Post: #1

I would love to hear opinions from anyone who has lived as an expat in these 4 countries, preferably in more than one to offer contrasting viewpoints.

I am in Bangkok Thailand and it's OK. But I can't help thinking that some of these other countries might be awesome too.

I'd never considered Korea before coming to Asia but have heard it's a cool place for a foreigner.

Shanghai sounds amazing and I've always wanted to go to Japan (and even learn the language)

Please, just stories, advice on which has the best chicks, food, cost, hygiene/cleanliness (China sounds the worst for that)

Thanks.

Post: #2

(09-16-2013 11:49 AM)Vendetta Wrote:  I would love to hear opinions from anyone who has lived as an expat in these 4 countries, preferably in more than one to offer contrasting viewpoints.

I am in Bangkok Thailand and it's OK. But I can't help thinking that some of these other countries might be awesome too.

I'd never considered Korea before coming to Asia but have heard it's a cool place for a foreigner.

Shanghai sounds amazing and I've always wanted to go to Japan (and even learn the language)

Please, just stories, advice on which has the best chicks, food, cost, hygiene/cleanliness (China sounds the worst for that)

Thanks.

Vendetta: it would help if you would get us started in your thread concerning what you know about each of the locations that you list and to describe your preferences regarding each of the areas of your interest: best chicks, food, cost, hygiene/cleanliness.

Certainly there are some other threads on these various locations, already, however the other threads may not be comparing exactly the same countries and/or criteria that you point out, but it could be helpful if you guided us a little bit. And, why do you specifically pick these locations? I see why you pick Thailand, b/c you are there, but what are you thinking specifically concerning each of the locations and do you have a certain leaning... a priority of some things over other things.. b/c many times there will be trade offs.. .one place may be cheap, but it may not be clean or as safe... for example. and then what cities are you thinking? Capital cities? I think we need more specifics.

comparing japan and china:
/thread-27913.html


discussion of asian asses:
/thread-4174.html

Post: #3

I can only offer my personal comparisson between China and Japan...

Even though you can see obvious cultural, historical and linguistic influences form China in Japan, the two countries, as well as their populations, are in many aspects polar opposites...

Cleanliness/Hygene:

China:
- very dirty and poluted; smog everywhere
- streets and crowds tend to be very chaotic
- trash everywhere;
- people spitting and snotting on the ground

Japan:
- very clean, smog seems pretty much non-existent
- orderly, very mechanized society;
- almost no trash in sight anywhere

Manners / Politeness:

China:
- generally, Chinese behavior would be considered impolite in many other countries.
- people tend to be pretty blunt; somebody thinks your an asshole, he'll usually call you one.
- not too much attention is paid toward being considerate
- lot's of pushing and shoving in crowds
- people won't hesitate to argue or fight with eachother out on the street
- again, spiting/snotting on the ground (sometimes on the floors of public buildings)
- sometimes shameless public nose-picking
- lots of shouting
- most won't think twice about throwing their trash on the ground.
- did I mention spitting?

***On the plus side, Chinese tend to be much more down to earth than Japanese people, and despite their collective annoyances, they're usually quite normal once you get to know them.

Japan
- has to have one of the most polite, civilized and timid societies I've ever encountered.
- people are extremely indirect and rarely say what they mean
- People are almost always extremely considerate
- No one ever seems to push or shove, constantly giving a quick bow towards eachother whenever they look like they might come close to stepping near eachother's shoes on the sidewalk.
- almost no trash on the ground
- it is extremely rare for anything resembling a fight to come about, no matter how drunk anyone is.
- Generally, Japan has an extremely anti-confrontationalist mentality.
- people don't seem to disagree with eachother openly very much, and they'll go out of their way to avoid causing any kind of confrontational situation

***This, however, has the downside that Japanese people are often just completely and utterly full of shit, and they are among the least down-to-earth people I've encountered. Their entire society is basically fueled by bullshit.

Food:

China:
- huge variety of food
- excellent quality; very addictive. I could really imagine going back to China just for the food.

***Really, it doesn't even deserve the same name as the crap they sell in Western takeout stands; the food alone is probably one of the reasons I fell in love with the place. I don't know how it would ccompare to Thai food, but just thinking about all the feasting we did in China makes me want to hop on a plane and go back.

Japan:
- less variety
- The food here is decent to good; I personally don't think it's much to write home about, but overall, the food is pretty good. Not as much variety as in China, though (obviously, since China is gods-know-howmany times bigger than Japan).

Culture:

China::
Unfortunately, much of culture was lost and destroyed throughout the twentieth century in the People's Republic of China, and it can still be seen today. Very little of traditional local culture is left, and that which is usually serves as a tourist magnet, often cut off in a way from the outside. Really, the old temples and historical buildings seem more like tacky theme parks than actual parts of the city they belong to. On the other hand, contemporary culture in China is also fascinating, simply due to the fact that it is changing so rapidly. Just be warned of a kitsch overload.

Japan:
More historical buildings and remnants of older Japanese culture than China. I also find it interesting that many houses tend to be built in this traditional style of architecture, something which you rarely see in China other than those old and crumbling 四合院Siheyuan i.e. traditional courtyards, and pretty much never see in newer buildings. There's also a whole buttload more festivals in Japan than in China. In general, a very modern country that still retains lots of historical value.

Fashion sense:

China
- Extremely tacky collective sense of fashion
- most men put almost no effort whatsoever into their appearance or personal hygene (some exceptions, though)
- women put quite a bit of effort, but it's still all wrong, mismatched and cringeworthy. Think late 80s/early 90s with even more kitsch to get an idea, though you can still find girls who dress well if you look hard enough.

Japan
- Excellent fashion sense
- both men and women put loads of effort into their appearance; personal hygene is huge here
- extremely trendy clothing overall, though there are some exceptions
- most women dress etremely sexy; high heals, short skirts, revealing clothing, etc.

Overall Talent:

China
Most girls look decent to cute. There are some occasional hotties and occasional gargoyles here and there, but most are about average. All in all, quite satisfying.

Japan
All in all, a good portion of the Japanese female population looks sexy as fuck. I recall one user once noted it almost feels painful due to the fact that you can't nail every woman you see out here.

Ease of getting laid...
**Disclamer: this is based largely on my own subjective experience and level of game, plus it's mostly limited to my stay in Beijing and Osaka, respectively.

China
- relatively easy to medium difficulty. Dont expect to be pulling 8s every other night, but with some decent effort and moderate game, 1-2 girls a month is a reasonable expectation
- some girls are into Westerners, but most in big cities don't seem to care either way. Girls in smaller cities (by Chinese Standards) will usually be much more interested in you.
- my personal results: (about) 300-320 approaches (just a rough estimate), 8 bangs (batting average: c. 1/35 to 1/40)

Japan
- Oh boy, just check out the Bang Osaka thread to get an idea
- so far I haven't seen anything resembling a foreigner bonus in Japan
- HUGE wariness and caution among local women towards guys due to bad pickup run Amok (or "nampa" as it's known here). Japanese women during the day are usually extremely wary of being picked up. A small few will even ignore you on the street if you ask for directions, but this is not very common.
- Success seems to vary a lot from individual to individual; if you're like me, expect to struggle a lot
- my personal results thus far: 243(?) approaches, 2 bangs (batting average: c. 1/120)

Flakiness:

China:
- most Chinese girls are not flakey, though it can can occur from time to time.

Japan
- Unfortunately, no one can be told how flakey these women are...you have to see it for yourself. I myself nearly went mad from the revelation.
- There are no words that can fully describe the flakiness of Japanese women. Sometimes, it seems to defy the very laws of physics, warp the fabric of spacetime itself. All I can say is do not underestimate this! Ever! I don't care how interested in you she seemed, how nice to you she was, or even if it was her idea to meet up in the first place. She. Will. Flake. She will flake if a butterfly lands on a pebble in her back yard, if a speck of dust lands on her fingernail, if the wind is blowing in the wrong direction, and it might be five minutes before you're supposed to meet up. And there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

For you own sanity, assume that the planets must be aligned in order for her not to flake. Bring a book and your laptop wherever you go.

The Sex
***quick background info: I've been with 10 Chinese girls, and only 3 Japanese, so my sample isn't that balanced, but bare with me and take it for what it is; though other guys' stories tend to corroberate.

China
- Usually tends to be varied: some are good, some are bad, while some are avarage; I've been with Chinese girls who were kind of passive, while others were really active and passionate. I can't really think of any common denominators.

Japan
- I'm sure most of you have had the experience of walking along the beach one day and deciding to have sex with a dead sea otter washed up on the shore...which has coincidentally swallowed some bathtub sqeaky toy that goes off with each thrust. That is a pretty accurate description of the Japanese girls I've been with.

Other things I've noticed when comparing Chinese and Japanese women:

- Many Chinese women wouldn't be caught dead drinking or smoking in public, not ot mention getting a tattoo, as it's frowned upon in Chinese society for women to do these things; no such taboo exists for Japanese women, however, as I've seen Japanese women having to be carried home by their friends or coworkers often enough (it seems interesting that China is still an easier place to get laid). That is not to say Japanese women are any more liberated, though.

- Chinese girls usually love singing to themselves, usually these extremely corny love songs they play on the radio.

- With very few exceptions, neither the girls in China nor those in Japan shave their privates (I imagine it's the same in Thailand?), so expect a bit of a bush each time the undies drop.

- The Chinese seem much more crazy about Karaoke ("KTV" in Chinese) than the Japanese.

- PDA is more frowned upon in Japan than in China

- Neither the Chinese nor the Japanese tend to speak any English (beyond the standard "hello, how are you, I'm fine thank you"), but the latter will more often give you the benifit of the doubt that you can speak their language and won't be as much in shock and awe when you ask what time it is or how much something costs.

- English signs in China tend to butcher the language far more than their counterparts in Japan. While in the latter, English signs and inscriptions tend to be filled with cute little mistakes and sound just a bit weird to a native speaker, in China they're just full on Google translations (often quite literally).

- Japanese people tend to be more timid and shy around foreigners, having an expression of "Ooh, a foreigner, don't look at him; more often, they just don't give a shit, though, and will treat you no differently than anyone else, even if you're the only foreigner for miles. In, China, on the other hand, they'll sometimes walk up to you and touch you, take pictures of/with you (sometimes without your permission) or even drive slower so they can get a better look at you.

Post: #4

"I'm sure most of you have had the experience of walking along the beach one day and deciding to have sex with a dead sea otter washed up on the shore...which has coincidentally swallowed some bathtub sqeaky toy that goes off with each thrust. That is a pretty accurate description of the Japanese girls I've been with."

Hilarious lol.

Very informative post. How long did you stay in each place?

Post: #5

Thanks for those links, the discussion one was pretty much what I was looking for.

Yes, I thought maybe I should start the convo but I'd already posted so...

Here are my questions that I would ask of all these places:

1. International internet bandwidth and reliability and access to all websites
2. Time Zone
3. Hotness of women
4. The women's attitudes towards dating foreigners / openness to sex - are foreigners old news/passe?
5. Are the guy's cool? Will they befriend a foreigner?
6. General character of the people / shared beliefs and humour
7. How much English is spoken
8. How easy is the host language to learn
9. How useful is the host language on a global scale
10. Do I like the host language
11. Cost of living - rent/food/bills/booze/going out/transport
12. Quality of cuisine
13. Cleanliness of public places / hygiene standards
14. Diseases that can be caught
15. Hospital / dental costs
16. Weather
17. Natural beauty of countryside within easy reach
18. Proximity to all other Asian countries
19. Law and crime - Dangerous? Petty crimes? Corrupt police?
20. Cultural / historical interest in/of the country
21. Nightlife / Entertainment
22. How cool does the city look? Architecture? Types of accommodation?
23. Shopping - Western foods? Western clothing? Import costs
24. Traffic - Congestion / travel times
25.Can't think of a 25th

So, to give my answers for Thailand, Bangkok.



1. International internet bandwidth and reliability and access to all websites
- For me, shit. Getting 100Kbps between 6pm - Midnight local time. The companies won't guarantee international speeds only local. This could kill my trip to Thailand and is a major reason for starting this post. Thai government also block as many popular porn sites as they can. It's annoying. There are always ones they haven't. But, also this is a blessing, as I look at too much!

2. Time Zone
- pretty good. 8pm here is 9am New York. That's 2pm London time or Midnight Tokyo.

3. Hotness of women
- Thailand has some fucking hot women, and some Uggs like anywhere. Overall... more towards plain. Not too many fatties but lots of girls who eat bad and don't keep in shape. Tummies, arms etc. Very boring to look at naked (not all) But if you walk around you will spot dime pieces maybe 2 or 3 times a day.

4. The women's attitudes towards dating foreigners / openness to sex - are foreigners old news/passe?
- depends on class and looks. You can get a Thai GF easy from a website but will she be that hot? Prob not. If you want a "Hi-So" girl (very flexible term) she is most likely to want to date a rich Thai (they are fucking rich when rich) and "cool" Thai girls are really into Japanese and Korean boy band types. (Those guys also flash the cash to impress and Thai people love money.) If you speak the language and are cool and hot, or with game, you can get hot girls. Do we stand out? Often, like a sore thumb. Too many Western sex tourists so we have a bad rep. Thai might look down on her friend if date a farang. But they might also be jealous/curious of her friend who has a farang. Hard to say, no clear lines but we are def not special in Bangkok. Only if go to remote bit of the country.

5. Are the guy's cool? Will they befriend a foreigner?
- No. They giggle like little girls about "farang". I've seen some farang with a Thai buddy but it is rare. Prob knows him from back home or something.

6. General character of the people / shared beliefs and humour
- actually not bad - Thai girls are certainly quite funny, quite bold, like to tease. Good in that respect. Although the TV culture makes them look like simpletons (which they often are too) their face to face humour isn't bad at all. BUT... Thais are Thai and no foreigner of any sort would ever be truly accepted into their own. I think this is true of all Asia, maybe all the world. But very evident in Thailand. A GF told me that her mum married an American and his sons learned Thai very well and now "they know too much, not good. Know too much about Thailand" A weird attitude but that's how it is.

7. How much English is spoken
- some, but it's not a strong point.

8. How easy is the host language to learn
- it's a damn weird language so at first seems hard but you can pick up words easily. If you study hard 6 hours a day, you can master it in 6 months (no past or future tense) small alphabet for an Asian language, about twice English

9. How useful is the host language on a global scale
- not at all

10. Do I like the host language
- not really

11. Cost of living - rent/food/bills/booze/going out/transport
- if you want to spend big on rent but you can but you can also pay fuck all, even in Bangkok. Location, location, location! Even mine is two or 4 times what a Thai person would be willing to pay (if a normal Thai) it is a third of what I'd pay in London and way nicer. Free pool? Gym? No flatmates? Yes please. Bills are cheap. Food can be very cheap for Thai, moderate to expensive for foreign. Booze, same as London, cheaper in bars than London. Bottle service very cheap compared to US. Taxis dirt cheap. Metro good value but can add up, taxis often cheaper. Going out, not cheap-cheap but cheaper than West.

12. Quality of cuisine - average. I used to think I loved Thai food but real Thai street food is full of fat, gristle, oil, sugar, mystery meats. Thais love it. I'm fussy. All other nations foods available at cost - Thais actually do this quite well, they are good copiers.

13. Cleanliness of public places / hygiene standards
- whole range. Low down bars, grim. Upscale shopping mall, as good as West. Do people wash their hands before food prep? I doubt it. I've been made sick all the time by food that sits in the sun all day. Some put meat on ice, some don't. Thais are hardy.

14. Diseases that can be caught
- Hep A, Hep B, I think Hep C from sex (correct me) rabies, dengue fever (a recent breakout in Bangkok) - that's about it. Very hard to catch any actually. Drink bottled water or from "osmosis" machines. Fruit and veg fine so far. HIV rate one of highest in world. Bag up. (I have done this then failed to do this with every girl. I caught a bacteria. Was cleared with antibiotics) - Thai girls also lie through their teeth about who they see, have seen, are seeing. I heard some horror stories. Having said that, many are virgins until 20s and have only had 2 or 3 BFs their whole life by 30.

15. Hospital / dental costs
- No free hospitals. Dentists are cheaper than the West, some of very high standard, lots of people travel the world to come here for cheaper rates. (but not dirt cheap at all, still a fair chunk of change)

16. Weather
- Average. Most of the time it is grey, overcast, rainy as fuck, and humid as hell. Not as bad as the humidity in Hong Kong but still pretty grim. Some days are lovely though. All depends on season. Can get fucking hot.

17. Natural beauty of countryside within easy reach
- Huge factor. Krabi, Phi Phi, Koh Samet, Koh Samui, Koh Pha Ngan (full moon parties etc) Koh Tao (cheapest 5 star PADI diving in the world), Himalayas in the North. Thailand has a LOT of natural beauty.

18. Proximity to all other Asian countries
- Good, a huge Asian airport hub too.

19. Law and crime - Dangerous? Petty crimes? Corrupt police?
- so safe on streets, any time of day. BUT.... ladyboys often petty thieves (wallets, phones etc) also violent. Many expats who marry Thais end up dead (often killed by her and her family) Police are so corrupt and fucking useless. They kill foreigners sometimes too. You can pay them off if you fuck up sometimes, can be a lot. But in Thai culture, it's not about absolute law it's about connections to wealthy and influential people. If you are connected, you can get away with murder. Literally.

20. Cultural / historical interest in/of the country
- not much for me.

21. Nightlife / Entertainment
- lots to chose from but most of it shit and commercial. Fun can be made though by just getting stuck in and not expecting too much.

22. How cool does the city look? Architecture? Types of accommodation?
- It can look fucking cool at times, a real Blade Runner city from the right angles. Very interesting to look at. Little backstreets, massive condos and bars on rooftops. Parks, rivers, elevated skytrain, huge rainstorms and endless seas of traffic at night, with old and new mingled together, temples, smoke, street food carts, chanting, music. Think Akira! There are very nice condos to rent. The closer to the BTS (metro/skytrain) the more you pay.The more central, more. Can be same as back home but you will get good bang for your buck. Big condos too, 50-80 sqm no problem. No sharing needed. If you want a POS studio in the middle of nowhere with no A/C and just a fan, you can have it for like $100 a month. a 60 sqm Condo in a very popular part of town, $1,000 a month.

23. Shopping - Western foods? Western clothing? Import costs
- Big C, Tesco Lotus, 7/11s. Easy to buy Western stuff. Import costs are stupid high though. 200% tax on vehicles. I think 7-20% for other stuff.

24. Traffic - Congestion / travel times
- bad. BTS Skytrain (metro) is good and fast, trains come every 2-3 minutes. But it only serves small bit of town the main bit. Cars, forget it. Buses, hell no. Cheap but shit and slow. Taxis excellently cheap but must use meter or else a rip off. Tuk-Tuks a tourist rip off, don't take them ever. Best way to get around would be a scooter. But very dangerous. Thai drivers maniacs and often drunk. Roads can get wet and oily very quickly and you could skid off.

25. I dunno! Can't think of 25th. Maybe.... Is it very Westernized? Can I access all the things I like back home? Western culture stuff like music, food fads that kind of thing.
- In Bangkok yes, everything is available. Some Thais are very hip.


Right, tired after that!

I have lived in Hong Kong and don't fancy a boring place like Singapore. Also not really interested in third tier countries like Indonesia, Cambodia or the Philippines (though must go there for a fuck fest!)
I have always wanted to go to Japan and will for sure. I want to train martial arts there and have tried twice to learn the language, so... it's high on my list. I am also DESPERATE to get my Japanese flag! I love a lot about the culture and the countryside looks varied and awesome and the weather cooler than Thailand and I love their culture (films, books etc)
China - curious to see it. Love the stories about Shanghai women treating old whitey like a God but the food hygiene sounds appalling. Cardboard to bulk out steam buns? Plastic bin liner used to bulk out seaweed? Fuck that. And I NEED perfect internet.
Korea - awesome internet and plastic women and Gangnam style. Pretty much all I know. Nutters to the North.
Taiwan - certainly curious to see it but never had a desire to go as such.

Wow. Too much writing.

Post: #6

Thanks for that post, Sargon.

Very interesting.

I'm a bit disappointed at how normal we are to the Japanese!

Maybe they are just being polite and trying to make us feel included...

Post: #7

(09-17-2013 05:18 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Very informative post. How long did you stay in each place?

I stayed in China for a total of about eight months: a bit less than two months in Changchun (Jilin Province, Northeast China), and about six months in Beijing. Admittedly not a long time, but it did wonders for my Chinese.

Right now, I've been in Japan for about five and a half months, and I'll be here in Osaka for another 7 1/2 months.

@Vendetta:

I think the Japanese are just too polite to stare and make a big deal out of foreigners, while the Chinese just don't give a shit.

Post: #8

I stayed in Japan (Tokyo specifically) for 7 nights last year.

I'm not sure why, but I remember a lot of women staring at me. I don't know if these were IOIs or general curiosity, but like an idiot I never approached them. A few guys as well (some giving me hostile looks), but not as much as the women.

But my experience mirrors Sargon's, as far as dating or ONS go. It was extremely hard to get my dick wet there. I did mostly day game approaches, but I also went out to Roppongi and Shibuya to a few bars on a Friday night. I remember it being pretty shitty, I ended up leaving early. On my last night there, I managed to a pull a not-so-great looking 6ish older J woman probably in her 40s back to my hotel room, but she left after I tried to escalate on her.

What Sargon says is true, Japanese women are the flakiest bitches I've ever encountered. Every single email or lead flaked on me. They'll tell you they like you or want to see you again, and then you'll never hear from then again. You could also be having a great time chatting or hanging out with them, do something wrong and not even know it, then they'll never contact you again.

For this reason, I've decided I probably won't even bother to go back there again. I'm not sure if you'll have the same experience as me, but I personally wouldn't even bother going there unless you plan on becoming fluent to semi fluent in Japanese and can take potentially long dry spells, or fit a certain niche among the women there, i.e. tall, blonde, blue eyed pretty boy and really fit, or good looking muscular hip hop black dude.

Quick background:

- I spoke barely any Japanese, which is needed there.
- I approached less than 10 women a day, one day I never even went out and stayed in my hotel.
- I only went out to the clubs and bars once and left early, before 11pm.

Post: #9

Thailand really seems like an odd man out in this selection.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #10

The exact reason behind Japanese women's absurdly flakey behavior has always been a bit of a mystery, and I've heard multiple explanations:

The "Three-Year Old with a Piece of Candy" Hypothesis:
My original explanation was that the average young Japanese woman was consumed by this type of insane iPhone and Facebook culture...on steroids, where the value of human interactions was reduced to mere pop-up screens, reducing any need whatsoever to keep your word on any arrangement if you didn't feel like it at the time. According to this expanation, they basically have the minds of toddlers when it comes to what they want. While they may be interested in the offer from the beginning, it's more like a child who sees a piece of candy at the store. Sure, she wants it right now (and will set an appointment for it), but if later she's not absolutely positively in the mood the very moment you're supposed to meet up, she'll see no reason to follow through on it.

The Peer-Pressure Hypothesis:
A couple of months back I had a long chat with this black American guy from Texas on the Japanese and their general mentality. This guy, who'd been here for about two years, said a lot of the times, the girl may originally be interested in you, but she realizes that if she starts hanging out with you she'll be designated as "the foreigner girl" (i.e. the slut) by her friends, which she obviously doesn't want. So she suddenly calls it off last minute, or -- easier for her -- just stops talking to you.

The Honne-Tatemae Hypothesis:
Skotch gave me the following explanation, which he says is based on anecdotes from Japanese friends of his (and which is, admittedly, somewhat more complex): In truth, these girls never had any intention of meeting up with you in the first place, but in order to avoid any kind of social awkwardness and to save face, they maintain this façade (建前 tatemae), making it look like they're interested just for the lulz, or, to be more precise, because that's what's socially expected. You simply don't outright reject someone in Japanese society. Rather, you have to sneak your way around it. With the Japanese, there is almost always a stark contrast between what is known as 本音 hon-ne i.e. your true feelings and opinions, and 建前 tatemaë i.e. your public opinions. To a limited extent, this is the case all over the world, just most people aren't nearly as anal about it as over here.

"But why do they act so interested?" I asked, "Some of them even outright suggested hanging out, saying things like また遊ぼう let's hang out again!" with no lack of enthusiasm, or even texting me by themselves at first." Well, it seems this is, again, just intended to have the effect of sounding nice at the moment, since it makes for a good interaction to get the person looking forward to something.

"Well, why call it off in the last moment?" I ask. Some of these girls will wait until shortly before you're supposed to meet up to break it to you. One girl only called it off about eight minutes before we were supposed to meet, and that was only after I messaged her saying I'd be a few minutes late. What the fuck? Apparantly, it's just too socially uncomfortable for them to call the meeting off, so many times they just draw it out until the very last minute.

So...? What the fuck's going on?
Each of these explanations seems plausible, but also has some inconsistencies. One particular anecdote comes to mind back in Germany when I had this female language partner I was thinking about pursuing further. We'd met up a couple of times (one time she'd flaked). I'd suggested going out to a bar followed by catching a movie I'd wanted to say. "Yay!" she'd said enthusiastically, only she flaked the very last minute. The following monday, I see two other Japanese acquaintances -- one guy and one girl.

The girl asks "Sargon, how was the movie?"
"What movie??" I had never mentioned to her that I'd planned to meet with the other girl.
"Hiroko told me last week that she was going to go see a movie with you on Friday."
"Uh...no, sorry, don't know anything about it," I say.
"Oh," she says. Puzzled look on her face.

Apparantly, this chick had originally had some intentions of meeting up with me, otherwise why would she have told her friend about it? If not, this was some pretty elaborate tatemae behavior. Plus, some of the girls I've met here truly seemed genuinely interested during the first meetup. Maybe they just possess the lying skills of an Academy Award winner or an utter sociopath? Who knows? I'm not entirely sure which of the above explanations is the actual cause. Maybe all three are valid to some degree. Maybe I'll never know.

Either way, this is some truly bizarre, Twilight Zone behavior, and an everlasting pain in the ass. In terms of women, I'd choose China, even Germany over Japan any day. There's little point in being surrounded by hot women if getting them to follow through on their word is like parting the Red Sea.

Post: #11

God, that's depressing news on Japan, Sargon!

I met with a Japanese girl from a dating website here in BKK.

Firstly, her photo, her 1 photo looked like she was 28. But she said she was 36, so I figured she wasn't lying.

She looked fucking hot in the 1 photo (albeit a weird angle, slightly far away shot) -girls have only 2 reasons for 1 photo. They are ugly. They are extremely hot and don't want to be bombarded.

Her profile was so prescriptive, "I only want a young man" "no bald men" "please, no old guy!" "I am young and healthy and don't need old guy" that I figured she must be hot and has a lot of choice.

I finally met her at a mall one evening. I was shocked when I saw her. This "woman" looked nothing like her photo. She look well past 45! But, I went into Japanese mode myself and continued the interaction out of politeness. We went to eat some Japanese food at a place she knew and she was happy to continue the evening at a pub we had to walk to. No PDA of course.

Then she got a phonecall which she leaped up to take and ran around the corner to finish. By now I'd actually taken a liking to her in a MILF kind of way, she wasn't ugly, just much older. Easy enough to get along with. She came back and said she had to go (another guy I presumed)

I walked her to a taxi outside (I'd invited her back for wine but she'd said no) outside as the cab pulled up, I gave her 2 kisses on the lips (which were nice) but she barely reacted.

A week or so later I get a text from her, saying she's back in Japan for family matters. She sent me a load of photos of food she was having there (as we'd talked a lot about food) I replied, she sent more a couple days later. I made a "joke" about how many animals had to die to make the feast she'd shown me in the photo. Even as I sent it I thought, maybe not funny to Japanese, too bold and teasing.

I texted a few days later to see if she was back. She replied, said she was but was "so busy with work". I said "Call me if you want a break, we'll go for a drink" and she said thanks, and that was that.

Flakey? I guess so. She would go days without responding to a text when I was trying to get her, then spend a whole afternoon texting back and forth. Weird.

Anyway.... I'm sure I've heard/read about other guys banging Japanese girls left, right and centre when over there.

My friend lived there for 6 months once on his way to Australia. I think he had a great time. But that was well over 10 years ago. Maybe things have changed a great deal since then.

Post: #12

(09-17-2013 10:34 AM)Vendetta Wrote:  My friend lived there for 6 months once on his way to Australia. I think he had a great time. But that was well over 10 years ago. Maybe things have changed a great deal since then.

Yes, it is said that between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the Sons of Arius...there was an age undreamed of...a Golden Age...an age of conquest and glory, an age of heroes and plunder, an age when getting laid in Japan was...easy, so long as you were white, black or at least somewhat foreign looking. It is from this mythical time -- often mentioned in the Old Testament, the Rig Veda and in Homeric poetry -- that these heroic tales of high deeds hale.

But in all seriousness, it really looks like all these stories of Japan being oh-so easy to meet girls have their origins from up to the late 1990s and early/mid-2000s. What exactly has changed since then is really anyone's guess, and I can't think of any satisfying answers. All I can say as that, from the looks of it, Japan in the recent past, much like Mars, was pretty different in certain ways from the way it is today.

I've heard there are still guys that can come over here and pull like mad however, but no one really knows what it is about them that works. Even other RVF-members based in Japan, like Menace, ImmoralPsych, Skotch, or Memcpy can get laid with consistency here, even though even they seem to say it's really not that easy.

Post: #13

Sargon,

Just fyi I am not based in Japan and have not even been there (aside from airport). I would like to go, but these stories are depressing.

Here is one idea that occurred to me re flaking for you to try: flake first.

Set dates. Set up as many as you want/can. Don't actually go to the agreed upon location. Just do something else or stay home, or whatever. I know this will be hard to do, because as men it's natural to go through with plans we made, but it may be worth a shot. If the girl actually shows up, just say there was mis-communication and you were actually supposed to meet at X, where X is close to your house. This is all KJ on my part, but it might be worth trying.

Post: #14

I was in Japan for 2 years and the girls can be very flaky, but I wouldn't let that discourage you too much. Aside from flakiness, there's very few downsides to Japanese girls. If you're only visiting for a short time then it may be frustrating as you don't have time for flakes, but longer term it's not going to be a big problem.

There are two paths every foreigner can take in Japan. The first is the typical gaijin-circle. You go to your foreigner-friendly bars, with foreigner-friendly sluts who have banged every one of your friends whether they are willing to admit it or not. The second (more rewarding) path is getting Japanese friends and hitting up regular bars, social events and speaking their language. I did the gaijin bar thing the first month or two and it was just degrading. I found much more excitement pulling girls who had no specific interest or history with foreigners.

I found the further you can distance yourself from the typical tourist the better. Modify your game to reflect the culture. Japanese society is very formal and fake, a lot of girls are just looking for someone to connect with. If you can make her comfortable and laugh, flakiness will diminish. They go off of your vibe, not the content of what you are saying. That means you can suggest anything you want and if it comes off like a completely normal thing, it will be treated as such. I approached two girls at night that were just leaving a bar and heading home. I asked them to come up to my room and watch a movie. They were a little hesitant at first and they looked at one another, but then I gave them a look like they were the weird ones for being surprised. "Yeah? What you don't like movies? Follow me". Sure enough, they followed.

I can't really comment about game in Tokyo/Osaka though. I was in Tokyo for a few months and I found living in a smaller city gave me greater results. Milk your exotic-ness for all that it's worth. Areas with very few foreigners have great bonus'.

Quick little story: My last week in Japan I was walking home to my apartment at 1am. A girl was walking right beside me and looking up at me. I said hello and while she had no command of the English language whatsoever she was clearly interested in me. With only 3 minutes of conversation, she told me her apartment was just 2 blocks ahead. She said I was welcome to come to her place for drinks and could sleep over. I get into her apartment, we chat a bit for 20 minutes and then she changes into her nightie in front of me. We've known each other for all of 40 minutes and i'm already looking at her naked. Sure enough, we bang and I received another call from her a few days later to do it again.

Stories like that are not common and that was the first time I was picked up by a girl, but the point is it's not very hard to get laid in Japan, especially if you are in the right mindset and understand Japanese women.

Post: #15

(09-17-2013 08:48 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Thailand really seems like an odd man out in this selection.

hehehe. Thailand may be odd, but it seems to be OP's starting point - or frame of reference.

Post: #16

Collide:

Thanks for the story. It offers a good alternative to mine and GC's. It's good to hear you had better results. By the way, when did you live in Japan?

This seems to confirm my suspicion that results really can vary quite a bit from person to person. I guess it is also a reason why people like Vendetta or Menace shouldn't be scared off from visiting Japan simply because of my stories, as they only reflect my subjective experiences.

I also don't want it to seem like I'm claiming my low success rate in Japan is due only to Japanese women. If you look at the 100 Approach Study Japan thread, you'll see there are others who can pull with fairly good consistency in Osaka and the greater Kansai region, so at least part of what I described above is due to my own behavior -- the only puzzling thing is that the numbers here are so vastly different from the other countries I've been to. To get a further idea, look at the different results we seem to get at even a single Club. Some users here can head to Club Pure (Osaka) and clean up regularly, while I was able to get one bang, but otherwise got shot down consistently.

Why this is the case is yet another mystery, at which I can only speculate. My best guess is that some people simply don't vibe as well with the women here as others, meaning they have to put a lot more work in than otherwise.

As far as the two routes you mentioned, I pretty much approached women anywhere I could find them, whether in foreigner friendly hangouts, on the street, in coffee shops, train stations, or elsewhere. I did not target the foreigner bars specifically, but I didn't actively avoid them either. I cant remember the exact numbers, but I broke my approaches down more thoroughly in the Bang Osaka thread.

What I'm basically trying to say is that people shouldn't be too discouraged from coming just because of my mild horror stories or think my results are bound to reflect yours. However, the fact that you could encounter similar obstacles is a further argument that if you decide to come here, do not come with women as your main interest. If things happen to go south and the locals aren't feeling you the way you expected, you'll want to have other reasons for staying here.

Post: #17

Quote:No one ever seems to push or shove, constantly giving a quick bow towards eachother whenever they look like they might come close to stepping near eachother's shoes on the sidewalk.

You missed the pushing on crowded train, they are really vicious and those salarymen don't give a shit about pushing you as hard as they can

About sex in Japan, the difference between sex with soapland girls and normal girls is like night and day which is quite bizarre, and the 'working' gals are better at flirting too. Source: dated one before.

Post: #18

(09-18-2013 03:23 AM)Sargon of Akkad Wrote:  By the way, when did you live in Japan?

2010-2012.

Even in my short time of being there I noticed more foreigners walking around as time went on. One reason i'm weary of going back is for this reason. Japan was probably heaven in the 90's.

I heard certain cities in China can be just as exciting today, but I don't know if I could ever learn the language since Chinese culture doesn't interest me at all.

Post: #19

^ ^

Applies to me too. I've always wanted to go to Japan and even tried to learn the language once or twice.

Chinese - although I know it's an important language for the 21st Century, it doesn't grab me as much.

I am hearing Shanghai is great. It looks great too with the old colonial buildings there.

The girls sound far more interesting than elsewhere in China and Japanese girls are sounding more an more disappointing with every post I read on here!

Maybe Shangers it is...

Post: #20

Too bad no one has made any comments on Korean girls. Unfortunately, I've never been to Korea, and I've only hooked up with one Korean girl, but here are my two cents based on my limited experiences with them...

- By and large, Korean girls, like their Japanese counterparts, tend to take excellent care of their appearance, and have an excellent fashion sense. Like the Japanese, they tend to dress and carry themselves in a very sexy manner. Of course, as always, there ar exceptions.

- However, their dress code can also be so uniform that you can often spot a Korean walking more than a block in front of you, just by the way she dresses...even if you can't see her face, you'll recognize she's from Korea before you recognize that she's Asian. They are by far probably the easiest nationality to spot on this entire planet.

- From the Korean students I've known in Germany, China and Japan, they tend to be much more lively and outgoing than the Japanese. This is especially the case with the Korean students I've met in Japan, always greeting me with very lively facial expressions and asking me to hang out with them.

- In general, I had the impression that my exotic factor worked better with the Korean tourists I approached in Japan (whom I couldn't further pursue largely due to logistical issues), but there's still too little data to confirm this.

- The Korean girls I've approached can be a bit flakey sometimes, but again, not the majority, and certainly nowhere close to the levels that Japanese women can reach.

- Unfortunately, word on the forum is that Korea can also be tough as balls. I have yet to confirm this, as I've never been there, but Korea, particularly Seoul, is high up on my list of places I'd like to visit. You can check the other threads, and hopefully, guys who've been there will make further comments.

Post: #21

(09-17-2013 05:18 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  "I'm sure most of you have had the experience of walking along the beach one day and deciding to have sex with a dead sea otter washed up on the shore...which has coincidentally swallowed some bathtub sqeaky toy that goes off with each thrust. That is a pretty accurate description of the Japanese girls I've been with."

I can attest to this. Usually the only women that are good at sex there, are some of the chinese women that are there (banged a few of them) older women in their early to mid 30's. . .especially if they are married (like god daamn really good) and girls who are pros and you just lucked up and happened to banged them (happened to me a couple times.)


The flakiness of J-girls is pretty astounding, suprisingly if you do online dating this goes down a lot, see when you're day game sarging, 99% of the people will act really nice and engaging, and will oblige when you get the digits/keitai(cellphone) mail address. . .but that's just to get you out of their face as they aren't interested (for a myriad of reasons), or just want some validation.

IF you go sarging Id suggest you just book 3-4 dates on the same day since at LEAST 2 of those will flake, period.

Personally, after pretty much doing a year of street game/sarging/nampa, I realized that the time and energy is just not worth it. . .I have gotten many times more more pussy there from just doing everyday stuff, hobbies, online game (yes online game is pretty good over there), going to certian clubs where women seem to like me (this takes time to figure out).

I had a friend who did NOTHING BUT online game, in Japan and got laid a LOT! Seeing the amount of work you have to put in doing street game there to me it's simple not worth it. . .ESPECIALLY if after you FINALLY get a hot girl to bed with you, she fucks like a dead tunafish (there's a Japanese term for that. . ."Maguro" - literally: Tuna ) it makes you feel that all that damn work you did to get her wasn't worth it, especialyl if she's put up a whole bunch of lmr before you get the lay.

That said, something that I think was missed about Japan was. . .

LOGISTICS

They are pretty damn awesome there, like if you take a minute of two to research your surroundings, you can easily map out a plan from meet ----> bang. Mostly because of their super efficient train system. . .

So yeah Japan has huge pros and cons. . .personally I wou'dnt waste my time sarging and just pick up some hobbies, run social circle game, and online game, and keep a lookout for "chance encounters" (I've gotten LOTS of GREAT lays from stuff like that) where the girls just likes you, easy to meet, and is just super compliant every step of the way. The only work is to put yourself in that situation/environment, which can be done with a little effort. . .a big Hint to that would be this: GManifesto would KILL it in Japan just by walking around the city!
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(I'm talking about wearing custom suits as much as you can. . .)


@Sarkon, there are a number of things you can do to "pull like mad" but they require you to:

a) live there for a long period of time
b) work like mad
c) suit up EVERYWHERE (really if you aren't willing to do this. don't bother even buying a plane ticket)
d) have a solid mastery of the language (not really 100% neccessary but. . .it helps a lot althoug some people disagree.)
e) then . . .find your niche.

Check out clubs and figure out which clubs seem to have girls that like you the most. Go there.

Check out TARGET RICH coffee shops (I used to have a great one in Shibuya where it was 99.9% sexy ass hot women) and just SIT there, in your suit, doing work on your lap top for about an hour, 2-3 times a week, do this on a regular schedule (same day and time each week) eventually the women there will "start getting used to you" and find their way into your vision so that you can approach them easily without it being a big scene. . .sometimes they'll just approach you! (had this happen a lot actaully)

you get work done, and you can get pussy. I used to take it a step further and hold meetings there when I was working on my business there (it failed but that's another story)

but this applies to clubs too, if you frequent a club regularly or a certain club event regularly eventually people will see you making friends with everyone and chatting, and be really interested in you. . .a lot of guys will introduce you to women sometimes (you still have to be careful of J-guys though. . .they like to cockblock. . .they are not your friend when it comes to women)

Basically you gotta just pick up by not picking up. It takes a while to do.
Thing is, unless you are a god, celebrity, or rich and flaunt it, you're going to have to stay in Japan for an extended period of time to get some good lays with great women there.


I think what changed from the 90s and 2000s was the economy. the crash of 2008 had a HUGE impact in Japan which was already going through a 40 year reccesion anyway but that crashed changed a LOT of things there, and as a response, laws were changed, tightened, and enforcement increased, it has become more of a "Money/Status is king also because of that a lot of people are just upset (especialy the guys) and will basically shame women into not dating foreigners in public and in private (in public they do it very passive agressively. . .it is EASY to socially spook J-girls into social submission). Of course if the foreigners is really good looking, alpha, rich, status heavy etc (most times even a LITTLE bit of status helps) and don't act thirsty, you CAN clean up and overide any kind of asd, just because you are "Awesome" Also there was a huge backlash against the "sexiness" (look up Koda Kumi) of the 90's-2000's that was brewing and expoded once the crash hit and its effects were hitting Japan hard.

Also with the Japan 2020 olympics. . .as it gets closer to that time it's probably going to get more difficult.

Post: #22

Having just been to all these spots (and posting this from Seoul), I say go to Taipei.

I've been twice and it is one of my favorite cities ever.

Japan is great, but I think it's relatively hard to infiltrate...meaning even if you make Japanese friends, you'll never be IN the group, if that makes sense. It's also an incredibly robotic society and Tokyo is a bit too clean for me.

Seoul is epic and if you have money, dress well, and speak a bit of Korean (easiest language to learn out of your choices), you can absolutely destroy here. It's silly. Had I known this, I would've brought nicer threads with me, but it's still epic, suited up or not.

Taipei has amazingly hot women, it's relatively inexpensive, the people are warm, excellent public transportation, and the nightlife is epic if you know where you're going. I think too many people sleep on Taipei. Once you're in with a bartender and know a dope local or two, it's an entirely different world. Much cooler than China and you won't have to deal with rude ass people (most mainland Chinese people are rude, loud, and irritating). Women here are substantially more open to the foreign beef too, which is a huge plus.

My vote: Taipei

Post: #23

Alpha Mind, how is the level of English in Taipei? Do many younger girls speak it well?

Post: #24

(09-20-2013 07:47 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Alpha Mind, how is the level of English in Taipei? Do many younger girls speak it well?

and in Korea, Seol to be specific?

Post: #25

(09-20-2013 07:47 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Alpha Mind, how is the level of English in Taipei? Do many younger girls speak it well?

Most young girls who go to clubs here speak enough English. A lot of club girls here speak it near-fluently. Most of them want to get off the island for at least a short time and the only way to do it is to speak English.

To the second poster, the level of English is much greater Korea though, in my experience. Though the girls are way more shy.

My vote goes to Taipei for biased reasons. Vendetta, PM me if you wanna talk about Taipei.