Post: #701

250mg/week puts me in at about 1k - my doc likes keeping me below 1100

Been on TRT for years. Have two other friends on 200mg/week they come in in the 800's (that's ng/dL)

I know one guy that's on 125mg he clocks in at 500 or so.

250mg isn't going to hurt anyone.

Post: #702

Last update after quitting TRT cold turkey.

Blood work a few weeks ago put total T around 350ng/dl. Despite this being "low", I feel great.

Making great gains in the gym, sex drive is strong as hell. No more acne or anxiety issues. And I'm pocketing $200/mo that's not going to the men's clinic anymore.

Just like MikeCF said, quitting TRT won't kill you. It does not have to be for life. I only wish I had quit sooner.

Post: #703

I got my blood tests done about 10 days ago.

Going to know my numbers when I meet with the Dr. tomorrow.

I am positive I am low test. I was low test 3 years ago when I got tested. Tried a 100ml cyp injection and popped an anastrazole a month ago to see what it was like. I felt like new a couple of days later.

I'm 42 and getting divorced. Need my game up for what's coming. I got very overweight in an unhappy marriage. I've lost 45 lbs since the woman filed at the end of March. Have 50 to go or so to go, maybe more.

Looks like I will be doing test cyp, anastrazole, and HCG. That should help me feel better and push off the rest of the weight. It also helps my mental acuity and libido.

Post: #704

Reboot I'm sure you are at this point but I'll ask anyway : are you working out consistently? It will get you to your goal faster...

Post: #705

Yes...started in April and it's been a huge help. But being 42 and fat doesn't help as far as hormones are concerned. Low T, high E. Everything is moving in the right direction though, so that's good. I'm even starting to get morning wood from time to time...and that's without TRT. Need to get back into reasonable shape...so that I can have confidence to jump in the mix again. Haven't been on a first date since 95. Been lurking on this forum for a couple of months. Super helpful.

Post: #706

I started in my 40's as well, changed my life. Took me several years to get "ripped" and really see changes. Hang in there bruddah it's worth it.

Post: #707

(06-06-2016 01:58 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  Last update after quitting TRT cold turkey.

Blood work a few weeks ago put total T around 350ng/dl. Despite this being "low", I feel great.

Making great gains in the gym, sex drive is strong as hell. No more acne or anxiety issues. And I'm pocketing $200/mo that's not going to the men's clinic anymore.

Just like MikeCF said, quitting TRT won't kill you. It does not have to be for life. I only wish I had quit sooner.

I would like to comment on this.

I am not against taking test, or any other hormone for that matter. I have done it myself, and will do it again.

Testosterone is undeniably the number one (natural) hormone when it comes to gaining strength and muscle mass.
However, when it comes to feeling good, feeling and looking young again etc... there are so many hormones and neurotransmitters that play a role.

As you exemplify: your T level is low, yet you feel great.

And still the only advice given to people who want to feel better, is to get on T.

This as a remark in this thread (where most people are interested in well being and not in cycling), and a critique on overpriced TRT doctors and anti-aging clinics.

If you go to such a doctor and their immediate standard plan is to get you on test, adex and hcg then turn around and find another doctor.
If the first thing they do is discussing your lifestyle, diet, exercise, possible exposure to endocrine disruptors etc, then you might have found a good one.

The treatment priority should always be:
1) lifestyle and diet changes
2) vitamins, minerals and other supplements
3) adrenal and thyroid hormones
4) sex hormones (together with secretagogues, inhibitors,...)
5) growth hormone (also secretagogues and derivatives like LR3)

If the doctor goes for the standard t+adex+hcg from the start, that's jumping in at stage 4.
Some men are effectively helped by this approach, but many are not.

Post: #708

(06-05-2016 06:34 PM)ThrustMaster Wrote:  250mg/week puts me in at about 1k - my doc likes keeping me below 1100

Been on TRT for years. Have two other friends on 200mg/week they come in in the 800's (that's ng/dL)

I know one guy that's on 125mg he clocks in at 500 or so.

250mg isn't going to hurt anyone.

So there's a big difference from person to person.

At 100mg transdermal/day (of which only 10% is absorbed, so 70mg/week) I came in at 1100 and an LH level of 1.7 IU/L.

Not everyone's hpt axis shuts down at the slightest hint of exogeneous test, hence why I think that it is extra important to start low to grab this possible opportunity.
If your own system never shuts down even though you are supplementing, there is also no need for hcg or extensive pct's when getting of.

Post: #709

(06-07-2016 12:27 PM)PhDre Wrote:  If you go to such a doctor and their immediate standard plan is to get you on test, adex and hcg then turn around and find another doctor.

VERY true. I found this out when I went to one of the above, got some test results and then was told sorry, you're well within the normal range. There was no discussion of lifestyle and I had to ask them to do estradiol and free testosterone in addition to their usual total testosterone screen. They still were going by cutoffs versus an actual evaluation. Their services were very much check the block, all covered by insurance.

Since then I found two other doctors at aging clinics - one in San Fran and another near DC- who take a full day to evaluate and test everything possible, not just a blood draw and a lab screen. It is not completely covered by insurance, but then again they do so much more than crank out prescriptions and send you on your way. You may find out that you don't need anything, but at least the evaluation is quite a bit more extensive than a blood draw and a cutoff score. I have not begun treatment yet but I plan to once scheduling can be arranged - these types of clinics tend to have long wait lists.

Post: #710

My bloodwork results are delayed, so I didn't get to go see my anti-aging specialist.

(she's pretty damned hot IMHO)

Still waiting on free test, and IGF-A. She says she can't give me an accurate dose without that info.

But I still have some test in the medicine chest, and I hit myself up with a full 200mg last night.

I feel much better today...it even makes you start walking with some swag...but those .22 gauge 1.5 inch needles suck.

Reboot

Post: #711

Reboot: just to be clear unless it was testosterone suspension (which I'm sure it wasn't) the effect you're feeling is a placebo effect. What you shot was most likely testosterone cyp which has a half life of about 6 -7 days. It will take a few days to a week for you to really start having a reaction to it.

In my opinion you should split your dose and shoot twice a week

Post: #712

(06-08-2016 08:41 AM)ThrustMaster Wrote:  Reboot: just to be clear unless it was testosterone suspension (which I'm sure it wasn't) the effect you're feeling is a placebo effect. What you shot was most likely testosterone cyp which has a half life of about 6 -7 days. It will take a few days to a week for you to really start having a reaction to it.

In my opinion you should split your dose and shoot twice a week

If you're right...then long live the placebo effect!

I'd rather split dose too. Less of a seesaw.

And yes, it was Test Cyp.

Post: #713

Well, results are in...it was a pretty comprehensive panel.

But on the test side....

Total test came in at 173, and free test came in at 5.1. Estradiol came in at 30.4.

Those are some lousy numbers. Let's see what TRT regimen is recommended to me.

Reboot

Post: #714

(06-09-2016 01:32 PM)Reboot Wrote:  Well, results are in...it was a pretty comprehensive panel.

But on the test side....

Total test came in at 173, and free test came in at 5.1. Estradiol came in at 30.4.

Those are some lousy numbers. Let's see what TRT regimen is recommended to me.

Reboot

That's super low.

Post: #715

I came in at 175 as well the first time I tested. My doc put me on clomid mono therapy in a month I was at 435 but felt like a total bitch most of the time. I then found a TRT doc that put me on Testim, I got to about 500-560 with it but it was messy. I found the paper by Crisler and had a discussion with my doc (I have some medical education) and we agreed the best approach was 100mg t-cyp E3d with .35mg anastrazole EOD and 250ui of hcg e3d.

That got me to ~900 test, 32 e2 - the target for e2 is ~22.

Post: #716

(06-10-2016 08:20 AM)ThrustMaster Wrote:  I came in at 175 as well the first time I tested. My doc put me on clomid mono therapy in a month I was at 435 but felt like a total bitch most of the time. I then found a TRT doc that put me on Testim, I got to about 500-560 with it but it was messy. I found the paper by Crisler and had a discussion with my doc (I have some medical education) and we agreed the best approach was 100mg t-cyp E3d with .35mg anastrazole EOD and 250ui of hcg e3d.

That got me to ~900 test, 32 e2 - the target for e2 is ~22.

My doc put me on 200mg test cyp per week, 1mg anastrazole 2x per week, hcg injections (don't remember dose), plus it looks like my thyroid hormones are low, so I am getting something for that, too. Fortunately, I am going to be using 25 gauge needles and injecting into quads or delts. Those 22 gauge jobs are literally a pain in the ass.

Reboot

Post: #717

Went ahead and got lab results yesterday.
Estradiol - 32.5 pg/ML
FSH 3.5 mIU/mL
LH 6.5 mIU/mL
TOTAL T. 463 ng/dL

I'm in my mid twenties. Lift heavy 4 times per week. Eat very clean. One cheat meal a week of chick fil a. Take zinc and vitamin D as well. Bright light therapy. Don't drink much, maybe twice a month. At least 7 hours of sleep daily. 215lbs @17% bf. 6'1"
Going to get a legit blood test done by the doctor, something a little more comprehensive. I'm thinking my estradiol levels are quite high. I do feel like shit most days. The textbook symptoms of low T. Any suggestions?

Post: #718

^Check your liver function. Your estradiol to total testosterone ratio is very high, especially given your age, your clean diet and your lack of alcohol consumption.

Also have your testicles examined, your LH is very high for the amount of total testosterone. With those FSH and LH values, you certainly do not suffer from secondary hypogonadism.

Edit: the high estradiol could also be due to high intra testicular aromatase. Another reason to have them properly examined.

Post: #719

Lex your est is high and your test is low. That is a very unsafe situation, and it should be your highest priority to bring your test up and est down.

If you are being honest about your diet, sleep, etc. I would consider TRT, You may want an aromatase inhibitor to keep your est down. There are serious long-term consequences for men who have a high est-to-test ratio.

As for feeling like shit, it is probably a mix of your hormones (which are not only out of whack but unsafely so) and your life situation. The good news is that starting T should get you enough energy and confidence that your life situation will improve.

It's a bit surprising that your hormones would be so unbalanced, any idea how it happened?

Post: #720

At this moment he should first and foremost get his testicles examined.

His LH is high and his test is low, which can point to primary hypogonadism (balls simply stop functioning - unlikely at his age) or to a more serious problem with his balls.

Post: #721

So the holy grail for e2 is ~22 - 32 while
Slightly elevated is not disastrously high. A TT of almost 500 is also not catastrophic. Ratios notwithstanding. Chances are slim a non TRT positive doc is going to put him on TRT given levels.

Post: #722

I'm scheduled for a doctor's visit next month, but I'm going to try to bump it up sooner. There's a local TRT doc who's willing to order some comprehensive blood work in the meantime. Storm, what are the best major concerns with the big descepancy? Idk what exactly happened. I've been living rather clean for at least a year. I was overweight as a child, but started cleaning up during college. I just can't get the fat off. Not surprised by the imbalance. I took a look at the mirror last week and let's just say given the estradiol levels, I wasn't shocked. I've got rather large hips, and all the fat goes to my hips and ass. the testicles have also been rather small, good call on getting them examined.

Post: #723

What was your free T?

Post: #724

Here's a cool calculator:

http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm

Post: #725

Unfortunately I don't have any SHBG #