Post: #1151

For those of you who missed the GGG vs Brook fight last night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUO_PI2AZ0s

Great fight!

Post: #1152

(09-10-2016 06:29 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 06:15 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  Interesting. I didn't think it was an unreasonable stoppage. Brook had been pawing at his eye for a while, and was repeatedly standing there with his arms down taking big punches as a jumped up 147lb fighter. His coach, who has known him since he was 9, thought the fighter was going to get badly hurt. To me it looked like that fight would be over before the end of the round. I would have liked to see a better finish, but don't personally think there was anything sinister in it.

Well here is the thing. If you ever fought either amatuer or pro, the only thing that blocks vision is typically a very swollen shut eye (which wasn't the case) or blood constantly dripping into your eye (Which wasn't the case either). All Brook had was a small bruise/contusion on both the upper and bottom of the eye. The swelling was almost nothing. He did not have a large mouse on either side. His nose was bloody but that was all I could see blood wise.

The fact that he could track the interviewer with both his eyes while talking looked pretty suspicious to me and he qualified his eye problems by talking about it very quickly. In Round 2 his eye was not really all that bad looking.

When GGG went into that flurry and Kell was dropping his hands and vocalizing at him, I was like WTF are you doing that for?! He isn't Floyd!

Anyway, I'm not really buying that whole eye was not able to see thing. He did not sound delirious in the post fight interview either.

No matter how you look at it, it was a strange fight. GGG was not the usual GGG we normally see. He looked slow like Hopkins said. He also was not accurate with punches either, like he normally is.

The only other thing I can think of, is if he could not defend well on that side because of non-visual damage to his eye we cannot see. I don't think I will rewatch the fight again to try and figure that out though and count the failed attempts.

Boxed in the amateurs for a while. Those are the things that typically block vision. Other things I've encountered are detached retinas and damage to the muscles of the eye, and in Kell Brook's case, a broken eye socket: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/37331915

All of which seem to me to be legitimate injuries which would cause a veteran trainer, particularly the one who had been in the corner for Benn vs McClellan, to decide enough was enough when his fighter was standing there with his hands down against one of the most devastating punchers of all time.

Again, to me, this is not suspicious. Ingle has a long history in the sport and with Brook (trained him since he was 9), and I suspect the McClellan fight weighs heavy on his mind. It was only a premature stoppage from a fan's point of view, and from the fighter's point of view.

To win, before the fight even started Brook needed to fight the perfect fight, avoid cuts or serious injury which stopped him avoiding ALL unnecessary punches, and still get lucky that GGG was having an off night. Since his vision was quite probably impaired, and he was starting to take a serious beating, there was simply no way he'd rally. I'll never blame a trainer for saving his fighter from himself. Brook will be back with a shot against Alvarez, Khan etc, and will make good money and enhance his legacy. A bad beating from Golovkin, and more damage to his eye, could have ended his career there in the ring.

Post: #1153

Looking forward to going to Dallas this weekend to watch Canelo vs Smith live at Cowboys Stadium.

Post: #1154

(09-14-2016 05:10 PM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  Looking forward to going to Dallas this weekend to watch Canelo vs Smith live at Cowboys Stadium.

I seriously considered going, but Texas obviously doesn't have sportsbooks. Instead, I'll be ringside at an event which is being held on Friday in Las Vegas. I saw odds for at least four of Friday's fights at one of the sportsbooks, but don't think any of them are a smart bet at all.

Post: #1155

Not sure what the odds on Canelo Smith are but no way in hell Smith wins a decision against El Hombre Rojo in Texas. Canelo is very flat-footed and takes a lot of the middle rounds off. He has problems with boxers that have good lateral movement. He does much better with fighters that will engage him. He has been getting better with his feints though. He dropped Kirkland and Khan using feints. I don't know enough about Smith too know wether he will engage or not. If he gets in the wheelhouse with Alvarez he will most likely get stopped. If he chooses to and can fight on the outside for twelve rounds he can at least lose a decsion.

Post: #1156

(09-14-2016 07:08 PM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  Not sure what the odds on Canelo Smith are but no way in hell Smith wins a decision against El Hombre Rojo in Texas. Canelo is very flat-footed and takes a lot of the middle rounds off. He has problems with boxers that have good lateral movement. He does much better with fighters that will engage him. He has been getting better with his feints though. He dropped Kirkland and Khan using feints. I don't know enough about Smith too know wether he will engage or not. If he gets in the wheelhouse with Alvarez he will most likely get stopped. If he chooses to and can fight on the outside for twelve rounds he can at least lose a decsion.

The odds are between -1100 and -1500 for Alvarez, which is really horrible. The over/under is set at close to even odds that the fight doesn't go 7 1/2 rounds. I don't like that at all and the consensus is that Alvarez will end it between round seven and ten. If they would give me an under 9 1/2 round prop, I would place a heavy bet on it. I can't do 7 1/2. They lost their shirts on the Alvarez/Khan fight by allowing an over/under eleven full rounds prop at decent odds, so I think they are trying to avoid making the same mistake again.

Post: #1157

Smith is not Khan though and vice versa.
Those odds stink.
I am not an active bettor just a successful prognosticator.
Obviously live dogs that are undervalued are where the money is at, but you don't need to hear that from me.

Post: #1158

(09-15-2016 05:57 PM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  Smith is not Khan though and vice versa.
Those odds stink.
I am not an active bettor just a successful prognosticator.
Obviously live dogs that are undervalued are where the money is at, but you don't need to hear that from me.

Smith can take a punch better than Khan, hits harder, and is a naturaly bigger guy than Khan. Khan has way better footspeed and handspeed than Smith. Khan has also faced better competition. The reason why Khan even lasted into the sixth round was that his footspeed and handspeed were making it difficult for Alvarez. Smith's blocking and durability should allow him to last at least a little longer than Khan did. Smith's problems are that he is flatfooted, doesn't move his head, and hasn't faced anyone remotely as good as Alvarez. I know Smith is getting a huge payday, but a competent manager does not take a guy directly from fighting bums not even ranked in the top eighty to headlining a pay per view against one of the top pound for pound guys in one of the biggest venues in the world. I'm trying to think of a time in history when a move like that was successful and can't.

Post: #1159

Smith is pretty much the definition of a "paper champ".

Post: #1160

Smith is an ok fighter. He'll be gone within the first 8 though I suspect. A big part of his problem here is that Canelo is better than him at all the things he's good at. Smith is a pretty good body puncher, but do you really want to stand in the pocket and trade body shots with a Mexican?

Smith's brother, Callum, is far and away the best fighter of the bunch - he could be a pretty good champ at super middle or light heavy.

Post: #1161

(09-17-2016 04:41 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Smith is an ok fighter. He'll be gone within the first 8 though I suspect. A big part of his problem here is that Canelo is better than him at all the things he's good at. Smith is a pretty good body puncher, but do you really want to stand in the pocket and trade body shots with a Mexican?

Smith's brother, Callum, is far and away the best fighter of the bunch - he could be a pretty good champ at super middle or light heavy.

I placed a heavy bet on the Alvarez by knockout prop. Only one casino let me do it. They said I was the only one who placed a bet or who even asked about it. The odds were horrible after I placed my bet. Smith could go the distance, but I doubt it, as do most people. A bit off topic, but the G Manifesto Las Vegas blueprint needs to change its ending from the Peppermill to Tacos El Gordo on the strip. Tacos El Gordo closed for a year, but is now back open and is usually completely packed, regardless of the hour. I come here to make money first, get some rest second. Girls come third, if I get any at all.

Post: #1162

Very impressed with Liam Smith's heart and toughness in thst fight. I think we have a new Arturo Gatti here. Yes, you read that right.

Post: #1163

What was Billy Joe Saunders thinking in not agreeing to fight Rosado as the co-feature last night? Saunders would have gotten a good payday, would probably have won close to every round, and would have become more well known to fans outside of the U.K. I don't get it.

Post: #1164

Are we going to see GGG vs Canelo now?

Post: #1165

(09-19-2016 01:50 PM)Chowder Head Wrote:  Are we going to see GGG vs Canelo now?

Probably not until at least 2017, but your question raises another important question, who are Golovkin and Alvarez going to fight until they fight each other? I actually think the days of guys ducking Golovkin are over. Golovkin/Brook did extremely well in the U.K. and even though it was on regular H.B.O. in the United States, it reached a huge audience. Golovkin is at the point where guys will make some serious money if they agree to fight them. That's why I think that guys like Saunders and Jacobs are in no way screwing around when they are now claiming that they want to fight Golovkin. Golovkin's next opponent will most likely be one of those two guys. Saunders supposedly has a tune up fight set for October, but he has pulled out of fights before, so I'm not so sure that fight will really happen. I think Jacobs at a New York venue is most likely Golovkin's next fight. When mid seven figures starts to become a possibility, that's when guys like Saunders and Jacobs start agreeing to fight him. One, two, even three million won't do it. I actually see Jacobs as Golovkin's biggest threat from anyone at 160 or below, even including Alvarez. People don't like Jacobs for some reason and I think he is pretty underrated. I see Golovkin winning that one, but Jacobs has more of a chance against Golovkin than anyone from middleweight or below. Saunders would be an easy opponent for Golovkin and less risky, but that guy seems like a nightmare to negotiate with, which is why I think there is more of a chance of Jacobs being Golovkin's next opponent.

As for Alvarez, I'm having trouble thinking who his next opponent will even be. Willie Monroe makes absolutely no sense. He's not a big draw, he is a southpaw, he's a runner, and he has the style which makes things uncomfortable for Alvarez. That fight would probably be a unanimous decision for Alvarez with Alvarez chasing Monroe all over the ring for twelve rounds. The Charlo brothers are high risk and low reward. Both of them struggled to sell out the Chelsea at the Cosmopolitan with both on the card and several other pretty big names. I was in the Chelsea a few nights ago and the venue is really small. A good place to watch fights, though. I see Alvarez beating both Charlos, but again, it wouldn't be easy and those guys don't sell tickets or pay per views. Same with Andrade, although I think he is slightly more skilled than both Charlos. The only guy I can really think of for Alvarez at this point is Saunders, who would be a much tougher opponent than Liam Smith, but who I see Alvarez edging on the scorecards. The fight could be pay per view in the U.K. and the money might be there to pay Saunders the five million he wants. He also not as dangerous as Golovkin or even Lemieux, so that may be a good opponent for Alvarez to ease into the middleweight division. I think that may be were Alvarez is headed. It's a shame the genius didn't just take that relatively easy Rosado fight. Then it would be very clear who Alvarez's next opponent would be.

Post: #1166

Eubank Jr would be a tasty fight with Golovkin in my view. He's the right kind of fighter to cause him real problems. He'd have to box out of his skin, of course, but he's a guy who could make for a very interesting match up. He has the 'X factor' (yuk) that could just throw Golovkin something he can't deal with.

Saunders is a good fighter, but straightforwardly so, and a level below GGG, so it's a close matchup for the first 6, with GGG stretching away thereafter to a post rd 8 KO in my view (or perhaps Saunders is cagey enough and disciplined enough to take GGG the distance and lose a shutout decision).

I like Jacobs, but think he has a few bad habits that GGG would exploit. In my view he over extends himself on the jab, and he has a nasty habit of bouncing away from contact then bouncing straight back. He does it 3 or 4 times in the first round against Mora, for example, and I think someone like GGG will stay and time him bouncing back in if he tries it. It'd be a good fight while it lasted though, and he'd probably make GGG work hard while he was still conscious.

Post: #1167

Apparently, according to Eddie Hearn, Tyson Fury is unable to be medically cleared to fight due to mental illness and will be stripped of all the belts he won from Wladimir Klitschko. This means that these belts will likely be up for grabs in what should be a Deontay Wilder (holding the WBC belt) vs Klitschko (logical #1 contender as he held those belts for a decade against all-comers) Heavyweight title fight for these vacant belts and all the marbles. Hopefully this fight will be made. Deontay's handlers clearly didn't think Wilder was ready for Wlad yet, but hopefully Tyson Fury's walk-in-the-park win over Klitschko will inspire them to make this fight.

I would like to hear other's opinions on:

Fury's mental illness-no news here, we all knew he was nuts, but to lose this golden opportunity to at least make a few more million before retiring, astounds me.

Ward-Kovalev. I can't stand Andre Ward's style. It is too similar to Bernard Hopkins style of jab, clinch, headbutt, repeat. I would love to see the Krusher win but Ward has not lost a boxing match since he was 12 years old. He has been inactive for two years though, and at this point in ones career ring rust becomes something that simply cannot be easily discounted. In the meantime Kovalev has been KO'ing everyone with the exception of the very wily, journeyman Chilemba.
This is truly a competitive fight, something we haven't seen in boxing at its highest level in a while.

Canelo-GGG: I was there in Dallas at the Canelo-Smith fight, it was suprisingly competitive. Smith came to fight and not get walked over, he just couldn't handle Alvarez's sustained body-attack. Unfortunately, he broke his right hand so he will remain inactive until May 2017. Golden Boy was hoping to make the Golovkin fight in Sept. 2017 (supposedly according to De La Hoya) but now that seems up in the air. Will Canelo fight GGG before he starts his decline, like Mayweather did to Pacquiao and Ray Leonard famously did to Marvin Hagler?

Please weigh-in.

Post: #1168

(09-26-2016 12:35 PM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  Apparently, according to Eddie Hearn, Tyson Fury is unable to be medically cleared to fight due to mental illness and will be stripped of all the belts he won from Wladimir Klitschko. This means that these belts will likely be up for grabs in what should be a Deontay Wilder (holding the WBC belt) vs Klitschko (logical #1 contender as he held those belts for a decade against all-comers) Heavyweight title fight for these vacant belts and all the marbles. Hopefully this fight will be made. Deontay's handlers clearly didn't think Wilder was ready for Wlad yet, but hopefully Tyson Fury's walk-in-the-park win over Klitschko will inspire them to make this fight.

I would like to hear other's opinions on:

Fury's mental illness-no news here, we all knew he was nuts, but to lose this golden opportunity to at least make a few more million before retiring, astounds me.

Ward-Kovalev. I can't stand Andre Ward's style. It is too similar to Bernard Hopkins style of jab, clinch, headbutt, repeat. I would love to see the Krusher win but Ward has not lost a boxing match since he was 12 years old. He has been inactive for two years though, and at this point in ones career ring rust becomes something that simply cannot be easily discounted. In the meantime Kovalev has been KO'ing everyone with the exception of the very wily, journeyman Chilemba.
This is truly a competitive fight, something we haven't seen in boxing at its highest level in a while.

Canelo-GGG: I was there in Dallas at the Canelo-Smith fight, it was suprisingly competitive. Smith came to fight and not get walked over, he just couldn't handle Alvarez's sustained body-attack. Unfortunately, he broke his right hand so he will remain inactive until May 2017. Golden Boy was hoping to make the Golovkin fight in Sept. 2017 (supposedly according to De La Hoya) but now that seems up in the air. Will Canelo fight GGG before he starts his decline, like Mayweather did to Pacquiao and Ray Leonard famously did to Marvin Hagler?

Please weigh-in.

I know very little about Wladimir Klitschko or Tyson Fury and haven't really followed anything above 175 since the Mike Tyson days.

Smith gave a very respectable performance, definitely came to win, and was giving me fits as I had heavy money on the Alvarez by knockout prop. The guy definitely has a future, especially if he stays at 154. I have to say his management is inept for taking him directly from fighting bums not even ranked in the top eighty to headlining a pay per view, fighting one of the best 154 pounders ever, in one of the biggest venues in the world. He will come back and will come back strong. They just need to move him slowly in the future.

I can't go to Ward/Kovalev, as I have to be somewhere both during the day on Friday and first thing Monday morning. I can't fly across the country twice in less than forty-eight hours. That would be really stupid. Even if I could go, I'm not sure I would. When dealing with Andre Ward, you either bet on him or don't bet on anyone. The guy has never lost as a pro and hasn't lost since he was a twelve or thirteen year old amateur, if he even lost then. What makes you think that he will lose now? Kovalev is clearly the best fighter he has faced in his pro career, but he still might not have the skills to hand Ward his first loss. Ward by decision is the most likely result, but it is boxing and anything can happen, especially in this fight.

Golovkin/Jacobs will very likely happen and it should happen on December 10 at either Madison Square Garden or Barclays. People are talking about Jacobs like he is some bum and this is a complete mismatch, but this would be Golokvin's biggest test to date. Most people also see it ending early, like withing five rounds, for some reason. Jacobs is a huge puncher and has good overall skills, but, and I was going over this earlier today, when has he fought a guy who has decent or good power? He fought Pirog, who has good power, but nothing like Golovkin's, and who knocked him out in the fifth round. He fought Quillin, who also has good power, and stopped him in the first round. If that fight had gone on, Quillin may very well have hurt him, but what happened was that Jacobs hurt him very early and it was all over.

Alvarez/Golovkin will happen and I say September 2017 is likely. Also, I'm pretty sure that either Alvarez or Golovkin made an offer to Billy Joe Saunders. I'm not sure as to who it was or when or where the fight would take place, but an offer was made to him by one of those two.

Post: #1169

I believe it was Canelo that was supposed to fight Saunders, maybe now that Canelo is out of commission GGG will fight him but I was under the impression that Chris Eubanks Jr. was campaigning for the GGG fight.

Ward has looked unimpressive in his last three outings against mediocre fighters.
I am going out on a limb and saying that Kovalev will take Ward.
Everyone is undefeated until they lose. Ward dosen't have a perfect amateur record he lost 5 times as an amateur.
The last fighter he fought of note was Carl Froch who fought a very competitive fight.
I think Ward is going to lose to Kovalev, but the odds are so tight I see your reluctance to bet on either.

Post: #1170

GGG vs Canelo would be interesting. Canelo has that defense-over-everything intentionally not flashy style that's typical of Mexican fighters, GGG is all out offense.

Post: #1171

(09-26-2016 09:59 PM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  I believe it was Canelo that was supposed to fight Saunders, maybe now that Canelo is out of commission GGG will fight him but I was under the impression that Chris Eubanks Jr. was campaigning for the GGG fight.

Ward has looked unimpressive in his last three outings against mediocre fighters.
I am going out on a limb and saying that Kovalev will take Ward.
Everyone is undefeated until they lose. Ward dosen't have a perfect amateur record he lost 5 times as an amateur.
The last fighter he fought of note was Carl Froch who fought a very competitive fight.
I think Ward is going to lose to Kovalev, but the odds are so tight I see your reluctance to bet on either.

Eubank has nothing to offer Golovkin at this point. "He doesn't have belt and he doesn't have pen." Golovkin is shooting for Jacobs, Saunders, and Alvarez for his next three fights, quite possibly in that order. As for Ward/Kovalev, it's a toss-up and I won't touch it, but if someone put a gun to my head, I would say Ward. Also, despite what the scorecards said, the Froch fight wasn't competitive. I've watched it countless times since it took place and it was a one-sided win for Ward.

Post: #1172

Jacobs, then Saunders, then Alvarez in Sept. souns about right for Golovkin's active fight schedule. The Jacobs fight probably being the most competitive, even though he was dropped by lightly regarded Sergio Mora in their first fight.
Ward vs Froch aside, Ward has been following the Al Haymon playbook and not fighting guys even in the top ten.
Andre Ward is a winner but his style is so unentertaining that he cannot even sell out his hometown venue, The Oracle. I hope he loses. Kovalev is as exciting to watch as Golovkin, IMO.

Post: #1173

(09-26-2016 10:59 PM)preppy Wrote:  GGG vs Canelo would be interesting. Canelo has that defense-over-everything intentionally not flashy style that's typical of Mexican fighters, GGG is all out offense.

I would definitely not describe the left hook-trading, phonebooth, style of fighting that is common of nearly all Mexican fighters in that way. That is the Cuban style of fighting embodied by Erislandy Lara and Rigondeaux, which is why they don't get the big fights. That and a lack of fan base in the US.

Post: #1174

I just can't see Ward losing. His mind, like Mayweather's, is a bit of a boxing computer and I just see Kovalev as being too limited to be able to keep up with the adjustments that Ward will work out.

Post: #1175