Post: #551

(12-20-2015 11:44 AM)YardDog Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 10:40 AM)Rontgennurz Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 07:18 AM)YardDog Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 07:07 PM)Rontgennurz Wrote:  Interesting thread. Im not sure If I have low testosterone but I for sure have many of the symptoms described. I mean Ive worked out many many years and Im muscular, but still the mental things .. im lazy, little motivation, brain fog and libido isnt that good no more ..

I think Im gonna get a blood test. But what bothers me is ... Im only 27 and I wanna have children in the future, is it a big risk that I will become sterile and unable to get kids If I would turn out to have low T and hop on TRT?

I answered this above but here's the info again:

HCG can preserve your fertilty while on TRT. Check out this page and study: http://www.defymedical.com/resources/hea...rgoing-trt

Hey man, is this true?? that would be awesome. The link doesnt seem to work tho.

Yes, it's true. An actually study has been done to prove it too, unlike most shit you hear about TRT on the internet.

Here's the link again: http://www.defymedical.com/resources/hea...rgoing-trt

Here's the study's conclusion: "Results: A total of 26 men with a mean age of 35.9 years were included in the study. Mean followup was 6.2 months. Of the men 19 were treated with injectable testosterone and 7 were treated with transdermal gel. Mean serum hormone levels before vs during treatment were testosterone 207.2 vs 1,055.5 ng/dl (p 0.0001), free testosterone 8.1 vs 20.4 pg/ml (p 0.02) and estradiol 2.2 vs 3.7 pg/ml (p 0.11). Pretreatment semen parameters were volume 2.9 ml, density 35.2 million per ml, motility 49.0% and forward progression 2.3. No differences in semen parameters were observed during greater than 1 year of followup. No impact on semen parameters was observed as a function of testosterone formulation. No patient became azoospermic during concomitant testosterone replacement and human chorionic gonadotropin therapy. Nine of 26 men contributed to pregnancy with the partner during followup."

Thanks alot man. What about the saying that you can get "resistant" to HCG if you use it too long, cause of .. whatever theory it was, the "LH" (??) getting used to the stimulation? Nah I dont know how the theory went, but anyway some said HCG can stop working if you use it for a long time.

Post: #552

(12-20-2015 07:02 PM)Rontgennurz Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 11:44 AM)YardDog Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 10:40 AM)Rontgennurz Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 07:18 AM)YardDog Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 07:07 PM)Rontgennurz Wrote:  Interesting thread. Im not sure If I have low testosterone but I for sure have many of the symptoms described. I mean Ive worked out many many years and Im muscular, but still the mental things .. im lazy, little motivation, brain fog and libido isnt that good no more ..

I think Im gonna get a blood test. But what bothers me is ... Im only 27 and I wanna have children in the future, is it a big risk that I will become sterile and unable to get kids If I would turn out to have low T and hop on TRT?

I answered this above but here's the info again:

HCG can preserve your fertilty while on TRT. Check out this page and study: http://www.defymedical.com/resources/hea...rgoing-trt

Hey man, is this true?? that would be awesome. The link doesnt seem to work tho.

Yes, it's true. An actually study has been done to prove it too, unlike most shit you hear about TRT on the internet.

Here's the link again: http://www.defymedical.com/resources/hea...rgoing-trt

Here's the study's conclusion: "Results: A total of 26 men with a mean age of 35.9 years were included in the study. Mean followup was 6.2 months. Of the men 19 were treated with injectable testosterone and 7 were treated with transdermal gel. Mean serum hormone levels before vs during treatment were testosterone 207.2 vs 1,055.5 ng/dl (p 0.0001), free testosterone 8.1 vs 20.4 pg/ml (p 0.02) and estradiol 2.2 vs 3.7 pg/ml (p 0.11). Pretreatment semen parameters were volume 2.9 ml, density 35.2 million per ml, motility 49.0% and forward progression 2.3. No differences in semen parameters were observed during greater than 1 year of followup. No impact on semen parameters was observed as a function of testosterone formulation. No patient became azoospermic during concomitant testosterone replacement and human chorionic gonadotropin therapy. Nine of 26 men contributed to pregnancy with the partner during followup."

Thanks alot man. What about the saying that you can get "resistant" to HCG if you use it too long, cause of .. whatever theory it was, the "LH" (??) getting used to the stimulation? Nah I dont know how the theory went, but anyway some said HCG can stop working if you use it for a long time.

I think some internet guys say shit like that but I've never heard a legit TRT doc say it. I think the bro science theory was that your leydig cells can become desensitized to HCG but docs like Dr John or Dr Lipshultz dismiss the idea. I've never seen a study that says it's true either.

LH or luteinizing hormone is the signaling hormone that tells your nuts to make test. When you go on TRT without HCG this signaling stops almost completely. You can see this in labs. Before TRT you'll have a value but after about 2 months on TRT it will drop near zero. This is surefire way to tell if a guys is on test actually.

Read more about HCG on these pages:
http://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?...-Fertility
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_HCG.aspx

For any of you considering doing TRT I would read all the resources on Excelmale/peaktestosterone/allthingsmale. All of the questions that are being asked here are already answered there in detail, often by doctors who work day in and out with HRT patients.

Post: #553

Results back - test is well above normal, at 645, putting me squarely out of the range that they will treat. I did the blood draw after a couple of weeks of not working out, depleted libido, poor sleep and a few nights of drinking earlier in the week and even so the levels are ok. PSA ok too.

Typically they won't start to consider TRT until levels are less than 400. The good news is I've got nothing to worry about, even in my late 40s. The bad news is I've got to get around all these other symptoms i'm experiencing (low libido not being one of them).

I'd say it was well worth finding out, and they did offer a free re-test in six months. Will see what happens.

Post: #554

(12-22-2015 01:43 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  Results back - test is well above normal, at 645, putting me squarely out of the range that they will treat. I did the blood draw after a couple of weeks of not working out, depleted libido, poor sleep and a few nights of drinking earlier in the week and even so the levels are ok. PSA ok too.

Typically they won't start to consider TRT until levels are less than 400. The good news is I've got nothing to worry about, even in my late 40s. The bad news is I've got to get around all these other symptoms i'm experiencing (low libido not being one of them).

I'd say it was well worth finding out, and they did offer a free re-test in six months. Will see what happens.

The test level means nothing. What's your free test? What's your estradiol?

Post: #555

Nothing in their emailed report about that like I'd hoped. Contacted them again to see if that's available.

Post: #556

(12-22-2015 04:38 PM)PUA_Rachacha Wrote:  

(12-22-2015 01:43 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  Results back - test is well above normal, at 645, putting me squarely out of the range that they will treat. I did the blood draw after a couple of weeks of not working out, depleted libido, poor sleep and a few nights of drinking earlier in the week and even so the levels are ok. PSA ok too.

Typically they won't start to consider TRT until levels are less than 400. The good news is I've got nothing to worry about, even in my late 40s. The bad news is I've got to get around all these other symptoms i'm experiencing (low libido not being one of them).

I'd say it was well worth finding out, and they did offer a free re-test in six months. Will see what happens.

The test level means nothing. What's your free test? What's your estradiol?

I don't know if it means nothing but you need to put it in context with your other hormones. Along with Free T and E2, be sure you run DHT too. Research DHT and you'll see its importance in libido. I'd also run a complete thyroid panel and other hormones like DHEA-S.

Good luck man.

Post: #557

They got back with me and said my estradiol is also within normal range, at 18.4. They did not reply about free test or other aspects, but thanks for the tips; I may try one of the aforementioned methods to get a more complete panel next time. This place just seemed concerned with test level before going any further.

Post: #558

This sign is in a brand new LA Fitness, a health club that maybe houses two juicers.

Amazing how deep the brainwashing goes.

Post: #559

Just heard back from the clinic - they said my free testosterone is 14.8, within the normal range. In order to qualify I would have to show a level below 11. Probably pretty standard thresholds for most clinics.

And as for that sign above, I would not be surprised if that's put up there as a result of some insurance requirement.

Post: #560

(12-28-2015 04:18 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  Just heard back from the clinic - they said my free testosterone is 14.8, within the normal range. In order to qualify I would have to show a level below 11. Probably pretty standard thresholds for most clinics.

And as for that sign above, I would not be surprised if that's put up there as a result of some insurance requirement.

Your estradiol is a little low. Optimal range is 20-30. Did you take a sensitive test?

My estradiol came in at 15, and I had virtually no libido and was moody. Difficulty getting an erection.

Urologist put me on clomid a few months back. Don't know if my test has gone up, but I'm definitely hornier. Can have sex 3x per week now, whereas before I was hardly interested at all. Have made gains in the gym too. Unfortunately my hair immediately started shedding.

Maybe you should try going on clomid?

Post: #561

(12-29-2015 03:12 PM)PUA_Rachacha Wrote:  Your estradiol is a little low. Optimal range is 20-30. Did you take a sensitive test?

My estradiol came in at 15, and I had virtually no libido and was moody. Difficulty getting an erection.

Urologist put me on clomid a few months back. Don't know if my test has gone up, but I'm definitely hornier. Can have sex 3x per week now, whereas before I was hardly interested at all. Have made gains in the gym too. Unfortunately my hair immediately started shedding.

Maybe you should try going on clomid?

I'm not sure if I got the sensitive test from Labcorp, but by the sounds of it I could have. The lab slip said Roche ECLIA methodology - do you know if that's the sensitive test?

As for clomid, if it makes me bald, forget it - I'll stick to lifting weights. Until I stop waking up with a hard on and being able to bust a nut on demand at least once a day, maybe it's premature to bother with this at all in spite of other symptoms I've experienced.

I'm surprised to hear hair loss happening with you as a result of the clomid, since it is not listed as a side effect. You should get some Nizoral shampoo (anything with 2% ketoconazole). You can find it online, but you might have to hunt around for the 2% version which isn't usually available in the US. You can buy it at just about any overseas pharmacy, though. Pick up a bottle or two next time you're on vacation.

Post: #562

Already using 2% ketoconazole 2x per week. Going to go on Rogaine and Propecia next. I was on Rogaine before and got nasty sides, but am willing to go on again and try to work with the sides since Rogaine completely regrew my crown hair. Propecia's a new one for me, and I'm completely aware of the sides. If they become unbearable, I'll go off.

If you're getting an erection every morning and can bust a nut on command, then your test levels are fine. What other low-test symptoms do you possess? Brain fog? Lack of ambition?

Post: #563

A little of both, maybe some irritability too. Just not myself.

Post: #564

Been doing 100mg a week for 9 months. Biggest thing I notice is recovery time at the gym ( 51 years old, went from around 290 total T to around 675). Reason for this post is to tell about an interesting costco price eye opener today. I have been getting 100mg per ml all along. On this thread I saw where people were getting 200 mg per ml. That sounded good to me as I hate jabbing myself with all that oil. I paid $76 per 10 ml vial at 100mg, and figured 200 mg being twice the medicine would probably be about double the price. It cost $67.70 for the 10 ml 200mg vial. Ten dollars less for a vial that will last twice as long. Strange system we live in.

Post: #565

(12-29-2015 04:56 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  A little of both, maybe some irritability too. Just not myself.

Have you had a complete thyroid panel run? I would do that as well. The symptoms for hypo or hyperthyroid can be similar to low T.

You can use discounted labs to run one for under $100 I think. If you include reverse T3 and antibodies it might be $200.

Post: #566

Had that checked a couple of years ago and nothing abnormal was indicated. But it might be worth another look. Thanks.

Post: #567

(12-29-2015 09:48 PM)deerhunter Wrote:  Been doing 100mg a week for 9 months. Biggest thing I notice is recovery time at the gym ( 51 years old, went from around 290 total T to around 675). Reason for this post is to tell about an interesting costco price eye opener today. I have been getting 100mg per ml all along. On this thread I saw where people were getting 200 mg per ml. That sounded good to me as I hate jabbing myself with all that oil. I paid $76 per 10 ml vial at 100mg, and figured 200 mg being twice the medicine would probably be about double the price. It cost $67.70 for the 10 ml 200mg vial. Ten dollars less for a vial that will last twice as long. Strange system we live in.

if you are not looking around scam is waiting you

Post: #568

Labs came back. After 6 weeks on 100mg/week injections, T is up to 522 (from 336), free is now 19.6 (up from 6.9).

However, my estradiol went from 28.8 to 52.0. Not good.

Adjustment is - going to 120mg/week on T injections, and anastrozole to block the estradiol. Goal is a consistent 700-800 on T.

More to follow.

Post: #569

Great Hangout by 3 top guys in male HRT. Any of you guys on TRT or considering any form of HRT should watch this. Dr John covers clomid, HCG, Thyroid and much more.

I would also suggest reading each the books each of these guys wrote and if you're considering treatment give Defy and Dr John a look.

Post: #570

This thread really explains all the bitching and whining on this forum...

23 pages of guys with balls that don't work properly.

Post: #571

(01-13-2016 10:34 PM)YardDog Wrote:  Great Hangout by 3 top guys in male HRT. Any of you guys on TRT or considering any form of HRT should watch this. Dr John covers clomid, HCG, Thyroid and much more.

I would also suggest reading each the books each of these guys wrote and if you're considering treatment give Defy and Dr John a look.

That embedded video throws an error for me.

This link that I got from Defy Medical via email seems to work though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8wPlroS...e=youtu.be

Post: #572

Im going to have my testosterone checked. I'm new to all this. What metrics/test results do I need to as for at the clinic?

Post: #573

(01-14-2016 01:32 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  Im going to have my testosterone checked. I'm new to all this. What metrics/test results do I need to as for at the clinic?

You want a fairly complete panel like this: http://www.discountedlabs.com/pre-trt-ma...ess-panel/

But I know you're in a State that doesn't allow self testing, as dumb as that is. In most states you can just order that test for $262, get the draw, and then take it from there if you think you have issues to address.

If you can somehow get that panel down above post your labs here. Basically for Test and Free T you want to be in the upper 1/2 to top of the reference range. Reference ranges are different for each laboratory and are not universal. Keep that in mind.

Since you can't do self testing in your state I think you'll need to work through a doc. Just start with something like the panel linked above to get an idea of your general hormonal health. Be aware you're wading into an area of healthcare is this very new and most conventional docs don't know shit about it. Find someone like Dr John to work with. Do not fuck around with retard Endos that think if a guy has a total T level of 310 on a reference range of 300-1000 he is fine. You will never win with these types. Make sure you research the doc first.

Post: #574

So I am seeing the doctor this week for the test. From what the receptionist told me he starts everyone out on 80/wk. I want to ask to get a higher dose and do EOD from day one.... I know doctors can be sensitive when patients have opinions, is there a best way to ask?

This place does not write prescriptions but has the clients purchase in house test.

Post: #575

(01-19-2016 04:10 AM)storm Wrote:  So I am seeing the doctor this week for the test. From what the receptionist told me he starts everyone out on 80/wk. I want to ask to get a higher dose and do EOD from day one.... I know doctors can be sensitive when patients have opinions, is there a best way to ask?

This place does not write prescriptions but has the clients purchase in house test.

What is the protocol? Type of test, scheduling, sub q/IM, etc.?

Lots of places will start at 100mg a week. 80 seems a bit low but if you're like 200 TT right now I'm sure it will still have a big impact.

What would your reasoning be for wanting more to start?

I would think the doc will test you again in 6 weeks so if you're still low he will bump it then. You might have to wait it out.