Post: #201

I went to a black church in Inglewood, as I was friends with some black girls in grad school.

Once we went into a restaurant and the closing tiem was some weird hour. The sign said somethign like, "If you aren't in here by 8:43, you won't be seated."

I didn't get it. The girls laughed. "They put that there because black people be going into a place that will close in one minute and keep it open all night!"

Then they laughed and laughed.

I thought that was fucked up that black people do that.

But black people tend to excuse bad behavior by blacks as saying, "Oh, that's just black people being black!" Then they laugh.

In other words, the culture is far too permission. It lacks a shame component. Black people don't call each other out for being shitty tipper, making a fucking racket in the movie theaters, etc.

It is very, "Take me as a we are," and that's why it's decaying.

Living in civilization means abiding by some rules and civility norms. I may not be "naturally" polite but that's the price we pay to live in a world with clean streets, stop signs, and roads.

Blacks seem unwilling to do that. I am sure everyone here has had to idle his car while some black kids look at you as they walk as slowly as possible through a crosswalk.

That's fucking rude, but white who call out that bullshit get called racist. And blacks refuse to call one another out. Hence the culture continues to be fucked.

Blacks need to start cleaning their own house and they may find that whites suddenly become less racist.

Post: #202

(07-28-2013 09:29 PM)Fisto Wrote:  I've often wondered if those liberal policies were intentional. You make people dependent on the scraps they dole out and you have built in votes. You keep them poor and having poor kids and your voter base grows. You keep them thinking they're entitled and victims who don't have another choice. As O'Rielly pointed out, how many commercials has anyone seen telling young black women to avoid getting pregnant?


That keeping people poor practice goes back to Roman times.

Even guys like HC, who are clearly smart, are stuck on past grievances and seem to largely be interested in historical reasons that black people haven't made it as a whole rather than solving the present situations plaguing their community.

Right now, there is no better place in the world than the U.S. for black people to thrive and be prosperous but all you hear is that racism is keeping the black man down.

You want racism?

Go anywhere else and see how that works out.

You know Fisto I like your writing and love your travel exploits.

But I see you are getting worked up and to be honest I don't know what it is like to be in your shoes and vice-versa.

As you can tell from this forum, most of the black dudes are in decent good positions including myself. So we are talking from how WE see it and quite frankly I don't expect you to see it that way.

I understand you don't like the whining, but I am not here to whine.

I don't know if I would agree about your comments regarding America being the best place for black people, I agree it is better than alot of other places.

Post: #203

(07-28-2013 09:43 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 09:36 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  I think that question has already been addressed pretty substantially in this thread, which has already passed its apex. Ultimately, the best way to understand issues in the black community - if you're really concerned - is to spend time in them and get to know real people. Otherwise, all you're doing is being a keyboard jockey and feigning interest in an area that you are truly ignorant about. There's nothing heroic about supposedly speaking your mind in an anonymous online forum. Hit up a black barbershop in a black neighborhood and see if those same convictions you claim to have come out. Go to the campuses of Howard University or Morehouse College and talk to the students you find there about your "beliefs." Good luck.

Although I do agree that it's laughable when white kids who never had a close black friend or black roommate have opinions, consider what you're implying.

Are you saying that black men are unable to have a civil discussion about race with white people?

If that's what you're suggesting, then it's not racism for white to to say, "Fuck the black community. If we can't have a fair, civil conversation without them getting offended and getting in my face, why should I care what happens to them?"

Like I said, my personal experience living and hanging with blacks is that it's nonsense to claim that society isn't racist or that cops aren't racist.

But also seeing black guys get all fucking offended and start wolf packing someone who disagrees with them does the cause no favor and only validates racism.

Indeed, I've heard more than one person say, "I was never racist until I actually lived around black people."

Blacks do more to advance racism than they do to prevent it.

What if black guys could have a civil discussion with whites without getting angry and self-righteous. Wouldn't that be a more effective strategy than to make white people too afraid to even have the conversation?

As I've shown throughout this thread, I don't mind having a discussion with people who disagree with me. I also agreed with some of the points made by Bill O'Reilly.

However, people need to know which lane is theirs. A white person has no business telling a black person about the black experience in the US. I wouldn't dare even try to tell a white person what it's like to be white in the US. I have no idea what that's like nor do I have any reason to think I should. It doesn't matter how many white friends I have or how many white women I've been with. I'm not white, therefore I do not know what it's like.

Post: #204

(07-28-2013 09:29 PM)Fisto Wrote:  I've often wondered if those liberal policies were intentional. You make people dependent on the scraps they dole out and you have built in votes. You keep them poor and having poor kids and your voter base grows. You keep them thinking they're entitled and victims who don't have another choice. As O'Rielly pointed out, how many commercials has anyone seen telling young black women to avoid getting pregnant?


That keeping people poor practice goes back to Roman times.

Even guys like HC, who are clearly smart, are stuck on past grievances and seem to largely be interested in historical reasons that black people haven't made it as a whole rather than solving the present situations plaguing their community.

Right now, there is no better place in the world than the U.S. for black people to thrive and be prosperous but all you hear is that racism is keeping the black man down.

You want racism?

Go anywhere else and see how that works out.

Whoa. Stuck? I'm a gainfully employed, well-traveled, and educated black man so I'm definitely getting mine.

At the same time, I'm not blind to the injustices that blacks have endured in this country and I would never begin to explore what the solutions are to the many problems facing blacks in this country without giving a proper examination of the history. That's only fair. That history is often what's missing in most of the discussions I have followed in these race threads. That's precisely the reason many of the intelligent black men on this forum refuse to participate in these threads.

Folks who could not possibly understand the black experience want to gloss over the vast majority of it that has been shaped by slavery and "legal" discrimination.

Think about how ridiculous the question of "are the effects of liberal policies more important than the history of slavery" is.

Slavery existed in the US from the 1600s up until 1865 - a hell of a long time for a true culture to emerge. Then until 1965 you had Jim Crow and many other discriminatory policies against black Americans - as in policies that effectively prevented blacks from accumulating wealth, climbing up socially, and kept them mired in debt/poverty.

At best, you can say that liberal policies designed to "benefit" African-Americans began in the last 30-40 years? Just a fraction of the time African-Americans endured under slavery and legalized racism.

Don't get me wrong, I'm thankful for being in a country that in spite of a painfully ugly past is able to give me the opportunities to have achieved the things I've acquired for myself. I wouldn't want to have grown up anywhere else. But I'm wise enough to understand that just because I've had these opportunities, not every other black person can or will.

I can't tell you how many times I've been on a plane or in a foreign country and have had people ask whether I'm in the military simply because they have never met a black person traveling for leisure.

I can't tell you how many times I've been a "first" in places of employment and social gatherings.

I have no doubt many other black guys on this forum can attest to that as well.

It is what it is.

Post: #205

Deleted.

Post: #206

I meant stuck in this conversation man....come on.

Post: #207

(07-28-2013 09:59 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  However, people need to know which lane is theirs. A white person has no business telling a black person about the black experience in the US. I wouldn't dare even try to tell a white person what it's like to be white in the US. I have no idea what that's like nor do I have any reason to think I should. It doesn't matter how many white friends I have or how many white women I've been with. I'm not white, therefore I do not know what it's like.

What if I say, "As a white man, my experience is that blacks are thugs who are looking to mug me. I didn't want to be around blacks because it only leads to trouble" Do you really have to accept my experience as true?

If you're saying that racism exists, then you are claiming to know what it's like to be white. Namely, you know that whites are treated better than blacks. How can you know this, when so many whites say that we are not treated better than blacks?

Incidentally, sometimes to best people to tell us about our experiences are outsiders. They have biases, sure, but no one is more biased about our personal experiences than we are.

Surveys show that 75% of people believe they are above average. Often we are the worst judges of our own competence and experiences.

Another problem with your approach is that it shuts down conversation. If you say, "Well, you can't tell me what it's like being black," then you're also saying, "You have to accept everything I say as absolute truth."

You simply can't have "real talk" when one side of the discussion says you have to accept everything they say as true.

Post: #208

(07-28-2013 09:43 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 09:36 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  I think that question has already been addressed pretty substantially in this thread, which has already passed its apex. Ultimately, the best way to understand issues in the black community - if you're really concerned - is to spend time in them and get to know real people. Otherwise, all you're doing is being a keyboard jockey and feigning interest in an area that you are truly ignorant about. There's nothing heroic about supposedly speaking your mind in an anonymous online forum. Hit up a black barbershop in a black neighborhood and see if those same convictions you claim to have come out. Go to the campuses of Howard University or Morehouse College and talk to the students you find there about your "beliefs." Good luck.

Although I do agree that it's laughable when white kids who never had a close black friend or black roommate have opinions, consider what you're implying.

Are you saying that black men are unable to have a civil discussion about race with white people?

If that's what you're suggesting, then it's not racism for white to to say, "Fuck the black community. If we can't have a fair, civil conversation without them getting offended and getting in my face, why should I care what happens to them?"

Like I said, my personal experience living and hanging with blacks is that it's nonsense to claim that society isn't racist or that cops aren't racist.

But also seeing black guys get all fucking offended and start wolf packing someone who disagrees with them does the cause no favor and only validates racism.

Indeed, I've heard more than one person say, "I was never racist until I actually lived around black people."

Blacks do more to advance racism than they do to prevent it.

What if black guys could have a civil discussion with whites without getting angry and self-righteous. Wouldn't that be a more effective strategy than to make white people too afraid to even have the conversation?

The problem is that it's hard for white people to want to sit down and talk about real racism. Alot of white People love to play dumb or deflect.

Post: #209

(07-28-2013 10:14 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 09:59 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  However, people need to know which lane is theirs. A white person has no business telling a black person about the black experience in the US. I wouldn't dare even try to tell a white person what it's like to be white in the US. I have no idea what that's like nor do I have any reason to think I should. It doesn't matter how many white friends I have or how many white women I've been with. I'm not white, therefore I do not know what it's like.

What if I say, "As a white man, my experience is that blacks are thugs who are looking to mug me. I didn't want to be around blacks because it only leads to trouble" Do you really have to accept my experience as true?

If you're saying that racism exists, then you are claiming to know what it's like to be white. Namely, you know that whites are treated better than blacks. How can you know this, when so many whites say that we are not treated better than blacks?

Incidentally, sometimes to best people to tell us about our experiences are outsiders. They have biases, sure, but no one is more biased about our personal experiences than we are.

Surveys show that 75% of people believe they are above average. Often we are the worst judges of our own competence and experiences.

Another problem with your approach is that it shuts down conversation. If you say, "Well, you can't tell me what it's like being black," then you're also saying, "You have to accept everything I say as absolute truth."

You simply can't have "real talk" when one side of the discussion says you have to accept everything they say as true.

Yeah. I don't personally have a problem with people talking about their "specific" experiences with people of different races. If you were the only white kid in a black school/neighborhood and got picked on and assaulted against regularly, then I think it's pretty understandable why you would feel negatively towards black people (assuming that's been the extent of your experiences with them).

But that's quite different from talking about historical events and the effects they've had on people as we've been discussing. The evidence is pretty clear that it wasn't Africans going to Europe and putting those folks on ships and sailing to the New World to have them work on plantations and so on....quite the contrary.

Post: #210

(07-28-2013 09:50 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  I went to a black church in Inglewood, as I was friends with some black girls in grad school.

Once we went into a restaurant and the closing tiem was some weird hour. The sign said somethign like, "If you aren't in here by 8:43, you won't be seated."

I didn't get it. The girls laughed. "They put that there because black people be going into a place that will close in one minute and keep it open all night!"

Then they laughed and laughed.

I thought that was fucked up that black people do that.

But black people tend to excuse bad behavior by blacks as saying, "Oh, that's just black people being black!" Then they laugh.

In other words, the culture is far too permission. It lacks a shame component. Black people don't call each other out for being shitty tipper, making a fucking racket in the movie theaters, etc.

It is very, "Take me as a we are," and that's why it's decaying.

Living in civilization means abiding by some rules and civility norms. I may not be "naturally" polite but that's the price we pay to live in a world with clean streets, stop signs, and roads.

Blacks seem unwilling to do that. I am sure everyone here has had to idle his car while some black kids look at you as they walk as slowly as possible through a crosswalk.

That's fucking rude, but white who call out that bullshit get called racist. And blacks refuse to call one another out. Hence the culture continues to be fucked.

Blacks need to start cleaning their own house and they may find that whites suddenly become less racist.

These are just cultural differences. Like once I was in Puerto Vallarta and rented a Jet Ski. I got an hour with it, and he said, that's an hour on "Mexican time" which means, sort of an hour, I can bring it back late. White people come from an Anglo-Germanic culture which is very obsessed with orderliness, punctuality and following rules. Other cultures such as black culture and Latin culture are much more relaxed with regards to time and following rules, which is why you can bribe a cop almost anywhere in Africa or Latin America and people aren't obsessed with showing up on time. Whereas you can't do that in England or Germany. Or look at how we deal with team rivalry in America versus the riots that may break out in Brazil or Argentina over a major upset. It's just how shit is and I don't make any big deal of it.

I'm not saying one way is wrong and one is right. But they will obviously clash if they are forced upon each other. Whites view blacks as undisciplined, and blacks view whites as uptight stiffs. You kind of see it on those Vitaly prank videos. The whites get really angry and offended when Vitaly calls them out on something, whereas the blacks tend to just laugh it off and be laid-back about it.

I think that's why in white culture, there always is some sort of rebellious counter-culture that emanates from the middle class that rejects the puritanism, law and order obsessed ways of WASP life. Whether it was beatniks, hippies, rockers, white hip-hoppers, punks, they was this need push-back and rebel against the stiffness of middle-class white values.

I think when you travel a bit and just accept the fact that cultures differ and it's not necessarily a threat. If blacks cross the street slow and whites fast, that's just the way it is. Is one way right and one wrong? I'd say no, there's just what we're used to and our own personal preferences, although we may annoy the hell out of each other.

Post: #211

(07-28-2013 10:10 PM)Fisto Wrote:  I meant stuck in this conversation man....come on.

It's all good. Personally, I haven't had any issues with your posts. You're honest enough to ask questions about things you don't know about instead of posturing like you have all the answers about such a complex issue. We good mang.

Post: #212

(07-28-2013 10:29 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 09:50 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  I went to a black church in Inglewood, as I was friends with some black girls in grad school.

Once we went into a restaurant and the closing tiem was some weird hour. The sign said somethign like, "If you aren't in here by 8:43, you won't be seated."

I didn't get it. The girls laughed. "They put that there because black people be going into a place that will close in one minute and keep it open all night!"

Then they laughed and laughed.

I thought that was fucked up that black people do that.

But black people tend to excuse bad behavior by blacks as saying, "Oh, that's just black people being black!" Then they laugh.

In other words, the culture is far too permission. It lacks a shame component. Black people don't call each other out for being shitty tipper, making a fucking racket in the movie theaters, etc.

It is very, "Take me as a we are," and that's why it's decaying.

Living in civilization means abiding by some rules and civility norms. I may not be "naturally" polite but that's the price we pay to live in a world with clean streets, stop signs, and roads.

Blacks seem unwilling to do that. I am sure everyone here has had to idle his car while some black kids look at you as they walk as slowly as possible through a crosswalk.

That's fucking rude, but white who call out that bullshit get called racist. And blacks refuse to call one another out. Hence the culture continues to be fucked.

Blacks need to start cleaning their own house and they may find that whites suddenly become less racist.

These are just cultural differences. Like once I was in Puerto Vallarta and rented a Jet Ski. I got an hour with it, and he said, that's an hour on "Mexican time" which means, sort of an hour, I can bring it back late. White people come from an Anglo-Germanic culture which is very obsessed with orderliness, punctuality and following rules. Other cultures such as black culture and Latin culture are much more relaxed with regards to time and following rules, which is why you can bribe a cop almost anywhere in Africa or Latin America and people aren't obsessed with showing up on time. Whereas you can't do that in England or Germany.

I'm not saying one way is wrong and one is right. But they will obviously clash if they are forced upon each other. Whites view blacks as undisciplined, and blacks view whites as uptight stiffs. You kind of see it on those Vitaly prank videos. The whites get really angry and offended when Vitaly calls them out on something, whereas the blacks tend to just laugh it off and be laid-back about it.

I think that's why in white culture, there always is some sort of rebellious counter-culture that emanates from the middle class that rejects the puritanism, law and order obsessed ways of WASP life. Whether it was beatniks, hippies, rockers, white hip-hoppers, punks, they were this need push-back and rebel against the stiffness of middle-class white values.

Exactly. Strict adherence to time and order is most definitely an Anglo-Saxon cultural trait. Many other parts of Europe are not even like that, particularly the Mediterranean countries. Neither are most cultures in the developing world (India, Brazil, etc).

Post: #213

(07-28-2013 10:31 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  It's all good. Personally, I haven't had any issues with your posts. You're honest enough to ask questions about things you don't know about instead of posturing like you have all the answers about such a complex issue. We good mang.

Oh, you mean like rudebwoy did?

(07-28-2013 11:22 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  I know what the solution is but I do not feel the need to discuss it here on an open forum.

Post: #214

Post: #215

(07-28-2013 09:07 PM)assman Wrote:  Question for the black guys: To what extent do you think the issues facing the black community stem from liberal policies?

Or do you think liberal policies help more than hurt?

Or do you think they are pretty much a non-factor and that the history of slavery and other factors (please elaborate if you would) are the big driving factors?

I hate dealing with blanket statements such as "liberal policies". It suggest that somehow conservative policies(Republican) would by definition be beneficial to blacks. Would gutting the department of education be good for blacks? Would cutting taxes on the rich help blacks? Would opposing national healthcare be good for blacks? Would dismantling anti-discrimination laws be helpful to black people? What exactly do conservatives promote that would be of benefit to black people? I'm asking a serious question. I can think of none, unless you happen to a wealthy black person.

You want to know what screws up black America? It's the flight of working class jobs over seas. Many poorer blacks have always disproportionately depended on working class jobs that paid a living wage. Construction, meat-packing, drywallers, manufacturing, things like that. Poorer blacks were hit with the double-whammy of manufacturing jobs going over seas and illegal immigrants taking over these industries in America. This destabilized the black family and made it difficult for working class black males to earn a decent living. So what are they going to do? They're not going to move back to Africa. So many turn to selling drugs and crime to get by. Blacks in New Orleans wanted those construction jobs after Katrina hit to rebuild their city, but these jobs were going to illegals from Mexico. People with no history in that city and that don't even belong there if they don't have documentation. Why didn't these jobs go to the poor blacks to rebuild? Blacks that would've been put to work, that would've spent the money IN the community rather than sending their earnings back to their families in Mexico. Which extracts money from our country and gives it to another. Then we wonder why they turn to crime to get by.

Post: #216

Fair points.

On the flip side, uptight whites built the most prosperous countries.

If someone wants a larger slice of the pie, shouldn't they conform to the baker's norms?

Hell, look at us men. We complain about American women but a man has sexual needs.

Rather than complain about women and how they discriminate against us, we learn game.

What if blacks said, "Ok, I'll play the white game of being uptight and following the rules?" He'd be call an Uncle Tom and ridiculed by other blacks.

Post: #217

(07-28-2013 10:48 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 09:07 PM)assman Wrote:  Question for the black guys: To what extent do you think the issues facing the black community stem from liberal policies?

Or do you think liberal policies help more than hurt?

Or do you think they are pretty much a non-factor and that the history of slavery and other factors (please elaborate if you would) are the big driving factors?

I hate dealing with blanket statements such as "liberal policies". It suggest that somehow conservative policies(Republican) would by definition be beneficial to blacks. Would gutting the department of education be good for blacks? Would cutting taxes on the rich help blacks? Would opposing national healthcare be good for blacks? Would dismantling anti-discrimination laws be helpful to black people? What exactly do conservatives promote that would be of benefit to black people? I'm asking a serious question. I can think of none, unless you happen to a wealthy black person.

You want to know what screws up black America? It's the flight of working class jobs over seas. Many poorer blacks have always disproportionately depended on working class jobs that paid a living wage. Construction, meat-packing, drywallers, manufacturing, things like that. Poorer blacks were hit with the double-whammy of manufacturing jobs going over seas and illegal immigrants taking over these industries in America. This destabilized the black family and made it difficult for working class black males to earn a decent living. So what are they going to do? They're not going to move back to Africa. So many turn to selling drugs and crime to get by. Blacks in New Orleans wanted those construction jobs after Katrina hit to rebuild their city, but these jobs were going to illegals from Mexico. People with no history in that city and that don't even belong there if they don't have documentation. Why didn't these jobs go to the poor blacks to rebuild? Blacks that would've been put to work, that would've spent the money IN the community rather than sending their earnings back to their families in Mexico. Which extracts money from our country and gives it to another. Then we wonder why they turn to crime to get by.

LOL. The Democrats are the ones who support illegal immigration the most. The whole reason there is a debate about "comprehensive immigration reform" is because Democrats are pushing so hard for it. Man, this discussion is getting pointless. Keep railing against conservatives while the Democrats sell black people up the river for votes.

Post: #218

(07-28-2013 10:29 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  These are just cultural differences.

This is America. If you don't want to live here and abide by some basic decencies, then you should move out.

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as culture here. We are a mixed cesspool of various "cultures" and there isn't such a thing as an American identity anymore.

Heck, people don't even know why they celebrate 4th of July anymore.

The problem with America is the whole diversity thing. And I don't mean in that in a racial context. I mean that in a cultural one.


Edit: It's funny how things are working out now. The easiest way for a government to control it's people is to destroy the culture. We have no identity or unity. Whatever rich culture we had died out years ago. Now we're a bunch of segregated, social media whoring, reality TV watching zombies that seem to care for nothing, while promoting the same PC bullshit over and over like we actually care.

What happened to believing in something legitimate? To doing community events and bonding with your fellow Americans?

It's too easy. The red-blooded American males(of all races) that have fought for the existence of America and it's values has long died out; instead replaced by a bunch of liberal, weak-minded PC fools that think being PC is the right way to expand their cultural growth by "moving forward".

Not my best writing but you get the point.

Post: #219

(07-28-2013 10:53 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  What if blacks said, "Ok, I'll play the white game of being uptight and following the rules?" He'd be call an Uncle Tom and ridiculed by other blacks.

Or he would be the current President of the United States?

Post: #220

(07-28-2013 10:24 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  The problem is that it's hard for white people to want to sit down and talk about real racism. Alot of white People love to play dumb or deflect.

Yep. It is hard. White people don't want to believe that racism exists.

But look at it from the white perspective.

If every black man, woman, and child left the U.S., would the white community even care? I would miss my friends but most whites would be very happy.

Black people need white people more than white people need black people.

Because of this, the burden is on blacks to convince whites to start seeing this from the black point of view.

Is that unfair? Yep. It's bullshit. And your point?

All of life is like this. There is no fairness or equality. If someone doesn't need you more than you need him, then you gotta play by that person's rules. If you don't, you lose.

Right now blacks are losing. If they want to win, they need to understand the basic power dynamic and change their behavior and rhetorical strategies.

If blacks say, "That's unfair," they get to be right. They also get to lose.

http://www.returnofkings.com/12198/what-...-necessity

Post: #221

(07-28-2013 10:58 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 10:53 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  What if blacks said, "Ok, I'll play the white game of being uptight and following the rules?" He'd be call an Uncle Tom and ridiculed by other blacks.

Or he would be the current President of the United States?

Obama's relationship with race is a funny one. He went to Chicago (where there are "real" blacks) and wasn't black enough. He was basically a failure.

Then white people saw him, as he was just "black enough" for them. Then they made his President.

Obama desperately tries being black. It's pretty sad to watch. I have more blackness in me than he does.

He's a dork, has never been in a fight, is a conformist, and is hen pecked by a masculine wife.

He was a black reject until whites elevated him and then suddenly 95% of blacks voted for him.

Obama offers lots of fodder on what it means to be "black."

Post: #222

(07-28-2013 11:01 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 10:58 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 10:53 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  What if blacks said, "Ok, I'll play the white game of being uptight and following the rules?" He'd be call an Uncle Tom and ridiculed by other blacks.

Or he would be the current President of the United States?

Obama's relationship with race is a funny one. He went to Chicago (where there are "real" blacks) and wasn't black enough. He was basically a failure.

Then white people saw him, as he was just "black enough" for them. Then they made his President.

Obama desperately tries being black. It's pretty sad to watch. I have more blackness in me than he does.

He's a dork, has never been in a fight, is a conformist, and is hen pecked by a masculine wife.

He was a black reject until whites elevated him and then suddenly 95% of blacks voted for him.

Obama offers lots of fodder on what it means to be "black."

So basically it's now you, as a white man, calling the black guy who's "playing the white game of being uptight and following the rules" an Uncle Tom...gotcha.

Post: #223

Quote:However, people need to know which lane is theirs. A white person has no business telling a black person about the black experience in the US. I wouldn't dare even try to tell a white person what it's like to be white in the US. I have no idea what that's like nor do I have any reason to think I should. It doesn't matter how many white friends I have or how many white women I've been with. I'm not white, therefore I do not know what it's like.

This thinking is beyond ridiculous and offers no value whatsoever. Typical left-wing marxist thinking - "only the proletariat knows what the proletariat knows." This is the definition of illogical ad-hominem.

1. "White" and "Black" are not some monolithic group whereby all Whites know what other Whites are feeling and all Blacks know what other Blacks are feeling. This is absurd and completely insane.

Why would a Black man from the Congo's have any idea of what a Black man's life in NYC is like? Just because they both have the same skin color? Or a Black man from Memphis vs. a Black man from NYC? In all cases the differences between the Black men will be large or extreme.

Group-identity politics is horseshit, because it assumes that the major identifying factor of our experiences is some arbitrary distinction which cannot be disproven to exist. Can anyone actually disprove that Black's all have the same experiences?

2. The only people who know what it was like to be a Black slave were the Black slaves that existed from 1600-1865. No one else does. Not their children, nor the present day Blacks of America.

Trying to inherit some legacy of an age 150 years ago is disingenuous because it clearly denies reality. You weren't slave, stop pretending that you have some kind of access to reality that no one else does.

It would be analogous to a modern day White man pretending he's got special access to knowledge of what it was like to be a farmer 150 years since both of them were White. 100% bullshit.

3. It is obvious that a White man and a Black man who grow up in the same neighborhood will have far more in common with each other than they will with people who exist in different continents and cultures yet share the same skin color.

Yet what HC posted isn't rare; I've seen a lot of Blacks talk about the "Black experience" as if it was some way of insulating their views from any criticism or rational thought from non-Black people. This is nothing more than a shaming tactic. Anyone with a strong brain knows to ignore such arguments.

Post: #224

(07-28-2013 10:53 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Fair points.

On the flip side, uptight whites built the most prosperous countries.

If someone wants a larger slice of the pie, shouldn't they conform to the baker's norms?

Hell, look at us men. We complain about American women but a man has sexual needs.

Rather than complain about women and how they discriminate against us, we learn game.

What if blacks said, "Ok, I'll play the white game of being uptight and following the rules?" He'd be call an Uncle Tom and ridiculed by other blacks.

The irony is that the reason blacks and whites have a somewhat separate culture in America is because white refused to integrate blacks into white society after slavery. After slavery we had the period of segregation and this is where the ghetto culture of hopelessness and despair was born and it continues to perpetuate. Contrast that with the way England treated it's post-slavery blacks there. They basically gave them full rights and integrated them into society. In fact intermarriage just made them essentially disappear. The blacks you see now in England are from the post-WWII wave of immigration from Africa and the Caribbean.

America made a huge mistake in not integrating blacks into mainstream society after slavery. Then there probably wouldn't be any separate black and white culture here. In my observation, blacks seem to behave better when dispersed a bit. Concentrating ghetto ass niggas in the projects is like one of the worst policies you can have, because that despair and ignorance and hopelessness just feed off each other into a never ending downward spiral. Better to spread them thin and you get less of that bad behavior reinforcing itself.

Post: #225

(07-28-2013 10:56 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 10:48 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 09:07 PM)assman Wrote:  Question for the black guys: To what extent do you think the issues facing the black community stem from liberal policies?

Or do you think liberal policies help more than hurt?

Or do you think they are pretty much a non-factor and that the history of slavery and other factors (please elaborate if you would) are the big driving factors?

I hate dealing with blanket statements such as "liberal policies". It suggest that somehow conservative policies(Republican) would by definition be beneficial to blacks. Would gutting the department of education be good for blacks? Would cutting taxes on the rich help blacks? Would opposing national healthcare be good for blacks? Would dismantling anti-discrimination laws be helpful to black people? What exactly do conservatives promote that would be of benefit to black people? I'm asking a serious question. I can think of none, unless you happen to a wealthy black person.

You want to know what screws up black America? It's the flight of working class jobs over seas. Many poorer blacks have always disproportionately depended on working class jobs that paid a living wage. Construction, meat-packing, drywallers, manufacturing, things like that. Poorer blacks were hit with the double-whammy of manufacturing jobs going over seas and illegal immigrants taking over these industries in America. This destabilized the black family and made it difficult for working class black males to earn a decent living. So what are they going to do? They're not going to move back to Africa. So many turn to selling drugs and crime to get by. Blacks in New Orleans wanted those construction jobs after Katrina hit to rebuild their city, but these jobs were going to illegals from Mexico. People with no history in that city and that don't even belong there if they don't have documentation. Why didn't these jobs go to the poor blacks to rebuild? Blacks that would've been put to work, that would've spent the money IN the community rather than sending their earnings back to their families in Mexico. Which extracts money from our country and gives it to another. Then we wonder why they turn to crime to get by.

LOL. The Democrats are the ones who support illegal immigration the most. The whole reason there is a debate about "comprehensive immigration reform" is because Democrats are pushing so hard for it. Man, this discussion is getting pointless. Keep railing against conservatives while the Democrats sell black people up the river for votes.

I'm non-partisan by the way, which is the closest thing to being red pill.