.

Post: #33

(02-12-2014 02:29 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  Tip:if your going overseas for a while..make sure if your from a state that taxes income to make it understood you are not a resident of the state for that tax year.

I agree. That is a huge mistake that most future expats fail to consider.

Post: #34

So let's say I open an account in Russia and deposit 100K with 10% dividend interest - how would uncle Sam find out about it? What about if I have job in Russia or any country for that matter - how would they know?

Post: #35

(02-12-2014 03:39 PM)Wayout Wrote:  So let's say I open an account in Russia and deposit 100K with 10% dividend interest - how would uncle Sam find out about it? What about if I have job in Russia or any country for that matter - how would they know?

A few ways:
- the IRS has access to all SWIFT transaction data, so if you wired the money in, they would see it
- same thing for wiring the money out
- banks in any country that has agreed to FATCAt will report your account details and balances... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Acc...liance_Act
- the FSB is an extremely corrupt organisation and I wouldn't doubt that they sell data to the IRS

Post: #36

Also, this: http://rbth.co.uk/business/2013/06/17/ru...27161.html

Post: #37

(02-12-2014 03:45 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(02-12-2014 03:39 PM)Wayout Wrote:  So let's say I open an account in Russia and deposit 100K with 10% dividend interest - how would uncle Sam find out about it? What about if I have job in Russia or any country for that matter - how would they know?

A few ways:
- the IRS has access to all SWIFT transaction data, so if you wired the money in, they would see it
- same thing for wiring the money out
- banks in any country that has agreed to FATCAt will report your account details and balances... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Acc...liance_Act
- the FSB is an extremely corrupt organisation and I wouldn't doubt that they sell data to the IRS

Thanks! Good to know! No wiring money from on and no accounts in FATCA countries!
I see why governments are scared of digital currencies like BTC.

Post: #38

(02-12-2014 03:55 PM)Wayout Wrote:  

(02-12-2014 03:45 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(02-12-2014 03:39 PM)Wayout Wrote:  So let's say I open an account in Russia and deposit 100K with 10% dividend interest - how would uncle Sam find out about it? What about if I have job in Russia or any country for that matter - how would they know?

A few ways:
- the IRS has access to all SWIFT transaction data, so if you wired the money in, they would see it
- same thing for wiring the money out
- banks in any country that has agreed to FATCAt will report your account details and balances... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Acc...liance_Act
- the FSB is an extremely corrupt organisation and I wouldn't doubt that they sell data to the IRS

Thanks! Good to know! No wiring money from on and no accounts in FATCA countries!
I see why governments are scared of digital currencies like BTC.

FATCA applies to every nation on the planet. The only issue is whether all nations will comply with it.

The giant stick that the U.S. uses to enforce FATCA is that non-compliant nations will lose access to the U.S. financial system, which most nations cannot survive without. For example, any international financial transactions that involve U.S. dollars must use the SWIFT system. That is exactly why Switzerland complied. It is basically blackmail by the USG.

The international breadth of FATCA and the exercise of extra-territorial jurisdiction against other nations is simply breathtaking. The USG has become an international thug in many respects, which is why I want out.

Post: #39

(02-12-2014 04:15 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  The international breadth of FATCA and the exercise of extra-territorial jurisdiction against other nations is simply breathtaking. The USG has become an international thug in many respects, which is why I want out.

Absolutely; the gall that it takes to say "well you and the money you earned is outside our borders and jurisdiction...but you have to give us our cut anyway because we said so" is truly incredible. It's an unjust law by even medieval standards.

Post: #40

I forgot to add... if you're hiding, you'll need to avoid using any cards with the following logos on them: Visa, Mastercard, Maestro, VPay, Diners, American Express...

Post: #41

I predict that in the coming years, we will definitely be seeing some downstream consequences due to the recent uptick in Manosphere awareness and Red Pill conversion. Not enough by far to be significant on a larger scale, but it will certainly register.

Take my own trajectory as an example. In 2011, I first became a serious (but silent) follower of Manosphere writings, and in early 2012, I made the decision to expat. But despite having pulled out all the stops, it wasn't until late 2013 that I was finally able to buy that one-way plane ticket out, and it will probably take until late 2014 or early 2015 for all the residency paperwork to come through.

So as for the men who, having got on board during the ascendance of the Manosphere in 2013, are now finally waking the fuck up and getting their move on, we might be seeing the first part of that wave ready to make the actual great leap forward round about 2016.

Of course, if you just sit around and talk about it, it isn't going to happen. Speaking from my own experience, it really takes a serious, long-term commitment. Once you have done it, though, you've proven to yourself that you had both the cojones and the capability to actually execute on a plan like that. And that knowledge is something nobody can ever take away from you.

Post: #42

(02-12-2014 01:36 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(02-12-2014 01:30 PM)Wayout Wrote:  Taxation of US citizens overseas doesn't apply to 99.9 % people who read this board. The other 0.1% will be fine as they are smart enough to know how to hide their income from uncle Sam. What do you have to make over 250K USD to even begin to worry that you have to file taxes on foreign income?
Not having an extra passport when you need one is much worse.

The exclusion for foreign income only applies up to about $95,000.

The exclusion does not apply at all to interest or dividend income.

Yes, but the tax treaty applies to all income if you're in a country where the US has a tax treaty (i.e. most of them).

The income tax exclusion is just a bonus. Even if that were left out, and any money earned while living abroad and you get a credit on your US taxes, for taxes paid abroad on that.

In short, your tax burden is equal to the tax burden in the higher of the two countries (the US and the country you live in). I have a friend who lives abroad and made 6-figures in dividend income, and he paid $0 in US taxes. The reason is that he got a credit for taxes paid in the country where he lived, and they had a higher tax rate than the US dividend (capital gains) tax.

So for all this talk of US taxation, in reality it only becomes an issue if the country you move to has a lower tax rate than the US.

Post: #43

(02-12-2014 09:21 PM)paninaro Wrote:  So for all this talk of US taxation, in reality it only becomes an issue if the country you move to has a lower tax rate than the US.

So, that would be Russia and all of Asia except for Japan. Those countries happen to be the ones where most of the growth is coming from at the moment.

Post: #44

(02-12-2014 09:21 PM)paninaro Wrote:  The income tax exclusion is just a bonus. Even if that were left out, and any money earned while living abroad and you get a credit on your US taxes, for taxes paid abroad on that.

For many men looking to leave the US, often the simplest situation from a tax perspective is to continue to draw exclusively US-sourced income but establish residency in an offshore jurisdiction with territorial taxation. In other words, you just file your US return and pay taxes on your US income stream, which is considered foreign sourced income in your country of residency.

Careful tax planning is always a must for any US citizen wanting to live abroad. It goes without saying that before you make the move, you need to make extra sure that you have a solid grasp of the tax implications and understand the additional filing requirements that you will need to comply with to stay in the clear. If you aren't smart enough, informed enough, organized enough or motivated enough to be able to do that, you probably have other fish to fry and aren't quite ready to leave yet.

For American men, although everybody's situation is different, potential tax benefits are usually not the main reasons to want to living abroad. I, for one, have other reasons for doing it, and if having to continue to file and pay US taxes be the price for being able to live the lifestyle that I live, I feel it's an acceptable price to pay.

Post: #45

(02-13-2014 01:40 AM)DaveR Wrote:  

(02-12-2014 09:21 PM)paninaro Wrote:  So for all this talk of US taxation, in reality it only becomes an issue if the country you move to has a lower tax rate than the US.

So, that would be Russia and all of Asia except for Japan. Those countries happen to be the ones where most of the growth is coming from at the moment.

Middle East too. Think Switzerland even has lower personal income taxes than the US.

It's a big issue for those of us who made decent money away from 'murica. Depending on the 'housing allowance' it can be as little as the exemption which is ~ $97K now I think. It sucks and is completely ridiculous that I was taxed on my Ruble earnings in Russia while not living in the US.

Again, the fact that almost no other developed country, and few countries globally, tax their citizens abroad means the US is once again a BIG outlier (and bit of a 'rogue' state IMO). But hell we incarcerate people for stuff like soft drug crimes, false date rape, not paying alimony & drinking a beer on sidewalk, so trying to put any sort of friendly face onto the US government's increasingly paranoid and autocratic behavior these days doesn't hold water IMO. For Chrissake the Department of Education has a SWAT team now such is the state of our militarized country!

http://www.heritage.org/research/comment...-swat-team

Post: #46

(02-11-2014 09:46 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(02-11-2014 06:52 AM)spalex Wrote:  I don't understand why you need to renounce your citizenship.

Are you not allowed to have dual citizenship if one of them is US citizenship?

Even if that is the case, why do you need to become a citizen of another country? What are the benefits?
If you have a residency permit, you are fine.
The only thing I can think of is so you can go on welfare. Or to make it a lot harder for them to deport you.

The U.S. is one of a few nations on the planet that taxes its citizens' worldwide income even if you are not a U.S. resident, which is downright primitive. There is no way to avoid that legal requirement to pay income tax on worldwide income unless you renounce your U.S. citizenship.

Not completely true. I moved from New Orleans to Ontario on a student visa ten years ago. I never filed a US tax return and they did not come after me. In 2010 (maybe 2011) the IRS stared making demands that the canadian tax revenue people snitch on americans in canada. Canada told them to go pound sand (there's an article on this at WSJ but I don't have it atm).

Now if youre donald Trump, then yeah, maybe I can see them doing something. But then I'm not Donald Trump.

If the Canadian govt won't turn over people here, you really think they will if you're in Brazil, Thailand or Japan?

And its the same with student loans. The Dept of Education recommends against going after student loans abroad for collection purposes.

At least until World Govt comes along, in which case all of us will be fucked unless we all want to live like Jeremiah Johnson.

Post: #47

Quote:

(02-14-2014 11:09 PM)Soothesayer Wrote:  There is no way to avoid that legal requirement to pay income tax on worldwide income unless you renounce your U.S. citizenship.

Not completely true. I moved from New Orleans to Ontario on a student visa ten years ago. I never filed a US tax return and they did not come after me.

Well, of course you can avoid the requirement by avoiding the requirement. But that doesn't change the fact that you are (probably) still required to file a return.

It is very unlikely that the IRS will try to come after you while you are living abroad in a country like Canada with higher taxes than in the US, since they know that auditing you would be a waste of effort, because in all probability, the result of an audit would be that you owe them nothing.

But IMO it is still worth keeping current with your US filing obligations, since you never know what the future might bring. For example, if you should ever move back to the US, they might start digging around. Be aware that the statutes of limitation on assessment of tax and on collection of such assessments do not begin to run until you file your return.

Say you return to the US after having lived abroad for 20 years, during which time you never filed a US return. Then the IRS audits you and decide that they want to see documentation for the income that you earned 20 years ago. Remember, they can do that if they want to, because no statute of limitation. You don't have the documentation anymore because it was too long ago. So then they just pull some number out of their ass and impute that income to you, tax you on it, and for good measure, top it off with 20 years worth of cumulative interest on the unpaid tax.

Think it can't happen to you? It could. Will it? Most likely not.

But honestly, once you know the ropes, it's usually not that much work to just keep filing those bitches every year. I spend about 4 hours on it. The peace of mind- knowing that I would be in the clear if I were to ever to have return to the US- is bliss.

Post: #48

(02-14-2014 11:09 PM)Soothesayer Wrote:  

(02-11-2014 09:46 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(02-11-2014 06:52 AM)spalex Wrote:  I don't understand why you need to renounce your citizenship.

Are you not allowed to have dual citizenship if one of them is US citizenship?

Even if that is the case, why do you need to become a citizen of another country? What are the benefits?
If you have a residency permit, you are fine.
The only thing I can think of is so you can go on welfare. Or to make it a lot harder for them to deport you.

The U.S. is one of a few nations on the planet that taxes its citizens' worldwide income even if you are not a U.S. resident, which is downright primitive. There is no way to avoid that legal requirement to pay income tax on worldwide income unless you renounce your U.S. citizenship.

Not completely true. I moved from New Orleans to Ontario on a student visa ten years ago. I never filed a US tax return and they did not come after me. In 2010 (maybe 2011) the IRS stared making demands that the canadian tax revenue people snitch on americans in canada. Canada told them to go pound sand (there's an article on this at WSJ but I don't have it atm).

Now if youre donald Trump, then yeah, maybe I can see them doing something. But then I'm not Donald Trump.

If the Canadian govt won't turn over people here, you really think they will if you're in Brazil, Thailand or Japan?

And its the same with student loans. The Dept of Education recommends against going after student loans abroad for collection purposes.

At least until World Govt comes along, in which case all of us will be fucked unless we all want to live like Jeremiah Johnson.

Not completely true? It is completely true. If you are a U.S. citizen, you have a legal requirement to pay income tax on your worldwide income unless you renounce your U.S. citizenship or fall within the scope of an exemption or a tax treaty.

Whether or not you comply with that "legal requirement" is another matter. Further, if your level of income does fall within the foreign earned income exclusion you must file your tax forms with the IRS each year -- or you forfeit your right to it.

While I understand your point, evading that legal requirement is an entirely different matter than your legal obligation to an increasingly autocratic state that is rapidly running out of funds and scratching and clawing for every penny on which it can lay its greedy hands.

Post: #49

Just learned about FATCA. What an overreaching liberal money grab. Had to be Reid's idea. Still won't make a dent in the national debt nor will it force those rich cats to cough it up, and let's face it: if they don't want their money to be found, then it won't be found. Not the smart ones, anyway and I can't say I blame em. If they don't live here then they shouldn't have to pay.

The other thing is the Canadian Charter. FATCA violates article 15: no citizen or permanent resident shall be discriminated against based on national origin. A bank showing preference to a Canadian born in Toronto over one born in Houston, TX is not going to fly. I was surprised Harper thought we wouldn't notice this in the budget bill. Now let's see if the Supreme Court of Canada can be bought out the way USSC was on Obamacare. Hopefully they value the Charter, but we'll see.

As far as the rest, I haven't filed US taxes for 13 years and have no plan to do so. Ever. Obama and every other scum-sucking liberal can go jump off a cliff, preferably while a raging fire burns below.

Post: #50

You know for all the American men moving away I'll bet there's more foreign men emigrating here. It's still the best place to make some money especially if you're from a dirt poor country.