Post: #1

I watched the French movie 7 Days a while back. A man's little girl is raped and killed and the criminal laughs it off when he's caught. The dad ends up kidnapping and torturing him . Do you think you would try to do get revenge if something bad happened to a family member? Commit a crime to go to prison and meet him face to face? Or pay someone to take him out? People like to act like were above animals, but I wonder how many men's killer instinct would kick in and turn them into a completely different person.

Post: #2

I can't say for sure, as I've never been through the sort of situations that push many people over the edge. And I hope I never find myself in such desperate circumstance.

That said, I'm reminded of the novel A Time to Kill by John Grisham - two racist assholes rape and attempt to murder a guy's young daughter, so he hides in the janitor's closet at the courthouse and blows the two bastards away. Justice served in my opinion.

Hell, I've always said that in proven cases of rape, the court system needn't meter out any punishment beyond putting the offender in a 10x10 room with 5 male members of the victim's family, for five minutes. Should be all the time necessary to take care of business.

BTW another revenge story - the movie Nevada Smith featuring Steve McQueen. McQueen's parents are killed when he's young, later in life he purposely gets himself sent to prison so he can avenge his parents deaths.

Post: #3

(01-25-2014 09:42 PM)Screwston Wrote:  I watched the French movie 7 Days a while back. A man's little girl is raped and killed and the criminal laughs it off when he's caught. The dad ends up kidnapping and torturing him . Do you think you would try to do get revenge if something bad happened to a family member? Commit a crime to go to prison and meet him face to face? Or pay someone to take him out? People like to act like were above animals, but I wonder how many men's killer instinct would kick in and turn them into a completely different person.

People never believe it when you explain this, but 'civilized' people generally have a breaking point where they do uncivilized things.

For a well-to-do, respectable dude, this might be the chance of his kid being hurt.

Motherfucker will kill people and ruin lives to prevent his kids from being hurt.

Post: #4

(01-25-2014 09:42 PM)Screwston Wrote:  Do you think you would try to do get revenge if something bad happened to a family member? Commit a crime to go to prison and meet him face to face? Or pay someone to take him out? People like to act like were above animals, but I wonder how many men's killer instinct would kick in and turn them into a completely different person.

I would hope most men would answer yes. From a pure evolutionary protector role men should want to protect their family from external threats. If you would allow your mother/wife/daughter to be raped and killed with no retribution to the culprit you are not a man.

Post: #5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PUE8fYxjq8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JagIGXvXmmc

WATCH THESE. Justice is served.

Post: #6

I absolutely could. It doesn't even have to be a family member. It could be someone that I love like family. And anything involving a child. I have no love for people that would harm or exploit children.

Post: #7

I generally get more enraged by people I disagree with politically than people who have sinned. A person with a bad idea is a virus, a person who commits a horrible act just an idiot.

Anything can happen in a rage, but otherwise it's not worth the risk of 20 years in prison. For a random act, that is.

If there were a sliver of a chance that it was my own fault (such as trusting my child with a molester or leaving my wife in a bad place), then I would have to give my own life (in prison or otherwise) for the redemption of myself and my loved one.

Post: #8

The film Out of the Furnace portrays this dilemma excellently, where an average, hard working blue collar American faces the same circumstance. Awesome film and Bale's performance was superb.

WATCH IT

Post: #9

For those I owe loyalty to, yes. For thosei am bound to honor, yes. For those under patronage (theoretically, like a child of mine), yes. That is what built civilization.

But it doesn't necessarily need to be the vigilante style of justice.

Post: #10

This discussion reminds me of another thread on this forum---here is the link:

/thread-31082.html

Long story short a teenager got completely hammered and killed four pedestrians with reckless driving...and got off with no jail time because he was rich.

I posted this quote:

/thread-31082-...#pid602724

Quote:"Between this guy, not one single Wall Street prosecution for fraud during the run-up to the credit crisis, not one trial for torture or other war crimes during the Bush presidency, not one trial for the ridiculous lying to Congress done by James Clapper under Obama---if this isn't evidence that the "law" is selectively applied to shield the powerful from accountability while inflicting progressively draconian penalties on non-elites, I don't know what is.

If the father/husband of the daughter & wife who were killed picked up a gun and shot this kid, I would vote to acquit him if I was on the jury. Seriously. When justice cannot be obtained through the system---indeed, when the system is used to shield elites from accountability---then the only recourse is to obtain it in the streets. Otherwise, what you have is tyranny."

I think we are headed for a time where more people (especially men) will be forced to answer the core question of this thread. The fact is that we live in a two-tiered justice system---one set of rules for elites and another for the rest. This is why elites can destroy the global economy, kill people and engage is horrid lawlessness with no consequences while guys with a few ounces of weed or in a bar fight get their worlds rocked.

When you live in a system where the aristocracy can act with virtual impunity against anyone else then the question becomes--what lengths are you willing to go to obtain justice when the system will not dispense it? Is there any honor left in men at all in this country?

I have no problems going through the system first to obtain justice---after all, that is part of social contract we've all agreed to live under. But when that justice is abrogated by status I can only hope I would have the honor, my deeply held masculine identity and the sense worth of me and those I cherish, to wreak my own vengeance.

I hope there is honor left in me. I hope it never comes to that.

Post: #11

In my younger days I had a brutal temper and carried out revenge on behalf of my friends and brothers. Nowadays no, not even for my kids. Two reasons why:

1. "holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die" - revenge missions ate me up personally when doing them

2. I feel like it boosts the ego and hardens the person that revenge is taken on. They end of feeling more justified in what they did than feeling sorry.

#2 comes from having revenge exacted upon me, I felt somewhat bad about cheating on a girl until she went ahead with a revenge plan. Now we're even an I don't have an ounce of remorse. I've also seen it when someone gets a beat down for what they've done.

The best revenge is just dangling the sword above their head, that you know what they've done, keeping them looking over their shoulder but never exacting it.

Post: #12

One can't really know what they would do unless they were put in that position.

There's the concept of Karma, where life will punish the person later, but there's also instant Karma where the criminal is actually punished immediately, because upon doing the evil deed, they automatically become that kind of person who would do a terrible thing and they are no longer free to become anything greater. Of course to believe in this one would have to subscribe to the idea that spiritual development is not only possible, but the only real thing that matters in life. Therefore the inability to have that is the ultimate punishment.

Now, if you take it upon yourself to be the delivering hand of justice for life there will certainly be a price "you" will need to pay for that. Take what you want, but pay for it.

Post: #13

To quote James Caan from The Way of the Gun, "Karma? That's like revenge without the satisfaction. "

Post: #14

Law Abiding Citizen and Man on Fire are two more movies with this theme.

Personally a fan of both of them regardless of what the critics had to say.

You go after a man's family, you're declaring de facto war on the man himself. While there are definitely differing degrees as to offenses that would merit revenge, something like the rape and/or murder of a family member would definitely constitute a no holds barred type of retribution imo.

Post: #15

Considering that revenge as a motive is essentially universal to all cultures, and is one of the main reasons that society needs laws, I think it's fair to say that tons of people on this forum would do it.

Me personally in such an extreme situation, I would dig deep to find every legal and above-the-table means of totally destroying the offender's life, and traverse that list one by one until he was so much an outcast from every portion of society that he values, that he would find more peace dead than alive.

Winning is much more satisfying when you play by the rules.

Post: #16

Quote:"Me personally in such an extreme situation, I would dig deep to find every legal and above-the-table means of totally destroying the offender's life, and traverse that list one by one until he was so much an outcast from every portion of society that he values, that he would find more peace dead than alive."

I totally agree with this. At least initially I would let the justice system sort things out---it really is better that way and that's part of the pact you make to live in a civilized society.

But what if you have a situation akin to where that teen killed four people and got off basically scot-free? All legal means are exhausted for that heartbroken father/husband...so now what? It's a hard question and, frankly, I'm not sure what I would do. I would hope that I would be strong & honorable enough to do whatever was necessary---but I don't know that I would be. And living in a society where elites are operating with greater impunity than ever means that not having a sense of honor could just make you and yours prey for the predatory.

Sure, "winning is much more satisfying when you play by the rules"...but what if you're the only one playing by the rules? I don't have an answer so I don't expect one of anybody here--but it's something to think about.

Post: #17

Justice is served.

I wouldn't kill someone who harmed my family/friends unless it was legally justified.

Post: #18

(01-26-2014 05:06 PM)Apollo Wrote:  Law Abiding Citizen and Man on Fire are two more movies with this theme.

Personally a fan of both of them regardless of what the critics had to say.

Man on Fire is one of my favorite movies of all time!

Post: #19

(01-26-2014 06:48 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(01-26-2014 05:06 PM)Apollo Wrote:  Law Abiding Citizen and Man on Fire are two more movies with this theme.

Personally a fan of both of them regardless of what the critics had to say.

Man on Fire is one of my favorite movies of all time!

It was on TV earlier today, about the third time I've seen Man on Fire. Great movie

Post: #20

You're goddamn right I would. The only question I have for myself, that I hope I never have to answer, is would my goal be to disable and let the authorities handle it, or would I go all out and consciously kill the bastard. The guy in the second video that Agent 47 posted said that he feels remorse for what he did. I can't say I'd feel the same way. It would probably get me into trouble with the law. Can't say that I would care if it were my 4 year old.

Post: #21

If someone hurt my sister, I would definitely seek revenge. If she was legit raped, I hope that I would have the courage to kill them.

Post: #22

I can't go into too many details but i have taken revenge twice.

An adult male in my god-daughters life touched her inappropriately. Made sure he'll never do it again
(I've been friends with her mother since 9 years old, she met her husband through me). .

Back in the U.K. some guys tried raping my younger sister. Again i made sure none of them had to opportunity to do it again.