Post: #1

I'm a big believer that a man must get completely shit faced drunk by himself every once in a while. Yes, that means drinking alone in your place. Hell, most of my moments of enlightenment were realized when completely hammered by myself sitting on my living room floor with some music playing in the background.

I do it rarely, couple times a year or so.

Recently I have been a lot of partying for a couple reasons but I've started to cut back on drinking as a whole. Only having a few when out with friends. Cutting back drinking to one night a week.

But sometimes I'm at home a will have a drink with dinner. I get started working on something and next thing I know I'm six beers in.

Something funny happens then. I know I shouldn't drink anymore, as I will regret the hangover and the lack of productivity in the morning. A couple hours of extra sleep and an couple hours of nursing a hangover kills productivity. But at night, after the six beers, I just don't want to stop. Drinking even though I know it is not going to benefit me.

I don't need the alcohol to function, so its not alcoholism. But sometimes I wonder if I'm getting dangerously close to developing a problem.

Post: #2

My guess is you already have a problem. Drinking when you don't want to indicates you don't control it anymore. That's a strong sign of addiction. You say it damages your productivity. Whatever the label you put on it, it's reducing what you're going to accomplish in your life.

The hours spent recovering (hangovers) are never regained.

The term "Strong believer" really sounds like an addict's rationalization, like a religious affection.

============

I work in mental health, the CAGE screen is pretty good and simple.

The problem with alcohol is there's lot of subcultures where really very excessive alcohol use is considered normal, sort of like the way really fat women are considered normal in parts of America.

Also, once over 40 a lot of people you see who are fat ( including me ) are fat because of alcohol. It reduces your will and ability to exercise, and adds totally empty calories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAGE_questionnaire

Two "yes" responses indicate that the possibility of alcoholism should be investigated further.

The questionnaire asks the following questions:

Have you ever felt you needed to Cut down on your drinking?

Have people Annoyed you by criticizing your drinking?

Have you ever felt Guilty about drinking?

Have you ever felt you needed a drink first thing in the morning (Eye-opener) to steady your nerves or to get rid of a hangover?

If you've ever gotten a DUI in general it never goes off your record.
I've had several lifer inmate clients when I worked in prisons who were pig-headed, got a DUI, then later killed someone while driving drunk. That's Murder 1 here in California.

They all whined like little bitches how unfair their life sentences were.

The people they had killed weren't around to whine.

Post: #3

Given CAGE.

I have felt like I should cut down. So thats one yes.

the rest, no.

Its more of a once I start I dont want to stop thing. As opposed to a "I have to have a drink" type of thing.

But I know I have a highly addictive personality. When I start something I tend go 100% full bore at it, ask questions later type deal.

Then again, my line of work encourages heavy drinking. Work hard, play hard type deal. Exactly like the subculture you were talking about. My drinking hasn't affected work or personal life. But it is something that personally I feel I should cut back on.

I would guess I'm pretty close to developing a problem. I just need to find a way to minimize it while still maintaining my lifestyle.

Post: #4

(01-11-2014 12:57 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  My drinking hasn't affected work or personal life. But it is something that personally I feel I should cut back on.

You've specifically said recovering wastes your time. Doesn't that affect everything, even if only indirectly?

You ARE time. All your existence is just a sequence of moments and nothing else.

"Time--time is all you got."

--Ry Cooder -- "Flathead Ford"

Post: #5

Contrary to popular belief, a drinking problem is not a binary issue of YES or NO.

It's a scale.

How much of a "problem" you have depends on how far down the scale you have fallen.

There's the homeless drunk who spends his every last dollar on alcohol and throws up in the gutter every night.

There's the student who drops out of college because he partied (i.e. drank) too much and flunked his classes.

There's the highly productive CEO who drinks heavily at home, has terrible liver health but goes under the radar in his career.

There's the chav couple who go to the local pub every night to be "social". Somehow they don't notice how unhappy their kids are who have to go along with them.

There's the aspiring bodybuilder who wants to compete professionally but keeps missing PRs and ruining his recovery because of his partying with his bros. He is adamant that he can "handle it" although he knows he'd be stronger if he didn't drink.

Then there is the rest of us who occasionally drink too much, have a horrible hangover and swear we will never touch alcohol again but we are back drinking a day later.

Which of these people would be classified as "alcoholics"? Does it even matter? They all have a "problem" however you look at it. Society prefers to ignore all but the most extreme cases to avoid the issue.

If you drink alcohol heavily on a regular basis the question is how much of a problem you have, not whether you have a problem.

I think every guy can and will decide for himself whether alcohol is negatively affecting his life.

My point is you don't need to wait until you are "addicted" before you take action.

If this stuff is hurting you, take a break from it.

Read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Allen-Carrs-Easy-C...allen+carr (Hat tip to Beyond Borders)

You may want to consider joining the drinking wagon:

/thread-30625.html

Post: #6

Dreambig's post is essentially the modern "harm reduction" model expressed in good story form.

Harm reduction gets away from the all or nothing issue of "alcoholic/not alcoholic"; which is good because people don't want to get thrown in the bin of "alcoholic."

That said, there are some people who cannot drink at all without spinning out and losing control and wrecking their lives.

According to Harm Reduction, if you drink 4 instead of 6 one night, that may be better than the night before. Every small step is an improvement.

Post: #7

(01-11-2014 12:57 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  Then again, my line of work encourages heavy drinking. Work hard, play hard type deal. Exactly like the subculture you were talking about. My drinking hasn't affected work or personal life. But it is something that personally I feel I should cut back on.

I would guess I'm pretty close to developing a problem. I just need to find a way to minimize it while still maintaining my lifestyle.

That's good that you're looking at taking proactive measures.

My dad is what you'd call a "high functioning" alcoholic...and a workaholic.

So for him, part of his life, part of being a man, is to consume alcohol on a regular basis and sometimes in large quantities. For better or worse, that's just who he is.

He's paid for it over the years though in one way or another.

It caused him to be an abusive husband, both physically and verbally, effectively ending his marriage to my mother. Prior to that, because of the drinking, he wasn't exactly the best parent in the world. In fact, barely did he show any interest or honest emotion toward my sisters or myself. The sad thing is, he probably thought he was acting in a "normal" way, not seeing any problem existing.

My mother recently told me, when we were kids, if there was some sort of activity we were doing (school play etc), he would only attend if alcohol was available. That's a pretty sad state of affairs, if supporting and showing interest in your kids lives hinges on the certainty of getting shickered.

I'm just thankful that I experience terrible hang-overs if I drink heavily (experience a depressive state), which is more in line with how my mother reacts to alcohol, otherwise, I probably would've gone through a similar existence.

Post: #8

I just came off 15 years of sobriety. I quit drinking because I wasn't sure I was making sound decisions about my life anymore. I'm not sure being sober changed my decisions all that much overall, but at least I knew it was me making them. And sometimes that's all you need. I'm comfortable drinking now because I know that, no matter what, where I am now is unquestionably the result of an entirely sober decision making process. Good or bad, I was fully aware. If you are absolutely convinced you can say that with your current level of drinking, I would say that you don't have a problem. If not, you should quit for a while.

Post: #9

Just set a two-drink limit when drinking at home alone (except for the twice-a-year free-for-all that you described).

If you cannot respect that self-imposed rule, then you must admit to yourself that you have a problem that you must address.

Post: #10

If you can't make the rent payments and you can point to a Friday night (or whenever) as being the cause of the deficit, you probably have a drinking problem.

Post: #11

if you have to ask, you have a problem

Post: #12

Agree with reaper - at that point where you stop and wonder if you have a problem, you probably have a problem.

I'm not saying there's a one-size-fits-all prescription for that problem, but it is nonetheless a problem that should be dealt with.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #13

I can relate to some extent, drinking has been very prominent in my local culture and I do enjoy a drink solo occasionally. Although it is a warped perception, where I live the person that can drink the most is always looked up to - it is seen as a sign of masculinity.

I personally believe if you can easily afford, moderate and keep your self control - there is no problem.

Post: #14

(01-11-2014 10:10 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  if you have to ask, you have a problem

I agree with this, but it's worth explaining why I think this is true.

I believe that drinking (and by this I mean relatively hard drinking to the point of a serious buzz -- not talking about a glass of wine with dinner) can be truly good only when it's a completely unquestioned and unclouded pleasure and privilege -- when one naturally thinks of it as a joyous extension and enlargement of life, and is never given occasion to think of it otherwise. This can be true for men who are very young, typically until about the mid 20s, late 20s at the latest. When you are in that state of innocence with respect to drinking, the idea of a "problem" never occurs, and there is none.

However, what is also true of drinking is that once that innocence is lost, it is lost entirely. Once the idea and reality of drinking is problematized in any way -- once you sense that it's not all that it was, and that it is serving as a replacement rather than an extension of true interest in and engagement with life -- then the stain goes all the way through. There is a darkening that happens and even if one fights it and attempts to convince oneself that everything is the same as before, there is always in the back of one's mind the knowledge that something is off.

The proudest men will deny this knowledge for the longest time because they experience it as an insult. But there is no need to think of it that way. Rather, accept that things change, and that what was once an uncomplicated joy is now no longer that -- and that it might be time to let it go.

Post: #15

I just drink to maintain a comfortable buzz. I don't like getting to the point of being drunk because I don't feel in control. Emotions get triggered easily. Fights break out over nothing. Not everyone is a happy drunk.

Post: #16

I've been drinking since 15 which is now close to two decades. That is normal where I'm from, but I am noticing more and more adverse effects from it. Not the bottle or two of wine a week, but the binge drinking with mates once in a while. I almost always feel like shit the next day both physically and mentally. I have a problem with stopping drinking in time when out with friends. Once I hit those first five drinks or beers, then I will likely hit 10 and more. I find it difficult to drink in moderation in social settings. Fortunately I don't drink that much by myself, but I have begun thinking I need to try to stop the binging completely even though it has been and is very common in society.

Post: #17

My problem was not too much drinking, it was too little drinking.

I never drank growing up or in my 20s, I was obsessively trying to be a pro athlete and I never really enjoyed it anyways.

I would do dates and I wouldn't drink, this would make the girl feel weird about drinking. This stupid strategy really hurt my sexual success.

I realized that I should start drinking for social and sexual purposes.

Alcohol increased my fuck close rate by about 500%. Big surprise right!?!

Then, I had another drinking problem!

I didn't know how to drink!

I didn't know what type of alcohol was the best fit for my body and I drank too fast

Through trial and error, I learned what type of drinks I like and the pace that I should drink them. I learned to eat before drinking and to drink water afterwards.

I also learned to keep some bottles at home and in my car, just in case.

I learned to not let girls get too drunk!

I learned to target girls that live within a $15-$20 dollar cab ride from my house. This means I can get fucked up, bang her, call her a cab, hand her a 20 dollar bill (maybe), give her a kiss and say "text me when you get home".

Alcohol is great in moderation.

Post: #18

Just drink lots of water before you go to bed and you wont get a hangover.

Or maybe you will. Ive heard the older you get the worse the hangovers get.

Any truth to that?

Post: #19

(01-11-2014 07:37 PM)kickboxer Wrote:  Just drink lots of water before you go to bed and you wont get a hangover.

Or maybe you will. Ive heard the older you get the worse the hangovers get.

Any truth to that?

A lot of truth to that.

My strategy now is to drink water every couple of alcoholic drinks.

Pro's - don't get as drunk, and hangovers are less severe.

Con's - don't get as drunk, and have to piss more often.

Post: #20

Alcohol can get the best of anyone. Can be dangerous but oh, so pleasant. . . I love that zen feeling of not giving a fuck about man and its universe when a few drinks in. The total and absolute freedom of the mind.

So far I noticed that drinking lots of water and eating salty things seems to help make the next morning better. Even better to have duck fat / meat anything with booze. And the morning after (duck confit FTW). Its restorative properties should not be underestimated.

The cost is the biggest deterrent for me right now. I can have a balls out awesome night and not eat for 3 days? I'll pass. If I have money its just dangerous.

Post: #21

You have a problem when you start to crave alcohol in order to be able to do most basic things during your day. I mean, everyone wants a drink or two from time to time, but if you can't function properly without a drink then you have a problem. I've seen this and it can make your life hell in very short time. I've seen people get absolutely miserable and suicidal if left without a drink for a couple of hours.

Post: #22

(01-13-2014 06:23 AM)funkyzeit Wrote:  You have a problem when you start to crave alcohol in order to be able to do most basic things during your day. I mean, everyone wants a drink or two from time to time, but if you can't function properly without a drink then you have a problem. I've seen this and it can make your life hell in very short time. I've seen people get absolutely miserable and suicidal if left without a drink for a couple of hours.

this is a really high bar for a problem.


More reasonable:

persisting to drink in the face of negative consequences which can be financial, emotional, physical, professional, personal, etc.

Post: #23

If you are wondering if you have a drinking problem, congrats! you have a drinking problem.

Regular people get shitfaced once in a while, but that never makes them think "they have a problem".

If you burn your tongue on hot coffee once, well, coffee was too hot. If you burn yourself every fucking time you drink coffee, then you have a problem.

Post: #24

I come from a culture where extremely heavy drinking is pretty normal. I never thought I had a problem until one night in college I was introduced to friends of friends as 'oh hey, its [zatara], the alcoholic, I've heard about you!'. With hindsight I was blacking out 2 or 3 times a week so they weren't far off...

I still absolutely love alcohol, and will occasionally get totally blitzed if I'm just drinking with a group of guys in a house. Discovering game saved me though. When I realised that by being sober and coherent enough to actually talk to a girl I increased my chances of getting laid massively it was motivation enough to reign the drinking in to a 'buzzed' level instead of blackout.

A decent test one of my friends who's also a recovering semi-alcoholic uses is that he now always makes sure hes never the drunkest in the group. It's not foolproof but it seems to motivate/work for him pretty well.