Your American passport has everything to do with that, , not your whiteness. I get more shit coming home into the USA then anywhere else

Why was 262 banned?

Was in Budapest last summer for 90 days before heading to Zagreb. After a month in Croatia I came back to Budapest for a weekend on the train and had no problems at the border.
I had heard from a few people this was possible though Hungary. I confirmed it with some local Hungarian friends who explained it the same way it has been explained through this thread...Leave the Schengen through Hungary on your 89th day, spend a day or two in Zagreb or Belgrade, and come back through Hungary and youre good to go.

(02-09-2017 01:16 AM)FretDancer Wrote:  Why was 262 banned?

I don't really know but he was a huge help on this topic.

My best friend just flew to Budapest from New York yesterday. He used his 90 days a month ago and he had to go back to United States after spending 90 days in Italy. Normally, he has to spend 3 months in USA so he can come back to Europe again but he flew to Budapest yesterday after reading info in here.

He said, as soon as he landed in Budapest, custom didn't even ask single question and stamped on his passport in 5 seconds. Everything is good, he will stay 89 days, I'll update when he goes out of EU too.

(02-18-2017 07:05 AM)Rossi Wrote:  My best friend just flew to Budapest from New York yesterday. He used his 90 days a month ago and he had to go back to United States after spending 90 days in Italy. Normally, he has to spend 3 months in USA so he can come back to Europe again but he flew to Budapest yesterday after reading info in here.

He said, as soon as he landed in Budapest, custom didn't even ask single question and stamped on his passport in 5 seconds. Everything is good, he will stay 89 days, I'll update when he goes out of EU too.

Thanks for the intel!

(02-18-2017 07:36 AM)This Is Trouble Wrote:  Thanks for the intel!

No problem, big thanks to ElJefe1 too.

I think he's the one who mentioned Budapest loophole in here first. My friend spoke with Hungarian Embassy in Washington and they said it wasn't possible on the phone but he got in yesterday without no problem.

I think what embassy say and what custom police do are totally opposite.

(02-18-2017 11:03 AM)Rossi Wrote:  I think what embassy say and what custom police do are totally opposite.

I've found that to be often the case. Embassy personnel tend to be fairly disinformed about empiric applications of the rules that be...

Does anyone have update on this recently?

Does anybody know that Norway have immigration when coming from EU countries since Norway are not in Schengen?

Norway is in Schengen but not in the EU

But Norwegians are saying, they are enforcing passport check even if you fly from EU. I just called Oslo Airport 2 hours ago.

Norway seems to be upping the talk on their resistance to unchecked entry but it you call the airport they will naturally tell you that yes they will control stuff.
Wouldnt be surprised if they actually do though,considering how their neighbor is turning into a hell on earth caliphate and might want to quarantine the disease.

Yes. That's what I'm wondering.

I'm Italian, I dont have problem but I have 2 Americans friends wanting to come with me. They came to EU via Hungary, so they don't want passport check if we end up going to Norway but a lot of people are saying, they do check passports even if you come from EU.

I've read this entire thread twice. Correct me if I'm wrong:

From what I understand it's possible for US citizens using the Poland/Hungary loophole to stay in either country indefinitely using border runs outside Schengen (e.g. Ukraine) every 90 days. This is because of each county has individual, bilateral agreements with the USA that overrule Schengen.

However the problem arises when crossing from Poland or Hungry into other Schengen/EU country (e.g. France). This is because even if the other country (e.g. France) has it's such own bilateral agreement with the USA, they do not recognize the aggreements between the US and other countries (e.g. US-Poland agreement).

Therefore that country's Immigration will likely count your 90 days out of 180 days in Poland as being the max allowed for six months. You could even have spent 70-80 days but the official could decide the remaining 10 days are not enough justification to let you in without an itinerary or proof of return flight within the remaining time. This could happen at a land border within Schengen. Or you could have flown home for a month. Then connected through Amsterdam and they fuck you.

However, the purpose of Schengen is to eliminate border checks. So theoretically you should be free to travel within Schengen without being checked so long as you never leave Schengen.

The reality however is there have always remained intermittent checks in some countries, crossings, or types of vehicle/transit mode. These checks have intensified because of the migrant crisis. So you will likely face a passport check at some point. Especially Germany.

However, the purpose of these checks is to prevent terrorism and illegal African/Middle Eastern migrants. The official likely has to make checks all day long with no mandate to detain an American tourist. They will be unlikely to check your stamps. But again this will vary depending on border crossing, country, mode of transit etc.

So essentially this loophole is guaranteed only if you want to stay in Hungary or Poland. If you want to stay in another EU/Schengen country it's technically illegal and your playing the odds of not getting caught by other countries.

And if you get lazy about going back every 90 to Hungary/Poland you're also st the mercy of a Hungarian or Polish immigration official believing that you were in their country the whole time and accepting your hotel receipts from X country as proof that you exited sometime every 90 days.

Is this correct?

As a caveat: Scandinavian countries allow US citizens to stay an "extra" 90 days on top of 90 already spent in the EU/Schengen. So theoretically you could stay in France 90 days, fly to Denmark and travel around Scandinavia 90 days.

You could not however fly back to Hungary/Denmark because you must exit Schengen and fly into either country from a nonSchengen zone. But if you did that you would be good to stay in Poland for another 90 days (but sneaky-fuck spend some or all of that time back in France or Italy so long as you avoid detection).

Can someone explain what's the difference between max limit in Schengen vs. EU and how one effects the other?

What's still confusing me is how some countries are EU and Schengen while other are Schengen but not EU. How can this be used to your advantage as well?

It may seem like a ridiculous scenario but I'm location independent. I rarely like staying in one city more than 3 months at a time. But I like to return within the same year for season festivals and to bang plates/MLTRs while their still spinning. Plus I don't do snow winter or scorching summers anymore. So I often move with the season and cycle back to a place when weather gets temperate again.

I may even buy a camper at some point and try driving it all around EU for a year or two before selling it again. Then I'd really need to make sure I had the rules correct.

Another scenario that's crossed my mind. Spend 90 days for the cold winter in southern Mediterranean. Then travel around Scandinavia for 90 days in the heat of summer. According to what's written here this would be legal even if I never exit Schengen because of the extra 90 days for Scandinavia.

However I could choose to spend 3 months of the warm spring in Poland/Hungary so long as I transited through the Non-Schengen Balkans from southern EU, then went directly to either country. Yes?

There is almost no search when traveling between EU countries. For example, I went last year from Italy to Lithuania, Italy to Latvia, Italy to France, Italy to Spain, France to Greece, Spain to Portugal, Sweden to Estonia etc and my passport wasn't even checked once. Nobody looks at it.

Since I graduated from American college in LA, I told my friend all about this loophole. My friend went from LA => Poland => Italy, spent 89 days here, Italy => Poland => Los Angeles again.

And then, same friend came to Hungary a month later from Los Angeles. He's in France now.

Does anyone have updates on this lately?

(03-27-2017 01:36 PM)Rossi Wrote:  There is almost no search when traveling between EU countries. For example, I went last year from Italy to Lithuania, Italy to Latvia, Italy to France, Italy to Spain, France to Greece, Spain to Portugal, Sweden to Estonia etc and my passport wasn't even checked once. Nobody looks at it.

Flight manifests (lists of passengers) are uploaded to the SIS-II database. Same deal with journeys by bus, train and ship. Every border guard can see that information when the scan your passport.

If you're looking to avoid any record of your travel, you'll have to go on foot or in a vehicle which carries no more than 11 passengers.

(04-06-2017 02:23 PM)DaveR Wrote:  Flight manifests (lists of passengers) are uploaded to the SIS-II database. Same deal with journeys by bus, train and ship. Every border guard can see that information when the scan your passport.

If you're looking to avoid any record of your travel, you'll have to go on foot or in a vehicle which carries no more than 11 passengers.

I didn't even have my passport with me when I flew to Milano to Paris or Milano to Madrid.

I'll go to Madrid again on Sunday, i don't have passport with me again. Nobody ever asked me passport.

(04-06-2017 05:02 PM)Rossi Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 02:23 PM)DaveR Wrote:  Flight manifests (lists of passengers) are uploaded to the SIS-II database. Same deal with journeys by bus, train and ship. Every border guard can see that information when the scan your passport.

If you're looking to avoid any record of your travel, you'll have to go on foot or in a vehicle which carries no more than 11 passengers.

I didn't even have my passport with me when I flew to Milano to Paris or Milano to Madrid.

I'll go to Madrid again on Sunday, i don't have passport with me again. Nobody ever asked me passport.

Your name is on your boarding pass... Usually you won't need to show ID if it's booked with a credit/debit card in the same name.

I've entered France from the US without any passport scan 3 times now.

(03-27-2017 05:45 AM)Travel Museums Wrote:  I've read this entire thread twice. Correct me if I'm wrong:

From what I understand it's possible for US citizens using the Poland/Hungary loophole to stay in either country indefinitely using border runs outside Schengen (e.g. Ukraine) every 90 days. This is because of each county has individual, bilateral agreements with the USA that overrule Schengen.

However the problem arises when crossing from Poland or Hungry into other Schengen/EU country (e.g. France). This is because even if the other country (e.g. France) has it's such own bilateral agreement with the USA, they do not recognize the aggreements between the US and other countries (e.g. US-Poland agreement).

Therefore that country's Immigration will likely count your 90 days out of 180 days in Poland as being the max allowed for six months. You could even have spent 70-80 days but the official could decide the remaining 10 days are not enough justification to let you in without an itinerary or proof of return flight within the remaining time. This could happen at a land border within Schengen. Or you could have flown home for a month. Then connected through Amsterdam and they fuck you.

However, the purpose of Schengen is to eliminate border checks. So theoretically you should be free to travel within Schengen without being checked so long as you never leave Schengen.

The reality however is there have always remained intermittent checks in some countries, crossings, or types of vehicle/transit mode. These checks have intensified because of the migrant crisis. So you will likely face a passport check at some point. Especially Germany.

However, the purpose of these checks is to prevent terrorism and illegal African/Middle Eastern migrants. The official likely has to make checks all day long with no mandate to detain an American tourist. They will be unlikely to check your stamps. But again this will vary depending on border crossing, country, mode of transit etc.

So essentially this loophole is guaranteed only if you want to stay in Hungary or Poland. If you want to stay in another EU/Schengen country it's technically illegal and your playing the odds of not getting caught by other countries.

And if you get lazy about going back every 90 to Hungary/Poland you're also st the mercy of a Hungarian or Polish immigration official believing that you were in their country the whole time and accepting your hotel receipts from X country as proof that you exited sometime every 90 days.

Is this correct?

As a caveat: Scandinavian countries allow US citizens to stay an "extra" 90 days on top of 90 already spent in the EU/Schengen. So theoretically you could stay in France 90 days, fly to Denmark and travel around Scandinavia 90 days.

You could not however fly back to Hungary/Denmark because you must exit Schengen and fly into either country from a nonSchengen zone. But if you did that you would be good to stay in Poland for another 90 days (but sneaky-fuck spend some or all of that time back in France or Italy so long as you avoid detection).

Can someone explain what's the difference between max limit in Schengen vs. EU and how one effects the other?

What's still confusing me is how some countries are EU and Schengen while other are Schengen but not EU. How can this be used to your advantage as well?

It may seem like a ridiculous scenario but I'm location independent. I rarely like staying in one city more than 3 months at a time. But I like to return within the same year for season festivals and to bang plates/MLTRs while their still spinning. Plus I don't do snow winter or scorching summers anymore. So I often move with the season and cycle back to a place when weather gets temperate again.

I may even buy a camper at some point and try driving it all around EU for a year or two before selling it again. Then I'd really need to make sure I had the rules correct.

Another scenario that's crossed my mind. Spend 90 days for the cold winter in southern Mediterranean. Then travel around Scandinavia for 90 days in the heat of summer. According to what's written here this would be legal even if I never exit Schengen because of the extra 90 days for Scandinavia.

However I could choose to spend 3 months of the warm spring in Poland/Hungary so long as I transited through the Non-Schengen Balkans from southern EU, then went directly to either country. Yes?

You're seriously over analyzing this, it's pretty simple... leave the Schengen and return via these two countries and you're good to go. Since the migrant crisis there are border checks in Schengen countries they dont really seem to care how long you've been in the Schengen since you're not entering or exiting moreso that you're there legally, if you're American which is whom this thread is specifically for you're good. That blue passport makes life easier, border patrol doesn't want problems with the US embassy in their country.

Figured I'd share my experience leaving Hungary and coming back to back up ElJefe1's posts (thanks for the help, dude).

A refresher: I entered Hungary back in January via Budapest Airport. The immigration officer didn't scan or scrutinize my passport in any way, nor did she ask any questions. I handed it to her, she stamped it and handed it back. The process took about ten seconds.

I went to Lviv, Ukraine via train last Monday and left Hungary via the Záhony/Chop border crossing. After buying my ticket at the Záhony station (neither MÁV nor Ukrainian Railways can issue international tickets going in either direction for some reason), I had my passport checked by Hungarian immigration while I was boarding the train. The lady scanned it through a handheld computer (it took her a few tries to get it working), then gave me my exit stamp and let me board. There was no customs check of my baggage.

I came back yesterday. When my train arrived in Záhony, Hungarian immigration came aboard to check our passports. The guy scanned my passport through his handheld computer (again taking a few tries to get it to work), then stamped my passport. No questions asked at all. His colleague did a (very) brief check of my bag, but it took all of thirty seconds (they were just checking for cigarettes, alcohol or anything they could collect duties on). From arriving in Záhony to the customs check, I was off the train and back on Hungarian soil in ten minutes.

It was actually Ukrainian immigration that gave me way more scrutiny going in and out. When I went through customs at Chop, the officer who stamped my passport asked me where I was going (I told him Lviv and showed him my ticket), then I got held up after the guy checking my bag found my packet of phenibut. He asked me if it was hashish, I told him no, and he and his colleagues spent ten minutes Googling phenibut on their phones to find out what it was before sending me on my way. (Given that phenibut was invented in the Soviet Union, I thought it was really funny.) I think I was saved in part by the facts that I was wearing a suit and my passport lists my birthplace (New York), so they assumed I had money and were more likely to shake me down for a bribe than arrest me.

On my way back to Hungary, while going through Ukrainian customs, they did another search of my bag (ignoring the phenibut this time around), asked me where else I'd been in the country (I said only Lviv), and asked me how long I'd been in country (five days).

Moral of the story: Hungarians really like us Americans. Ukrainians? Not so much.

Other notes:

1. The Záhony/Chop border crossing doesn't seem to get a lot of traffic, particularly non-Hungarian/Ukrainian traffic. Foreigners stand out and attract attention. When I went back through Chop, one of the Ukrainian immigration officers recognized me, and the tiny little trains that MÁV and UR use to ferry people across the border were half-empty both times I used them. Additionally, when I was in line for Ukrainian customs coming back, this gross old Gypsy woman with a mustache tried begging me for money.

2. Aside from the immigration officials, the workers at the Chop station don't speak any English. Learn a little Ukrainian and have your translation software ready on your phone.

3. Tickets from Záhony to Chop (and vice versa) are handwritten by the station cashier instead of being printed out by the computer. I have no idea why, but it might explain why you can't buy them online.

4. Chop is a massive shithole. Záhony is significantly nicer.

5. There are no services in Chop aside from a hotel (I think) and a couple of vending machines outside the station. I don't even think there's an ATM, so when you're coming back to Hungary, remember to bring some cash for the Chop/Záhony ticket in case your card doesn't work (my cards seemed to work hit-or-miss in Ukraine for whatever reason). The cost of the ticket is 82.50 UAH.

Záhony has more services, but none of them are located near the station, so you're looking at a bit of a hike if you need anything. For some reason, there's a room full of Soviet memorabilia (including a huge painting of Lenin) in the station itself. The room was locked both times I was there, and their cafe was also closed both times. The only vending machine is a coffee one.

6. Ukrainian Railways SUCKS in terms of services and comfort: the trains are Soviet-era models with no AC and really uncomfortable seats. MÁV's trains are a lot better, with modern seats, WiFi, AC and electric plugs. Buy something to eat in either Budapest or Lviv 'cause you won't be getting anything else along the way.

7. At the Chop station, there are a bunch of taxi drivers who will pester you. There weren't any in Záhony for whatever reason.

8. The Chop station bathroom (as well as the Lviv station and both Keleti and Nyugati in Budapest) charge money. The Záhony station bathroom is free.

^, if you entered Hungary in January until April, how many days did you spend in EU in the first place? Did you spend 89 days in Hungary and then went to Lviv for 5 days and come back to Hungary again?

My friend just used the loophole in Hungary yesterday.

He went into EU via Hungary and exited from there as well. He stayed 89 days, he said there was no problem. It worked.