Post: #1

I love to drink.

Maybe not as much as your typical Friday night out crew, but I enjoy it.

But if I am out to game, I will almost always choose doing it sober.

None of this is revolutionary. Some of it can be found among the many threads here. Some of it are from my experiences, and I will share it here.

I want to narrow down the pros and cons of you drinking when it comes to game:

Pros
- Fun, social mood, 'state'
- Less hesitation
- Drink can be used as a tool (ie. allowing her to sip your drink to build comfort)

Cons
- Money
- Too many drinks and you can severely hinder your game
- Too many/often and it can affect your health, how you feel the next day

Not too bad. I'd take the pros over the cons for drinking. Besides, these cons aren't really a factor unless you drink too much. Two drinks is all I need anyways.

Now, the pros and cons of you staying sober:

Pros
- Remember everything
- More control over yourself
- Pick up on smaller signals. If she is constantly touching her hair, touching you in subtle ways, showing some nervousness etc. Hard to pick up when drunk


Cons
- Can be harder to get in social and fun mood
- More hesitation

Those are pretty much the basics, I might have missed a couple.

I'd like to discuss the more in depth sides of sober vs drinking game, as some of it cannot be explained by simple bullets.

I will focus on the following topics briefly:

State
Extroversion
Inner Game

State

When you drink, your night always starts on a high.

Your state is amplified by the alcohol. You are on top of the world. You don't have to be drunk and falling over to achieve this, and often enough a few drinks are enough to reach the sweet spot.

Problem is, there is nowhere to go but down. Throughout the course of the night, your state will slowly start to decrease. Drinking throughout the night can slow this down, but the decline is inevitable.

When you are sober, it is the opposite. You start on a low. With experience out sober, you become accustomed to it so that it is not so bad. Inevitably, with the night starting out, approaches happening, you start to increase your state. You build insane momentum. At the end of the night, you are on a high, even more so than the high you get from being drunk.

That is not to say you can't build momentum while drinking. It is just stronger when you are sober, I like to believe.

I am not saying because your decline in state you will not be able to pull at the end of the night either. But I do believe that being at a high state because of being sober and building momentum increases the chances of pulling at the end of the night, as opposed to being drunk and starting to sober up.

Extroversion

Some people say you are either an introvert, or an extrovert. Some say you can be somewhere in the middle. I say create another option, you could be all of the above.

I was always classified as a more introverted person. When I drank, I became more social, bringing out the extroverted side to me. I had the potential to become life of the party with the right amount of booze.

But never sober.

When I was out gaming, I'd become more social and witty around girls. Extroverted traits are necessary in night time environments when it comes to cold approaching.

Drinking exposes the extroverted side to you, and this is obvious. But if you are an introvert, such as me (by definition, at least), and can only be more extroverted when you are drunk, then you rely on alcohol to meet people and be social.

This can be changed. That extrovert side to you? You don't need alcohol to become it. In fact, its interesting by taking a perspective where you can learn from your 'drunk self'.

I'd reflect on how I'd act drunk, socially. I started doing these things sober. It was challenging at first, but you learn to calibrate. Eventually, it just flows naturally in the right environment. You learn to become high energy.

By doing this, you unlock the extroverted side to you, without requiring alcohol. So depending on the scenario, if I am out on a Friday night or at home instead by myself watching a movie, I can choose to be extroverted or introverted. Contrast that with someone who is always 'introverted' and when they go out they can't stand the shyness they have and drink just so they are able to talk to attractive strangers.

Inner Game

Now for what I believe is the most important part of sober game.

When I first started going out and getting my first kisses and makeouts and slight successes, I loved it. However, I was always drunk.

I felt like alcohol was my crutch. And truth is, for many guys, if not most, it is.

I wanted to be able to do the same thing, sober. Being able to make out with a girl I just met minutes ago sober was a challenge for me already. I wanted to be able to do it sober.

I eventually did, after a tough learning curve in getting used to the night environment sober.

I imagined myself pulling and getting a one night stand. I had never had one before, and if I could do it sober, I would be proud of myself. Once I did that, I felt a very strong high from my achievement.

Which brings me to my point, inner game. I believe attaining success with women without requiring alcohol, and being in a sober state builds deep confidence. Not the type you choose to exhibit, or are aware of.

Ever since I started to become really comfortable going out sober, I've had more people respond to me. Guys avoid eye contact and look down, girls show more interest and shyness. Also have had some very direct compliments from girls I had never heard before in my entire life.

'I figured out why I'm so awkward around you. You're so confident with yourself it is intimidating.'

On the other hand, success with women while drunk builds drunk confidence. A buddy of mine is great with girls. He doesn't get needy, teases, escalates, and shows some 'natural' qualities. Problem is, he can only do this drunk.

When he is sober or only one or two drinks in, he is like a scared rabbit.

This doesn't mean everyone only has drunk confidence, but I believe this is the case for most (95%+) of guys.

I also wanted to feel in the same state all the time. If I was out during the day on campus in between studying and lecture and I saw an attractive girl sitting by herself reading a book on a bench, I wanted to know I could do well, because I do great in the exact same state at just a different time of day. It's not as hard integrating day approaches into your life when you approach at night in the same state you are in all the time.

To conclude, I want to make it clear that I don't have any hate against alcohol and drinking. But I do have love for doing nights out sober. I know lots of you can have great nights out while drunk, and can pull successfully.

Game is game.

But I definitely encourage giving sober game a try. Even if it means only to learn how it affects your state. Or how much you can learn about your drunk self.

And maybe see how it affects you internally.

At worst you'll save some money and maybe a hangover in the morning.

Post: #2

If you are only confident when you are drunk, then you are not confident enough.

Post: #3

Instead of night sober game how about trying DAYGAME. I love to daygame. When in a bar I am fearless. Maybe too fearless, a couple guys wanted to ruff me up for talking to one of their fiances.

"What the hell you doing in a bar with your fiances, you already fucked up by putting a ring on it. Don't fuck up by getting your ass beat in front of her".

Post: #4

Did Doulos meltdown?

Post: #5

I've heard that alcohol doesn't so much help you become more extroverted as your expectation to become more extroverted. I think when you drink with the specific purpose to become liquid courage incarnate, your own desire to become more outgoing will have a stronger affect then your drink.

This has happened to me at several parties where I didn't drink to any excess at all, but I had a goal of having a good time and making a play at any attractive girls in the vicinity.

Of course this can all be boiled down to your basic confidence level and tolerance of alcohol.

Post: #6

I do so much better sober- the 3 or 4 drink mark. After that everything just seems to go down hill. Half the time it ends up working out when I'm wasted, the girl is even more drunk than I am.

Post: #7

My goal for the rest of the year is to bring my sober game to same level as my drunk game. I really don't enjoy alcohol anymore, except for the fact that it helps my game. Thanks for the post; like you said it's nothing new, but I like the way you put everything.
I've noticed the same thing about learning from what you do when you're drunk. I've done some pretty bold approaches when shit-faced drunk that I wouldn't have thought to do otherwise. Seeing that those things were possible helped me be more bold when sober.

Post: #8

I think things like Phenibut, L-Theanine are good alternatives for maintaining:

Quote:- Fun, social mood, 'state'
- Less hesitation

While negating

Quote:- Money
- Too many drinks and you can severely hinder your game
- Too many/often and it can affect your health, how you feel the next day

Post: #9

I always preferred being sober when I'm out. I drink enough to be social, and some nights I'd have seltzer and lime, or oj and seltzer in my hand to look like I had a real drink. I've had my moments when I was with a certain crew that likes to really drink, and I got lit and had a good time, but it was never the key to me enjoying myself.

Post: #10

I no longer drink when I go out at night. I just get a water or soda and lime.

When you're out getting drunk, the next day it is hard to judge what you did well and where you fell short - and thus tough to critique and improve your game.

I find that when I game sober, I am constantly improving. I am able to more closely analyze what I am doing well, and what I need to do less of. Even small nuances, like ones own posture, speech pace, etc are much easier to pick up on when sober.

Sober gaming allows me to look closely at my game, which in turn helps me improve my game.

Though I can't lie, my success rate definitely seems to be higher when I have a couple, (or several) drinks in me.

Post: #11

Now that I am older hangovers tend to be much more severe and still leave me foggy for a few days after I drink. So I am taking a break from drinking. Plus I am really trying to get as healthy and in the best shape I have ever been in an drinking does not coincide with those things.

Back in my younger years I was full fledged alcoholic, waking up in the back yard the next day with a blanket on me an not having a clue what I did the night before. Going out that night and doing it again. I have some crazy stories, banged a ton of girls, and should not be alive today. I dont regret living that life style for a few years but I certainly couldn't go back to it either.

Post: #12

pros:

- water is calorie free
- you save a huge amount of money
- going out sober builds a type of confidence that is hard to describe, girls will pick on this subconsciously
- your confidence won't be anchored to being intoxicated
- sober night game is more applicable to day game
- you will reach a point where you actually enjoy the clarity of mind, although at first it will feel very weird

cons:

- beer tastes good

Post: #13

i tend to drink 3 beers at home then go out. after 2-3 hours i will be completely sober. i only drink water at the bar.

i guess it's a cross between drinking and sober game as most of my closes towards the end of the night will be when i am sober.

Post: #14

(07-01-2013 11:43 AM)reino341 Wrote:  pros:

- water is calorie free
- you save a huge amount of money
- going out sober builds a type of confidence that is hard to describe, girls will pick on this subconsciously
- your confidence won't be anchored to being intoxicated
- sober night game is more applicable to day game
- you will reach a point where you actually enjoy the clarity of mind, although at first it will feel very weird

cons:

- beer tastes good

Pretty much.

Last night I went out with my buddies, and we hung out in the hot tub beforehand. It was great to be having a beer, be able to enjoy it and relax.

That's all I had though, one drink.

Last week I actually had a night out drunk in the same venue as last night. I had much more fun and from a game perspective, did much better last night sober.

I really enjoyed McQueen's post on RoK on steps to a night out: http://www.returnofkings.com/13321/11-st...-night-out

I took from it and made it specific to me, so I have an almost identical list now with some minor changes.

Step six is to have one drink. I think if you have some time before you have to head out to relax, a single drink taken with time while doing some activity that you enjoy or while listening to uplifting music is a great way to start your night.

Post: #15

I tend to drink a lot when I go out (embarrassment emoticon). Vodka straight and juice on the side, plus an occasional beer to cool down.

On this particular night I was alone with three thirsty girls. We downed what remained of a previous bottle (more than half), plus two more: