Post: #276

Lizard -

Well said. That kind of response is exactly why I am on this thread and this forum in general.

Post: #277

(01-03-2014 09:40 PM)hun73r Wrote:  I've seen this threads title a couple of times but only thought of clicking on it today. Its interesting that a lot of us are noticing the same (bad) shit happening from excess drinking. I always drank to be social (where I grew up it was expected) and definitely helped everyone have more sex. But after a few years I'd drink even if no one else was around while watching a movie/ playing video games/ working online. Then it (de)-evolved into getting smashed every night which has continued for years. So great timing on this thread for me too.

I'm in too. Start date 1/3/2014

One of the main reasons I drank at night was because I couldn't sleep. Today I listened to a biohacker's podcast that said 15mg of Melatonin + 300mg of 5-HTP is a potent way to get to sleep (and can induce lucid dreaming). So I picked some up, will report the results.

I have had this exact problem too - I in general have insomnia all the time. Its been like this my whole life. And not insomnia where i'm not tired, but insomnia in that I am tired but I just cannot "turn off." If I go out drinking and come back I cannot fall asleep (unless I am blacked out). Other times, when at home, I would be going to bed and I would lie around and not be able to fall asleep -- I felt tired but I was tense, my mind wouldn't let me sleep. At this point I would toss & turn cursing myself and eventually get up and chug down a bunch of wine or a few shots of whiskey. I would then put my head down and drift off within a few minutes. This was great until I realized I was becoming dependent on alcohol to fall asleep, so I realized it was time for the alcohol to go.

I still have a hard time falling sleep. I am thinking about going to the doctor to get sleeping pills but my insomnia has gotten slightly better recently so I am holding off on that.

What has helped me:

--Herbs: I take valerian root extract with melatonin every night. Sometimes I also take 5-HTP, and there have been times that I take Kava-Kava instead of the Valerian root. This helps me relax in general, although I usually still lay in bed for about an hour or two at least before I fall asleep.

-- Medicine. (@ ur own risk ; this is a temporary solution, but if you have something important to do in the morning and you want to make sure you need a good nights rest) I take two pills of benadryl. When I am tired this puts me to sleep, although not immediately. Another thing that has helped is Dramamine, which is the medication for motion sickness. If you decide to go this route make sure that you do NOT get the non-drowsy version, since you are looking to get drowsy. Dramamine works best for me.

The most important thing though, as Lizard wrote, is just having good sleep hygiene. I am very sensitive in that if I go out and sleep in the next day my sleep schedule is destroyed. This is annoying so I have come up with the solutions I mentioned above to try to shortcut my way around this, but really the best thing for you to do is to wake up at the same time everyday, weekends included.

Regarding the Wagon -- My start date was supposed to be January 3rd but I spent New Years sober. This was the first time that I have done so ever since I started drinking. I was at a party - most people were drinking, but I just poured myself some soda & juice. I looked around and saw some people who were wasted and I did not want to be in that state. I saw others who were just enjoying a drink or two and were not wasted, but I decided - whats the point of having that drink? I had a great time. I know Lizard wrote that I may be disappointed later on because I did not get the last drink in, but I did not feel like it. By New Years my mind was already made up. Simply framing the whole situation as "Wow, I'm thankful that I don't have to drink anymore!" rather than "shit, Im giving up drinking?!" changed my whole perspective.

Post: #278

I struggle with insomnia too - battling a bad bout of it at the moment and really struggling to get my rhythm set again. Mostly from being up too late a few nights around New Years.

One thing that has helped me in the past though is reading fiction before bed. Just a suggestion.

If I'm really having a hard time of it then it doesn't work but on most nights it helps me sleep like a baby. Just read until you hit that point where you know you'd crash if you closed your eyes, and then close the book. Don't read past that point though or you'll get caught up in the story and be up all night. lol

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #279

I wasn't going to post, but I may as make it official. I'm in gentlemen. Last drink was hogmanay so start date 1/1/14, I will continue to smoke week occasionally. The main reason I'm quitting is the expense, I went out 3 nights a week last year, and a conservative estimate is half of my income was spent on drinking. Other benefits would be health and a lower % body fat.

The timing is pretty good as many people in Scotland are doing dryathlete for January, which is a charity campaign were participants refrain from drinking for a month. Which shows the kind of drinking culture Scotland has I suppose. My wing is also hubbied up so there should be less pressure to really party hard until he gets the itch.

Will get tougher next month when everyone else begins drinking again. If my wing breaks up with his girl then it'll be challenging to resist what's always an excellent night. Some of my regular drinking buddies are borderline alcoholics so they'll also be a source of pressure. I'll need to switch up my student society's away from my subjects who are usually based around socializing and drinking, to a sport, or possibly a debate, society.

I'm confident I can do this. Looking over my journal last year it's incredible how much I spend on drink. I do really enjoy drinking though, my best nights have been made extra special thanks to booze, although my worst mornings have been made an extra slice of hell thanks to booze. I expect to drink again on hogmanay 2015.

Post: #280

Lizard: Start date is 01/01/14 for me.

I'm in a similar position Statsi. Most of my buddies are hard drinkers, there's a whole culture of glorifying drinking at university, i've made friendships with bartenders and party people both in bars and clubs over the years of partying. I was a big propagator of fine drinking (spent a lot of time and money in only the best high end bars and tried to get my friends to drink pricey/fine cocktails and high end liquor) so for most people around me my decision seems weird.

Went to a friends bday party last night and everyone was quite confused that i didn't drink. Still had fun though, just remain strong and tell people you're not drinking and change the subject they'll back off sooner or later.

But alcohol is alcohol whether it's cheap or expensive, made in huge masses or made with care in smaller quantities. For me the saving money and health issues are nice side benefits. It's really about adjusting to a life without the drug, trying to be comfortable in situations where previously i would have relied on alcohol to feel less anxiety and pressure.

Post: #281

Damn. Tonight was hardgoing. Went to the local to meet a friend for what I thought would be a quiet chat but the bar was packed out. No idea why on a Sunday night but I'm not complaining.

Cute girls in abundance but found it tough to get sets going while sober. Usually I am fine but felt awkward tonight. Kind of kicking myself and was tempted to drink. One random guy even bought drinks for all of us and I had to give mine away.

Real low energy right now. This is going to be tougher than I thought!

Post: #282

Statsi, welcome aboard and I hope you'll post some updates here over time.

It's good to have January as a time during which there is less social pressure -- that will allow you to try out and establish some new habits that you can carry over to the following months when everyone else is done with their little "dryathlete" break.

Post: #283

The melatonin+5-HTP seems to work for putting me to sleep. I do wake up early but still a bit groggy. I see it as an ok temporary solution. I also have some kava-kava which I never took before because mixing with alcohol can cause liver damage. I'll try it out in the next few days though.

Lizard, those are some good points about sleep hacking. I used the artificial sun light last year, may try that again but my apartment gets tons of light even in winter and I take vitamin d-3. Not eating 4-6 hours before sleep would be a tough one. The flux thing is cool, have been using that for a couple of years.

After I read the Allen Carr book, I found this to be good audiobook (short and to the point)
http://www.audible.com/pd/Self-Developme...497&sr=1-1

Post: #284

(01-05-2014 10:01 AM)dreambig Wrote:  Damn. Tonight was hardgoing. Went to the local to meet a friend for what I thought would be a quiet chat but the bar was packed out. No idea why on a Sunday night but I'm not complaining.

Cute girls in abundance but found it tough to get sets going while sober. Usually I am fine but felt awkward tonight. Kind of kicking myself and was tempted to drink. One random guy even bought drinks for all of us and I had to give mine away.

Real low energy right now. This is going to be tougher than I thought!

dreambig, like I wrote in my post to Sean, I really like reading the "this is tougher than I thought it would be" posts -- not because I enjoy anyone's difficulties, but because I relish honesty and also because these challenging times are when the real work of the wagon gets underway.

I called the thread "1 year drinking wagon challenge" for good reason. It is a challenge.

It is one thing to make a decision about not having a single drink for a year; it is an abstraction when you make it. It is another thing to live it out day after day and night after night. But it's the accumulation of these days and nights that makes you.

All you need to do is just stick to your guns and keep going. Time will take care of the rest...

Post: #285

Quote:Real low energy right now. This is going to be tougher than I thought!

I've started thinking about drinking like it's just another experience. I'm motivated by new experiences (countries, girls, businesses) so when I label it like that, it's easier for me to get over something and move on. For a year I lived in Vero Beach FL for flight school. I was completely bored by the place, felt like there is nothing more to explore there and I wouldn't go back for any reason. So I'm trying to think about drinking in the same way; it was an experience I tried, I got it out of my system and now I'm trying new experiences that don't involve alcohol.

Last night I watched a movie called Thanks for Sharing about a bunch of sex addicts in therapy. Wasn't a great movie but reminded me exactly of the two times I went to AA 5 years ago (mostly to meet girls). My impression is that the AA way of thought beats it into your head that you have no control over yourself. The stories everyone had there were extreme (rich girls turning into prostitutes, guys who couldn't stop drinking until every drop of alcohol in the house was finished including robitussin, etc). Also the religion based part of it sucked. The Carr program seems better - even though he stretches out his wordcount to make a simple point.

Post: #286

To the guys who are having trouble sleeping:

I'm going to go over again some of the points I wrote about in the earlier post. They are simple points but if you really follow them I can assure you that you will be sleeping fine without any chemical aides, which come with a lot of their own problems.

First and foremost, really get your schedule to be regular. Decide on a time that you wake up in the morning and a time you go to bed at night (giving yourself about 7-8 hours of sleep), and stick to these times day in, day out. Consistency is the key of keys. It can be a hassle with weekends but think about it. There is nothing more important for your day-to-day health and well-being than good sleep. So if that is missing, restoring it should be your #1 priority.

Second, you should really have a discipline of eating as little as possible in the hours prior to bedtime -- ideally, nothing in the last 4 hours or so -- and making your room cool for sleep. The reason is that for you to fall asleep and get high quality sleep, your body temperature needs to fall somewhat. Consuming calories prior to bedtime, or trying to sleep in a hot room, make this harder. So please take these two things seriously -- try to arrange your day such that your main meals are done well before bedtime. You can figure it out.

Don't abuse caffeine. It can be a vicious cycle because when you sleep poorly you feel tired, and then you use caffeine to get yourself through the day. This is terrible for your sleep. Take caffeine seriously -- it is a much more potent stimulant than people realize. Anyone who has any kind of trouble sleeping should either not have any caffeine at all, or at most one cup of coffee, early in the day, and always on a full stomach. (Do not start your day with an empty stomach cup of coffee to wake yourself up -- this is terrible for your digestion and your stress chemistry in general).

If you're using f.lux already, great -- make sure it's set up correctly and that you have it on all your devices including smartphones. If not, get it now. You do not want to be staring at blue light screens after sunset -- it's terrible.

Last but not least, bright light therapy has been proven to be extremely effective in repeated well-designed studies. It works. if you're having trouble sleeping, get a 10,000 lux light box and use it every morning at the same time for 30 minutes. Get a good one -- the one I linked to in the other post is great, and much superior to cheaper ones in ways that really matter. It will set you back less than $200 and it will be the best investment of money you ever made, because nothing determines your day-to-day quality of life more than the quality of your sleep. Getting natural sunlight and supplementing D-3 are great but they are not a substitute for consistent every morning 30 minutes 10,000 lux exposure. You need that full spectrum intensity to cue in your sleeping/waking cycle correctly.

If you follow the regimen outlined above -- which, let's face it, is not particularly hard to do -- you will have your schedule entrained within weeks, and you will be sleeping deeply and regularly and feeling good about life.

I would love for someone to really try this and report back after a few weeks.

Post: #287

I'm in - off the booze, off the fags, 1 week down: 51 to go. I need to stay focused and disciplined because I'm starting a new business. What the fuck do tee-totalers do for fun? Wave it goodbye?

Post: #288

I think it just changes the game. I think exercise or some kind of sport becomes more important for stress relief. During evenings spent without dates or socializing I think books become more important. At first I thought it would change the way I interact with girls but I'm realizing it doesn't change that much. I have to consciously try to be more fun and sociable whereas before I would just get drunk and that would take care of itself, if a bit sloppily. But the banter and flirtation is more or less the same. I also suspect that this will put me in the right frame of mind to meet higher quality girls than the booze hounds I usually gravitate towards.

Post: #289

600, welcome aboard and please post some updates in the thread as the year goes on. Also, good luck with your business.

As far as fun goes, use your imagination, but pussy, movies, and music all sound pretty good to me.

Post: #290

This is a really great thread, Lizard. Looks like it has served as an impetus for change for a lot of guys. Hopefully they can stick with it.

Post: #291

Yeah, you got a point on the coffee, Lizard. I should probably cut it out until I get my sleep schedule straight again.

I've also begun to notice that I get a lot more anxious about approaching a good-looking woman after I've drunk a cup. LOL Not really cool since I often see a cutie or two when I head out for breakfast.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #292

(01-05-2014 04:05 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  I struggle with insomnia too - battling a bad bout of it at the moment and really struggling to get my rhythm set again. Mostly from being up too late a few nights around New Years.

One thing that has helped me in the past though is reading fiction before bed. Just a suggestion.

If I'm really having a hard time of it then it doesn't work but on most nights it helps me sleep like a baby. Just read until you hit that point where you know you'd crash if you closed your eyes, and then close the book. Don't read past that point though or you'll get caught up in the story and be up all night. lol

Yes, reading fiction works best for me. When I read blogs or something like that I get nervous my head skin becomes itchy because my energy level is down but the topic is to demandig. Fiction makes you relaxed after all it´s not important stuff. You just read. One can experiment with different kinds so the book should not be to interesting and not to boring.

Many will have the problem that they can not concentrate on the story. It works for me to start the day with reading fiction (and workout) so my brain gets trained to feel at home in the story so when you open the book at bedtime you don´t feel it´s an alien matter.

For the guys who are not into fiction maybe SF will work better as one can rationalize that it deals with science and future predictions that could be helpful.

Post: #293

Well, I didn't even think of drinking just once this past week and felt great most of the time, was going out and hitting on girls and get rejected everyday thought, without alcohol I have to deal with my hamster head on

Post: #294

I had originally planned on being in Miami later this month, but I think that's going to fall through.

Friends 30th birthday is at the end of Feb in Vegas. I don't really want to go (not a fan of Vegas), but I'm somewhat obligated.

For now, I'm looking to stay as sober as possible until then and we'll see how disciplined I can be in Vegas. As of right now, I'm just focused on ending binges and as of tomorrow, putting down the smokes. If drinking happens while I'm on a vacation, I'm not worried about it, but binge drinking in my home city is coming to an end.

Stay strong, comrades.

Post: #295

Alpha Mind, if you're not worried about drinking on vacation then I can't consider you as being on the wagon. The wagon entails complete abstinence from drinking for the period of 1 year from its start date.

If you decide that this is something you want to do, then please post an update in the thread.

Post: #296

I quit on new years. Ive been a hard drinker from my late teens til late 20s going through easily a couple liters of strong drink (vodka, whiskey, gin, tequilla) a week for most of that period. When I was younger it was all too easy as I basically never got hangovers and the health effects were not present. Fast forward to the last couple years and I am experiencing health problems and I do get terrible hangovers. In essense the fun of drinking hard has been over for a couple years and lately I am having to wrap my head around that fact.

When this thread first started I challenged myself to quit cold turkey which I did for about 3 weeks then I slipped and went on a binder and had I not been traveling and drinking with Irish family members over the holidays I think I would have been able to stay totally sober through new years as I gave in to drinking again over christmas. But I am away from that now have not had anything at all since new years eve in spite of being stuck in airports for 30 hrs with nothing to do but hit up a bar while waiting for flights. I am a third of the way through Carrs book and I find that book along with the advice shared in this thread is definately changing my perspective on drinking. This is major for me because I have had such a love affair with booze for so long that I need to change my perspective on this.

I have taken inventory of my life and in the last 10 years boozing has cost me plenty. As it stands every scar on my body is the by product of a drunken fight or accident. The only time I ever truly felt the loss of freedom was from drunken arrests. My memory which was once very sharp is now average. The financial costs of bar tabs, taxis are small compared to losses of potential higher wages because I have chosen working easier/lower paying jobs that I could do under the influence and close to home so I would not have to drive far. Physically if I was not burdened with hangovers which decrease the quality of my workouts or impede me from doing them I suspect I would be in amazing shape instead of just average.

Best of luck to everyone else giving this a shot and thanks for sharing your experiences on this thread.

Post: #297

bacon, welcome aboard and thanks for your eloquent post.

Post: #298

Feelin' fine.

Post: #299

Just a quick update. It's only closing in on three weeks for me. But the benefits are really starting to appear.

I'm sleeping fantastic and have significantly more energy through the day.

Even though I wasn't drinking more than a couple times a week when I quit, I have lost a lot of the face and gut bloat.

My head is much clearer, a lot of the brain fog has lifted and I don't feel like a retard nearly as often.

Post: #300

Office start date JAN 7th.

Got bombed on Sunday night then woke up Monday morning (my start date) super hung over.. I had to open at work (I'm a bartender) and I decided I needed to top off my red bull with a generous shot of vodka.. Needless to say I stayed pretty drunk. It was really slow due to weather so we closed early. Had myself a shift beer and before I left I topped my red bull of again...

Ended up going to a new place that I heard was hiring ppl for a second job... Ended up getting wasted and obviously ruined my chances by aggressively hitting on the semi cute bartender.

Left there and went to grab a couple large nips of fireball..

Passed out black out drunk by 530pm on a Monday night with shitty weather.

It's pretty apparent I have a problem that needs to be handled immediately.

I'm sharing this with this thread because some of us have the same problem and I needed to speak the truth.

Biz