Post: #26

If anyone wants to read "reviews" and experiences of drugs, check out erowid.org

Post: #27

Funny how most of you guys interpret this as study a justification for use of soft drugs.

I would rather interpret this chart as showing how shitty tabaccoo and alcohol is - they are worse then many illegal drugs!

I agree that soft drugs should not be demonized and I agree that so called "war on drugs" is a bigotry, but that still doesn't change the fact that their use is a sign of short sightness, lack of purpose and giving in to social peer pressure.

I am glad my dopamine reward system is not fucked up and I can get high pleasure form banging chicks and lifting weights. The dopamine reward system of a drug user is like a loose stretched pussy - nothing healthy is enough to fill that hole.

Post: #28

(01-25-2014 12:36 AM)Mage Wrote:  Funny how most of you guys interpret this as study a justification for use of soft drugs.

I would rather interpret this chart as showing how shitty tabaccoo and alcohol is - they are worse then many illegal drugs!

I agree that soft drugs should not be demonized and I agree that so called "war on drugs" is a bigotry, but that still doesn't change the fact that their use is a sign of short sightness, lack of purpose and giving in to social peer pressure.

I am glad my dopamine reward system is not fucked up and I can get high pleasure form banging chicks and lifting weights. The dopamine reward system of a drug user is like a loose stretched pussy - nothing healthy is enough to fill that hole.

Haha you sound like one of those guys that says things like "Who needs drugs I get just as high thinking about Jesus"

Post: #29

I haven't had an alcoholic beverage since I was 18. This year I've decided to go 365 days drug free. I'm almost a month in and don't fee like I'm missing out on anything.

Also my body feels more natural, I can't think of a good way to describe it, and I'm way sharper and more level headed.

While drugs are a hell of a lot of fun, being sober is a lot more enjoyable than most people would imagine it to be.

Post: #30

(01-24-2014 08:40 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  I have a hard time believing that blow is worse than meth.

I've done plenty of blow and I'm not addicted nor have I felt any terrible effects.

I did meth once by accident (bad E) and it was the worst drug experience I've ever had.

Regardless, cool chart.

Pure ice fresh out the cooks' lab is incredible, I could try to describe it as the waves of euphoria from MDMA plus the time dilation (faster speed of thoughts) of LSD plus the lazer focus of amphetamines, but it wouldn't really be right, like all drugs you have to see it for yourself. I think that the ill effects of meth aren't from the drug itself but from drug abusers going on repeated 4 - 5 day sleepless binges without taking care of themselves with normal eating and water intake.

Post: #31

(01-25-2014 12:42 AM)PoosyWrecker Wrote:  Haha you sound like one of those guys that says things like "Who needs drugs I get just as high thinking about Jesus"

And you sound like a little rebellious child.

Post: #32

A ban on khat will go into effect in the UK in the next few months. It's already been banned for years in the US, Canada, and most of Europe. Supposed to have a huge effect on the Somali community. Vice did an interesting piece on it.

Post: #33

(01-25-2014 12:36 AM)Mage Wrote:  I agree that soft drugs should not be demonized and I agree that so called "war on drugs" is a bigotry, but that still doesn't change the fact that their use is a sign of short sightness, lack of purpose, and giving in to social peer pressure.

And yet, an uncountable number of guys with better game and more money than you use them... Why do you suppose that is? Say what you will about their music, but guys like Marilyn Manson, Lil Wayne, DMX... are not losers in any sense of the word.

(01-25-2014 12:36 AM)Mage Wrote:  I am glad my dopamine reward system is not fucked up and I can get high pleasure form banging chicks and lifting weights. The dopamine reward system of a drug user is like a loose stretched pussy - nothing healthy is enough to fill that hole.

No, it isn't... Drug use and drug addiction are not equivalent.

People like you are horrible PR for the sober lifestyle. Not because of your choice to abstain, but because of your deluded and smug sense of high ground.

Post: #34

(01-25-2014 12:53 AM)PoosyWrecker Wrote:  Pure ice fresh out the cooks' lab is incredible, I could try to describe it as the waves of euphoria from MDMA plus the time dilation (faster speed of thoughts) of LSD plus the lazer focus of amphetamines, but it wouldn't really be right, like all drugs you have to see it for yourself. I think that the ill effects of meth aren't from the drug itself but from drug abusers going on repeated 4 - 5 day sleepless binges without taking care of themselves with normal eating and water intake.

I'm inclined to respectfully disagree about it being incredible. All it's good for is developing a case of scatterfrycosis..

Post: #35

From my observations in the criminal justice system, meth is the worst for rapidly destroying people. Methheads end up rotting away in a couple of years.

Crack is second for rapid ruin. Heroin addicts can maintain for years if they don't OD but end up doing a lot of time in prison. Almost all male heroin addicts end up doing robberies and almost all women heroin addicts end up being whores.

Why khat is illegal, I don't know. It's pretty mild and better than coffee as a performance enhancing drug. I guess it was all of that Somali warlord scaremongering that did it in.

Post: #36

Having grown up in the 80's with DARE and stuff, I'm not even going to try to interject on the shit in this thread. No... wait, this counts, so might as well intro down.

Did alcohol in high school, weed in college, then after that the hardest was cocaine, but only when I was drunk. Did adderall a little bit in grad school, and snorked brownbrown when I was a Forest Ranger with the econ interns.

My drug use was limited to just that, usage.
Never touched anything damaging, like meth or heroin, so basically, there was truth and fib to all the DARE shit I was brought up with. Didn't stop me from actually doing it though, just never turned into a full blown abuser.

Thinking about it, I have an "addictive personality", I think.... addicted to tobacco, almost got addicted to alcohol, got addicted to FPS video games for a bit, but shook that shit off.

I'm typing this right now because I just tucked into some 52 yr old casket whiskey, and I'm allergic to alcohol, which means I turn into a hyper, insane, impulsive, CRAZY person. Like, "doing-lines-of-cocaine-off-a-low-flying-plane-beacon-light-on-top-of-a-cell-phone-tower-while-state-troopers-had-pulled-a-speeder-over-just-below" kind of crazy. The shit I could talk about. Or getting drunk and rally racing on suburb sidewalks in my 93 corolla. If anyone's interested in those kinds of stories, I'll go on. If not, then whatevs.

TLDR; alcohol is a helluva drug, depending on your physiology.

edit: Do they still have the DARE program in elementary school these days? (90's on up)

Post: #37

(01-25-2014 01:44 AM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

(01-25-2014 12:36 AM)Mage Wrote:  I agree that soft drugs should not be demonized and I agree that so called "war on drugs" is a bigotry, but that still doesn't change the fact that their use is a sign of short sightness, lack of purpose, and giving in to social peer pressure.

And yet, an uncountable number of guys with better game and more money than you use them... Why do you suppose that is? Say what you will about their music, but guys like Marilyn Manson, Lil Wayne, DMX... are not losers in any sense of the word.

There is also an uncountable numbe of guys with better game and more money then you who don't use drugs.
Manson and those rappers you named are losers in precisely that regard that they have to use drugs to build their style and fame. There are planty of famous rich guys who don't have to do that to be rich and famous. Do Clooney, di Caprio, Brad Pitt, Jack Nicholson, Vladimir Putin, Warren Buffet or Steve Jobs have to use drugs to be rich, famous and good with women? Maybe they use drugs or maybe they don't, but they sure don't need drugs to be rich and famous and that gives them a huge edge over losers like Manson and some dumb rappers who can be athorities only to immature acne ridden teenagers, with a desparate need for conformity by proclaiming their rebellious "non-conformity" - you seem to belong to this grop or at least have never outgrown it. Manson is king of losers, but a loser still.

(01-25-2014 01:44 AM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

(01-25-2014 12:36 AM)Mage Wrote:  I am glad my dopamine reward system is not fucked up and I can get high pleasure form banging chicks and lifting weights. The dopamine reward system of a drug user is like a loose stretched pussy - nothing healthy is enough to fill that hole.

No, it isn't... Drug use and drug addiction are not equivalent.

Right, they are no equivalent - One is dumb and other is dumber.

(01-25-2014 01:44 AM)Ziltoid Wrote:  [quote='Mage' pid='637166' dateline='1390628219']

People like you are horrible PR for the sober lifestyle. Not because of your choice to abstain, but because of your deluded and smug sense of high ground.

I am sorry I hurt your feelings, bro! Don't cry!

Post: #38

All right, I just read some more of this thread.
You two are arguing about bullshit that can't out stink the other. Different lifestyles, different perspectives, fuckin drop it, you aren't going to win a Nobel prize for convincing each other of something either way.
Fuck.
I'm a mean drunk. I'll cut someone just for the schlitz n gigglez. I need to clean my '41 Tula SVT40, so quit bitching like school girls. Makes me wanna shove a muzzle brake in a rectum.

Boon's Farm, you will get me banned from another forum.

Post: #39

(01-25-2014 07:21 AM)Mage Wrote:  or Steve Jobs have to use drugs to be rich, famous and good with women? Maybe they use drugs or maybe they don't, but they sure don't need drugs to be rich and famous a

Steve Jobs on LSD:

Quote:'It was a positive life changing experience for me and I am glad I went through that experience'.

Steve Jobs on ganja:

Quote:The best way I would describe the effect of the marijuana and the hashish is that it would make me relaxed and creative,'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...1970s.html


Mage you are not speaking from direct user experience here, you are grouping all 'drugs' together as if they all have the same psychological effects which isn't true. The same drug from the same batch can have different effects on different people, which is why most people who have take coke or ganga don't become destitute addicts living on the streets.

@commiejoe - the government disinfo program known as DARE was part of the curriculum in the early 90s when I was in school and is still a part of public schools, I still see DARE T-shirts worn by kids as an ironic statement.

@Architekt - do you know for certain it was the real deal? When I was a kid I smoked an entire joint without feeling anything, of what I now realize were marijuana stems and seeds mixed with old oregano.

Post: #40

So is an LSD trip similar to how it was portrayed by Roger?

Post: #41

Governments have always tried to ban things they view as socially corrosive.

The Roman emperors were quick to regulate foods and substances from the East which they viewed as pernicious, rare, or tending to corrupt morals.
(Of course, the bans didn't apply to themselves).

One of the Turkish sultans even tried to ban coffee with the death penalty. He was not successful.

And in England several hundred years ago, gin consumption was a big problem...much like the crack epidemic in American cities in the 1980s. Cheap, powerful, and "addictive" for the impoverished, women were seen as especially susceptible to drunkenness by gin drinking. Check out Hogarth's famous print, "Gin Lane" (below).

So, it's just a matter of where you draw the line. It's impossible to ban everything. Wise leadership will have to weigh allocations of resources, degree of public harm, and the benefits of taxation and revenue collection.

I'd like to know more about Somali "khat", though...

Post: #42

Drugs were great when I was young and carefree. A lot of my best memories and stories revolve around MDMA and Acid... even weed and beer. I'm older now and couldn't go back to that life if I wanted to. I will be forever grateful tho that I got to enjoy and experience them in my younger years.

Post: #43

(01-25-2014 12:32 PM)PoosyWrecker Wrote:  

(01-25-2014 07:21 AM)Mage Wrote:  or Steve Jobs have to use drugs to be rich, famous and good with women? Maybe they use drugs or maybe they don't, but they sure don't need drugs to be rich and famous a

Steve Jobs on LSD:

Quote:'It was a positive life changing experience for me and I am glad I went through that experience'.

Steve Jobs on ganja:

Quote:The best way I would describe the effect of the marijuana and the hashish is that it would make me relaxed and creative,'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...1970s.html

Mage you are not speaking from direct user experience here, you are grouping all 'drugs' together as if they all have the same psychological effects which isn't true. The same drug from the same batch can have different effects on different people, which is why most people who have take coke or ganga don't become destitute addicts living on the streets.

So ok one of the many dudes I dropped from my head did drugs, but my point was that his fame does not depend on it. The link you posted says he did it 15 times over a period of few years decades ago. That hardly characterizes him as a drug user. As for his statements of experience - that is all western people babble about all the time - how that and that was a good expriance. I filter out such shit.

I understand why you defend drugs. You take pride in your ability to play with fire and use them for a rare controled pleasure trip without the negative side effects that come from overuse when addiction forces you to overuse. You feel superior to those who slip and fall into addiction. You take pride into the fact that the negative "different effects" don't seem to apply to you but they apply to others. You even feel superior to guys like me who don't try out drugs, you think that I am prudish and passing on life, while you are the master of getting pleasure. But that is how drugs get people - trough ego.

All drugs leave different but negative effects on all the people. These effects on you are so small that you don't notice them. But every time you you use drugs the effects get bigger. There will be a critical point when you start noticing these effects, but your prideful stance of superiority will have you lulled in denial by the time it happens. So don't try to show me how cool you are with your deep and intimate personal experience of drugs. You are playing a game where there are risks, but where there are no gains. Not smart at all.

Post: #44

Mage, its amazing you have such strong beliefs that drugs (im assuming you're not including alcohol, even though the published metastudy has it more addictive and physically harmful than many others) have zero positives and always lead to some form of addiction, without having an iota of personal experience.

Ive always felt if you are genuinely happy sober, then you are safe to use drugs recreationally. Its people who have messed up lives usually, mental illness, poverty, etc. who abuse drugs (take too much too often). Alcohol is famous in this respect. There are some exceptions, for example celebrities who have endless money and no semblance of a normal life to uphold who can get addicted. Feeble minded people tend to ignore proper causation, and rather assume that the homeless got that way through drugs, rather than having such a shit life and nothing to lose makes them want to be high all the time.

Heroin and meth have destructiveness not found in the others. Coke has a tendency to inspire addiction because of its short effects and wanting more, however I know plenty of people who use it occasionally on weekends with no ill effects. When I say ill effects I mean job, money, social life etc. Everyone knows about "chemical karma" which is generally the better you feel the night before, the worse you will feel the day after. Still, alcohol has the worst hangover IMO after a night of excess.

Post: #45

(01-25-2014 04:34 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(01-25-2014 12:32 PM)PoosyWrecker Wrote:  

(01-25-2014 07:21 AM)Mage Wrote:  or Steve Jobs have to use drugs to be rich, famous and good with women? Maybe they use drugs or maybe they don't, but they sure don't need drugs to be rich and famous a

Steve Jobs on LSD:

Quote:'It was a positive life changing experience for me and I am glad I went through that experience'.

Steve Jobs on ganja:

Quote:The best way I would describe the effect of the marijuana and the hashish is that it would make me relaxed and creative,'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...1970s.html

Mage you are not speaking from direct user experience here, you are grouping all 'drugs' together as if they all have the same psychological effects which isn't true. The same drug from the same batch can have different effects on different people, which is why most people who have take coke or ganga don't become destitute addicts living on the streets.

So ok one of the many dudes I dropped from my head did drugs, but my point was that his fame does not depend on it. The link you posted says he did it 15 times over a period of few years decades ago. That hardly characterizes him as a drug user. As for his statements of experience - that is all western people babble about all the time - how that and that was a good expriance. I filter out such shit.

I understand why you defend drugs. You take pride in your ability to play with fire and use them for a rare controled pleasure trip without the negative side effects that come from overuse when addiction forces you to overuse. You feel superior to those who slip and fall into addiction. You take pride into the fact that the negative "different effects" don't seem to apply to you but they apply to others. You even feel superior to guys like me who don't try out drugs, you think that I am prudish and passing on life, while you are the master of getting pleasure. But that is how drugs get people - trough ego.

All drugs leave different but negative effects on all the people. These effects on you are so small that you don't notice them. But every time you you use drugs the effects get bigger. There will be a critical point when you start noticing these effects, but your prideful stance of superiority will have you lulled in denial by the time it happens. So don't try to show me how cool you are with your deep and intimate personal experience of drugs. You are playing a game where there are risks, but where there are no gains. Not smart at all.

This is absolutely nonsensical. All drugs leave negative effects on people? You clearly have never thought this out. Are you talking about illegal drugs? Governments define what is illegal, not medical practitioners. Are you talking about psychoactive drugs? Or is aspirin bad?

Almost anything can have negative effects when used in a chemically destructive way. I'm going to make an attempt to make sense of what you're saying, so I'll assume you're talking about psychoactive drug effects on the human brain. You're making absurd reductionist statements as if there is some clearing house in the brain that records "negative" effects each time a drug is used. There are myriad different pathways that drugs operate on in the brain.

Have you ever heard of the term homeostasis? The brain generally operates on chemical receptors on cell surfaces. Assuming these systems aren't irreparably damaged by overdoses or toxic reactions, they are elastic and will return to their original states over time.

Drug addiction doesn't happen in a box. Plenty of other factors play into whether someone will become addicted to a substance than just ingesting that substance, as _DC_ highlighted.

Post: #46

(01-25-2014 02:11 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  I'd like to know more about Somali "khat", though...

Khat is mostly grown in highlands in Kenya and Ethiopia and flown to Somalia on planes. Time is of the essence in distribution, because it loses potency quickly.

You can buy it in Kenya, where it's known as miraa. Just look for a grocery "kiosk" with some banana leaves hanging in front, it's a sign.

It's a bunch of stems with leaves sold bundled up and wrapped in newspaper. They offer it with bubble gum - take some, because it keeps the vegetable mass together when you're chewing it and cuts the bitter taste.

It's a pretty good drug, because it's nothing that big. You can stay up all night partying with it, or go to bed and lie in a dreamy state staring at the ceiling. It's a good sex drug, and it generally enhances concentration and attention. Long distance drivers in East Africa love it.

Post: #47

Hotwheels, you'll notice that cocaine isn't split into powder and crack as it should be. Im guessing the crack embodiment is giving blow an extra bad name.

Post: #48

Here is another chart from the same metastudy. Educate thine selves. From a personal standpoint, alcohol is the 4th most harmful after the three I won't touch: heroin, meth, and crack. With the crime, duis, and domestic abuse, its an easy #1.

Post: #49

Mushrooms in last place for all harm categories.

Post: #50

All these charts convinced me is that I need to try LSD or Shrooms one time. I've only touched weed up until this point. I've got a pretty addicting personality so I don't think I'll give anything else a try.