Post: #1

Summary of my story:

Super cute when I was young, cute enough that women wouldn't take no for an answer.

Psychological issues, stopped doing much with women about 15 years ago.

Fell deeper into depression/betatude. Stopped the plunge about 2 years ago. About 2 months ago, I renounced MGTOW because I can't say I don't want something I can't get. I do want it and have had trouble with women asking me if I have a gf.

I'm still ok looking, I'm about 40 but look 25-30. I lift but have enough fat so that my abs don't show, naturally skinny but I do have some muscles because of the lifting. Good solid career that people don't associate with Gaming or Players, most guys at work are family men, gay, or awkward. I'm awkward and shy but I can be charming when I just let myself do what comes naturally and not worry if it's "working."

I keep getting things like, "Why don't you wear a ring?" "What does your wife do?" "What's your girlfriend like?"

It screws me up because I have a 10 year black hole in my past. What am I supposed to say about it?


I was with a masseuse yesterday (fully legit place, I don't do P4P). We talked and she refused to believe I don't have a gf. I had an hour session and she must have pestered me about it half a dozen times.

She asked if I liked bad girls or nice girls and I told her bad girls like me. She kept pestering me about the issue and I told her I'm too busy with work to have a girlfriend who takes too much time. She said I'm picky. Later she says "You must have lot of girls want you, you're a nice guy." I said there's lots of disappointed girls because I'm so picky. She laughed.

I passed a number of her shit tests. I passed the "I've dated black guys." test, the "I'm 30 and my son is 17." test. (She said "You're smiling." I replied "Yeah, I always smile when I get a math problem right." It took her a bit to get that one but she laughed.) I passed the "I have a bf." test, I passed the "I don't know why, but if I call my ex bf, he just send money, even if I not with him." test. Overall, I passed the "I'm a semi pro, do you have a problem with that?" test.

My goal is to shore her, one or more of her massage girls (she's the proprietor and a provider), and or one or more of her friends. I have a finite appetite for bullshit and I need a Red Pill woman. I personally have nothing against P4P and view guys who do it as Red Pill as long as they have the option to score without paying. In that case, they're paying cash to reduce trouble and save time. I have nothing against P4P girls because they are honest about what other girls lie about.

Now, I am fully aware that this masseuse may be gaming me into tips and return visits. She put me in the camel clutch and it was too hard (I thought the Iron Sheik was about to humble me) so I threatened not to tip her. I ended up tipping 20 because it was the best massage I've ever had. 20 is a reasonable tip, 10 is cheap, more than 20 would look like approval seeking or a down payment on future P4P.

So, my question for RVF members, is, how do I pass this shit test? I think the best thing is to lie. There's simply no way for me to explain 10 years of celibacy and depression and still be appealing. It was 10 years of what is called incel, 10 years of being a loser outside of building a career. 10 years of 0 social life. It's past and I'm back in The Game but stumbling bad over this shit test. It's not just AMP girls, it's cougars, waitresses, checkers, bookstore women, women on the beach, etc. They all hit me with this one and it's killing me.

Post: #2

"I don't think women are looking for anything long term these days"

Segway into "Look at that shit Miley Cyrus pulled" ..."That's what I have to choose from at the bars".

Just play with it. You'll find the right answer. If you get a bad reaction just smile and laugh like you're teasing. She'll laugh.

Post: #3

Just gonna throw out an idea, feel free to critique it.

Have you ever thought about being completely honest? Just completely shocking her with the truth?

If she keeps asking, just say 'are you sure you want to know?' If she says yes, then say 'it's not gonna be a happy story. Are you sure.'

At this point you will have piqued her curiousity, and depending on your story-telling skills, you have her in an ideal position to take her on an emotional roller-coaster ride.

I have done something like this before, and it can be quite powerful. If done right, it can create a moment of intense connection between the two of you, you baring your soul to her, leaving behind any facade of cockiness that was previously a big part of your interactions together. If anything it's a form of vulnerability game, and you show her that there is much, much more to you than meets the eye.

The key to this is that you have to feel it in the moment, let her relive your experiences through the way you tell your story, and get her a glimpse of what goes on deep inside of your mind. There is no room for dishonesty or incongruence in this approach.

Post: #4

Girl: "Why don't you have a girlfriend?"
Sexy JimNortonFan: "Oh, it's because I have no personality and no sense of humor whatsoever." (wink)

Post: #5

"Why would I want/need one?"

Post: #6

I've always said 'I was together with my last girlfriend for 5 years, we broke up 6 months ago and I've just been enjoying meeting new people since then' seems to work.

Post: #7

First, if she is a masseuse at a real massage parlor, why are you even linking that to p4p? I don't see the connection.

Second of all, just answer "I'm dating, but its complicated" or "i'm dating but I havent found the one yet."

Post: #8

"Its complicated" has to be one of the most valuable and powerful game tidbits ive ever learned.

Use it. Its right up there with shrugging.

Post: #9

(09-15-2013 12:35 PM)Vicious Wrote:  "Why would I want/need one?"

I like the direction of trying to communicate self-sufficiency of a man with options, but it comes across as a bit... well, bitter. Maybe it would sound better if I heard it in person, but right now I can't imagine it coming across in any other way.

Post: #10

has been discussed before on the forum but from what I remember this was a good one

" It's hard to find a quality girl these days "

Post: #11

Alot of good options, I tend to play the almost got married card but it did not work out.

I know deep down they want to get married or hitched in some way, so I play into that.

Then I usually get the love question, was I "in love". Which I will reply by saying "what is love"? Which they can never give me an answer.

Since you have been in such a drought, I highly recommend you don't game girls that work in the "industry". Maybe it is time to get out there and start daygaming and working on your skills.

Post: #12

(09-15-2013 12:44 PM)Pyre Wrote:  First, if she is a masseuse at a real massage parlor, why are you even linking that to p4p? I don't see the connection.

Second of all, just answer "I'm dating, but its complicated" or "i'm dating but I havent found the one yet."

Strong indications she's semi pro as stated in OP.

I think I'm going with it's complicated.

Thanks to all.

In reply to another post, why go for the industry? Why throw for the end zone when you can go 3 yards and a cloud of dust? More exciting, faster, less trouble, more fun.

Post: #13

(09-15-2013 12:42 PM)Statsi Wrote:  I've always said 'I was together with my last girlfriend for 5 years, we broke up 6 months ago and I've just been enjoying meeting new people since then' seems to work.

I myself use a variation of this, this 'I just got out of a relationship and it's just not the time for me to get back into one...' game, hell, when she (invariably) asks how or why it ended, sometimes I'll even add in exciting buzz words and phrases that pop like 'crazy', 'emotionally manipulative', 'wanted entirely different things', 'trust issues' or 'continually excessive demands' to better paint a picture.

Also:

'I'm actually seeing someone right now, but it's not too serious.'

'Let's just say that I don't have a girlfriend...but I know a girl who would be pretty mad at me if she heard me say that.' (Not once has this line not made a girl smile or laugh, thanks for that one, Mitch)

Post: #14

(09-15-2013 01:06 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(09-15-2013 12:35 PM)Vicious Wrote:  "Why would I want/need one?"

I like the direction of trying to communicate self-sufficiency of a man with options, but it comes across as a bit... well, bitter. Maybe it would sound better if I heard it in person, but right now I can't imagine it coming across in any other way.

It would only sound bitter if you look like a loser that can't nail a girl down. If you're a man with options however then that's exactly what you're indirectly communicating.

Post: #15

(09-15-2013 02:38 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

(09-15-2013 01:06 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(09-15-2013 12:35 PM)Vicious Wrote:  "Why would I want/need one?"

I like the direction of trying to communicate self-sufficiency of a man with options, but it comes across as a bit... well, bitter. Maybe it would sound better if I heard it in person, but right now I can't imagine it coming across in any other way.

It would only sound bitter if you look like a loser that can't nail a girl down. If you're a man with options however then that's exactly what you're indirectly communicating.

Oh, just realized a great line to the OPs question the second I wrote that reply.

"I don't like to tie girls down... I prefer to tie them up".

Might sound cheesy to some, with my deadpan deliver it's pure Christian Grey shit.

Post: #16

"I have a lot of girlfriends, but shhhhh don't tell them ; )"

This shit test is more of a way to hint she's interested I think. She see's you as desirable. If you say you don't have a girlfriend it lowers your value in her eyes imo.

Post: #17

(09-15-2013 02:51 PM)Fisto Wrote:  "I have a lot of girlfriends, but shhhhh don't tell them ; )"

This shit test is more of a way to hint she's interested I think. She see's you as desirable. If you say you don't have a girlfriend it lowers your value in her eyes imo.

Challenge her. "It'll take one hell of a woman to tie me down"

Post: #18

"My girlfriends are pissed at my mistresses right now. It's a mess, I don't want to talk about it"

Post: #19

(09-15-2013 02:51 PM)Fisto Wrote:  "I have a lot of girlfriends, but shhhhh don't tell them ; )"

This shit test is more of a way to hint she's interested I think. She see's you as desirable. If you say you don't have a girlfriend it lowers your value in her eyes imo.

Yeah this is the best response. Agree and amplify, this is what I do.

"Girlfriend? Why settle for just one?" (followed by a big smile)

"Tell you what, if you start today I might have you promoted to the 4th spot in the roster within two weeks!"

"All of my girlfriends have different skills. One can cook, another cleans, another cuts my hair, and another gives me massages. What can you do? (said with a shit eating grin) "Can you do kung fu? I've always wanted a kung fu girlfriend." (said while your arm is around her neck)

HAVE FUN ON YOUR DATES!!!!! That's the #1 to pass all shit tests without even trying.

Post: #20

Her: "Do you have a gf?"
You: "No, I'm not going to let these women catch me until I'm about 50 years old."

Post: #21

With a smirk say "I'm just lucky, I guess"

I don't know who said it here, but I stole this line from RVF with great success.

Post: #22

A lot going on here

1. How you feel about your 10 years being out of the game
2. Your boner-itis on fucking this one girl
3. Your misunderstanding of what game is
4. What you can do about it with this girl
5. what you can do in the future.

1. Period of Involuntary Celibacy.

This was voluntary celibacy. The only way you can be InCel, is if you're in a coma or disfigured.

Plugging out from the world of women and relationships after lack of success is kinda the norm. It's probably on the far end of the spectrum, but there are plenty of regular dudes that can't get with any girl, much less the girl they really want. So they basically stick to working, porn, and drinking beer.

They don't know how to get girls And it's something that you pretty much have to learn. Women learn how to get people to do things for them from an early age, and our society enforces that everyone serves women. That's how they're socialized.

She asks for it, she gets it.

Men on the other hand, are socialized to do everything themselves because no one is going to give it to them.

Naturals and people who study game, peel back this socialization. They get in the habit of putting themselves in situations where they have to ask people for things. In our circumstance, we're asking women to open their mouths and legs for us, as opposed to moving a couch up 4 flights of stairs.

But outside of the dating game, men generally have a problem with asking people for things. It's something in our culture that we have to learn to do. We're taught to be self reliant. And when we do work together, it's in a team, with a rigid hierarchy, where every man has a role.

Back to your issues - you really need to talk to someone about it. Maybe not a close friend, but a neutral party that will listen and facilitate you speaking from your heart about your experiences.

Once it's out of your system, (it'll never truly be out), you then have own it.

Most game dudes will have you reframe it, but I think you should own it, warts and all.

But you own it. You don't need to show it off to others.

Your game will improve when you embrace yourself, flaws and all.

If you continue to have that inner view that you're some kind of a loser, an untouchable, it will hold you back.

2. You really want to fuck this girl

And she's using this testosterone desire to hold you by the dick and lead you around.

Betas have one-itis.
Players have boner-itis.

You want to fuck a chick so bad that you'll do just about anything to get in her pants.

It makes you forget what game is.

Which leads me to point 3

3. You're misunderstanding game.

Game isn't about having the right answer to her questions.
It's not about having snappy one liners and great comebacks for every situation.
That's what game is portrayed as, gift of gab, unflappable, motor mouth, damn near freestyling like a 90's era West Coast Mc.

Game is about getting HER TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS.

Right now she's got you on the defense, and you're scrambling to pass each and every test she throws out.

You're not going to sink your dick into her snatch by having crisp statements that assuage all of her concerns.

You've got to turn the tables.

4. Tactics for this girl, and this line of questioning

A chick that's asking your past relationships, and you ain't been fucking bitches left and right, is looking for a reason to disqualify you.

This works on 2 levels
a) no girl wants a guy that no other girl wants (the exact opposite of how we look at it. If a chick is fine to me, big titties, nice face, nice ass - I don't need anyone else's approval. We are the independent sex, they are the dependent)

b) she can say something to you that puts you into an emotional tail spin - i.e. you're not strong mentally.

You are the rock, she is the storm.
You are the big soft grizzly bear that she can cuddle up next to and feel small and weak and protected.

If someone that's half your size and 1/4 your strength can defeat you mentally, what happens when you face something really tough? How can she depend on a weakling?

So in general to get past any sort of shit test - you have to interrogate the interrogator.

a) I've dated black guys before
- either you're not a black guy, and she's testing your Alpha to see if you're scared of her past and don't think you measure up
- you are a black guy - and she's saying that "you black guys are only after 1 thing"

In both cases, you say
- really
- how many
- how'd they catch your eye
- what'd they say
- how'd they compare to your regular guy
- did they just fuck you and leave
- and you went on with a second one? (slight disapproval)
- that's what you like though, you like being treated like a sex machine sometimes
- you like that they can see you for who you truly are, what you truly are...
- don't lie to me

You're trying to get her to admit to her true nature, cause you see it.
You want to get those memories flowing about her previous hook ups and affairs

You're taking control of the conversation, you're getting her to relive vivid things, you're guiding her down a path.

This is your job as a player.
To commandeer the interaction and make it go your way.

She's not going to ever be delighted calling the shots.

b) I had a kid at 13

She wants you to judge her for it, or give your undying Beta support for being a strong single mom.

You can dismiss, you can agree and amplify, you can ignore.

But you can also call her out on her motives.

"You tell everyone that?"
"what kind of reactions do you get"
"how do you feel about those reactions"

"you want me to judge you, so that you can judge me for judging you"
"are you trying to push me away"
"you gonna clam up on me now?"
"you realize now that you're not fucking with some boy, you're fucking with a man"
"are you ready to be real with me"

All these chicks throwing shit tests are trying to get you to "buy into their frame" - which basically means you're going to agree to the tone and possible reactions to her conversation by coloring within the lines, the lines of the picture that she sets and she controls.

c) Why don't you have a girlfriend?

Typical responses
- look at my options
- why don't you have a husband
- why do I need one

All that shit buys into her frame.

I'm gonna throw 2 options at you how to answer.

Option A - a playful option
Option B - the player option

Option A

U - "You really want to know?"
H - "Yes"
U - "Are you sure"
H- "Yes!"
U - "Are you really sure?"
H- "YES GOD DAMMIT YES"

And this is where you make up story and lie your ass off.

Because I'm a tad bit sadistic, i'll talk about a beautiful woman, the exact opposite of what she is.

I'll build this up, "what kind of girls do you think I like? But what kind of girls go for me"

She says X and Y.

"give me your hand"
*hold her hand the entire time*

You nod your head, and you then describe the almost perfect broad in your mind.

"She had alabaster skin, freckles, and...
*describe how you met*
*make it funny*
*meet her friends, they grill you*
*she meets your friends, they hi five you*
*meet the parents*
*she cooks, cleans, fucks, sucks, and is pretty good at call of duty*
*start getting serious*
*start saving up for a ring*
*you're just about to ask her to marry you*

She gets killed in a car crash.

*look away from her and longingly off into the distance*

"You believe in love don't you?"
"I guess you also believe bullshit too right?"

Start laughing.

Break the dramatic tension, and she starts laughing and hating you and laughing with you....

Again, standard game techniques of rich language, story telling, emotional leverage, persuasion.

Option B

"what did you ask me"
*she repeats*
"Say it slowly, so I can be sure"
*she repeats*
*change your mood and tone from mildly annoyed to deeply serious*

"look me in the eye, and ask me that question again"
*she repeats - but your change in tone and body language has shifted the power*

now you switch the conversation and retake the frame
"give me your hands" (always work in kino/physical touch in any pick up situation)
*take her hands, put your index fingers/thumbs on her wrists and feel her pulse*

"Why do you want to delve into my soul"
"Why do you want to take a close look at my heart"
"are you just making conversation?"

^^

This is where you begin basically breaking down her motivation for asking the question.

At no point are you going to tell her ANYTHING about you.

This is an exploration of HER.

You will start asking her questions.
You're winning when she runs out of good answers.

You've now got control of the conversation, she's seeking your approval.
She's investing.

5. Looking forward?

You need to get a handle on your past. You've got to come to grips with it and own it. Now I might not celebrate it and tell very Tomasina, Ricki, and Jane- because you don't want to give a girl a reason to disqualify you. But get to a point where you're cool with your past. It's tough and probably a daily battle at first.

Get a chick on the defensive asap. You'll be better off in the long run knowing how to run a conversation where you want it to go.

WIA

Post: #23

"I'm still searching for my soul mate."

Post: #24

There's a scene in the move The Patriot where Mel Gibson's character reads Lord Cornwallis' diary and says "I've just been inside the mind of a genius."

Mind blowing post. Thanks WIA.

I've talked with my brother and a close friend about the past. Neither really want to talk about it because my brother doesn't want to dredge his own stuff up and the friend doesn't get affected by pretty much anything so can't understand it.

I will counterattack after every shit test from now on.

Post: #25

The guys with all the cocky-funny answers are wrong. Why don't you have a gf isn't a shit test, its a comfort question.