Post: #1

First time poster here.

I've been researching ESL teaching for the past month, and I've pretty much decided on China. I have several (dozens) of job offers and more come in every day. I've tried to make an educated decision on which city I want to call home for the next year, based on factors such as population, air quality, cost of living, and most importantly, food and women.

I've read as many data sheets as possible, but if anyone is currently living or traveling in China, your thoughts would be of great use. I think I've ruled out Beijing, Shenzhen and Shanghai due to pollution and cost. Also, I was pretty high on Kunming before I read a study showing up to 60% of the population could suffer from lead poisoning...does anyone know about Xi'an, Chengdu, Nanjing...really anywhere. Christ there are a lot of big cities in China.

Post: #2

I've heard Shanghai is the best for food and women.

Read the Chinabounder blog - it's old now but notorious - he got a LOT of haters! All he did was teach English, eat great food and fuck lots of young Chinese women. It's a fun read:

http://chinabounder.blogspot.com/

Post: #3

(12-05-2013 12:26 AM)Vendetta Wrote:  I've heard Shanghai is the best for food and women.

Read the Chinabounder blog - it's old now but notorious - he got a LOT of haters! All he did was teach English, eat great food and fuck lots of young Chinese women. It's a fun read:

http://chinabounder.blogspot.com/

True, I don't think you can beat the sheer volume of opportunities to meet women based on its population. I don't want to sound so indecisive, but Shanghai is also saturated with foreigners and I want to transition to private tutoring at some point rather than a 30-40 hour school job. That's the reason why lesser known cities appealed to me. Too bad none of these agents offer a Tour de China option where you teach in a different city every month.

Post: #4

I was in Nanjing a couple weeks ago, along with some other cities in China. Beijing is indeed polluted, so is Shanghai, and so was Nanjing when I was there.

I'm not so sure about Shenzhen and pollution, just due to geography. I've been there twice and the weather was great and no pollution, but I guess you can just pull data online.

Shenzhen and the other 2 big cities in that region (Guangzhou, Dongguan) are pretty much all people from elsewhere in China -- it's rare to find someone actually born and raised in those cities, since they barely existed 20 years ago.

Nanjing wasn't bad. It's a sizable city, but the central part is easy to get around. As a foreigner, I got more looks from people there than in Shanghai or Beijing, since it's not a haven for foreigners. That said, there's a bunch of universities, and also a minor contingent of foreign students from all over. You can choose to join them or avoid them -- it just depends on where you go out.

Also look at the year-round weather in each city you're considering. A place like Shenzhen is a lot warmer than Beijing for example.

Post: #5

Im in the same situation as sweet pea. Any suggestions on a city in China to teach English let us know. Im taking in account low pollution, exotic factor, nightlife, etc..

Post: #6

(12-05-2013 12:10 AM)Sweet Pea Wrote:  First time poster here.

I've been researching ESL teaching for the past month, and I've pretty much decided on China. I have several (dozens) of job offers and more come in every day. I've tried to make an educated decision on which city I want to call home for the next year, based on factors such as population, air quality, cost of living, and most importantly, food and women.

I've read as many data sheets as possible, but if anyone is currently living or traveling in China, your thoughts would be of great use. I think I've ruled out Beijing, Shenzhen and Shanghai due to pollution and cost. Also, I was pretty high on Kunming before I read a study showing up to 60% of the population could suffer from lead poisoning...does anyone know about Xi'an, Chengdu, Nanjing...really anywhere. Christ there are a lot of big cities in China.

It looks like you are looking for somewhere off the beaten track, far away from industrial centers that create pollution. Cost of living in these less developed areas should be substantially lower and population could still be in the millions.

There is great food everywhere.

The toughest part my be narrowing down which area has the most beautiful women. Chinese people can vary in appearance significantly from province to province. In general, Chinese women are not very good looking, but there are regions that are exceptions.

Good luck.

I'm going to bow out of the discussion now, because all the areas of China that I know anything about don't meet your criteria.

Post: #7

Spent several hours studying air quality since last night. The US embassy in Beijing recently reported fine particulate levels so high that their instruments weren't able to measure them accurately, upwards of 40x the acceptable limits of the WHO. Almost anywhere on the coast of China from Shanghai all the way down to the Pearl River Delta Megacity (Shenzhen, Guangzhou, etc.) is going to have pretty bad pollution. Haikou and Hainan island are fantastic, and I'm sure smaller cities along the coast are better than larger ones. That being said, Beijing's awful air quality is supposedly due to pollution from neighboring cities and not Beijing proper.

Southwestern, western and Northern cities like Kunming, Lhasa, Chengdu and Xi'an have slightly better air than out east, but this is relative and not comparable to cleaner western cities. At the same time, unless you have respiratory disorders it shouldn't be a problem. I'm not too sure about Northeastern cities in Manchuria, like Dalian. Apparently the vast majority of pollution comes from coal burning, which is the case for all of the developing world. So obviously winter months are much more heavily polluted than wetter summer months. (Fun fact- Beijing uses cloud seeding to induce rainfall to alleviate smog problems. For shits and giggles, check out Google image search to look up smog/clear photos of the same locations in the city. It's pretty unbelievable.)

As for food, Shenzhen and Guangzhou are in Canton, which have food that is similar to what is served in Chinese restaurants all over the world. Of course it isn't identical, but keep that in mind. Having never been to China, I would assume that one could find restaurants catering to all 8 of China's regional cuisines no matter what city you go to. However, other cuisines such as Shaanxi (Xi'an) and Sichuan sound more exotic and appetizing to me, featuring less deep-fried and sauteed food.

Personally, I am leaning towards Xi'an and Chengdu now. The cost of living in Xi'an is almost half of what it is in Shanghai, and the population is still about 8 million people. There is supposedly a large Muslim quarter, and the Terracotta Army is also located here. I wouldn't say the province is as beautiful as say Yunnan or Hainan Island, but it is mountainous and still much different from where I live (Baltimore/DC metro).

If anyone is living in Xi'an right now, hit me up.

Suits and Vendetta, thanks for the input.

Post: #8

I stayed in Shenzhen a few months last year and found it to be awesome. My friend I went out there to visit is still living there teaching ESL and loving it. Its nice cause its like 30 mins away from Hong Kong for when you have to visa runs. Tons of hot girls from all over the world there for whatever reason. The weather was nice. I didn't notice the pollution being much worse then anywhere else in Asia I have been.

Post: #9

What about Vietnam? I've almost decided on esl myself for a year to see if I like it enough to do it longer and for a break from the oil patch. The pay in Vietnam seems decent and the cost of living is low.

Post: #10

(12-05-2013 05:56 PM)Montana Wrote:  What about Vietnam? I've almost decided on esl myself for a year to see if I like it enough to do it longer and for a break from the oil patch. The pay in Vietnam seems decent and the cost of living is low.

I would like to learn Mandarin, but yes I have considered Vietnam, Thailand and Indonesia. Korea and Japan aren't really on my radar...not sure why but they don't really appeal to me. Where are you trying to teach in Vietnam? I've also noticed a lot of positions in SEA are in smaller cities, outside of Bangkok and Hanoi.

Post: #11

Having lived in alot of the major cities here and every one that you've mentioned so far I will tell you this. Your first year its nearly impossible to find a job in the south without some experience. So if you are smart you'll go up to XINJIANG - Urumqi, for your first stint. Join EF or Pattison or some bullsh1t up there. Corporate schools usually suck ass but you'll get your experience that you need teaching kids, it is very very important that you learn to teach children, discipline and control them. You will be judged on your ability to control a classroom and get respect from them. Watch as many 'Dog Trainer/Whisperer' type shows as you can find on TV because its the exact same thing when you are teaching kids. A good role model would Seargent Hartman from Full Metal Jacket, I'm NOT kidding.

Don't get roped into this bs about how the kids are cute and the people are friendly 'and want to learn english', thats pure BS. The kids are little bastards and will try and make your life a living hell if you don't know how to deal with them. The adults will do their best to stab you in the back after the initial 'honeymoon' period is over. You must realize that you are an entertainer, this is not 'true' teaching, if there even is such a thing. If you become boring to the students, you will be replaced, period. Game can only take you so far when teaching adults and you will be endlessly cockblocked by manginas and white knights, for some reason, whom are all attracted to teaching and think its some sort of prestigious career choice. You will rarely make friends unless you are very PC or gay friendly, there are alot of feminists here as their degrees are useless for pretty much everything else. There are three types of Western women in China.

1. Prostitutes
2. Fat, Frigid, Fugly ass Feminists
3. Students, who are usually fat and fugly or become so after a yearlong stint without male contact.

They get 0 attention from males, and every single one of them is bitter and has the exact same complaint. Chinese girls fawn over western men and they hate it. They will be more than happy to tell you about it when you deny them access to your d1ck. They all either go home or exist in China to escape the societal pressures of being fat, fugly and boyfriend-less at home. Most will claim after some short period of time that they are actually gay/bi and sex Chinese girls.. this is entirely bvllshit.

Chinese food, pretty much all over China is the same, it sucks, its disgusting and there is very little redeemable about it. The Chinese food restaurants in North America don't serve this slop k? Most of that food is VIETNAMESE... whomever told you that American food is Catonese food is a liar. I went to Guangzhou thinking the exact same thing and when I dug into a Cantonese buffet I was quickly brought up to speed. Mostly everything here is made exclusively out of salt... its like munching on blocks of salt. I use to love eating American Chinese food... I would go to a buffet every week, sometimes twice or three times. I HATE Chinese food in China with a passion, its oily, salty, at times slimey, and almost always DISGUSTING. The taste varies from gross to inedible, I think I can count on one hand the number of dishes I can eat after visiting 10 or so provinces. They use something here called GUTTER OIL to cook it with, google that.

NOW, Xinjiang is an entirely different animal. The food up there is NOT Chinese food but it IS fantastic. Everything I ate up there was good, I never went hungry, not even once. Why? That's where all the muslim Chinese hail from and their cooking is out of sight! The pay is fairly low but its more than enough to live on and the women are really decent people. The Chinese also don't have as many bad habits up that way as they recently had a big fight. (I can't go into details or I'll get a knock on my door).

In a 2nd tier city, don't accept anything less than 10,000 with the exception of Urumqi or the outlying cities and provinces (dalian, hainan, lanzhou). A first tier city you should be looking at 13,000 for the bare minimum. A 3rd tier city will probably pay around 8 to 9000 per month. Try not to get a school provided apartment as it will be sh1t and they will use it against you later on. Have them hook up an independent apartment where you deal with your own rent/utilities, that way if you change schools, they can't yank it out from under you... and yes they will. You will hear alot of horror stories from China, most if not all are true. The 'unseen' culture here is incredible and very frightening. Chinese have a strange habit of stabbing people in the back, its generally why no foreigner has many Chinese friends, and you should really question the ones that do. Chinese also LOVE to play political games in an office and will have people spying on you and reporting back from DAY 1. Having been here several years and worked at plenty of schools, I can tell you, it goes on almost everywhere. When Chinese need you, they will lavish you with attention and be seemingly greatful for everything, when they have a choice, they will be extremely harsh and non-commital. You will meet alot of guys here you initially think are nuts or 'jaded' until you understand what Chinese and China really is. I'll give you an example, I tried to leave a school once when my contract was completed, they said they liked me and I was a good teacher and that if I tried to leave they would sue me and throw me out of China. Then they showed me the contract where they had signed my name for me and said that they already sent it into the government. So you think I should go to the government and complain right? Wrong, imagine Mexico x 10. (Can't say anything bad or someone will knock at my door)


Chinese don't like it when a foreigner speaks fluent Chinese, be very aware of this. They like it when you can speak like a baby but they detest anyone that truly understands their language.

Why am I here? I'm married to one. I spend my days inside my home or over at a friends house and very rarely do any of us venture outside. There are quite a few horrible things that you don't know about in China. Lookup http://www.chinasmack.com
I'm not sure if you are familiar with this but the Chinese are EXTREMELY rude people and they are either too stupid or too ignorant to acknowledge it.

Their culture works something like this: Someone does something terribly rude to someone else but no one will call them out on it. If you step in and say something then you lose face and the rude person loses face. So now you have a culture of extremely rude people all walking around and doing whatever they like because the polite people allow them to do so. If you try and point this out, you will be publicly ostracized by the group and people will deny even seeing you. How does this factor into your stay in China? Well when someone either blatantly lies to you, steps in front of you in a line up, p1sses or sh1ts openly on a street corner (usually into a garbage bin) or blows their nose into your soup or on your shoes (northern provinces), you are not allowed to say anything. If you are trying to enter a cab and someone runs and jumps in the other side, you are not allowed to say "Hey WTF? I got here first". So pretty much, unless you are a rude, arrogant, prick, this will drive you up the wall.

If I could do it over again, I would never have left Korea. I highly recommend you go there or Japan FIRST. If you are still interested after reading this then PM me because my wife is also a recruiter and we can help you line up a job.

There is a reason that people from HK and Taiwan don't like the mainlanders.

Oh and welcome to the club : http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTQ1NDYwODA=.html

Post: #12

This is the best post I've ever read on this forum. BadWolf - would love to hear how you approach game in China, also if you changed your strategy once you became more fluent? Can you expand on why they don't ike oif you speak fluently? In every language where i attained fluency it opened up another dimension of oportunies (esp the kind we are all after) and my 50 words spoken with wrong intonation already get me love. Is it that they think it will put us ahead of them because you hsve neutralized the dudes competitive advantage?

To add my 2 cents: try to find a place that: has decent rental costs, ie avoid shang, shen, guang, beijing, has lowish polution, never drink topwater and if possible don't brush your teeth or cook with.

Post: #13

(12-05-2013 08:14 PM)BadWolf Wrote:  Having lived in alot of the major cities here and every one that you've mentioned so far I will tell you this. Your first year its nearly impossible to find a job in the south without some experience. So if you are smart you'll go up to XINJIANG - Urumqi, for your first stint. Join EF or Pattison or some bullsh1t up there. Corporate schools usually suck ass but you'll get your experience that you need teaching kids, it is very very important that you learn to teach children, discipline and control them. You will be judged on your ability to control a classroom and get respect from them. Watch as many 'Dog Trainer/Whisperer' type shows as you can find on TV because its the exact same thing when you are teaching kids. A good role model would Seargent Hartman from Full Metal Jacket, I'm NOT kidding.

Don't get roped into this bs about how the kids are cute and the people are friendly 'and want to learn english', thats pure BS. The kids are little bastards and will try and make your life a living hell if you don't know how to deal with them. The adults will do their best to stab you in the back after the initial 'honeymoon' period is over. You must realize that you are an entertainer, this is not 'true' teaching, if there even is such a thing. If you become boring to the students, you will be replaced, period. Game can only take you so far when teaching adults and you will be endlessly cockblocked by manginas and white knights, for some reason, whom are all attracted to teaching and think its some sort of prestigious career choice. You will rarely make friends unless you are very PC or gay friendly, there are alot of feminists here as their degrees are useless for pretty much everything else. There are three types of Western women in China.

1. Prostitutes
2. Fat, Frigid, Fugly ass Feminists
3. Students, who are usually fat and fugly or become so after a yearlong stint without male contact.

They get 0 attention from males, and every single one of them is bitter and has the exact same complaint. Chinese girls fawn over western men and they hate it. They will be more than happy to tell you about it when you deny them access to your d1ck. They all either go home or exist in China to escape the societal pressures of being fat, fugly and boyfriend-less at home. Most will claim after some short period of time that they are actually gay/bi and sex Chinese girls.. this is entirely bvllshit.

Chinese food, pretty much all over China is the same, it sucks, its disgusting and there is very little redeemable about it. The Chinese food restaurants in North America don't serve this slop k? Most of that food is VIETNAMESE... whomever told you that American food is Catonese food is a liar. I went to Guangzhou thinking the exact same thing and when I dug into a Cantonese buffet I was quickly brought up to speed. Mostly everything here is made exclusively out of salt... its like munching on blocks of salt. I use to love eating American Chinese food... I would go to a buffet every week, sometimes twice or three times. I HATE Chinese food in China with a passion, its oily, salty, at times slimey, and almost always DISGUSTING. The taste varies from gross to inedible, I think I can count on one hand the number of dishes I can eat after visiting 10 or so provinces. They use something here called GUTTER OIL to cook it with, google that.

NOW, Xinjiang is an entirely different animal. The food up there is NOT Chinese food but it IS fantastic. Everything I ate up there was good, I never went hungry, not even once. Why? That's where all the muslim Chinese hail from and their cooking is out of sight! The pay is fairly low but its more than enough to live on and the women are really decent people. The Chinese also don't have as many bad habits up that way as they recently had a big fight. (I can't go into details or I'll get a knock on my door).

In a 2nd tier city, don't accept anything less than 10,000 with the exception of Urumqi or the outlying cities and provinces (dalian, hainan, lanzhou). A first tier city you should be looking at 13,000 for the bare minimum. A 3rd tier city will probably pay around 8 to 9000 per month. Try not to get a school provided apartment as it will be sh1t and they will use it against you later on. Have them hook up an independent apartment where you deal with your own rent/utilities, that way if you change schools, they can't yank it out from under you... and yes they will. You will hear alot of horror stories from China, most if not all are true. The 'unseen' culture here is incredible and very frightening. Chinese have a strange habit of stabbing people in the back, its generally why no foreigner has many Chinese friends, and you should really question the ones that do. Chinese also LOVE to play political games in an office and will have people spying on you and reporting back from DAY 1. Having been here several years and worked at plenty of schools, I can tell you, it goes on almost everywhere. When Chinese need you, they will lavish you with attention and be seemingly greatful for everything, when they have a choice, they will be extremely harsh and non-commital. You will meet alot of guys here you initially think are nuts or 'jaded' until you understand what Chinese and China really is. I'll give you an example, I tried to leave a school once when my contract was completed, they said they liked me and I was a good teacher and that if I tried to leave they would sue me and throw me out of China. Then they showed me the contract where they had signed my name for me and said that they already sent it into the government. So you think I should go to the government and complain right? Wrong, imagine Mexico x 10. (Can't say anything bad or someone will knock at my door)


Chinese don't like it when a foreigner speaks fluent Chinese, be very aware of this. They like it when you can speak like a baby but they detest anyone that truly understands their language.

Why am I here? I'm married to one. I spend my days inside my home or over at a friends house and very rarely do any of us venture outside. There are quite a few horrible things that you don't know about in China. Lookup http://www.chinasmack.com
I'm not sure if you are familiar with this but the Chinese are EXTREMELY rude people and they are either too stupid or too ignorant to acknowledge it.

Their culture works something like this: Someone does something terribly rude to someone else but no one will call them out on it. If you step in and say something then you lose face and the rude person loses face. So now you have a culture of extremely rude people all walking around and doing whatever they like because the polite people allow them to do so. If you try and point this out, you will be publicly ostracized by the group and people will deny even seeing you. How does this factor into your stay in China? Well when someone either blatantly lies to you, steps in front of you in a line up, p1sses or sh1ts openly on a street corner (usually into a garbage bin) or blows their nose into your soup or on your shoes (northern provinces), you are not allowed to say anything. If you are trying to enter a cab and someone runs and jumps in the other side, you are not allowed to say "Hey WTF? I got here first". So pretty much, unless you are a rude, arrogant, prick, this will drive you up the wall.

If I could do it over again, I would never have left Korea. I highly recommend you go there or Japan FIRST. If you are still interested after reading this then PM me because my wife is also a recruiter and we can help you line up a job.

There is a reason that people from HK and Taiwan don't like the mainlanders.

Oh and welcome to the club : http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTQ1NDYwODA=.html

I call bullshit on your view of Chinese food. I'm an ABC who grew up eating "Chinese food" served in the U.S. The non-authentic stuff is full of salt and msg and is usually deep fried as fuck. What is this lie about vietnamese people running chinese takeout joints in America? Most americanized chinese restaurants are indeed run by Chinese people - usually people from Fujian and Guangzhou. Dude, vietnamese people are not so stupid as to run a Chinese joint in America - they are too busy serving pho to white liberals and making higher margins on it.

And real Chinese food in China is not bad. There are like 8 different regional cuisines rolled into one. The variety is truly endless. Yes, they do use lots of oil, salt, and msg. But a lot of asian food is like that (minus Japanese food).

Post: #14

Badwolf. Nice to see you back on the board. Your posts are always gold.

Post: #15

(12-05-2013 08:14 PM)BadWolf Wrote:  Chinese food, pretty much all over China is the same, it sucks, its disgusting and there is very little redeemable about it. The Chinese food restaurants in North America don't serve this slop k? Most of that food is VIETNAMESE... whomever told you that American food is Catonese food is a liar. I went to Guangzhou thinking the exact same thing and when I dug into a Cantonese buffet I was quickly brought up to speed. Mostly everything here is made exclusively out of salt... its like munching on blocks of salt. I use to love eating American Chinese food... I would go to a buffet every week, sometimes twice or three times. I HATE Chinese food in China with a passion, its oily, salty, at times slimey, and almost always DISGUSTING. The taste varies from gross to inedible, I think I can count on one hand the number of dishes I can eat after visiting 10 or so provinces. They use something here called GUTTER OIL to cook it with, google that.

I remember your presence in this forum, and although you do touch on some significant points, you've always displayed this arrogant, negative attitude towards the Chinese.

I'm not saying that the Chinese people are the most valorous of the world, but your absolutist viewpoint is brimming with flaws. What is it that they say? If you're the only one complaining, then the problem is probably YOU, not them.

If I recall correctly, you've mentioned that you've learned ZERO Chinese despite having lived in China and being married to a Chinese wife. This should automatically net ZERO respect to anyone in this forum. Even when I end up in a country where I have 0 interest in learning the language, I still actively pick up some word for courtesy. Thanks for fitting the bill of being "a typical American/Westerner".

That will be my sole character comment.

On to the food.

Quote:Chinese food, pretty much all over China is the same

Idiotic comment. I can't even begin explaining this. Check the Wikipedia article for starters.

Quote:I HATE Chinese food in China with a passion, its oily, salty, at times slimey, and almost always DISGUSTING. The taste varies from gross to inedible, I think I can count on one hand the number of dishes I can eat after visiting 10 or so provinces.

I'm guessing you've only eaten at shitty roadside restaurants.

I don't go near that oily crap unlike you. A lot of people talk about Chinese food being oily and fried. Sure, there are regions that specialize in this type of food, but ain't it funny that 95% of the time I eat Chinese food, it ain't this crap?

Let's see.
- various Dim sum dishes
- Hainan Chicken Rice
- various steamed vegetables
- Xiaolong Bao
- various congee
- roast duck
- fish maw soup
- various herbal soups

When I think of the Chinese food I eat, the main method of cooking is STEAMING, which is quite the healthy cooking method.

It's funny because you're the only person in this forum who has this hate for Chinese food. There's numerous out there who are open advocates.

Go back to your Subway and your preconceived notions based on the shitty landmarks you frequent.

Oh, and your cultural and business remarks.

I might write a longer post on this on the other thread you posted in, but I'll leave a couple of quick comments here.

The trash throwing, the spitting, the chaotic driving, the crassness, etc. Yes, I hate this, but unlike you, I don't bitch about this and get caught up with selection bias in characterizing the entire culture. I accept this and don't overlook the historical context from which this grew.

You mention that the Chinese are backstabbers.

Haha. Oh man. Sounds like you don't understand the game of GuanXi.

Sorry, but in Chinese culture, loyalty is only reserved for those that count the most. I'm sorry that in the Western culture of yours, such an elitist concept is too uncivilized in your mental framework.

Accept this and play the game. And you win. Bitch about it. And voilà, you attract all the losses.

Do the Chinese skimp on the quality of products?

Yes.

But guess which side of the story you're missing?

You're missing the stupid Westerner who nickle and dime the Chinese supplier to virtually zero margin.

You're missing the stupid Westerner who knows nothing about GuanXi, doesn't respect the cultural need and care to build relationships, and verbally assaults the supplier.

Westerners who accept the game and don't actively lambast the culture are the ones who find the success. QC companies such as that run by Renaud Anjoran understand this. The Elevator Life guys understand this. Successful joint ventures understand this.

__________

Look. There are a shit-ton of things about Chinese culture that frankly piss me off. I am not the biggest fan and have my own set of grievances.

But can you really blame them?

It's not easy taking care of a country with 1.3 billion people. Many people seem to overlook this.

It's not easy to build your country back up in 70 years from oblivion WITHOUT bumping into environmental externalities.

It's not easy to learn fucking ethics under these conditions especially when you've still got so many people living hand to mouth.

I'm sorry the Chinese had to prioritize certain things over the whiny complaints Westerners are full of.

This ain't America or Western Europe where they got hundreds of years to develop into high standards.

Give credit where it's due.

Post: #16

Ahh Beijing's Chinese defense trolls out in force, come live here for a year and we'll see how fast you change your tune. Find me ONE foreigner in China who has been here long term and likes it and I'll show you a pedophile/ex-convict/scumbag/weirdo. I've yet to meet one LAOWAI who isn't a self obsessed nut bag, who actually digs China. The rest are trying to get back home with their wives. Let me guess, you are half Chinese or you're a business guy who has 'done some travelling in China'? Its different when you live here and your eyes aren't slanted.

I'm married to the mob, I get to see all the sh1t firsthand and no I don't speak Chinese, no interest in learning. Usually, you learn an language because you want to talk to people, here the only time I'm talking to people is because they've done something incredibly rude or stupid.

I speak Spanish, Japanese and Portuguese and I've lived in Mexico, Japan and Brazil. I've lived in China the longest and don't care to ever learn ANY of their language.

You try and speak Chinese to a Chinese person and he'll look at you with his mouth agape.. then go "Shawma?". You can say it in a near perfect accent and they will still give you that same brainless stare and pretend not to understand, then wave a hand infront of your face.

And guy I know ALL about GuanXi. Why don't you just say connections, bribery and law breaking corruption because that's exactly what that is. People keep mentioning the Elevator Life guys, man those guys live in Zhujiang NewTown, the least Chinese part of GZ. They make 100's of thousands of dollars per month, I'm just a regular guy living in REGULAR, middle class, China. I'm sure life is pretty awesome in America for Zuckerdude owner of facebook who doesn't have to worry about putting food on the table at night or having a child in a middle of the road health system.
For the average person, life in China is HARD...

Here you want some personal experience: Recently, I had low potassium from diahrea. I had such low levels that I was blacking out. I went to the hospital and the nurse and doctor told me it would cost me 140 rmb for one night... no problem. They just needed a quick 5000 rmb deposit which I could get back the next day. My wife gladly paid it because she was worried. Later on that night, they said they couldn't figure out what was wrong, then after an xray, told me I was having a heart attack and needed surgery or I would die. They told me it would only cost 80 to 150,000 rmb but I was risking death. I had 5 doctors come and look at me and was placed beside several people in a heart ward. The next day a specialist came to see me and told me that my death was imminent and they pumped me up with all sorts of medicines. Something seemed fishy to me so I told them I was leaving and to take the IVs out. Well all of a sudden there were two nurses holding me down on the bed and telling me I couldn't leave, period. I said, no I'm the one paying! They said, they would need someone else's signature, I told them to get my wife, they said she was no longer allowed in to see me. When I threatened to call the police they balked a little but left me in the bed and I could hear my wife yelling at the hospital doors. My wife DID infact call the police and all of sudden I was released and had a nurse begrudingly pull out my IVs. We went to get the deposit back and found that 4000 RMB had already been used up for 'medicines'. A day later I went to the Cardio Hospital in GZ and after one day and 300 rmb they told me nothing was wrong with me, gave me an 8 rmb Potassium pill to take and I felt fine the next day.

Apparently, I learned from a Chinese doctor, hospitals here have a qouta of surgeries to fill and they have to get so many patients under the knife or they risk losing their jobs.

So, do I want to risk having a baby in this system?

HELL NO. Do foreigners want to risk having families in this system? Only if they are rich but then why not just go home?

No amount of money can make up for poor character! You can't disagree with me on this one guy, you get sick and you are fvcked no matter how much money you have. When you can't trust a DOCTOR to tell you the truth, who can you trust?

OP, the question you should be asking yourself is, if life is so golden in China, why is there such a high turnover rate for seemingly easy teaching jobs? If you think I'm lying go look over my initial posts about China, they are rosy and I'm encouraging others to come here and FYI Beijing hires people to troll the net and challenge foreigners who write things about China.

Post: #17

I've just been to China for a couple of months, but can confirm that Chinese food is crap. Loved the food in Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, basically everywhere in Asia besides China. Oily, salty, shitty stuff all over the place unless you pay a lot.

Post: #18

Well you can find girls in any Chinese city, that's not really a basis for choosing.

Really it comes down to climate more than anything. If you hate being cold, don't go to Beijing! Come to think of it most of China gets cold in Winter. Shanghai in January was horrible, but it wasn't even below freezing. Dry air makes it feel a lot colder than it was.

I spent 4 months in Guangzhou earlier this year. This is a massively overpopulated city and it rains a lot. Well I went mad there, but I can't fault the quality of the women.

Shenzhen has more single ladies though, mostly because the ladies here are the alpha of the alpha females of China and they can't find any alpha males.

Central China has the hottest women, if you can put up with living in frontier territory. It's pretty much foreigner-free. Draw a triangle from Chongqing, Wuhan to Changsha and you'll find it contains the world's hottest women.

Now I'm in Thailand and I realise that the food in China was terrible. The main problem in China is food quality. One day I went in the supermarket to buy a pepper, picked one up and put my thumb through it - yeuch. Compare that to Lotus in Bangkok - amazing quality of food. Food safety is also a problem in China.

Having said that, the quality of ladies in China was A, here in Bangkok it's C- at best [talking more about ladies with long term potential, of course Bkk is good for a bang].

Post: #19

Thanks a lot for you extremely accurate reports on China and the Chinese BadWolf. For most foreigners who have lived in China long term, your post are so true.

Post: #20

(12-05-2013 06:24 PM)Sweet Pea Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 05:56 PM)Montana Wrote:  What about Vietnam? I've almost decided on esl myself for a year to see if I like it enough to do it longer and for a break from the oil patch. The pay in Vietnam seems decent and the cost of living is low.

I would like to learn Mandarin, but yes I have considered Vietnam, Thailand and Indonesia. Korea and Japan aren't really on my radar...not sure why but they don't really appeal to me. Where are you trying to teach in Vietnam? I've also noticed a lot of positions in SEA are in smaller cities, outside of Bangkok and Hanoi.

I would plan on doing the Celta course in either Saigon or Hanoi..or even kicking around the idea of taking it in the Ukraine. Korea seems to be the path of least resistance for most folks..but from what I've read and heard from people is that its not all that great when compared to SEA countries or even "some" parts of China. Vietnam pays the best in SEA, but I would obviously prefer the Philippines or Indonesia.

Post: #21

(12-06-2013 12:55 AM)BadWolf Wrote:  Ahh Beijing's Chinese defense trolls out in force, come live here for a year and we'll see how fast you change your tune. Find me ONE foreigner in China who has been here long term and likes it and I'll show you a pedophile/ex-convict/scumbag/weirdo. I've yet to meet one LAOWAI who isn't a self obsessed nut bag, who actually digs China. The rest are trying to get back home with their wives. Let me guess, you are half Chinese or you're a business guy who has 'done some travelling in China'? Its different when you live here and your eyes aren't slanted.

I'm married to the mob, I get to see all the sh1t firsthand and no I don't speak Chinese, no interest in learning. Usually, you learn an language because you want to talk to people, here the only time I'm talking to people is because they've done something incredibly rude or stupid.

I speak Spanish, Japanese and Portuguese and I've lived in Mexico, Japan and Brazil. I've lived in China the longest and don't care to ever learn ANY of their language.

You try and speak Chinese to a Chinese person and he'll look at you with his mouth agape.. then go "Shawma?". You can say it in a near perfect accent and they will still give you that same brainless stare and pretend not to understand, then wave a hand infront of your face.

And guy I know ALL about GuanXi. Why don't you just say connections, bribery and law breaking corruption because that's exactly what that is. People keep mentioning the Elevator Life guys, man those guys live in Zhujiang NewTown, the least Chinese part of GZ. They make 100's of thousands of dollars per month, I'm just a regular guy living in REGULAR, middle class, China. I'm sure life is pretty awesome in America for Zuckerdude owner of facebook who doesn't have to worry about putting food on the table at night or having a child in a middle of the road health system.
For the average person, life in China is HARD...

Here you want some personal experience: Recently, I had low potassium from diahrea. I had such low levels that I was blacking out. I went to the hospital and the nurse and doctor told me it would cost me 140 rmb for one night... no problem. They just needed a quick 5000 rmb deposit which I could get back the next day. My wife gladly paid it because she was worried. Later on that night, they said they couldn't figure out what was wrong, then after an xray, told me I was having a heart attack and needed surgery or I would die. They told me it would only cost 80 to 150,000 rmb but I was risking death. I had 5 doctors come and look at me and was placed beside several people in a heart ward. The next day a specialist came to see me and told me that my death was imminent and they pumped me up with all sorts of medicines. Something seemed fishy to me so I told them I was leaving and to take the IVs out. Well all of a sudden there were two nurses holding me down on the bed and telling me I couldn't leave, period. I said, no I'm the one paying! They said, they would need someone else's signature, I told them to get my wife, they said she was no longer allowed in to see me. When I threatened to call the police they balked a little but left me in the bed and I could hear my wife yelling at the hospital doors. My wife DID infact call the police and all of sudden I was released and had a nurse begrudingly pull out my IVs. We went to get the deposit back and found that 4000 RMB had already been used up for 'medicines'. A day later I went to the Cardio Hospital in GZ and after one day and 300 rmb they told me nothing was wrong with me, gave me an 8 rmb Potassium pill to take and I felt fine the next day.

Apparently, I learned from a Chinese doctor, hospitals here have a qouta of surgeries to fill and they have to get so many patients under the knife or they risk losing their jobs.

So, do I want to risk having a baby in this system?

HELL NO. Do foreigners want to risk having families in this system? Only if they are rich but then why not just go home?

No amount of money can make up for poor character! You can't disagree with me on this one guy, you get sick and you are fvcked no matter how much money you have. When you can't trust a DOCTOR to tell you the truth, who can you trust?

OP, the question you should be asking yourself is, if life is so golden in China, why is there such a high turnover rate for seemingly easy teaching jobs? If you think I'm lying go look over my initial posts about China, they are rosy and I'm encouraging others to come here and FYI Beijing hires people to troll the net and challenge foreigners who write things about China.

1. Why did you go to a country and decide to live there for longer than anywhere else if you had no intention of learning the language?

2. Most white expat friends I know who have lived in China have had great reception from the Chinese when they speak their language. They're generally perceived as a novelty, but none of this "shen ma?" crap.

3. I know some expats who hated living in China and conversely some who loved living in China. All of them have lived there in the 2-4 year range. Included in this demographic is a white girl who LOVES China, has lived there for 5 years, and is not a lesbian, feminist, or man hater.

4. Yes, for the average person life in China is HARD. It's a fucking emerging market trying to avoid the middle income trap. Of course life is hard. Life is hard in many countries that people on this forum love touting. The whole point of Roosh V Forums is about arbitraging life, income, skills, and status to places where you get the most return. This often happens in emerging markets. you are not there to be some average person - that would defeat the purpose of being an expat. It is asinine to uproot yourself from a first world country and go there to JOIN the rat race as a an ordinary rat. Don't do that. If it were some first world paradise it would not be easy to get laid, things would not be cheaper, and there would not be more business opportunities. See: Japan, South Korea.

5. Why are you talking about having children and starting families in China? OP is looking to travel, have some fun, make some biz contacts. On a side note, it's ironic you are talking about children and wives on a forum that could not be more bearish on both. Nobody is advocating you have a wife and kid in China. Nobody is advocating you have a wife and kid period.

6. Yes, you are right about hospitals. They are corrupt clusterfucks. I know from personal experience.

I don't mean to knock you too much. But you really do come off as some bitter old man who had some wildly naive expectations about China and got rudely awoken. The irony is that you STILL decided to marry and settle down there. In a country you HATE. And you decided to become dependent on your wife by not learning the language. This on a forum that doesn't really respect any kind of reliance on women. I don't mean to ad hominem, but there's something off about your credibility.

Your posts actually remind me of Chinabounder in the same level of bitterness. This was a guy who was fucking dozens of women and had basically formed his own little harem and he still hated the country. Man, just be a little grateful?

Look, there are many many shitty things about China. As mentioned before, it is a communist country with single party rule that is still struggling to feed 1.2 billion people, the majority of whom are rural and don't have any land rights. Life is immensely difficult because competition for ANYTHING is so fierce. It's certainly useful to warn people about all the awful things that come with such living conditions. But show a little humility and respect to a country in which you are admittedly a foreigner. It's not good for anybody on this forum for you to be a holier-than-thou, arrogant ugly american. That reflects negatively on the rest of us.

Post: #22

I want to echo SHANbang's post by stating that other forum members, who I PM with regularly, share my very strong appreciation of the quality content that BadWolf has offered in specific details and great stories regarding his experiences in China.

I, and I think SHANbang, are concerned with the very specific tone of BadWolf's posts about China.

I've definitely been that negative about China from time to time. I've got my own stories about bad experiences that I've had that despite being very upsetting to me, pale in comparison with what Badwolf shared about his horrifying hospital visit. And even so, there have been times when I've wanted nothing to do with the place and taken a long break from the country. The place can be very hard on your soul.

Badwolf has every right to be pissed. The Chinese people can be truly evil and often are.

That being said, there are positives that balance this out. Personally, as speaker of effectively mediocre Chinese, I've very much benefitted from my language abilities. One of the hardest things I've experienced in China was not being in able to speak the language.

At the time, I didn't realize how hard it was hitting me, until I learned to communicate more effectively and felt a huge weight lifted from my shoulders.

Living in China does suck. But there can be a lot of suckage or a little suckage, depending on how you play your cards and how lucky you are

When I have some free moments, I'm going to contribute a datasheet with info on how to chose a city for maximum contentedness.

There WILL BE bad moments you'll have to experience if you move to China. There is a real possibility that if you take the right approach, the good could outweigh the bad, over several years.

Regardless, I commend Badwolf for staying committed to his wife, despite not enjoying being in China and want to wish him the best of luck. I anticipate that we'll meet up sooner of later, if he is willing.

Post: #23

Theres a huge difference between "mainland China" and the trifecta of China- Hong Kong, Shanghai, Taipei (w/Beijing thrown in a distant 4th).

China isn't for everybody and Badwolf highlights some of the worst aspects of the culture.

Food quality is piss-poor, usually swimming in oil and heavily salted. Only recently did hygenie and safety even enter the minds of most Chinese.

The Mao cultural revolution basically made a nation of poorly educated hicks w/piss-poor manners, huge fear of authority and lack of communal bonds.

I'll drop some stories at a later time...

Post: #24

Looking back, my own tone was a bit harsh. In my defense, I generally get irritated when one person claims to be the authority on a country of 1.3 billion people. But yeah, I get Bad Wolf had some really awful experiences and I truly do sympathize.

Post: #25

Hey OP, would you be able to share some info on how and from where you are getting all these job offers flooding in? And also what they include? It would be interesting to compare to the other teaching opportunities in Asia, i.e. Korea, Japan, Vietnam.

BTW, I spent a couple weeks in Shanghai earlier this year and it was awesome, if you don't end up being based there at least check it out.

I've had quite a few friends teach in Chengdu and they loved it, it's rumoured to have China's most beautiful women and also a lot of good spicy food if you're into that, however the nightlife not so great.