Post: #151

This Syria warmongering is getting really stupid. We are supposed to be in a fiscal crisis, yet we always manage to find ways to pay for wars (or more accurately, we borrow to pay for wars). The talking idiots on TV say that Obama must strike Syria in order to provide a message to Syria & Iran that we mean business about our "red lines." No doubt Iran will also cross our imaginary "red line" sometime in the future, and we will have to declare war on Iran. We truly are fucked.

Post: #152

Kosko Wrote:As Scorpion has noted the USA has zero credibility. They are completely irrational and full of it.

Amen.

That said, I don't believe that this is being done for oil, or that even Libya or Iraq were. It's mostly about honest delusion, stupidity and the massive male hamster of the leaders of USA. I believe that Obama really believes in the ridiculous notion of having to intervene not because of lives lost but because of chemical weapons, or that oppression of women inspired more people to cheer war for Aghanistan than the removal of danger from terrorists did. If these people were motivated by anything concrete like oil, they would surely use more efficient means than attracting the hatred of the entire world to gain it. Instead, they're all behaving like Joker.

Post: #153

Wow so just about everyone seems to agree that intervention is stupid.

Legit.

Post: #154

(08-31-2013 03:46 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  Wow so just about everyone seems to agree that intervention is stupid.

Legit.

Yes. Nearly everyone is against intervention. All polls that I've seen have showed that support for intervention among the general US population is around 10%. The vast majority of the populace is tired of endless war without end. Whether this will stop Congress and the Executive from doing it is another matter altogether.

Post: #155

(08-31-2013 04:03 AM)Icepasian Wrote:  

(08-31-2013 03:46 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  Wow so just about everyone seems to agree that intervention is stupid.

Legit.

Yes. Nearly everyone is against intervention. All polls that I've seen have showed that support for intervention among the general US population is around 10%. The vast majority of the populace is tired of endless war without end. Whether this will stop Congress and the Executive from doing it is another matter altogether.

Also, the whole idea that we are somehow against chemical weapons is pretty laughable. We used agent orange in vietnam. Heck, John Kerry served in Vietnam, that is what I kept thinking when I hear him talking about how bad Syria is for using chemical weapons. "How can you forget Vietnam so easily?" is what I would ask him.

Post: #156

Please God let me ETS from the Army before our government lies its way into another unwinnable miserable war.

Post: #157

Anybody watch the speech. Some say it shows weakness some say he is doing the right thing. Idk but I think he did the speech knowing that Congress wont approve which leads me to wonder if he wanted to attack at all or will he attack without Congress approval.

Risky move Obama. Very risky.

Post: #158

(08-31-2013 02:53 PM)TexasMade Wrote:  Anybody watch the speech. Some say it shows weakness some say he is doing the right thing. Idk but I think he did the speech knowing that Congress wont approve which leads me to wonder if he wanted to attack at all or will he attack without Congress approval.

Risky move Obama. Very risky.

He may simply be trying to cover his ass so now he can say "look, i wanted to attack syria but the congress said 'no'."

Hopefully congress is aware that 90% of the country does not want another war in the mideast.

Post: #159

Obama asks Congress to authorize Syrian strike:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/31/obama-...an-strike/

^This is a wonderful development. Hopefully, Congress grows a spine and doesn't approve of this military action.

Post: #160

(08-28-2013 10:02 PM)3extra Wrote:  A little off point, but in honour of what RVF is all about:

Assad's wife

Didn't know there was white people in Syria, lol

Post: #161

(08-31-2013 03:08 PM)master_thespian Wrote:  

(08-31-2013 02:53 PM)TexasMade Wrote:  Anybody watch the speech. Some say it shows weakness some say he is doing the right thing. Idk but I think he did the speech knowing that Congress wont approve which leads me to wonder if he wanted to attack at all or will he attack without Congress approval.

Risky move Obama. Very risky.

He may simply be trying to cover his ass so now he can say "look, i wanted to attack syria but the congress said 'no'."

Hopefully congress is aware that 90% of the country does not want another war in the mideast.

I highly doubt he will act against Congress wishes, otherwise why ask them in the first place and defy them - how would you work with them in the future?

I haven't been paying attention but which party would be more apt to support this? In the last decade it seems the Republicans have been more hawkish but here they seem critical if Obama, and have not agreed with much of his agenda at all

Post: #162

Just emailed my congressman telling him to vote no to this insanity.

Don't know it will make a difference, I think he'll vote no anyways, but it made me feel better.

When you've got liberal "Responsibility to Protect" frauds like the well-named duo of women, Slaughter and Power, AND the chickenhawk neocon think-tankers like Kristol and Bolton on the same side, I'm on the other side.

Post: #163

(08-31-2013 03:14 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Kosko Wrote:As Scorpion has noted the USA has zero credibility. They are completely irrational and full of it.

Amen.

That said, I don't believe that this is being done for oil, or that even Libya or Iraq were. It's mostly about honest delusion, stupidity and the massive male hamster of the leaders of USA. I believe that Obama really believes in the ridiculous notion of having to intervene not because of lives lost but because of chemical weapons, or that oppression of women inspired more people to cheer war for Aghanistan than the removal of danger from terrorists did. If these people were motivated by anything concrete like oil, they would surely use more efficient means than attracting the hatred of the entire world to gain it. Instead, they're all behaving like Joker.

There is no ulterior motives, our hearts are in the right place and we believe that we should act as the world police. So it does annoy me when foreigners take a swipe at a country who has no other motives than to protect innocent lives.

With that being said, as an American I will say one more fucking time, we are not the World's police and I don't want us involved in anything that doesn't risk American lives or American vital interests, that is what the UN is for.

Post: #164

THe weird thing is I think in all these wars they NEVER tell us what it is really about. For instance in Iraq, I think the deal is we're scared of China getting the oil so we wanted to be in there first so they'd have to attack us to get which they won't do probably. We might have even told them that when we did it.

It's strange knowing that basically you have to assume everything they tell you is a lie.

Post: #165

Regardless of whom is at fault, its not wise to fuck around with politics in the middle east as a Westerner....the locals are all crazy, even the sane ones.

Post: #166

The only reason Obama is going to go to congress now is because David Cameron has been given the boot in his own parliament.

Obama doesn't want to appear as a tyrant circumventing his own constitution, which he was quite prepared to do had Britain joined him. All in the interests of 'peace.'

In the British press this morning they've written articles saying the 'no vote' will ruin Britain's standing in the world, allowing genocide to flourish etc.

As iknowexactly said - we have to take everything they say to us as a lie.

Post: #167

Calls to make a human chain in Istanbul on World peace day becomes reality today. People are on the street holding hand in hand and shouting "No to war!" Here are some photos:

Post: #168

(09-01-2013 05:07 AM)dk902 Wrote:  The only reason Obama is going to go to congress now is because David Cameron has been given the boot in his own parliament.

He's letting the culprits make a run for it and dig in. Has nothing to do with doing the right thing. Big red herring. Congress will approve, the strike will kill some civilians, the targets will nowhere to be found, and Obama won't save face with his fellow Muslim leaders.

Post: #169

Quote:To those who think the United States should intervene in Syria, remember this is the same United States which;

• is still deeply involved in two failed wars of aggression in Iraq and Afghanistan that have lasted for over a decade without coming to a conclusion.

• is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands, if not over a million Iraqis and Afghans through aerial bombardments, night raids, artillery shelling, ground missions, and genocidal sanctions.

• used depleted uranium and white phosphorous munitions in Iraq leading to a sharp increase in cancerous birth defects in areas like Fallujah.

• knowingly aided Saddam Hussein with intelligence while being completely aware that he was using chemical weapons against Iran.

• has systematically tortured and/or overseen the torture of prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, Bagram prison, Abu Ghraib, and numerous CIA rendition and black sites.

• is engaged in an illegal, vicious, and indiscriminate drone war in Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia which has murdered numerous women, children, and non-combatants with total casualties estimates ranging around 3,000-5,000.

• bankrolled (and refused to condemn) the Israeli army as they used white phosphorous shells to attack civilians at al-Quds hospital and a UN compound housing refugees in Gaza in 2009.

• continues to offer diplomatic cover for the brutal and expansionist Israeli occupation and provides weapons to the Israeli military as it carries out further crimes against Palestinians.

• actively supported dictator Hosni Mubarak and his torturous military regime with weapons for over three decades.

The US is the #1 weapons exporter in the world and does not consider the importing countries’ records on human rights or democracy a relevant factor.

• is now complicit in the massacres being committed by the very same Egyptian military under the coup government led by General Abdul-Fattah el-Sisi which has murdered over 1,000 people in cold blood in the last month.

• remains tightly allied with the monarchies in Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Bahrain in the suppression of their populations.

• armed and trained fundamentalists forces, including the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan, that eventually gave birth to al-Qaeda and similar groups.

• backed former Tunisian dictator Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali by sending 12 million in “security assistance” to suppress the popular uprising at the start of the Arab Spring revolutions.

• has left Libya, and consequently Mali, in a state of chaos after a 2011 supposed “humanitarian intervention” to remove Muammar el-Qaddafi.

• pushed the Pakistani military from 2007 -2010 to carry out dreadfully unaccountable operations in the SWAT, FATA, and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa which led to the death of 1,300 civilians and the internal displacement of nearly 4 million Pakistanis.

• is the #1 weapons exporter in the world and does not consider the importing countries’ records on human rights or democracy a relevant factor.

• currently maintains stockpiles of nuclear, chemical, and other banned weapons, such as cluster bombs.

• regularly persecutes and incarcerates its own dissenters, war resisters, and whistleblowers.

• does not want you to remember the horrors of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Agent Orange, and the Gulf War Syndrome.

The many atrocities committed by the Assad regime since the start of the Syrian revolution are absolutely unacceptable and the stories emerging from the country are completely heartbreaking. And in fairness, the war crimes committed by the many rebel militias operating in Syria, though lesser in number and intensity, are gruesome and also unacceptable. The recent chemical attacks are undoubtedly a very disturbing development. The 100,000 lives lost prior to these attacks were every bit as precious and the suffering of their families is no easier due to the type of weapons which killed their loved ones.

As an outsider, I cannot pretend to know what the answer is to resolving this conflict, providing justice to those who have been harmed, or building a stable and inclusive Syria for all its inhabitants. I am not sure that anyone knows. The Arab and Muslim states and various militias are divided by their specific interests. The large foreign powers all have their own agendas primarily based on competing imperial calculations.

Ordinary Syrians’ voices are being drowned out by the violence and more immediate concerns like seeking bread and shelter. (However, it is important to recognize that with all the focus on foreign Islamist fighters in the conflict, Syrians have remained active in the resistance, both armed and non-armed, to the Assad regime. They, of course, also make up the ranks of the government’s forces.)

http://www.onislam.net/english/politics/...hings.html

Post: #170

Post: #171

Congress will not approve a strike. So what will the Pres do then? Tail between his legs like the British PM? It is weird seeing the US President show weakness or respect for the Constitution. I dont know what to make of it. Personally I believe he doesnt want to go so he leaves it up to Congress who will strike it down and he saves face for trying to show compassion.

Post: #172

Tyrannical figureheads that kill, torture, maim, rape, and wage genocide against their own population is nothing new. It's happened 1000 times over in the past and it's happening today is several countries, and yet we don't get involved.

This is not about policing or protecting anyone. Not a single fuck is given anywhere in D.C. about Assad using chemical weapons against civilians.

"This kind of attack is a challenge to the world," Obama said

dem·a·gogue
ˈdeməˌgäg/
noun
noun: demagogue; plural noun: demagogues

1.
a political leader who seeks support by appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument.


From 1984:

"WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH"

"The Party’s modus operandi in maintaining power is to shift blame to a designated scapegoat, toward which all of its constituents’ hatred and violence may be directed."

"War is a necessary tool for Oceania because it keeps the standard of living in check, such that the inequalities essential to a totalitarian state remain in place."

Post: #173

(08-31-2013 11:35 PM)LoveBug Wrote:  

(08-28-2013 10:02 PM)3extra Wrote:  A little off point, but in honour of what RVF is all about:

Assad's wife

Didn't know there was white people in Syria, lol

Syrians are basically white, as far as it goes. They're pretty much right there with Italians and Greeks. If Greeks are white to you, well, Greeks and Syrians are pretty damn close. Much closer than say, Greeks and Russians.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4214/bhji.png

Post: #174

(08-31-2013 10:16 AM)master_thespian Wrote:  Also, the whole idea that we are somehow against chemical weapons is pretty laughable. We used agent orange in vietnam. Heck, John Kerry served in Vietnam, that is what I kept thinking when I hear him talking about how bad Syria is for using chemical weapons. "How can you forget Vietnam so easily?" is what I would ask him.

And we were behind Iraq when it used chemical weapons on Iran. We helped them coordinate the whole attack.

Total hypocrites.

Post: #175

Speaking of hypocrites and John Kerry...

http://watchdog.org/103764/john-kerry-1971-vs-2013/

Quote:In 1971, Kerry said America should stay out of internal civil wars in other nations – no matter how bad they might be – because history shows that is the right thing to do.

“The war will continue. So what I am saying is that yes, there will be some recrimination but far, far less than the 200,000 a year who are murdered by the United States of America, and we can’t go around — President Kennedy said this, many times. He said that the United States simply can’t right every wrong, that we can’t solve the problems of the other 94 percent of mankind. We didn’t go into East Pakistan; we didn’t go into Czechoslovakia. Why then should we feel that we now have the power to solve the internal political struggles of this country?

We have to let them solve their problems while we solve ours and help other people in an altruistic fashion commensurate with our capability. But we have extended that capacity; we have exhausted that capacity, Senator. So I think the question is really moot.”

In 2013, Kerry said America must intervene in what he admits is an internal civil war in another nation, because history shows that is the right thing to do:

“But fatigue does not absolve us of our responsibility. Just longing for peace does not necessarily bring it about. And history would judge us all extraordinarily harshly if we turned a blind eye to a dictator’s wanton use of weapons of mass destruction against all warnings, against all common understanding of decency, these things we do know.

“We also know that we have a president that does what he says that he will do. And he has said, very clearly, that whatever decision he makes in Syria it will bear no resemblance to Afghanistan, Iraq or even Libya. It will not involve any boots on the ground. It will not be open ended. And it will not assume responsibility for a civil war that is already well underway.”