Post: #26

(10-31-2013 07:58 PM)lovejoy Wrote:  Study after study have shown the majority of women get the hots more for guys built like fitness models than super ripped body builders. In one study the body Bradd Pitt had for Fight Club pulled 72.5% of the vote. In last place @ 1% was Mr. Olympia winner Frank Zane, one of the most aesthetically pleasing looking bodybuilders of modern times. Sure there are woman into big guys, but they are in tha minority.

That's great, man. Please tell me more about these studies.

Because as we all know, the primary principle is game is:

Ask women what they are attracted to. Do not look at what they actually do. Listen to what they say.

P.S. Brad Pitt in a shirt doesn't even look like he lifts.

What the hell good is that going to do?

Is a man with a Brad Pitt body going to gay clubs where he can toss his shirt off?

Post: #27

(10-31-2013 07:35 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  <snip>

I was as confident (or more) at 183 than now. When women come up and squeeze my arm when I'm just standing there, it's not confidence drawing them in. It's just primal.

As for jacked guys and the hottest girls...

Haven't you noticed that a lot of jacked guys are into fit or muscular girls?

I was with a guy who walked around XS and said he was not interested in any girl there. "I only like fit girls."

So the issue isn't whether women are attracted to them per se, the issue is that a lot of seriously dedicated people are attracted to a completely different type of girl than you or I.

Here's how I see it.

If you told a guy to suit up or smoke or carry drugs, that guy could still be a loser.

That doesn't mean suits, cigarettes, and drugs don't work. It just means you can't use that solely. You still need a game component to it.

Same with a physique. There is a way to carry one's self and to use it. It's not just getting big and showing up. It's knowing specifically how to use the physique to your advantage.

Post: #28

(10-31-2013 08:07 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Same with a physique. There is a way to carry one's self and to use it. It's not just getting big and showing up. It's knowing specifically how to use the physique to your advantage.

This right here. It's a dead horse by now but no-one shows up and gets the girl. Not the guy in the suit, not the fitness model.

But I can say, from personal experience, that being bigger and more fit gets you that extra glance, that double take, that extra second of eye contact. It's that extra head that turns to look at you and the bigger smile with the girl you approach.

Post: #29

What about the impact of going from 183 to 202 on the face? I've even bulking but my face takes a hot and looks much fatter when I'm bulking.

Post: #30

(10-31-2013 08:33 PM)bonkers Wrote:  What about the impact of going from 183 to 202 on the face? I've even bulking but my face takes a hot and looks much fatter when I'm bulking.

Obviously when you're bulking and have an accumulation of body fat your face is going to look different. It has nothing to do with your weight, more to do with your body composition.

Post: #31

(10-31-2013 08:33 PM)bonkers Wrote:  What about the impact of going from 183 to 202 on the face? I've even bulking but my face takes a hot and looks much fatter when I'm bulking.

There's putting on fat and there's putting on muscle, when you put on fat your face will look like a chipmunk...when you put on muscle and your overall bf is still low your face will still be lean. Not all scale weight is created equal.

Post: #32

(10-31-2013 07:58 PM)lovejoy Wrote:  In one study the body Bradd Pitt had for Fight Club pulled 72.5% of the vote.

Jesus I have seen this quoted so many times. This is because it was Brad Pitt! It has NOTHING to do with his build. Zero.

And as has been mentioned, judge women on what they do, not what they say.

Post: #33

Just to add an international observation to this. I've heard people say that being big is only an advantage in America. Japanese girls often tell me they don't like huge guys. European girls say it too.

Well that's funny because the biggest two guys I know in Tokyo pull a very large number of hot girls here. Neither are bodybuilders, they are just big, strong motherfuckers. Like I say, despite the supposed "disadvantage" they pull way more than my other friends. Yes they have game too but the body gives them an edge.

One of my friends is a black guy with impossibly gigantic arms. Interestingly enough, these same girls who told me they "don't like big muscles" are drooling all over my friend when I bring him along for drinks. He gets girls screaming when he enters clubs. Screaming! Have you ever had that when you enter a club? Didn't think so. Some run up from behind to feel his arms. It's like he is a celebrity or something. This in a country where girls supposedly don't like big guys.

Forget the veiny bodybuilders on steroids. Nobody is talking about that build and you won't achieve it anyway. Just get as big and strong as you reasonably can.

Post: #34

I always shit on the value of bodybuilding on here, mostly because I think our culture is too obsessed with it, yet I know that I've gotten much bigger and stronger as I've improved my game. Probably not a coincidence.

It may well be that as guys get older, the value of muscles increases.

It signals to young girls that you're still healthy and virile. Not a neutered, put to pasture soccer dad.

Just speculation, but at the very least staying fit becomes both harder and more important as we age.

Post: #35

Actually I might be wrong on the Brad Pitt thing. Was there any way of telling it was him or was it a totally blind survey?

Either way, it's not about what they say. Enough girls opened their legs for Zyzz I'm sure.

Post: #36

(10-31-2013 08:14 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

(10-31-2013 08:07 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Same with a physique. There is a way to carry one's self and to use it. It's not just getting big and showing up. It's knowing specifically how to use the physique to your advantage.

This right here. It's a dead horse by now but no-one shows up and gets the girl. Not the guy in the suit, not the fitness model.

But I can say, from personal experience, that being bigger and more fit gets you that extra glance, that double take, that extra second of eye contact. It's that extra head that turns to look at you and the bigger smile with the girl you approach.

To a point, but people stare and poke at freaks too. There is a range that the majority woman find attractive, the same way most guys are drawn to woman with a hip/ waist ratio of 0.7. Get outside the range by much and the number of women who find that attractive fall off sharply. The best scenario is to have it all covered, have game, dress well and be in shape.

Post: #37

Lotta yakking, but who answered op's question? There had to be a point where things changed. . Right?

Post: #38

(10-31-2013 10:21 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Lotta yakking, but who answered op's question? There had to be a point where things changed. . Right?

I answered on the first page.

Keep up, bro.

Post: #39

(10-31-2013 10:12 PM)lovejoy Wrote:  To a point, but people stare and poke at freaks too. There is a range that the majority woman find attractive, the same way most guys are drawn to woman with a hip/ waist ratio of 0.7. Get outside the range by much and the number of women who find that attractive fall off sharply. The best scenario is to have it all covered, have game, dress well and be in shape.

Keep citing "scientific studies" that rely on survey data.

Go to the newbie forum and ask whether any of us here base on game decisions on what women say they find attractive.

Post: #40

(10-31-2013 10:04 PM)dreambig Wrote:  Actually I might be wrong on the Brad Pitt thing. Was there any way of telling it was him or was it a totally blind survey?

Either way, it's not about what they say. Enough girls opened their legs for Zyzz I'm sure.

It was an obvious pic from Fight Club. Even without his face showing.

Moreover, even if they didn't know it was him, it had perfect movie lighting, etc.

Post: #41

(10-31-2013 09:29 PM)dreambig Wrote:  

(10-31-2013 07:58 PM)lovejoy Wrote:  In one study the body Bradd Pitt had for Fight Club pulled 72.5% of the vote.

Jesus I have seen this quoted so many times. This is because it was Brad Pitt! It has NOTHING to do with his build. Zero.

And as has been mentioned, judge women on what they do, not what they say.

Even in studies without names the results are similar. AQs for watching what they do, I see more of them "doing" guys built like off season fitness models 6' @ 185-195 than guys like Phil Heath.

Post: #42

(10-31-2013 10:31 PM)lovejoy Wrote:  

(10-31-2013 09:29 PM)dreambig Wrote:  

(10-31-2013 07:58 PM)lovejoy Wrote:  In one study the body Bradd Pitt had for Fight Club pulled 72.5% of the vote.

Jesus I have seen this quoted so many times. This is because it was Brad Pitt! It has NOTHING to do with his build. Zero.

And as has been mentioned, judge women on what they do, not what they say.

Even in studies without names the results are similar. AQs for watching what they do, I see more of them "doing" guys built like off season fitness models 6' @ 185-195 than guys like Phil Heath.

Phil Heath?



This is Phil Heath.

Nobody's talking about getting as big as a top pro bodybuilder.

Workout like a demon for two decades and you won't even begin to approach that level.

As for fitness models - these guys are much bigger than our boy Brad Pitt in Fight Club.

Steve Cook, fitness model.



Most guys aren't talking about getting as big as this either!

Keep this in mind - when guys talk about working out and bodybuilding, forget about the images you have in your mind of Arnold pumping iron in the 70's.

Post: #43

(10-31-2013 09:56 PM)Therapsid Wrote:  I always shit on the value of bodybuilding on here, mostly because I think our culture is too obsessed with it, yet I know that I've gotten much bigger and stronger as I've improved my game. Probably not a coincidence.

It may well be that as guys get older, the value of muscles increases.

It signals to young girls that you're still healthy and virile. Not a neutered, put to pasture soccer dad.

Just speculation, but at the very least staying fit becomes both harder and more important as we age.

It's something you have to keep up after you hit your late 20's. I've never been out the gym for more than a year since 1975. @ 58 I'm 6'2 and 185 lbs @ 12% BF. I cycle 10 miles a day on average, do mainly body weight and kettlebell exercises now, and do 100 pushups a day just for the hell of it.

Post: #44

(10-31-2013 10:31 PM)lovejoy Wrote:  Even in studies without names the results are similar. AQs for watching what they do, I see more of them "doing" guys built like off season fitness models 6' @ 185-195 than guys like Phil Heath.

Who is talking about Phil Heath? Or Ronnie Coleman?

Are you trolling or have you not even been following along?

Most guys who train hard don't even wanna look like those guys.

Why not talk about what we are actually talking about?

The question is: When do you really notice a huge difference (that's what "tipping point" means) in the game once you added muscle.

Do you have personal experiences to share?

Or more silly studies?

And references to bodybuilders that even other bodybuilders don't want to look like?

Post: #45

(10-31-2013 10:37 PM)Therapsid Wrote:  

(10-31-2013 10:31 PM)lovejoy Wrote:  

(10-31-2013 09:29 PM)dreambig Wrote:  

(10-31-2013 07:58 PM)lovejoy Wrote:  In one study the body Bradd Pitt had for Fight Club pulled 72.5% of the vote.

Jesus I have seen this quoted so many times. This is because it was Brad Pitt! It has NOTHING to do with his build. Zero.

And as has been mentioned, judge women on what they do, not what they say.

Even in studies without names the results are similar. AQs for watching what they do, I see more of them "doing" guys built like off season fitness models 6' @ 185-195 than guys like Phil Heath.

Phil Heath?



This is Phil Heath.

Nobody's talking about getting as big as a top pro bodybuilder.

Workout like a demon for two decades and you won't even begin to approach that level.

As for fitness models - these guys are much bigger than our boy Brad Pitt in Fight Club.

Steve Cook, fitness model.



Most guys aren't talking about getting as big as this either!


Keep this in mind - when guys talk about working out and bodybuilding, forget about the images you have in your mind of Arnold pumping iron in the 70's.

Steve Cook is 6ft 1in @ 204 lbs, most of these fitness models are right in the sweet spot for 6 footers, around 195-210. Greg Plitt , one the most photographed of fitness models with over 1000 magazine covers to his credit is 195 @ 6'1".

Post: #46

(10-31-2013 10:55 PM)lovejoy Wrote:  Steve Cook is 6ft 1in @ 204 lbs, most of these fitness models are right in the sweet spot for 6 footers, around 195-210. Greg Plitt , one the most photographed of fitness models with over 1000 magazine covers to his credit is 195 @ 6'1".

Yeah.

Debating a 9 pound difference.

Now we know for a fact that you're a

Post: #47

If you have decent musculature (doesn't have to be huge, whatever your definition of huge is) the tipping point is when you reach about 10~12% bodyfat (DEXA scan, which is often higher than what you can guess based on pics or calipers). 8% is the god mode where you hypnotize women with your physique.

Most of the Starting Strength / generic lifting / drinks lots of milk guys are around 20% BF so they get nothing much from their hard earned muscles.

Source: my lifting circle of friends.

I just hit 12% myself (although I'm a smaller guy at 75kg) and I'm starting to get that look from girls.

Of course you will still need good game to close. This is just a bait, like a nice car or something, except that you can take this bait all the way to the bedroom.

Rollo Tomassi has a saying related to this: "All the game in the world won't make you any hotter when the clothes come off"

And me to my mates who sometimes give me shit for taking care of my body:

Them haters: "I'm already having sex, don't need to train so hard etc."
Me: "It's all about having sex with the lights on, fellas."

Post: #48

For me the tipping point isn't just an appearance thing, though that is proof of putting in work, but knowing that the equation goes something like this in my mind:

1) My whole body is getting stronger, I'm a force to be reckoned with, I don't lift just to be the big-arms guy or big chest guy, I strive for symmetry and unity across all strength systems.

2) No single muscle group gets so far behind the other that I feel mechanically awkward or look awkward due to the neglect.

3) I have reached the "tipping point" when I could remain a "huge dude," but I do not always stay there because time-wise it's impractical and very consuming of my precious time... (unless your a pro-sponsored Bbuilder).

4) That said, I recognize and have experienced points with each major muscle group where I was on the verge of being convinced I'd reached a "genetic maximum" of sorts and could gain no more - be it due to joint pain or no results in months even after changing up lifting routine and eating - and it got stale where I was ready to quit worrying about progress.

5) Then out of the blue, you FINALLY break through to another level with that muscle group. You notice, and others notice your accomplishments.

That to me is the tipping point, it may take 2-10 years to even get there without juice, but staying in relative proximity to major break-through levels as much as possible, be it achieving one, or close to one, has always been my goal.

It's the in between times where you aren't close to the goal you're looking to achieve that separates the greatest physiques.

I feel people generally do not push themselves hard enough, have little experience pushing themselves that hard, get discouraged, and look for excuses. Occasionally I'm guilty of this, but I get to the gym 4-6 days a week for at least 75 minutes lifting, and in doing so, I've heard every excuse under the sun.

That being said, I'm about 13 lbs. of muscle and 4% body fat away from where I'd like to be. Without total focus, that could take me more than 6-8 months to achieve. Unfortunately, I've been in the final stretch for about a year now and resistance to my final level/goal has been daunting.

Post: #49

(10-31-2013 07:58 PM)lovejoy Wrote:  Study after study have shown the majority of women get the hots more for guys built like fitness models than super ripped body builders. In one study the body Bradd Pitt had for Fight Club pulled 72.5% of the vote. In last place @ 1% was Mr. Olympia winner Frank Zane, one of the most aesthetically pleasing looking bodybuilders of modern times. Sure there are woman into big guys, but they are in tha minority.

Study after study done by weesh dudes who are built like Macauley Culkin.

This isn't an argument but look at this video.



Guys built like that dude have an easy subset of chicks who get soaking wet just looking at them. It might not be every chick but I'd guess a lot more than you'd think, maybe 10-20%.

Post: #50

(10-31-2013 11:16 PM)Doctore Wrote:  If you have decent musculature... 8% is the god mode where you hypnotize women with your physique.

True. Although you still need to build the decent musculature first! Most people don't. Which leads me to my next point...

(10-31-2013 11:16 PM)Doctore Wrote:  Most of the Starting Strength / generic lifting / drinks lots of milk guys are around 20% BF so they get nothing much from their hard earned muscles.

These people can cut down in a few months. I don't see the issue. The bigger problem is getting strong in the first place. Skinny teenage kids worrying too much about body fat are another symptom of our pussified society. They have little muscle and worry about having six packs. It's male anorexia.

(10-31-2013 11:16 PM)Doctore Wrote:  Them haters: "I'm already having sex, don't need to train so hard etc."
Me: "It's all about having sex with the lights on, fellas."

Haha yes. I was guilty of this before I started lifting. Guys will do a lot of rationalization to avoid having to put hard work into something.