Post: #101

i admit i look like fedor. i'm big, strong as fuck, but not ripped at all. seems to be working for me.

but there is some unseen pressure to be more lean. more lean more lean. more cut. and you're right its mostly vis a vis other dudes.

i'm already bigger than 95% of dudes i see on the street. why do I need to be even bigger?

Post: #102

After reading what everyone has said here and all that stuff on good looking loser and dager and play, I am convinced that having muscle will make a huge difference.

Out of curiosity, I'm going to put more effort into building my physique more.

Guys, what should I expect? It seems like there's a lot written on it here. Are there any links that you suggest that will outline a path?

Post: #103

(09-16-2013 12:31 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  My Thai girlfriend has been telling me my muscles are getting too big, and she doesn't like big muscles. She thinks they are gross.

Funny. They always hint at this if you've got some chub and start losing weight too. Mentioning that they don't want you to lose "too much."

Then I had one gf who always asked me why I wanted to go to the gym at all.

I think they worry that if you start looking too good you'll upgrade. Gotta love the strong undercurrent of female insecurity in Thailand.

(09-16-2013 10:57 AM)soup Wrote:  After reading what everyone has said here and all that stuff on good looking loser and dager and play, I am convinced that having muscle will make a huge difference.

Out of curiosity, I'm going to put more effort into building my physique more.

Guys, what should I expect? It seems like there's a lot written on it here. Are there any links that you suggest that will outline a path?

Seems like general consensus is that Starting Strength is the best route for a beginner. Beginning myself this week.

Here's a really good wiki that breaks down the program if you want to get started while waiting for the book to arrive: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/S...ength_Wiki They've also got a Kindle version of the book for about $10.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Rudyard Kipling

Post: #104

(09-16-2013 11:30 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(09-16-2013 12:31 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  My Thai girlfriend has been telling me my muscles are getting too big, and she doesn't like big muscles. She thinks they are gross.

Funny. They always hint at this if you've got some chub and start losing weight too. Mentioning that they don't want you to lose "too much."

Then I had one gf who always asked me why I wanted to go to the gym at all.

I think they worry that if you start looking too good you'll upgrade. Gotta love the strong undercurrent of female insecurity in Thailand.

(09-16-2013 10:57 AM)soup Wrote:  After reading what everyone has said here and all that stuff on good looking loser and dager and play, I am convinced that having muscle will make a huge difference.

Out of curiosity, I'm going to put more effort into building my physique more.

Guys, what should I expect? It seems like there's a lot written on it here. Are there any links that you suggest that will outline a path?

Seems like general consensus is that Starting Strength is the best route for a beginner. Beginning myself this week.

Here's a really good wiki that breaks down the program if you want to get started while waiting for the book to arrive: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/S...ength_Wiki They've also got a Kindle version of the book for about $10.

Why can't you you just do chin-ups and pushups or dumbells instead of going to the gym?

Post: #105

(09-16-2013 11:43 AM)soup Wrote:  Why can't you you just do chin-ups and pushups or dumbells instead of going to the gym?

The Armstrong Pullup Program would work pretty good in your case, yeah.

You can google that and do it or check out a review of it at this guy's blog.

Post: #106

(09-16-2013 11:43 AM)soup Wrote:  Why can't you you just do chin-ups and pushups or dumbells instead of going to the gym?

You can if you want. I don't think you will get gains as quickly though, in strength or physique.

But I'm not the guy to ask for advice about or debate on workout programs - I'm not in shape and am in the "advice-seeking" stage myself. Every workout philosophy comes with a set of beliefs behind it. You're best off going to the sources and reading what they have to say specifically and then deciding for yourself. Physical fitness is not exactly a science, so there will always be disagreement and back and forth on a forum.

If you're just looking for something to do at home with bodyweight, check out convict conditioning. I think it would be a good solution for travelers. Many people report finding it difficult to get big at all with it though.

I started on it a while back when I was still drinking a lot and honestly I just found it tedious doing those short workouts in my room. I could probably start again and stick with it now as I've gone through some major life changes, but I think going to a gym can be a good way to get out of the apartment if you already work at home (like I do) and want to mix up your day by getting out and about.

Those were some of the things I took into consideration this time around, anyhow.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Rudyard Kipling

Post: #107

@soup- because you need incremental progression on load over time. The barbell moves up in increments of 5lbs (2.5lb on each side). Dumb-bells move up in 10 lb increments (5lbs on each side).

160 and 5'11 is skinny. If you are new to the gym, w/rigorous training youll put on 10-15 lbs in a year. Your natural testosterone will be the thru the roof, and youll walk around "like your the shit".

I've swooped the hottest girls after hitting the gym i.e gym on friday, shower and go out. Something about the glow in your face, swagger, and pump in your muscles....

Chinups/situps are just for maintenance work when gym is unavailable.

Post: #108

I think of lifting heavy as medicine for your body because you are changing all kinds of things hormonally inside. It's not just about the muscle gain effect.

Some people can do very well with bodyweight exercises and so on. Nothing wrong with that. I've heard good very things about this guy's program, called "You are Your Own Gym":

You Are Your Own Gym

For me, I'll say that barbell weightlifting / strength training is the first exercise regimen I've gotten into where I actually feel better physically after doing it, and not just mentally because I did something.

Personally, I always found bodyweight/calisthenics type of stuff rather tedious, because you have to do so many repetitions. No doubt you can get very fit that way, though.

Post: #109

(09-16-2013 11:43 AM)soup Wrote:  

(09-16-2013 11:30 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(09-16-2013 12:31 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  My Thai girlfriend has been telling me my muscles are getting too big, and she doesn't like big muscles. She thinks they are gross.

Funny. They always hint at this if you've got some chub and start losing weight too. Mentioning that they don't want you to lose "too much."

Then I had one gf who always asked me why I wanted to go to the gym at all.

I think they worry that if you start looking too good you'll upgrade. Gotta love the strong undercurrent of female insecurity in Thailand.

(09-16-2013 10:57 AM)soup Wrote:  After reading what everyone has said here and all that stuff on good looking loser and dager and play, I am convinced that having muscle will make a huge difference.

Out of curiosity, I'm going to put more effort into building my physique more.

Guys, what should I expect? It seems like there's a lot written on it here. Are there any links that you suggest that will outline a path?

Seems like general consensus is that Starting Strength is the best route for a beginner. Beginning myself this week.

Here's a really good wiki that breaks down the program if you want to get started while waiting for the book to arrive: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/S...ength_Wiki They've also got a Kindle version of the book for about $10.

Why can't you you just do chin-ups and pushups or dumbells instead of going to the gym?

dude you can, if your starting out and in moderately good shape do p90x, use normal adjustable dumbells if you cant afford bowflex and the weight increases by 2.5lbs.

Post: #110

(09-14-2013 03:07 PM)basilransom Wrote:  Americans are more obsessed with success, with being perceived as being at the top of the food chain. Almost as if you're not in the top 10%, then you're a failure. So a good number of Americans try to prove to themselves they're top 10%. The body is no exception. Plus the girls are choosier, at least when fucking unknown men - they need to assure themselves that the guy they're dating fucking is a big daddy alpha. Probably the same thing goes on with height and penis size. I'm betting the extreme size queens get off more on the fact that they're fucking a guy with a huge penis, than the way it actually feels. Muscles is just one attribute, of course.

Also, while girls of all classes like muscle, lower class girls put more emphasis on it. A girl who runs with a rough crowd might write you off as a pussy for not having muscle, tattoos or piercings, while a little caveman action is enough to shake an upper class girl.

I'm not big, but I've gained considerable muscle. Personally, I enjoy the feeling of walking around with more mass. It makes me feel more rooted and present.

(09-14-2013 03:02 PM)pheonix500000 Wrote:  if you look at movies over the years how the majority of guys looked in the 1960's and now no homo, it isnt even in the same league in terms of muscularity,(eg thor) hell guys now have to look vastly different than how any male looked like up till 150 years ago to get ahead but girls protest if you want them to look like how they were for the majority of history which was skinny (unrealistic standards in their minds). my point is train hard, put yourself ahead of the curve the way you see fit and girls would still come.

Yes, I think this is a big part of it. Many girls have been convinced by the media that a man without a lot of muscle is a 'lesser' man.

(09-14-2013 02:49 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-14-2013 02:48 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Go to Google images and type:
renaissance art
greek statues

The idea male archetype/hero as being fit and muscular goes way back.

Women are soft. Men are hard. That's the natural order of things, anyway.

I don't think Houston is talking about looking like a greek statue. Girls still love that, and always will.

But in some parts of the country girls want you to be jacked on roids all the time.

Contrary to popular belief, there was some variation in the 'Grecian ideal.'

People like to cite David:



For one, a body like David's is impossible with the typical American diet and sedentary behavior.

Consider Hercules. Without steroids, it would take a naturally brawny man in peak condition to replicate a physique like that. It's not clear if the average man could ever get a physique like that naturally. His wrists alone look at least a standard deviation above the average, especially in Greece where the men are more gracile, as opposed to say, Scandinavia.

Back then - small penises were considered more aesthetically pleasing than large ones (which were considered comical and gross).

I was born 2500 years too late...

Post: #111

(09-14-2013 06:57 PM)TheKantian Wrote:  Well, the greeks were big on having their sculptures and art be the ideal representation. If you were to look at some Roman busts and sculptures you'll notice they weren't as big on idealism and more accurately represented a person.

Yes, I'm sure most RVF'ers will tend to agree that this Roman fresco is a much more accurate representation:


http://www.theoi.com/Gallery/F39.1.html

Post: #112

This article, describing a school in Norway was tweeted today by Roosh. It describes how boys are becoming more like girls:

Gender equality creates new school boys

I noticed a paragraph that seemed relevant here, with regard to the discussion of U.S. vs. Europe.

Quote:Metrosexual role models
A strong, well-defined, athletic body was the ideal for the older boys, who talked incessantly about each other's bodies in the locker room. One boy had read that football star Cristiano Ronaldo does 3,000 sit-ups every day, so he had started to do sit-ups every evening. He thought his ab-muscles were becoming more visible already and gladly lifted his shirt to demonstrate for the other boys.

"For young people today it's legitimate to try out new masculine expressions inspired by metrosexual idols like Ronaldo and David Beckham, who have their own lines of hair products and boxer shorts. This is different compared to 20 years ago when the role models were more traditionally masculine"...

Post: #113

Well I live in Australia, and pretty much everyone is big here, height wise. Average height here is 6'1, like the Nordic regions of Europe. Girls expect you to be tall. The chicks do constantly bring up my height . I am competing with 6'0+ guys at bars/clubs.
But I know it is that feeling of security I need to create, so this meansI need ot work on presense.

So what do I do physical looks wise ?
I'm 5'4.
Do I aim to get jacked or do I look to get moderate muscle ?

Also what other physical things( accessories, tattoos ) can I work on to give myself more presence.

Post: #114

(09-26-2013 05:41 AM)Fredster Wrote:  Well I live in Australia, and pretty much everyone is big here, height wise. Average height here is 6'1, like the Nordic regions of Europe. Girls expect you to be tall. The chicks do constantly bring up my height . I am competing with 6'0+ guys at bars/clubs.
But I know it is that feeling of security I need to create, so this meansI need ot work on presense.

So what do I do physical looks wise ?
I'm 5'4.
Do I aim to get jacked or do I look to get moderate muscle ?

Also what other physical things( accessories, tattoos ) can I work on to give myself more presence.

Wouldn't worry about the tatoos. They are becoming increasingly more common amongst people in their 20s-30s. Seems like tatoos are just a trend that would make you another face in the crowd. Used to be original and uncommon back in the day but since they are becoming more of a fashion statement, I'd shy away from them...but that's just me.

Post: #115

(09-26-2013 05:41 AM)Fredster Wrote:  Well I live in Australia, and pretty much everyone is big here, height wise. Average height here is 6'1, like the Nordic regions of Europe. Girls expect you to be tall. The chicks do constantly bring up my height . I am competing with 6'0+ guys at bars/clubs.
But I know it is that feeling of security I need to create, so this means I need ot work on presense.

Take heart. The ABS Report from 2012 on average male weight and height states The Average Australian Adult Male is only 5 Foot 9 Inches.

As long as you think your height will hold you back with women, it will hold you back with women. Insecurity is the turn off, not height. Own it. Agree and amplify.

I learnt game as a teen by cherry-picking techniques from guys who were all a good six inches or more shorter than me.

Post: #116

(09-26-2013 06:19 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(09-26-2013 05:41 AM)Fredster Wrote:  Well I live in Australia, and pretty much everyone is big here, height wise. Average height here is 6'1, like the Nordic regions of Europe. Girls expect you to be tall. The chicks do constantly bring up my height . I am competing with 6'0+ guys at bars/clubs.
But I know it is that feeling of security I need to create, so this means I need ot work on presense.

Take heart. The ABS Report from 2012 on average male weight and height states The Average Australian Adult Male is only 5 Foot 9 Inches.

As long as you think your height will hold you back with women, it will hold you back with women. Insecurity is the turn off, not height. Own it. Agree and amplify.

I learnt game as a teen by cherry-picking techniques from guys who were all a good six inches or more shorter than me.

Younger generation averages around 6'0 in Australia.

Post: #117

(09-28-2013 04:36 PM)DriftWood Wrote:  

(09-26-2013 06:19 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(09-26-2013 05:41 AM)Fredster Wrote:  Well I live in Australia, and pretty much everyone is big here, height wise. Average height here is 6'1, like the Nordic regions of Europe. Girls expect you to be tall. The chicks do constantly bring up my height . I am competing with 6'0+ guys at bars/clubs.
But I know it is that feeling of security I need to create, so this means I need ot work on presense.

Take heart. The ABS Report from 2012 on average male weight and height states The Average Australian Adult Male is only 5 Foot 9 Inches.

As long as you think your height will hold you back with women, it will hold you back with women. Insecurity is the turn off, not height. Own it. Agree and amplify.

I learnt game as a teen by cherry-picking techniques from guys who were all a good six inches or more shorter than me.

Younger generation averages around 6'0 in Australia.

I can only find a couple of generalised comments stating this online, with no links to verifying data sources.

From the ABS, by age range, showing a difference of not even 1.5 inches between 18 and 64. Over that, yeah, people shrink as they age.

Post: #118

Fucking centimeters. How are we supposed to read that?

Post: #119

Prole concern.

Post: #120

Everyone is 6'0" online.

According to that chart, 5'10" is the average for Australians, just like America.

Post: #121

It's the confidence boost you get. The pump lasts maybe an hour after. Lifting increases confidence because you feel good about accomplishing something

Post: #122

Why is America obsessed with being huge?

We Americans like to lift because it makes you healthier and feel good, just like any other exercise. My favorite part is not the pump or the adrenaline; it comes a few hours later, when you flex a muscle and feel it expand then pop against your clothes. That makes me feel great about what I'm doing and gets me psyched for the next session.

America is in general a sports-obsessed culture. Men like me who are not tall (I'm just over 5"8), not coordinated, not fast runners, and have poor vision are generally not good at team sports. Fortunately for us, we can go slam the weights for 2 or 3 years and develop an attractive healthy physique. The desire to excel physically is a natural desire of the masculine mind. Men like me can satisfy that desire through lifting.

For us shorter guys, lots of muscles makes up BIG TIME for not being tall or being bald because women love the strong natural confidence that a muscular body exudes. Trust me.

Post: #123

I think we Europeans were right. It isn't as big a factor as the other side were proclaiming. At all.

Not being fat and having an athletic body, having confidence, and having some game trump being 'jacked'. Especially if Europe is your destination.

Not in America though. That is no excuse to not working out hard by the way, just that trying to get that huge mass look is not appreciated.

Post: #124

How many guys are actually 'jacked' though? With high muscle mass and low body fat... 1%? Walk down an average street; even in countries like England, America or Australia where there is a large gym culture, where the men are bigger on average and actually make a note of how few stand out.

Give a consistent weightlifting program/diet a bit of time and you'll be in better shape and more impressive than the vast majority of men.

I believe its still important in Europe, and more so in the other Anglo countries (UK, AUS, NZ, CAN, SA) but just a bit less important than it is in America.

Post: #125

being 'jacked' is hard work, not many guys have the dedication to get there or else everyone would be

"According to a recent survey (cited in a 2006 BBC News online article), only twelve percent of the general population possess a gym or fitness club membership."

out of those people only a small percentage are "jacked"