Post: #101

How many people on the thread went to church today?

Post: #102

(05-26-2013 11:13 PM)Sherman Wrote:  I do think there is a connection between religion and morality because the bottom line is that if someone doesn't believe in an afterlife there is no reason to be good. Religions have the notion that if you do bad it will follow you in an afterlife. In the West you are judged by a god, and in the East you reincarnate until you work off your bad karma. Bottom line - you can't escape from your bad deeds. If you are an atheist and you want to die with huge debts and murder a few enemies - bottom line - it won't make a damn bit of difference to you in the long run. As the quote attributed to Dostoevsky says "If God does not exist, everything is permitted".

This would imply that people who don't believe in god commit more immoral acts than those who are religious. I've yet to see any evidence for this. Whole western and northern Europe would be a total war zone then.

Morality comes from empathy and has a biological origin. It is of course affected by cultural and religious influences...but to think that religions is a prerequesite is wrong, imho

Post: #103

You don't need morality to be good. Evolution has evolved morality into us. Which makes sense since if God doesn't exist (and I don't think he does) then Evolution must have played the role.

Check out the Price Equation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_equat...f_altruism

Interestingly - the biologist who discovered this occasion ended up going mad. He was freaked out that his work showed that there was no need for God for humans to be moral. It took away his last reason for believing in God.

He ended up having religious visions and becoming a full blown convert to Christianity, gave away all his posessions to the poor, and giving up his house for live in his house - before later comitting suicide.

Really interesting stuff.

Post: #104

Since we are living in a culture civilized by religion, most of us are being shielded from the full depravity of human nature. It is easier to be any atheist when you are being protected at many levels you never notice. Even people in Europe who no longer follow religion are basically secularly Christian since they have adopted the behavior patterns. An atheist growing up in a Christian culture, can act identically to a Christian. Christianity has moderated the behaviors of people in power, eventually eliminating things like slavery. Atheists still don't seem to confront the basic issue - if there is no afterlife, there is no reason to be good. You may decide to be good, but your neighbor may equally decide to be a mass murderer. Under atheistic philosophy, you can't say your decision was any better than your neighbor's decision, and under your philosophy you will both be exactly equal 1000 years from now. Not everyone makes the same decision, and under atheism everything is permissible.

Post: #105

My parents both believe in God but never indoctrinated me.

Left to my own devices, I did not decide to believe in some being that turns inobedient women into salt pillars, any more than I chose to believe in Vishnu or whatever.

They are all just ancient stories from thousands of years ago. Just old stories from the Bronze Age that some people still believe, when we've left most of that behind already.

Except, most Christians don't really seem to believe the Bible either. I don't know any who really live by its commandments or believe all the crazy shit it says. Yet they call themselves Christians more for the community aspect of it I guess.

If you believe in God and Heaven and Hell and Eternal Damnation if you don't follow His Word, then why would you be on a forum like this trying to bang as many sluts as you can? Isn't that a sin? If you don't care, then what is the point of admonishing atheists?

Well, unless you believe in the old testament polygamy type of shit. Which I don't think most Christians officially do anyway...

Maybe really the whole thing is in-group out-group. "We" are Christians. "They" are not. Maybe it's not even about God or the rules. Clearly people don't follow the rules, or even care about them or even know most of them.

If all you want out of religion then is some form of patriarchal power, well, I guess in that sense it's failing too, if you view it as some counter-balance against feminism etc.

Post: #106

(05-27-2013 11:12 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  My parents both believe in God but never indoctrinated me.

Left to my own devices, I did not decide to believe in some being that turns inobedient women into salt pillars, any more than I chose to believe in Vishnu or whatever.

They are all just ancient stories from thousands of years ago. Just old stories from the Bronze Age that some people still believe, when we've left most of that behind already.

Except, most Christians don't really seem to believe the Bible either. I don't know any who really live by its commandments or believe all the crazy shit it says. Yet they call themselves Christians more for the community aspect of it I guess.

If you believe in God and Heaven and Hell and Eternal Damnation if you don't follow His Word, then why would you be on a forum like this trying to bang as many sluts as you can? Isn't that a sin? If you don't care, then what is the point of admonishing atheists?

Well, unless you believe in the old testament polygamy type of shit. Which I don't think most Christians officially do anyway...

Maybe really the whole thing is in-group out-group. "We" are Christians. "They" are not. Maybe it's not even about God or the rules. Clearly people don't follow the rules, or even care about them or even know most of them.

If all you want out of religion then is some form of patriarchal power, well, I guess in that sense it's failing too, if you view it as some counter-balance against feminism etc.

^I highlighted a good point of yours. I live near the bible belt, and as far as I can tell Christianity is mostly a community thing. Its adherents interpret the bible as they see fit, following what they like and ignoring the parts they don't like. I mean there are advertisements for strip clubs right next to advertisements for mega-churches in the bible belt.

It is also true that Christianity is really not a counter-weight against feminism anymore. Read a blogger by the name of "dalrock" if you want to see just how useless Christianity is in regards to holding back feminism. In many ways, Christianity has swallowed and accepted most of feminism without a whimper.

To me, religion is fine if you want to practice it, but I am not going to pretend that bullshit actually has any meaning in today's world.

Post: #107

I think most people who claim to be "religious" are actually very irreligious in the way they approach their faith. Religion has been very resourceful for many people allowing them to change their lives and overcome many difficult circumstances. The problem is that throughout history societies used religion as a way to rationalize inhumane acts like genocide and also as a method of exercising power over people. Even some religious people nowadays have a condescending attitude towards people of other faiths because they believe that only their way is the "right way". Atheists are no different. Many atheists follow their figures like Richard Dawkins similar to how a Christian follows Jesus or a Muslim follows Mohammed. In my opinion the path to enlightenment begins with disassociating yourself from the need to identify with a belief system, whatever that may be.

Neil Degrasse Tyson talks about this pretty well

Post: #108

(05-27-2013 11:04 AM)Sherman Wrote:  Since we are living in a culture civilized by religion, most of us are being shielded from the full depravity of human nature. It is easier to be any atheist when you are being protected at many levels you never notice. Even people in Europe who no longer follow religion are basically secularly Christian since they have adopted the behavior patterns. An atheist growing up in a Christian culture, can act identically to a Christian. Christianity has moderated the behaviors of people in power, eventually eliminating things like slavery. Atheists still don't seem to confront the basic issue - if there is no afterlife, there is no reason to be good. You may decide to be good, but your neighbor may equally decide to be a mass murderer. Under atheistic philosophy, you can't say your decision was any better than your neighbor's decision, and under your philosophy you will both be exactly equal 1000 years from now. Not everyone makes the same decision, and under atheism everything is permissible.

SWPL in the US morality and ethics is basically a secularized version of American Protestant Christianity. There's a similar situation in Northern Europe. Despite people there being mostly anti-religion they pretty much adhere to a secularized version of Pietistic Lutheranism - Protestant work ethic and all that.

And I never could really completely accept the model that evolutionary fitness is what is behind altruism and morality. At best it explains altruism towards people within your family or tribe. There's so many acts that are considered to be moral that endanger not only your own survival but also does nothing to help out those who are genetically similar to you.

Post: #109

(05-27-2013 11:04 AM)Sherman Wrote:  Since we are living in a culture civilized by religion, most of us are being shielded from the full depravity of human nature. It is easier to be any atheist when you are being protected at many levels you never notice. Even people in Europe who no longer follow religion are basically secularly Christian since they have adopted the behavior patterns. An atheist growing up in a Christian culture, can act identically to a Christian. Christianity has moderated the behaviors of people in power, eventually eliminating things like slavery. Atheists still don't seem to confront the basic issue - if there is no afterlife, there is no reason to be good. You may decide to be good, but your neighbor may equally decide to be a mass murderer. Under atheistic philosophy, you can't say your decision was any better than your neighbor's decision, and under your philosophy you will both be exactly equal 1000 years from now. Not everyone makes the same decision, and under atheism everything is permissible.

^This is bs.

People always form governments, and it is governments that dictate behavior. In cases where the government didn't like religion (some Communist countries), it burnt down churches/mosques/temples and outlawed the practice of religion.

Furthermore, the "Golden Rule" (treat others as you would like to be treated) has existed since at least the time of Aristotle (348 BC - 322 BC), if not before, so you can't say that it is only religion that tries to influence behavior. There are entire branches of philosophy that are dedicated to ethics for a reason. Governments and the fact that people tend to seek out revenge for wrongs committed against them play a bigger role in moderating behavior than religion does.

Post: #110

(05-27-2013 12:54 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 11:04 AM)Sherman Wrote:  Since we are living in a culture civilized by religion, most of us are being shielded from the full depravity of human nature. It is easier to be any atheist when you are being protected at many levels you never notice. Even people in Europe who no longer follow religion are basically secularly Christian since they have adopted the behavior patterns. An atheist growing up in a Christian culture, can act identically to a Christian. Christianity has moderated the behaviors of people in power, eventually eliminating things like slavery. Atheists still don't seem to confront the basic issue - if there is no afterlife, there is no reason to be good. You may decide to be good, but your neighbor may equally decide to be a mass murderer. Under atheistic philosophy, you can't say your decision was any better than your neighbor's decision, and under your philosophy you will both be exactly equal 1000 years from now. Not everyone makes the same decision, and under atheism everything is permissible.

^This is bs.

People always form governments, and it is governments that dictate behavior. In cases where the government didn't like religion (some Communist countries), it burnt down churches/mosques/temples and outlawed the practice of religion.

Furthermore, the "Golden Rule" (treat others as you would like to be treated) has existed since at least the time of Aristotle (348 BC - 322 BC), if not before, so you can't say that it is only religion that tries to influence behavior. There are entire branches of philosophy that are dedicated to ethics for a reason. Governments and the fact that people tend to seek out revenge for wrongs committed against them play a bigger role in moderating behavior than religion does.

Governments have supported religion because there aren't enough policemen to create a civil society so it's necessary to internalize good behavior. Thomas Jefferson didn't believe in some of the central dogmas of Christianity but he still donated money to churches, because he believed that morality was important for democracy. And how do you moderate the behavior of the elites? In the past, it wasn't possible for any one man to gain absolute power. King John signed the Magna Carta because his nobles had the muscle to make it wise to do so. But, things have changed. With advanced technology it might be possible for an elite to enslave the world. Under atheism, why shouldn't they, because under atheism the only certainty is might makes right. What about an atheist elite who would like to enslave the rest of us, and they could do it with the aid of technology. Stalin and Mao killed millions without any problems. An atheist doesn't really have any good arguments to persuade the elite to restrain themselves. Scholarly papers on theoretical ethics written by beta professors doesn't cut it.

Post: #111

"When did Atheism become trendy?"

Maybe when it dawned on people that their is zero credible evidence for believing in moronic fairy tales.

Post: #112

(05-27-2013 12:29 PM)Jazzman92 Wrote:  I think most people who claim to be "religious" are actually very irreligious in the way they approach their faith. Religion has been very resourceful for many people allowing them to change their lives and overcome many difficult circumstances. The problem is that throughout history societies used religion as a way to rationalize inhumane acts like genocide and also as a method of exercising power over people. Even some religious people nowadays have a condescending attitude towards people of other faiths because they believe that only their way is the "right way". Atheists are no different. Many atheists follow their figures like Richard Dawkins similar to how a Christian follows Jesus or a Muslim follows Mohammed. In my opinion the path to enlightenment begins with disassociating yourself from the need to identify with a belief system, whatever that may be.

Neil Degrasse Tyson talks about this pretty well

Here's the difference: Dawkins isn't positing something. He's just disproving something else.

Christians claim that not only is there a god, but Jesus was the son of god. They have no way to prove this.

There is no atheist faith.

It's up to religious people to convince me why they should have so much power in society.

Also, maybe Jesus was just a zombie.

Post: #113

(05-26-2013 09:30 PM)cardguy Wrote:  I'm an Atheist. But here is a question I never hear believers answer...

Let's say there is a God. Great.

Now what?

What is this God like? Is he good, bad or indifferent?

My point is this. The issue of God's existence is separate from what moral qualities such a God may have.

As such - you are taking a gamble if you wish for there to be a God. Since there is no logical reason why God shouldn't be Evil, and is just laughing his head off before condemning us all to an eternity of torment and misery in hell.

Or he could be totally indifferent - neither good nor bad.

Or he could be good.

The point is that we have no way of knowing. And that the Goodness and Badness of a Creator is a separate issue from whether or not such a Creator exists.

Yet everyone continues to think that one implies the other.

It doesn't.

Assuming that God is real, he clearly is not good. He's an alpha overlord who does what ever he wants for his own amusement and does not care about the good of society.

Why?

Because he is above society.

The closest thing to god that exists are rich people, or anyone else who is able to exist above the society's rules.

If you are a grown man and you worship god, you might be a closeted homosexual. Specifically, a bottom. You want a more dominant force to watch over you and tell you what to do. If god told you to bend over and take it in the ass, you'd do it just because he said to do it.

As far as talking about religion on a player's forum, the real lesson to take away from religion is that you want to dominate women with the same intensity and power that religion/god dominates the minds of it's peons.

There are no half-assed religions. The ones that work are very powerful.

Same with game. You don't want it to be an uphill battle. You want to utterly dominate the set, whether it be some girl you've met on the subway, or a room girl who have come to your rock show.

The quest is how to make that possible and easy.

Post: #114

(05-28-2013 12:25 AM)soup Wrote:  If you are a grown man and you worship god, you might be a closeted homosexual. Specifically, a bottom. You want a more dominant force to watch over you and tell you what to do. If god told you to bend over and take it in the ass, you'd do it just because he said to do it.

Cool, so basically 99% of men in history have been homos on the sly?

Shit, its a miracle that humanity is still around.

Post: #115

(05-28-2013 12:27 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 12:25 AM)soup Wrote:  If you are a grown man and you worship god, you might be a closeted homosexual. Specifically, a bottom. You want a more dominant force to watch over you and tell you what to do. If god told you to bend over and take it in the ass, you'd do it just because he said to do it.

Cool, so basically 99% of men in history have been homos on the sly?

Shit, its a miracle that humanity is still around.

At the very least I'd argue that they have more potential to be submissive to the alpha male. So, if not gay, than essentially underlings.

I'd argue that 99% of men living in this country are beta slaves to women.

Post: #116

(05-28-2013 12:30 AM)soup Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 12:27 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 12:25 AM)soup Wrote:  If you are a grown man and you worship god, you might be a closeted homosexual. Specifically, a bottom. You want a more dominant force to watch over you and tell you what to do. If god told you to bend over and take it in the ass, you'd do it just because he said to do it.

Cool, so basically 99% of men in history have been homos on the sly?

Shit, its a miracle that humanity is still around.

At the very least I'd argue that they have more potential to be submissive to the alpha male. So, if not gay, then essentially underlings.

I'd argue that 99% of men living in this country are beta slaves to women.

That's pretty harsh. Maybe it's true. It's like saying that every man who's followed another man, such as political leader, has been a fag and beta. So even the most alpha of Mongols with a harem of Asiatic maidens who wasn't named Genghis Khan was a homo.

Post: #117

Any topic on religion, no matter what aspect of religion eventually turns into a debate on the merits or truth value of religion. Personally, I'm still interested in hearing what other people have to say on the subject of atheism becoming trendy today in the same way that being into feminism, being into progressive politics, being a "nerd", being into yoga and the like is with people who tend to be on the edge of "cool" things. Even you anti-religion atheists out there do have to admit that these days there calling yourself an atheist is a way to make yourself look like you are the cutting edge and that you aren't some boring, dullard red state hick. Not saying that that's the reason all people are atheists but you have to admit that must be a factor with some of the more vocal ones.

Post: #118

(05-28-2013 12:35 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 12:30 AM)soup Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 12:27 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 12:25 AM)soup Wrote:  If you are a grown man and you worship god, you might be a closeted homosexual. Specifically, a bottom. You want a more dominant force to watch over you and tell you what to do. If god told you to bend over and take it in the ass, you'd do it just because he said to do it.

Cool, so basically 99% of men in history have been homos on the sly?

Shit, its a miracle that humanity is still around.

At the very least I'd argue that they have more potential to be submissive to the alpha male. So, if not gay, then essentially underlings.

I'd argue that 99% of men living in this country are beta slaves to women.

That's pretty harsh. Maybe it's true. It's like saying that every man who's followed another man, such as political leader, has been a fag and beta. So even the most alpha of Mongols with a harem of Asiatic maidens who wasn't named Genghis Khan was a homo.

Those guys were running entourage game, riding the coat-tails of Khan. And, the other choice was probably death. That's a big carrot and stick. I don't think they were worshiping him in the privacy of their own bedroom by kneeling down and saying prayers or whatever (unless they believed that he was god).

Either way, god is more like Genghis than Jesus.

He's AMOG. He's an asshole.

If he was real, I would still hate him. He brings suffering to the world.

Post: #119

One great line I remembered from Roissy's comment section:

Anon Wrote:Religious chastity was created by a bunch of motherfucking alpha dudes to keep bitches in check.

You are a bitch.

That's why being religion is blue pill: It's a belief structure meant to delude the people for the benefit of other people.

If you're not the puppet master in that story, you're the puppet, you muppet.

Post: #120

(05-28-2013 01:35 AM)sixsix Wrote:  One great line I remembered from Roissy's comment section:

Anon Wrote:Religious chastity was created by a bunch of motherfucking alpha dudes to keep bitches in check.

You are a bitch.

That's why being religion is blue pill: It's a belief structure meant to delude the people for the benefit of other people.

If you're not the puppet master in that story, you're the puppet, you muppet.

Yet somehow increased secularism has seemed to only bring feminism and gender androgyny in its tow, while centuries of religious civilizations maintained patriarchy.

I await an atheistic nation which not only fends off feminism but confidently asserts a red pill ethos. Such a nation does not as yet exist.

Post: #121

(05-28-2013 01:39 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 01:35 AM)sixsix Wrote:  One great line I remembered from Roissy's comment section:

Anon Wrote:Religious chastity was created by a bunch of motherfucking alpha dudes to keep bitches in check.

You are a bitch.

That's why being religion is blue pill: It's a belief structure meant to delude the people for the benefit of other people.

If you're not the puppet master in that story, you're the puppet, you muppet.

Yet somehow increased secularism has seemed to only bring feminism and gender androgyny in its tow, while centuries of religious civilizations maintained patriarchy.

I await an atheistic nation which not only fends off feminism but confidently asserts a red pill ethos. Such a nation does not as yet exist.

That nation exists in my bedroom.

Post: #122

Analogy #1: Astronomy

Charismatic con artist saying he can read the stars in your fucking hands: game, and sociopathy, recognized.
Gullible customer paying real money to alleviate their fears, doubts and desperation: beta retard.

Analogy #2: The Birds and The Bees

Player saying 'girls are more sexual but is often repressed by society to control them' to smash and smash quickly: game.
Male feminist actually believing in the sad, sad victimhood of women: beta bitch.

So, similarly with religion:

Cult leader getting groupies, or father protecting daughter: good for you.
Normal dude actually believing some superior dude is watching and judging him: HAA! GAAYYY!

Post: #123

I would argue that agnosticism is trending much more than atheism. The atheists are just much louder. Particularly because.. the agnostics just don't give a fuck.

Post: #124

(05-28-2013 01:47 AM)sixsix Wrote:  Analogy #1: Astronomy

Charismatic con artist saying he can read the stars in your fucking hands: game, and sociopathy, recognized.
Gullible customer paying real money to alleviate their fears, doubts and desperation: beta retard.

Analogy #2: The Birds and The Bees

Player saying 'girls are more sexual but is often repressed by society to control them' to smash and smash quickly: game.
Male feminist actually believing in the sad, sad victimhood of women: beta bitch.

So, similarly with religion:

Cult leader getting groupies, or father protecting daughter: good for you.
Normal dude actually believing some superior dude is watching and judging him: HAA! GAAYYY!

you mean astrology I assume, Astronomy is a real science....

Post: #125

(05-28-2013 06:48 AM)bojangles Wrote:  you mean astrology I assume, Astronomy is a real science....

Not according to the bible!

(Yeah, I meant astrology.)