Post: #76

(02-03-2014 12:11 AM)Sugar Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 12:09 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(02-02-2014 11:50 PM)Sugar Wrote:  Fact is if Montana, Staubach and Unitas were taking turns QBing for Denver they still would have lost, and if ANYONE were QBing for Seattle they still would have won.

Still underrating Russell Wilson, I see.

Haters gonna hate.

Lol I knew it wouldn't be long before Russell Wilson's agent chimed in.

I haven't looked back on this entire thread, but I'm guessing there will be a lot more evidence of you sucking his dick than there will be of me hating him.

You should head for bed... in the morning the loss will be much less painful.

Post: #77

(02-03-2014 12:11 AM)Sugar Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 12:09 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(02-02-2014 11:50 PM)Sugar Wrote:  Fact is if Montana, Staubach and Unitas were taking turns QBing for Denver they still would have lost, and if ANYONE were QBing for Seattle they still would have won.

Still underrating Russell Wilson, I see.

Haters gonna hate.

Lol I knew it wouldn't be long before Russell Wilson's agent chimed in.

I haven't looked back on this entire thread, but I'm guessing there will be a lot more evidence of you sucking his dick than there will be of me hating him.

Seattle was without nearly their entire offensive line during the middle portion of the season. Wilson had to make play after play using his legs, throwing on the run and running for first downs. He willed his team to wins on his very own. Without that, they don't get the first round bye and maybe the playoffs. And there's just no chance this team wins this championship with your run of the mill pocket passer. Wilson's dynamic ability paired with his leadership intangibles make him as special a player as there is in the league.

Post: #78

(02-03-2014 12:28 AM)Jaydublin Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 12:11 AM)Sugar Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 12:09 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(02-02-2014 11:50 PM)Sugar Wrote:  Fact is if Montana, Staubach and Unitas were taking turns QBing for Denver they still would have lost, and if ANYONE were QBing for Seattle they still would have won.

Still underrating Russell Wilson, I see.

Haters gonna hate.

Lol I knew it wouldn't be long before Russell Wilson's agent chimed in.

I haven't looked back on this entire thread, but I'm guessing there will be a lot more evidence of you sucking his dick than there will be of me hating him.

You should head for bed... in the morning the loss will be much less painful.

? I hate Denver. But always trying to be objective when evaluating players.

Post: #79

(02-03-2014 12:27 AM)BadgerHut Wrote:  

(02-02-2014 11:50 PM)Sugar Wrote:  This is a day Manning haters have been jerking themselves off about for years. In New England states tonight, it must feel like THEY won the Super Bowl. They can't even give the guy credit for winning a Super Bowl, it's always, "the Bears were awful, etc."

Fact is if Montana, Staubach and Unitas were taking turns QBing for Denver they still would have lost, and if ANYONE were QBing for Seattle they still would have won.

Sure. I don't feel the need to kick Manning any more than the Seahawks just did, but I was hoping the "greatest QB ever" would have found a way to move the ball against a good defense. Do we not expect great players to perform even against great challenges? That's what makes them great, I'm told. The magnitude of the difference between the record-setting regular season and total Super Bowl annihilation just further underscores the "great stats, lousy playoffs" meme.

True...though Brady also was not very great in the last round...

Post: #80

(02-03-2014 12:30 AM)IQVX Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 12:11 AM)Sugar Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 12:09 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(02-02-2014 11:50 PM)Sugar Wrote:  Fact is if Montana, Staubach and Unitas were taking turns QBing for Denver they still would have lost, and if ANYONE were QBing for Seattle they still would have won.

Still underrating Russell Wilson, I see.

Haters gonna hate.

Lol I knew it wouldn't be long before Russell Wilson's agent chimed in.

I haven't looked back on this entire thread, but I'm guessing there will be a lot more evidence of you sucking his dick than there will be of me hating him.

Seattle was without nearly their entire offensive line during the middle portion of the season. Wilson had to make play after play using his legs, throwing on the run and running for first downs. He willed his team to wins on his very own. Without that, they don't get the first round bye and maybe the playoffs. And there's just no chance this team wins this championship with your run of the mill pocket passer. Wilson's dynamic ability paired with his leadership intangibles make him as special a player as there is in the league.

Not to mention Wilson was without Sidney Rice for all & Percy Harvin for most of the season too.

I think any QB in the AFC would've been killed by the Hawks defense tonight. Seattle was a couple of offensive holding calls away & shortcomings in the red zone from making this game an even bigger blowout.

Post: #81

Didn't think it would be as bad as it was... oh well, at least baseball is starting up soon.

Post: #82

Wilson is a pretty great and still very young QB. He was fantastic at UW and has done a stellar job this year.

Post: #83

Post: #84

Somebody please shoot Chris Berman.

Post: #85

(02-02-2014 09:18 PM)Mentavious Wrote:  No wonder Colorado legalized weed

Oh yeh...Floyd put down 10.4 million on the Broncos.

I can't believe that..has he really made that much during his career?

You don't know much about boxing, we can tell.

Floyd money mayweather makes like 80 mil a fight.

He keeps 100 mil in his checking account... 10 mill is like betting 100 for us normal people

Post: #86

Floyd broke even this year so far. He won a bunch of money on the Rose Bowl.

Post: #87

(02-03-2014 12:11 AM)Sugar Wrote:  Lol I knew it wouldn't be long before Russell Wilson's agent chimed in.

I haven't looked back on this entire thread, but I'm guessing there will be a lot more evidence of you sucking his dick than there will be of me hating him.

The evidence of you severely underrating Russell Wilson would be overwhelmingly more common than anything else you could search for.

Stay hatin', bro.

Post: #88

Anyone playing QB for Seattle would've won the game. It was once again their defense that led them to victory. Wilson is a decent game manager who plays within his means and limited upside and basically manages not to screw up, which is what he did tonight. When you have an elite defense and running game, it helps hide your deficiencies and makes your job much easier. Wilson and the Seattle offense had almost nothing to do when the score was 29-0 after Harvin's return and the game was essentially over. Heck, it was over after that safety, more or less.

Post: #89

(02-03-2014 02:31 AM)DWF Wrote:  Anyone playing QB for Seattle would've won the game.

Word? Any QB with such an elite defense would've won the game?

Because the top defense in the league manages Super Bowl victories every year, right? Elite defenses always manage to make it to the big game, right?

Quote:It was once again their defense that led them to victory. Wilson is a decent game manager who plays within his means and limited upside and basically manages not to screw up, which is what he did tonight.

Game managers don't win championships.

Quote:When you have an elite defense and running game, it helps hide your deficiencies and makes your job much easier.

Lynch had 39 yards on 15 carries tonight. Turbin was 9 for 25. Harvin had one big run.

There was no elite running game for Wilson to lean on tonight. Denver shut that down and forced Wilson into a number of long 3rd down situations in which he had no choice but to step up and make a play with his arm. He did that and he did it well, repeatedly. That's where most (29) of Seattle's points tonight came from. Wilson's decision making and precision were as crucial to tonight's win as the other aspects of Seattle's game, and they were good enough to totally make up for the unusually ineffective ground effort the Hawks mustered today. Seattle would not have won without it (they wouldn't have gotten any points).

You can't count on a game manager to consistently bail you out when your running game isn't working and you're consistently facing 3rd and long. Wilson has consistently made big plays in pressure situations during this year's regular and post-season with his arm and his legs, and that's why the Hawks got as far as they did.

Many of Wilson's critics wanted to see what he would do without Lynch to "lean on" as they claim he always does. There have been multiple games in which he's more than carried the team with his arm and legs, but this was just another example. Wilson had no running game, but kept driving for points anyway with accurate passes in crucial situations and ZERO turnovers.

I'm just wondering how many rings Wilson is going to have to get before people begin to just give him credit for how good he is. I'm guessing 2 might do it.

Post: #90

Floyd is saying he never actually bet big money on the SB.

http://instagram.com/p/j8CJqfx3VK/

Post: #91

His numbers were okay, but they all came in garbage time. The first half he didn't do anything. By half time the Seahawks had pretty much won due to the defense being so incredible. Then once Harvin had the KR to open the half it was over. The whole defense was the MVP of the game.

Have you heard of Trent Dilfer? Another game manager who won the SB with a team (Baltimore) that had an elite defense. Also, Brad Johnson won a SB with Tampa in 2003. How did he do it? Yep, another elite defense.

So, this is now the third time in the 2000s that a game manager has won a SB with the help of an elite defense. In each case, the games were blowouts precisely because the defense was completely dominating. Therefore, your statement that game managers don't win championships is obviously incorrect.

Post: #92

This was brought up during the telecast as well and my thoughts now are the same as then: Why is the term "Game Manager" considered derisive when associated with Wilson?

It seems that Manning and Brady's core competencies seem to be "game managing" as well--neither of them appear to be exceptional gunslingers nor athletes, relatively speaking--both of their decision-making abilities, especially Manning's tactics and Brady's aplomb under duress.

Post: #93

Wilson didn't look like a game manager with all the roll outs, lazer throws and runs for yardage he had...

Did he throw for 400 yards? No.

He didn't need to.

Post: #94

Well, he can't throw for 400 yards. The coaching staff limits his attempts to about 25 a game, because they know his limitations, as well as the team's strengths. It's a great move by the front office and the coaches to build a solid team around defense and the running game, and have a reliable, mildly above average QB manage it all by playing within his means and let the defense win the games.

Post: #95

(02-03-2014 03:09 AM)DWF Wrote:  His numbers were okay, but they all came in garbage time. The first half he didn't do anything.

You just said his numbers were okay. He had 206 total passing yards. Just under half of these (94) came in the first half. The Seahawks offense accounted for a total of 29 points on the night. 15 of these (just over half) came in the first half.

During the first half, Wilson compiled nearly half of his passing total for the night and led his offense to compile the slight majority of the points they would account for in this game. That isn't "nothing".

Also, when exactly is "garbage time"? By my estimation, the game wasn't clearly out of reach until the end of the third quarter, and it was Wilson's first TD pass that put it there. Most of Wilson's yards came when the game was very much in contention.

Quote:The whole defense was the MVP of the game.

I would have given it to Harvin.

Quote:Have you heard of Trent Dilfer? Another game manager who won the SB with a team (Baltimore) that had an elite defense. Also, Brad Johnson won a SB with Tampa in 2003. How did he do it? Yep, another elite defense.

So, this is now the third time in the 2000s that a game manager has won a SB with the help of an elite defense. In each case, the games were blowouts precisely because the defense was completely dominating. Therefore, your statement that game managers don't win championships is obviously incorrect.

If those are your best "game manager" examples, then you've just proven my point: Russell Wilson is not a game manager. He is vastly superior to Trent Dilfer, who was, at his best, a serviceable starter who struggled to manage a positive TD:INT ratio and never managed a completion percentage over 60%:

http://www.nfl.com/player/trentdilfer/2500392/profile

Brad Johnson was not a game manager. In his SB winning season, he was top 10 in passing yards per game, ahead of McNair, Favre, McNabb and about a yard behind Brady. His yards per attempt were in the top half of the league, ahead of both Favre and Brady. His Air Yards per attempts were in the top 5. The Bucs did not merely expect Johnson to dink and dunk short, easy passes and scrape by a few wins. He was asked to throw the ball down the field and challenge defenses, and did so at a rate greater than the majority of QBs in the game that year. That team asked him to do as much with his arm as just about any other team in the league asked of their QB.

Trent Dilfer is what you can call a true game manager, and his stats bare that out. He could only just barely manage a positive TD-Turnover ratio, and his yards per game in his SB winning season (136.5 y/g) are FAR below the figures for either Johnson (234.5 y/g) or Wilson (209 y/g). His attempts per game (20) are also below the equivalent figures for both Johnson (34) and Wilson (25).

In examining both Wilson and Johnson's SB winning seasons, you will notice that both were top 10 in the league in air yards per attempt (that is to say, the average distance their passes traveled in the air before getting to the receiver). This statistic is useful: it can tell us which QBs are being asked to take chances down field and really test defences with their arms, and which QBs are simply being asked to dink and dunk their way to victory with short, easy throws that never really ask them to test a defence.
In Dilfer's SB winning season, he was 26th in Air Yards/attempt. Wilson was 6th this year and Johnson was 5th in 2002. Combine this with the fact that each of those QBs had a substantially higher number of attempts and yards per game and you can conclude that both were asked to do much more with their arms than Dilfer was. They're in a different league.

Dilfer statistically did the bare minimum needed to win and was unable to truly carry his offense. The Ravens, fortunately, never asked him to do so, and that is evidenced by his relatively low y/g, attempts/g and air yards/attempt, in addition to his high turnover rate and low TD%.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/ye...assing.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/ye...assing.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/ye...assing.htm

Brad Johnson is not in that league and neither is Russell Wilson. Those two QBs are not statistically comparable to Trent Dilfer, who is the only true game manager mentioned in this thread.

TL;DR: You're right, game managers can win Super Bowls. Brad Johnson and Russell Wilson provide no evidence of this. Trent Dilfer does.

Post: #96

(02-03-2014 04:10 AM)DWF Wrote:  Well, he can't throw for 400 yards. The coaching staff limits his attempts to about 25 a game, because they know his limitations, as well as the team's strengths.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...090crd.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...280det.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...020chi.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...250mia.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...080car.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...060clt.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...130sea.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...020sea.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...130atl.htm

The coaching staff is not limiting Wilson to 25 attempts per game because of his "limitations". He simply throws the ball as often as he needs to throw it. Given the effectiveness of both Wilson and Lynch in the running game (Wilson takes off more than the typical QB does), the strength of the Seahawks defense and the efficiency of Russell's passing (high TD%, low turnover rate, excellent general decision making maximizing the effectiveness of each individual pass) it just so happens that they often do not need to throw the ball more than 25 times per game.

Quote:It's a great move by the front office and the coaches to build a solid team around defense and the running game, and have a reliable, mildly above average QB manage it all by playing within his means and let the defense win the games.

-2012 Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Year
-Most passing touchdowns in a season by a rookie (26, tied with Peyton Manning)
-6th rookie quarterback in NFL history to win a playoff game
-2nd most total touchdowns for a rookie quarterback (30)
-2nd highest passer rating for a rookie quarterback (100.0)
-2× Pro Bowl (2012, 2013)
-Most passing yards in a playoff game by a rookie (385 yards)[81]
-Most wins by a quarterback in his first two NFL seasons (24)
-Super Bowl Champion in his second season

Andy Dalton is "mildly above average". Jay Cutler is "mildly above average". Matthew Stafford, Mike Glennon, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Carson Palmer are "mildly above average".

Russell Wilson is not a "mildly above average" NFL QB. Though not (yet) elite, he is clearly well above average.

Post: #97

Far too many guys look at stats (mostly yards) and apparently never watch the actual games.

For instance Seattle had some short fields tonight. That will hold down yardage numbers while still scoring points. A guy that has to drive the field each time will naturally have more yards than the guy that's starting near midfield.

A lot of the time the QB with huge passing yards loses the game because when playing from behind they have to throw the ball and often have to go the length of the field.

Stats are not everything.

Said simply, Wilson passes the eyeball test with flying colors.

Post: #98

(02-02-2014 11:49 PM)Sourcecode Wrote:  Congratulations Dirty Birds!

Falcons are the dirty birds.

Post: #99

(02-03-2014 04:27 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  Matthew Stafford, Mike Glennon, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Carson Palmer are "mildly above average".

10 players have thrown for more than 40 touchdowns in a season.
Only 5 players have thrown for more than 5,000 yards in a season.

Guess who's part of that list? Yep, such luminaries as Peyton, Brees, Marino, Brady, Warner...

and Matthew Stafford.

Clearly not in the same category as Mike frickin Glennon. Stafford's a great QB.

Post: #100