The Soccer Thread
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Going strong · 2017-05-05 10:40:00 · #3226
britchard · 2017-05-05 14:46:00 · #3227
I've been restraining myself from posting but I've finally cracked.
Juventus are perennial losers, they are deluding themselves if they think they are even near the top 10 clubs in the world in terms of fame and prestige.
The only Italian players are the 50 year old keeper and centre backs, any good Italian players have moved abroad or will soon move abroad (i.e. Verrati), who along with Belotti is their only excellent player under 30.
They are still masturbating over the mid 90s to early 2000s era, which anyone with their eyes open can see has long passed. Most stadiums aren't even 2/3 full.
Juventus are perennial losers, they are deluding themselves if they think they are even near the top 10 clubs in the world in terms of fame and prestige.
The only Italian players are the 50 year old keeper and centre backs, any good Italian players have moved abroad or will soon move abroad (i.e. Verrati), who along with Belotti is their only excellent player under 30.
They are still masturbating over the mid 90s to early 2000s era, which anyone with their eyes open can see has long passed. Most stadiums aren't even 2/3 full.
Skank_Hunt · 2017-05-05 16:19:00 · #3228
britchard, it sounds like you are a fan of an EPL club?
If I were a fan of one of the big EPL clubs (Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City), I would be really, really, really pissed off!
Juventus buys players for next to nothing then sells them at huge prices to EPL clubs and still all english clubs have to watch Juventus school other teams in the Champions' League from their TV!
The only one purchase I would say is not a good move from Juventus is actually Higuain. Yes, he scored 2 against Monaco and has done well in the league, but 90m euros? That's not the clever way Juve usually does business. Higuain is still a bit overweight and he doesn't score enough in the Champions' League. If we had a ~20m striker like a good Llorente against Monaco I think that would have been enough. Tevez would have done better than Higuain in this years Champions' League, and he's old. I don't know why Juve paid 90m for a player who is old and fat. If he was a young talent like Dybala with many years to come, OK, but why pay 90m for a 29 year old, it makes no sense. I would prefer Morata, poor Morata who sits on the bench for Real. Morata is a born finisher, young, quick, lethal in front of goal. His minutes to goal ratio is excellent. 40m for young Morata > 90m for old fat Higuain. I still think Higuain is a top player, but he is just too old and too unfit. You can solve the unfit part, but the old part you cannot solve. So it was stupid so buy him for 90m. Juve should have kept most of the Pogba money and bought a better value striker.
That's my only criticism of Juve in the transfer market. Other than Higuain, Juve have made all clubs like Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal etc. look like fools. This is why english fans are angry at truly great teams like Juve, because they school them with less than half the budget. The EPL has huge TV rights that Serie A just cannot match. The Juventus stadium is one of the only stadiums to be full in league matches. It was built smaller for approximately 40k capacity for a reason, a full stadium is better atmosphere than none. As for players like Matri, he didn't cost that much and Juve sold him and others like him anyway. Matri did quite well when Juve didn't have the top players yet coming back from Serie B.
Here you can see EPL already bidding huge amounts for Monaco Mbappe. Juve will stay out of that kind of nonsense. He has emerged as an exciting prospect, but a lot of people said similar of Martial. No one knows how it will go. Figures of 110m bid by Man City and 90m bid by Man Utd thrown about for a player who has impressed in just one single season, they are just silly. EPL clubs keep doing that while Juventus fans laugh and watch their team continue to outperform all english clubs. Conte is a good coach but if he faces this Juve next year in the Champions' League, he will need a lot of luck to avoid an asswhooping.
The major curse of Juventus is that they lose all Champions' League finals going back to 96 when they last won it. In each year, except maybe 2015 when Barca was the strongest side in Europe, Juventus was overall the best team in Europe and the team feared the most by opponents. The thing about European finals is that it is a one off game, there is no two legs, no league, nothing: just one game. 97 v Dortmund, Juve was too complacent in facing a relatively unknown underdog and was shocked by Dortmund's quick attack and determination. I would say Juventus was thinking they already had won the cup the way they played. 98 v Real Madrid, a pretty even game but Juve's big players didn't turn up, such as Zidane (who later moved to Real), the best player in the world at the time, he was anonymous. The biggest threats Juve had were very quiet, perhaps due to nerves and pressure of being the most feared team in Europe, and so it was a draw until an offside goal decided the game - a bit of luck for either side and it could have gone either way. A team that makes 3 finals in a row in the Champions' League is over that period the best in Europe. In 2003 against Milan it was a typical Italian final, boring, defensive, not much in it, Juve's big players again didn't turn up, and penalties is largely luck. 3 finals lost in a row in years where Juve was the best team in Europe. Today I think Bayern is perhaps the best team in Europe, just a bit ahead of Juve, but Bayern had a lot of bad luck and played a couple bad games against Real, so they got knocked out, but this does not mean Bayern is inferior. Juventus will be more happy to play Real than Bayern, definitely.
It is definitely a terrible curse, to lose 4 Champions League finals in a row, especially where only one (2015) was a year where there was a truly better side in Europe than Juve. This year I cannot decide between Bayern or Juve. Juventus is always in the mix, and they are often underestimated because they lost so many Champions League finals. That does not mean they are not consistently in the 4 best teams in the world at the moment. Sometimes they are no 4, sometimes no 2, sometimes no 1. But english teams are not regarded as among the greats. You don't get recognition just because you throw around 100m euros. In fact that makes them worse. They have so much money but Juventus still wipes the floor with them, without breaking a sweat. EPL teams have a lot to learn from Juve, but I think the hate, jealousy and envy of such a great team will reduce Man Utd, Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool fans to repeating Juve's lost finals like parrots.
I'm sure all Juve fans would love Juve to beat Real in the final, but we know that it is a one off game and anything can happen. Luck is highly involved, referee is highly involved. If a 2 leg final or best of 5 set of games Juve would win, but finals are only one game. Juve cannot just pay 100m for a player like Man City or Real (apart from Higuain for which they used Pogba money). They build football teams still with italian identity of decades past of the sport. The english teams are largely owned by oil money. WTF is the "Etihad Stadium" or "Emirates Stadium"? They think throwing more money at the problem will make them great again, it is not so simple especially when your club loses its identity.
If I were a fan of one of the big EPL clubs (Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City), I would be really, really, really pissed off!
Juventus buys players for next to nothing then sells them at huge prices to EPL clubs and still all english clubs have to watch Juventus school other teams in the Champions' League from their TV!
The only one purchase I would say is not a good move from Juventus is actually Higuain. Yes, he scored 2 against Monaco and has done well in the league, but 90m euros? That's not the clever way Juve usually does business. Higuain is still a bit overweight and he doesn't score enough in the Champions' League. If we had a ~20m striker like a good Llorente against Monaco I think that would have been enough. Tevez would have done better than Higuain in this years Champions' League, and he's old. I don't know why Juve paid 90m for a player who is old and fat. If he was a young talent like Dybala with many years to come, OK, but why pay 90m for a 29 year old, it makes no sense. I would prefer Morata, poor Morata who sits on the bench for Real. Morata is a born finisher, young, quick, lethal in front of goal. His minutes to goal ratio is excellent. 40m for young Morata > 90m for old fat Higuain. I still think Higuain is a top player, but he is just too old and too unfit. You can solve the unfit part, but the old part you cannot solve. So it was stupid so buy him for 90m. Juve should have kept most of the Pogba money and bought a better value striker.
That's my only criticism of Juve in the transfer market. Other than Higuain, Juve have made all clubs like Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal etc. look like fools. This is why english fans are angry at truly great teams like Juve, because they school them with less than half the budget. The EPL has huge TV rights that Serie A just cannot match. The Juventus stadium is one of the only stadiums to be full in league matches. It was built smaller for approximately 40k capacity for a reason, a full stadium is better atmosphere than none. As for players like Matri, he didn't cost that much and Juve sold him and others like him anyway. Matri did quite well when Juve didn't have the top players yet coming back from Serie B.
Here you can see EPL already bidding huge amounts for Monaco Mbappe. Juve will stay out of that kind of nonsense. He has emerged as an exciting prospect, but a lot of people said similar of Martial. No one knows how it will go. Figures of 110m bid by Man City and 90m bid by Man Utd thrown about for a player who has impressed in just one single season, they are just silly. EPL clubs keep doing that while Juventus fans laugh and watch their team continue to outperform all english clubs. Conte is a good coach but if he faces this Juve next year in the Champions' League, he will need a lot of luck to avoid an asswhooping.
The major curse of Juventus is that they lose all Champions' League finals going back to 96 when they last won it. In each year, except maybe 2015 when Barca was the strongest side in Europe, Juventus was overall the best team in Europe and the team feared the most by opponents. The thing about European finals is that it is a one off game, there is no two legs, no league, nothing: just one game. 97 v Dortmund, Juve was too complacent in facing a relatively unknown underdog and was shocked by Dortmund's quick attack and determination. I would say Juventus was thinking they already had won the cup the way they played. 98 v Real Madrid, a pretty even game but Juve's big players didn't turn up, such as Zidane (who later moved to Real), the best player in the world at the time, he was anonymous. The biggest threats Juve had were very quiet, perhaps due to nerves and pressure of being the most feared team in Europe, and so it was a draw until an offside goal decided the game - a bit of luck for either side and it could have gone either way. A team that makes 3 finals in a row in the Champions' League is over that period the best in Europe. In 2003 against Milan it was a typical Italian final, boring, defensive, not much in it, Juve's big players again didn't turn up, and penalties is largely luck. 3 finals lost in a row in years where Juve was the best team in Europe. Today I think Bayern is perhaps the best team in Europe, just a bit ahead of Juve, but Bayern had a lot of bad luck and played a couple bad games against Real, so they got knocked out, but this does not mean Bayern is inferior. Juventus will be more happy to play Real than Bayern, definitely.
It is definitely a terrible curse, to lose 4 Champions League finals in a row, especially where only one (2015) was a year where there was a truly better side in Europe than Juve. This year I cannot decide between Bayern or Juve. Juventus is always in the mix, and they are often underestimated because they lost so many Champions League finals. That does not mean they are not consistently in the 4 best teams in the world at the moment. Sometimes they are no 4, sometimes no 2, sometimes no 1. But english teams are not regarded as among the greats. You don't get recognition just because you throw around 100m euros. In fact that makes them worse. They have so much money but Juventus still wipes the floor with them, without breaking a sweat. EPL teams have a lot to learn from Juve, but I think the hate, jealousy and envy of such a great team will reduce Man Utd, Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool fans to repeating Juve's lost finals like parrots.
I'm sure all Juve fans would love Juve to beat Real in the final, but we know that it is a one off game and anything can happen. Luck is highly involved, referee is highly involved. If a 2 leg final or best of 5 set of games Juve would win, but finals are only one game. Juve cannot just pay 100m for a player like Man City or Real (apart from Higuain for which they used Pogba money). They build football teams still with italian identity of decades past of the sport. The english teams are largely owned by oil money. WTF is the "Etihad Stadium" or "Emirates Stadium"? They think throwing more money at the problem will make them great again, it is not so simple especially when your club loses its identity.
floor7 · 2017-05-06 18:23:00 · #3229
https://www.fcbarcelona.cat/club/noticie...referendum
Barca officially supporting the referendum push to determine the future of catalonia.
Barca officially supporting the referendum push to determine the future of catalonia.
Going strong · 2017-05-06 18:37:00 · #3230
(05-06-2017 06:23 PM)floor7 Wrote: https://www.fcbarcelona.cat/club/noticie...referendum
Barca officially supporting the referendum push to determine the future of catalonia.
But, but... I thought football was not about politics...
Qatari jihadist owners trying to break up Spain, to avenge the Reconquista...
To Skank_Hunt: you are wondering why the excellent, young Morata sits on Real's bench like a discarded bum, while old, clumsy, never-scoring Benzema is playing... Well, ask yourself who the coach of Real is, and inchallah you'll understand.
And note that Benzema has a sad, proven habit of blackmailing (plus sexual-entrapment and false imprisonment) his fellow football dudes (see the Valbuena scandal)... maybe he's blackmailing people at the Real?
Rocha · 2017-05-06 18:46:00 · #3231
(05-05-2017 04:19 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote: britchard, it sounds like you are a fan of an EPL club?
If I were a fan of one of the big EPL clubs (Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City), I would be really, really, really pissed off!
Juventus buys players for next to nothing then sells them at huge prices to EPL clubs and still all english clubs have to watch Juventus school other teams in the Champions' League from their TV!
The only one purchase I would say is not a good move from Juventus is actually Higuain. Yes, he scored 2 against Monaco and has done well in the league, but 90m euros? That's not the clever way Juve usually does business. Higuain is still a bit overweight and he doesn't score enough in the Champions' League. If we had a ~20m striker like a good Llorente against Monaco I think that would have been enough. Tevez would have done better than Higuain in this years Champions' League, and he's old. I don't know why Juve paid 90m for a player who is old and fat. If he was a young talent like Dybala with many years to come, OK, but why pay 90m for a 29 year old, it makes no sense. I would prefer Morata, poor Morata who sits on the bench for Real. Morata is a born finisher, young, quick, lethal in front of goal. His minutes to goal ratio is excellent. 40m for young Morata > 90m for old fat Higuain. I still think Higuain is a top player, but he is just too old and too unfit. You can solve the unfit part, but the old part you cannot solve. So it was stupid so buy him for 90m. Juve should have kept most of the Pogba money and bought a better value striker.
That's my only criticism of Juve in the transfer market. Other than Higuain, Juve have made all clubs like Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal etc. look like fools. This is why english fans are angry at truly great teams like Juve, because they school them with less than half the budget. The EPL has huge TV rights that Serie A just cannot match. The Juventus stadium is one of the only stadiums to be full in league matches. It was built smaller for approximately 40k capacity for a reason, a full stadium is better atmosphere than none. As for players like Matri, he didn't cost that much and Juve sold him and others like him anyway. Matri did quite well when Juve didn't have the top players yet coming back from Serie B.
Here you can see EPL already bidding huge amounts for Monaco Mbappe. Juve will stay out of that kind of nonsense. He has emerged as an exciting prospect, but a lot of people said similar of Martial. No one knows how it will go. Figures of 110m bid by Man City and 90m bid by Man Utd thrown about for a player who has impressed in just one single season, they are just silly. EPL clubs keep doing that while Juventus fans laugh and watch their team continue to outperform all english clubs. Conte is a good coach but if he faces this Juve next year in the Champions' League, he will need a lot of luck to avoid an asswhooping.
The major curse of Juventus is that they lose all Champions' League finals going back to 96 when they last won it. In each year, except maybe 2015 when Barca was the strongest side in Europe, Juventus was overall the best team in Europe and the team feared the most by opponents. The thing about European finals is that it is a one off game, there is no two legs, no league, nothing: just one game. 97 v Dortmund, Juve was too complacent in facing a relatively unknown underdog and was shocked by Dortmund's quick attack and determination. I would say Juventus was thinking they already had won the cup the way they played. 98 v Real Madrid, a pretty even game but Juve's big players didn't turn up, such as Zidane (who later moved to Real), the best player in the world at the time, he was anonymous. The biggest threats Juve had were very quiet, perhaps due to nerves and pressure of being the most feared team in Europe, and so it was a draw until an offside goal decided the game - a bit of luck for either side and it could have gone either way. A team that makes 3 finals in a row in the Champions' League is over that period the best in Europe. In 2003 against Milan it was a typical Italian final, boring, defensive, not much in it, Juve's big players again didn't turn up, and penalties is largely luck. 3 finals lost in a row in years where Juve was the best team in Europe. Today I think Bayern is perhaps the best team in Europe, just a bit ahead of Juve, but Bayern had a lot of bad luck and played a couple bad games against Real, so they got knocked out, but this does not mean Bayern is inferior. Juventus will be more happy to play Real than Bayern, definitely.
It is definitely a terrible curse, to lose 4 Champions League finals in a row, especially where only one (2015) was a year where there was a truly better side in Europe than Juve. This year I cannot decide between Bayern or Juve. Juventus is always in the mix, and they are often underestimated because they lost so many Champions League finals. That does not mean they are not consistently in the 4 best teams in the world at the moment. Sometimes they are no 4, sometimes no 2, sometimes no 1. But english teams are not regarded as among the greats. You don't get recognition just because you throw around 100m euros. In fact that makes them worse. They have so much money but Juventus still wipes the floor with them, without breaking a sweat. EPL teams have a lot to learn from Juve, but I think the hate, jealousy and envy of such a great team will reduce Man Utd, Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool fans to repeating Juve's lost finals like parrots.
I'm sure all Juve fans would love Juve to beat Real in the final, but we know that it is a one off game and anything can happen. Luck is highly involved, referee is highly involved. If a 2 leg final or best of 5 set of games Juve would win, but finals are only one game. Juve cannot just pay 100m for a player like Man City or Real (apart from Higuain for which they used Pogba money). They build football teams still with italian identity of decades past of the sport. The english teams are largely owned by oil money. WTF is the "Etihad Stadium" or "Emirates Stadium"? They think throwing more money at the problem will make them great again, it is not so simple especially when your club loses its identity.
Who cares about lost finals?? They are perennial losers, end of the story. Juventus is the Raymond Poulidor of world football! Even Notthingam Forest has as many Champions as Juventus. Cannot compare them to the greatness of Liverpool.
List of Juventus international trophies:
European Champions' Cup/UEFA Champions League: 2
1984–85, 1995–96
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 1
1983–84
UEFA Cup: 3
1976–77, 1989–90, 1992–93
UEFA Super Cup: 2
1984, 1996
Intercontinental Cup: 2
1985, 1996
Now compare it with FC Porto from the poor and small city of Porto, from small and poor Portugal.
List of FC Porto international trophies:
European Cup / UEFA Champions League: 2
1986–87, 2003–04
UEFA Cup / UEFA Europa League: 2
2002–03, 2010–11
UEFA Super Cup: 1
1987
Intercontinental Cup: 2
1987, 2004
floor7 · 2017-05-06 20:42:00 · #3232
(05-06-2017 06:37 PM)Going strong Wrote:(05-06-2017 06:23 PM)floor7 Wrote: https://www.fcbarcelona.cat/club/noticie...referendum
Barca officially supporting the referendum push to determine the future of catalonia.
But, but... I thought football was not about politics...
Qatari jihadist owners trying to break up Spain, to avenge the Reconquista...
To Skank_Hunt: you are wondering why the excellent, young Morata sits on Real's bench like a discarded bum, while old, clumsy, never-scoring Benzema is playing... Well, ask yourself who the coach of Real is, and inchallah you'll understand.
And note that Benzema has a sad, proven habit of blackmailing (plus sexual-entrapment and false imprisonment) his fellow football dudes (see the Valbuena scandal)... maybe he's blackmailing people at the Real?
Benzema, even with his shattered body, is a much better foil for Ronaldo and Bale than Morata. Unless RM totally change their system, Morata will not be a first XI player there in the long run. He's too slow and is not effective enough out wide. A post ronaldo RM shifting towards needing a pure 9 is what Morata would need. I don't think he can wait for that.
Benzema is extremely fluid in his movement for a 9 and is as comfortable moving wide left and wide right when Ronaldo and/or Bale cut in and run behind the last man.
Morata is too static and Zidane is a very decent manager - not revolutionary in his thinking - but very balanced in his ideas and commands massive respect in the dressing room which is what is required at a club like RM. I can't think of another boss that could control the dressing room as well as him.
lonewolf1992 · 2017-05-06 20:49:00 · #3233
Does anybody here like south american football like I do?, rooshvfers in colombia or argentina, do you follow a team?
floor7 · 2017-05-06 21:40:00 · #3234
(05-06-2017 08:49 PM)lonewolf1992 Wrote: Does anybody here like south american football like I do?, rooshvfers in colombia or argentina, do you follow a team?
I don't follow a particular team but CONMEBOL WCQ is my favorite 'league style' competition. No group bullshit - straight table, home and away, insane atmosphere, jugadors bleeding for the shirt.
lonewolf1992 · 2017-05-06 22:04:00 · #3235
(05-06-2017 09:40 PM)floor7 Wrote:(05-06-2017 08:49 PM)lonewolf1992 Wrote: Does anybody here like south american football like I do?, rooshvfers in colombia or argentina, do you follow a team?
I don't follow a particular team but CONMEBOL WCQ is my favorite 'league style' competition. No group bullshit - straight table, home and away, insane atmosphere, jugadors bleeding for the shirt.
Yeah, those eliminatorias are among the hardest and most ruthless in the world, looking forward to those last matches here, as you said insane atmosphere, you should check the copa libertadores, is pretty much the same thing or more intense.
Rossi · 2017-05-07 03:26:00 · #3236
(05-06-2017 06:46 PM)Rocha Wrote: Who cares about lost finals?? They are perennial losers, end of the story. Juventus is the Raymond Poulidor of world football! Even Notthingam Forest has as many Champions as Juventus. Cannot compare them to the greatness of Liverpool.
List of Juventus international trophies:
European Champions' Cup/UEFA Champions League: 2
1984–85, 1995–96
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 1
1983–84
UEFA Cup: 3
1976–77, 1989–90, 1992–93
UEFA Super Cup: 2
1984, 1996
Intercontinental Cup: 2
1985, 1996
Now compare it with FC Porto from the poor and small city of Porto, from small and poor Portugal.
List of FC Porto international trophies:
European Cup / UEFA Champions League: 2
1986–87, 2003–04
UEFA Cup / UEFA Europa League: 2
2002–03, 2010–11
UEFA Super Cup: 1
1987
Intercontinental Cup: 2
1987, 2004
Porto 0-2 Juventus
Juventus 1-0 Porto
Focus on beating Maritimo first. Looks like, you also lost the title last night.
According to your amazing logic,
Milan is better than Barcelona and Bayern because Milan have won Champions League 7 times, Bayern and Barcelona have won 5 times.
Ajax (4 time winners) is better than Man Utd (3), Dortmund (1), Juventus (2), Inter (3).
Nottingham Forest (2) is better than Arsenal, Man City, Tottenham and Chelsea (1).
Steaua Bucharest is better than Arsenal.
Celtic is better than Napoli.
PSV is better than Arsenal.
RedStar Belgrade is better than Sporting Lisbon.
Hamburg is better than PSG.
Keep up the great logic, bro. First, Juventus signed Barzagli for free, and then this. I'll follow your football expertise from now on.
Going strong · 2017-05-07 06:25:00 · #3237
(05-06-2017 08:42 PM)floor7 Wrote:(05-06-2017 06:37 PM)Going strong Wrote:(05-06-2017 06:23 PM)floor7 Wrote: https://www.fcbarcelona.cat/club/noticie...referendum
Barca officially supporting the referendum push to determine the future of catalonia.
But, but... I thought football was not about politics...
Qatari jihadist owners trying to break up Spain, to avenge the Reconquista...
To Skank_Hunt: you are wondering why the excellent, young Morata sits on Real's bench like a discarded bum, while old, clumsy, never-scoring Benzema is playing... Well, ask yourself who the coach of Real is, and inchallah you'll understand.
And note that Benzema has a sad, proven habit of blackmailing (plus sexual-entrapment and false imprisonment) his fellow football dudes (see the Valbuena scandal)... maybe he's blackmailing people at the Real?
Benzema, even with his shattered body, is a much better foil for Ronaldo and Bale than Morata. Unless RM totally change their system, Morata will not be a first XI player there in the long run. He's too slow and is not effective enough out wide. A post ronaldo RM shifting towards needing a pure 9 is what Morata would need. I don't think he can wait for that.
Benzema is extremely fluid in his movement for a 9 and is as comfortable moving wide left and wide right when Ronaldo and/or Bale cut in and run behind the last man.
Morata is too static and Zidane is a very decent manager - not revolutionary in his thinking - but very balanced in his ideas and commands massive respect in the dressing room which is what is required at a club like RM. I can't think of another boss that could control the dressing room as well as him.
Yeah, whatever (you didn't explain why Benzema never scores, not a small detail for a striker; he moves like a dancer, but forgets to score. Morata on the other hand, doesn't fool around, and scores), but anyway:
is it normal and fair to still prefer Benzema, after he's been convinced of complicity in sexual entrapment, swindling, blackmail, against the talented but vulnerable, small creative midfielder, Valbuena? Benzema should sit in jail, not in a Ferrari.
Rocha · 2017-05-07 12:35:00 · #3238
(05-07-2017 03:26 AM)Rossi Wrote:(05-06-2017 06:46 PM)Rocha Wrote: Who cares about lost finals?? They are perennial losers, end of the story. Juventus is the Raymond Poulidor of world football! Even Notthingam Forest has as many Champions as Juventus. Cannot compare them to the greatness of Liverpool.
List of Juventus international trophies:
European Champions' Cup/UEFA Champions League: 2
1984–85, 1995–96
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 1
1983–84
UEFA Cup: 3
1976–77, 1989–90, 1992–93
UEFA Super Cup: 2
1984, 1996
Intercontinental Cup: 2
1985, 1996
Now compare it with FC Porto from the poor and small city of Porto, from small and poor Portugal.
List of FC Porto international trophies:
European Cup / UEFA Champions League: 2
1986–87, 2003–04
UEFA Cup / UEFA Europa League: 2
2002–03, 2010–11
UEFA Super Cup: 1
1987
Intercontinental Cup: 2
1987, 2004
Porto 0-2 Juventus
Juventus 1-0 Porto
Focus on beating Maritimo first. Looks like, you also lost the title last night.
According to your amazing logic,
Milan is better than Barcelona and Bayern because Milan have won Champions League 7 times, Bayern and Barcelona have won 5 times.
Ajax (4 time winners) is better than Man Utd (3), Dortmund (1), Juventus (2), Inter (3).
Nottingham Forest (2) is better than Arsenal, Man City, Tottenham and Chelsea (1).
Steaua Bucharest is better than Arsenal.
Celtic is better than Napoli.
PSV is better than Arsenal.
RedStar Belgrade is better than Sporting Lisbon.
Hamburg is better than PSG.
Keep up the great logic, bro. First, Juventus signed Barzagli for free, and then this. I'll follow your football expertise from now on.
Yes, that is the correct logic. Trophies = Prestige = Greatness.
As for Barzagli, you are still holding to the "signed for free", when what I did was dismantling your provocation about Juve having bought cheap players vs English teams expensive ones, Barzagli joined Juventus for a small fee because his contract was expiring, it is a borderline free transfer like Ibrahimovic to Manchester United.
Is it so difficult to understand??
And as cautionary don't write stuff on a forum that you would not say to someones face.
realologist · 2017-05-07 12:42:00 · #3239
Damn. Take this to PMs already. Nobody even talks about the games anymore. It's always English vs. Italians. Italians vs. English. Club and international.
Skank_Hunt · 2017-05-07 18:22:00 · #3240
@Going_Strong: yes, I do agree that Morata is better than Benzema, especially as a future prospect. I don't know enough about the various theories as to why he is not selected in favor of Benzema, but I can certainly say that Morata is better than the vast majority of strikers who start for some of the best teams in Europe. It seems that RM activated the 30m buyback clause of Morata to keep him away from Juventus and other teams in Europe, rather than a full intent to use him and develop him to his full potential. It is so sad that a player of such level is left on the bench, but it is a result of certain factors that can occasionally do this to a top player. For those who have Morata in low regard, you must not have seen him play for Juventus or where he is occasionally allowed to play for RM. He is not a complete striker but nor is Ronaldo or Bale. Ronaldo is much slower now and takes on fewer players and is more static as an out and out striker, but that is his style as he gets older and he still scores many goals. Morata is young, fast and has the striker's instinct: positioning and finishing which means he is always dangerous. Some members might have taken issue with my post in favor of Juventus, but here I am speaking highly of a Real Madrid player. I can only call things as I see them. Morata is simply underrated.
@Rocha, I don't see how you can argue against Juventus being one of the great clubs in world football. I did mention in my previous post that Juve's weakness was their losing 4 Champions' League finals in a row. That is terrible and it is indeed their curse: Champions' League final. All Juventus fans know this weakness in their history and they all admit this. There is no denying it. However while trophies are of course one way of measuring a club's success and prestige, it is not the only way. Consistent presence and performance in domestic league (adjusted to domestic league difficulty) and consistency in Europe is a great factor as well. During the period 1995-2003, Juventus won the Champions' League only once, but appeared in the final 4 times, and in the other years were generally present in advanced stages of the competition. Because of the difficulty of retaining the trophy and random nature of knockout stage games, especially the one-off final, you can't expect any team to reach the final every year, let alone win it, which no team has consecutively, ever, in its present Champions' League format.
If you are a fan of Porto that team has done very well considering its size and budget, over history. If I were a Porto fan I would be proud especially comparing the budget of Porto to ridiculous budgets of EPL teams. I certainly would prefer Porto to get further in the UCL than the big money RM, Barcelona, Bayern or EPL teams. Juventus has somehow persisted in this new age of big money because it has the greatest support across the whole of Italy and one of the greatest fan bases worldwide. This gives them the community and money to at least stand a chance against the major money teams. Porto has less of that although I do wish the teams and leagues would be more equal in that respect. I would like to see more often Porto in the latter stages of the UCL, beating teams like RM, Barca and Bayern. There is no reason why Porto cannot beat teams like Man City, which have big money but are not such good teams. If Porto wishes to be consistent in this new age of big money, then maybe they should look at the model of Juventus since they came back from Serie B, and adapt it to their situation as much as possible. It is very difficult out there to take out the "big 3" (RM, Barca, Bayern) and I am pleased every time some underdog does it. Juventus is a great historic team with a great, passionate fanbase worldwide, but in present day terms especially where money is concerned they do not compete yet with Barca, so it was excellent to see Barcelona humiliated by Juve and to watch Messi and Neymar cry.
At the moment, the reality with Porto is that they are consistent in getting to the UCL group stages and early knockout stages (good), but they are not feared as opponents by the teams they face (not good). Juventus played poorly this year against Porto compared to their play against Barcelona, but they still managed to beat Porto easily like it was a training match. Juventus has never been an especially spectacular team, they like to be efficient. For them, the italian "catenaccio" mindset is still within their core: if you're winning 1-0, what's the point of scoring more? Why waste energy? Juventus is not 100% like that anymore, but you don't see the big 5-0, 6-1, 7-2 scorelines domestically that Barcelona and Bayern like to do. Porto is not likely to beat good teams 5-0 in UCL but it is possible to become as difficult to beat as possible, and this starts from the back, the goalkeeper and defence. Defenders and goalkeepers are underpriced greatly compared to attackers because they are not as "glamorous" in their jobs. Look at how Chiellini or Bonucci plays for Juventus, lunging in for last ditch tackles, making strategic fouls, blocking shots on goal with every allowable part of their body. Is it pretty? No. Is it effective? Hell yes. Juventus scored a fantastic first goal against Monaco last week, from defence all the way to attack, beautiful flicks, backheels, counter attacking football. Very nice to watch. But this is not the core of Juventus. The core of Juventus is a team that every other team in UCL says "fuuuuck" when they are drawn against them. Because Juventus is a team that no one wants to play. They are not spectacular, extravagant, like Bale or Messi showing off, but they are some tough italian opposition. Barcelona can score 6 goals against PSG or some team in La Liga, they score 0 against Juventus over two games. Monaco scored how many against Man City, was it 5? How many against Dortmund? 5? 6? Juventus so far have conceded 0, and that was the away leg.
Instead of trying to bring down other teams who have built well from the back, it is better to think about how to do the same with your favorite team as well. If Porto can build a solid defence with good players and defensive tactics, quietly, and add a couple defensive midfielders in to the mix, I would enjoy seeing that. Unfortunately, Italian coaches seem to be the best for this application, so you may have to get an Italian coach.
The combination of traditions, history, leagues, cups, and progression to advanced stages of European Cup/UCL all combined make a team a great club. But if you are talking about the present day, obviously recent performance is taken into account more. Porto won the UCL more recently than Juventus, but no team in UCL fears Porto like they fear Juventus. Juventus played a training match against them in the last 16. Porto is not close to the best team in Europe. Juventus is probably the best team in Europe at the moment. RM can beat Juventus 2-0 in the final and still it could be that Juventus is the better team. This is why domestic leagues are a lot more accurate in the overall strength of a team than a one game final. If Juventus beats RM 5-0 in the final this year, this does not mean Juventus is so much better than RM, they were probably just lucky in that one game and had great momentum, good referee decisions, etc. Juventus lost to Dortmund 3-1 in 1997. 9 times out of 10 Juve would have won that game. 1998 7-8 times out of 10 Juve would have beaten Real Madrid. Same for 2003 against Milan. Finals are crazy and that's what makes them so entertaining. It is much better for Porto to concentrate on themselves and becoming hard to beat, then to become a team which every other team in Europe fears again. When fans say "fuuuuuuuck" when Porto is their draw for 1/8 or 1/4 finals, then you know you have a good team
@Rossi, you make a good point about some of the great teams in history. Sometimes, it actually makes me sad that many of these former great teams are now not even in the UCL regularly, or they are in the UCL sometimes but as minnows. Ajax was one of Europe's greats, whether they won the UCL that season or not, everyone knew they were the best. I remember those days. Until Juventus played them in 1996. Nottingham Forest is no longer even in the Premier League. Are they in the Championship or below that? I don't even monitor them anymore. The SPL is so weak that Celtic won it so early this year and I think were undefeated all season. But then they go in the UCL and get beaten by 5, 6 or 7 by Europe's elite, so the weakness of the SPL is both a gift and a curse. Serie A for Juventus is just competitive enough, but not so competitive to be exhausting; this favors Juventus. On the other hand, playing at Celtic's home (Hampden Park?) is a very difficult atmosphere to play in. Barcelona at the Nou Camp can beat Celtic 7 - 0 but then struggle to score or even lose when they go to Glasgow. The fans are very passionate and I wouldn't write Celtic off, but they need to make that step up to make their squad stronger. I would compare Juventus playing in maybe Serie C, winning that undefeated then trying to play in UCL from that. Impossible transition. Belgrade and Steaua are teams which I remember, but sadly it's economic issues of the domestic leagues that trap teams in cycles of low achievement nowadays as money becomes more important. I was thinking that UEFA should give some subsidies to teams and leagues like this where the history, fan base and traditions of the club got it into the UCL before the new age of money came about. It's so unfair comparing Steaua to Man City and their billions in oil money. On one end of the spectrum we are seeing ridiculous wages given to players (like MSN) from which some should be taken to help other historically significant leagues of UEFA countries, and other subsidies for smaller UEFA countries too. If you're not a fan of Barca, Bayern or Real the UCL can become quite repetitive. The resurgence of Juventus after quite some adversity going into and coming back from Serie B is a welcome and inspiring story, but I think we need more of that. So just because I am obviously supporting Juventus to beat RM this year (as I hope most of the footballing world would be) this doesn't mean I wouldn't be supporting Porto vs RM in a future final (which of course I would do!)
As a neutral I would really enjoy and be happy to see Ajax, Redstar Belgrade, Steaua, Celtic, Hamburg, and indeed Porto back to being very strong teams which can beat the likes of Barcelona, Bayern and Madrid. I don't see why there is a need to hate Juventus this year because they will contest the final. Their football is very interesting to watch. If Juventus knocked Porto out this year, then Porto must address their weaknesses and come back stronger each year until they can knock out Juventus or Barcelona.
@Rocha, I don't see how you can argue against Juventus being one of the great clubs in world football. I did mention in my previous post that Juve's weakness was their losing 4 Champions' League finals in a row. That is terrible and it is indeed their curse: Champions' League final. All Juventus fans know this weakness in their history and they all admit this. There is no denying it. However while trophies are of course one way of measuring a club's success and prestige, it is not the only way. Consistent presence and performance in domestic league (adjusted to domestic league difficulty) and consistency in Europe is a great factor as well. During the period 1995-2003, Juventus won the Champions' League only once, but appeared in the final 4 times, and in the other years were generally present in advanced stages of the competition. Because of the difficulty of retaining the trophy and random nature of knockout stage games, especially the one-off final, you can't expect any team to reach the final every year, let alone win it, which no team has consecutively, ever, in its present Champions' League format.
If you are a fan of Porto that team has done very well considering its size and budget, over history. If I were a Porto fan I would be proud especially comparing the budget of Porto to ridiculous budgets of EPL teams. I certainly would prefer Porto to get further in the UCL than the big money RM, Barcelona, Bayern or EPL teams. Juventus has somehow persisted in this new age of big money because it has the greatest support across the whole of Italy and one of the greatest fan bases worldwide. This gives them the community and money to at least stand a chance against the major money teams. Porto has less of that although I do wish the teams and leagues would be more equal in that respect. I would like to see more often Porto in the latter stages of the UCL, beating teams like RM, Barca and Bayern. There is no reason why Porto cannot beat teams like Man City, which have big money but are not such good teams. If Porto wishes to be consistent in this new age of big money, then maybe they should look at the model of Juventus since they came back from Serie B, and adapt it to their situation as much as possible. It is very difficult out there to take out the "big 3" (RM, Barca, Bayern) and I am pleased every time some underdog does it. Juventus is a great historic team with a great, passionate fanbase worldwide, but in present day terms especially where money is concerned they do not compete yet with Barca, so it was excellent to see Barcelona humiliated by Juve and to watch Messi and Neymar cry.
At the moment, the reality with Porto is that they are consistent in getting to the UCL group stages and early knockout stages (good), but they are not feared as opponents by the teams they face (not good). Juventus played poorly this year against Porto compared to their play against Barcelona, but they still managed to beat Porto easily like it was a training match. Juventus has never been an especially spectacular team, they like to be efficient. For them, the italian "catenaccio" mindset is still within their core: if you're winning 1-0, what's the point of scoring more? Why waste energy? Juventus is not 100% like that anymore, but you don't see the big 5-0, 6-1, 7-2 scorelines domestically that Barcelona and Bayern like to do. Porto is not likely to beat good teams 5-0 in UCL but it is possible to become as difficult to beat as possible, and this starts from the back, the goalkeeper and defence. Defenders and goalkeepers are underpriced greatly compared to attackers because they are not as "glamorous" in their jobs. Look at how Chiellini or Bonucci plays for Juventus, lunging in for last ditch tackles, making strategic fouls, blocking shots on goal with every allowable part of their body. Is it pretty? No. Is it effective? Hell yes. Juventus scored a fantastic first goal against Monaco last week, from defence all the way to attack, beautiful flicks, backheels, counter attacking football. Very nice to watch. But this is not the core of Juventus. The core of Juventus is a team that every other team in UCL says "fuuuuck" when they are drawn against them. Because Juventus is a team that no one wants to play. They are not spectacular, extravagant, like Bale or Messi showing off, but they are some tough italian opposition. Barcelona can score 6 goals against PSG or some team in La Liga, they score 0 against Juventus over two games. Monaco scored how many against Man City, was it 5? How many against Dortmund? 5? 6? Juventus so far have conceded 0, and that was the away leg.
Instead of trying to bring down other teams who have built well from the back, it is better to think about how to do the same with your favorite team as well. If Porto can build a solid defence with good players and defensive tactics, quietly, and add a couple defensive midfielders in to the mix, I would enjoy seeing that. Unfortunately, Italian coaches seem to be the best for this application, so you may have to get an Italian coach.
The combination of traditions, history, leagues, cups, and progression to advanced stages of European Cup/UCL all combined make a team a great club. But if you are talking about the present day, obviously recent performance is taken into account more. Porto won the UCL more recently than Juventus, but no team in UCL fears Porto like they fear Juventus. Juventus played a training match against them in the last 16. Porto is not close to the best team in Europe. Juventus is probably the best team in Europe at the moment. RM can beat Juventus 2-0 in the final and still it could be that Juventus is the better team. This is why domestic leagues are a lot more accurate in the overall strength of a team than a one game final. If Juventus beats RM 5-0 in the final this year, this does not mean Juventus is so much better than RM, they were probably just lucky in that one game and had great momentum, good referee decisions, etc. Juventus lost to Dortmund 3-1 in 1997. 9 times out of 10 Juve would have won that game. 1998 7-8 times out of 10 Juve would have beaten Real Madrid. Same for 2003 against Milan. Finals are crazy and that's what makes them so entertaining. It is much better for Porto to concentrate on themselves and becoming hard to beat, then to become a team which every other team in Europe fears again. When fans say "fuuuuuuuck" when Porto is their draw for 1/8 or 1/4 finals, then you know you have a good team
@Rossi, you make a good point about some of the great teams in history. Sometimes, it actually makes me sad that many of these former great teams are now not even in the UCL regularly, or they are in the UCL sometimes but as minnows. Ajax was one of Europe's greats, whether they won the UCL that season or not, everyone knew they were the best. I remember those days. Until Juventus played them in 1996. Nottingham Forest is no longer even in the Premier League. Are they in the Championship or below that? I don't even monitor them anymore. The SPL is so weak that Celtic won it so early this year and I think were undefeated all season. But then they go in the UCL and get beaten by 5, 6 or 7 by Europe's elite, so the weakness of the SPL is both a gift and a curse. Serie A for Juventus is just competitive enough, but not so competitive to be exhausting; this favors Juventus. On the other hand, playing at Celtic's home (Hampden Park?) is a very difficult atmosphere to play in. Barcelona at the Nou Camp can beat Celtic 7 - 0 but then struggle to score or even lose when they go to Glasgow. The fans are very passionate and I wouldn't write Celtic off, but they need to make that step up to make their squad stronger. I would compare Juventus playing in maybe Serie C, winning that undefeated then trying to play in UCL from that. Impossible transition. Belgrade and Steaua are teams which I remember, but sadly it's economic issues of the domestic leagues that trap teams in cycles of low achievement nowadays as money becomes more important. I was thinking that UEFA should give some subsidies to teams and leagues like this where the history, fan base and traditions of the club got it into the UCL before the new age of money came about. It's so unfair comparing Steaua to Man City and their billions in oil money. On one end of the spectrum we are seeing ridiculous wages given to players (like MSN) from which some should be taken to help other historically significant leagues of UEFA countries, and other subsidies for smaller UEFA countries too. If you're not a fan of Barca, Bayern or Real the UCL can become quite repetitive. The resurgence of Juventus after quite some adversity going into and coming back from Serie B is a welcome and inspiring story, but I think we need more of that. So just because I am obviously supporting Juventus to beat RM this year (as I hope most of the footballing world would be) this doesn't mean I wouldn't be supporting Porto vs RM in a future final (which of course I would do!)
As a neutral I would really enjoy and be happy to see Ajax, Redstar Belgrade, Steaua, Celtic, Hamburg, and indeed Porto back to being very strong teams which can beat the likes of Barcelona, Bayern and Madrid. I don't see why there is a need to hate Juventus this year because they will contest the final. Their football is very interesting to watch. If Juventus knocked Porto out this year, then Porto must address their weaknesses and come back stronger each year until they can knock out Juventus or Barcelona.
Teedub · 2017-05-08 06:20:00 · #3241
mikado · 2017-05-09 10:49:00 · #3242
By the way I do agree that football is about "my team is better than yours". Messi might be the best player in the world but I celebrate every Real win and cheer at every Barça counterperformance lol.
5 more finals remaining this year to make the doble. Feeling comfy about only 2 of them (Malaga and Atletico)
5 more finals remaining this year to make the doble. Feeling comfy about only 2 of them (Malaga and Atletico)
Skank_Hunt · 2017-05-09 18:04:00 · #3243
Tonight's semi-final went pretty much as expected. Juventus pulled away comfortably and then took their foot off the gas. Actually conceded a goal as well, which I think might be for the best because better Monaco score when Juve is 4-0 up than Real in the final.
Another lethal counter attacking goal, fantastic work all the way from Buffon, very intelligent immediate throw to take out half the Monaco team at once. Very difficult strike from Alves for the second. Juventus slightly asleep for the Monaco goal.
One thing that should concern Juventus fans is how wasteful Higuain is of the chances he had. He scored two in the previous leg, but he was back to his old UCL misfiring ways in this second leg. It is concerning because Higuain simply must score the chances he will get in the final against Real. If he and the rest of the team (e.g. Cuadrado) is not efficient in front of goal, Real can punish them for their wastefulness...
Disgusting stamp by Glik on Higuain. That has no place in football. I hope UEFA can impose retrospective punishment on him when they see that on the replays. Glik was obviously very pissed off his team was going out, he had very little to lose, so he made the decision to stamp on Higuain with quite some force. Luckily it was just a minor flesh injury and not something worse (you could see the stud marks 10 minutes later which Higuain was showing to the referee - that will turn into a bruise).
Another lethal counter attacking goal, fantastic work all the way from Buffon, very intelligent immediate throw to take out half the Monaco team at once. Very difficult strike from Alves for the second. Juventus slightly asleep for the Monaco goal.
One thing that should concern Juventus fans is how wasteful Higuain is of the chances he had. He scored two in the previous leg, but he was back to his old UCL misfiring ways in this second leg. It is concerning because Higuain simply must score the chances he will get in the final against Real. If he and the rest of the team (e.g. Cuadrado) is not efficient in front of goal, Real can punish them for their wastefulness...
Disgusting stamp by Glik on Higuain. That has no place in football. I hope UEFA can impose retrospective punishment on him when they see that on the replays. Glik was obviously very pissed off his team was going out, he had very little to lose, so he made the decision to stamp on Higuain with quite some force. Luckily it was just a minor flesh injury and not something worse (you could see the stud marks 10 minutes later which Higuain was showing to the referee - that will turn into a bruise).
RedPillUK · 2017-05-09 18:21:00 · #3244
(05-09-2017 10:49 AM)mikado Wrote: By the way I do agree that football is about "my team is better than yours". Messi might be the best player in the world but I celebrate every Real win and cheer at every Barça counterperformance lol.
5 more finals remaining this year to make the doble. Feeling comfy about only 2 of them (Malaga and Atletico)
I disagree. for me its not about that, I only 'support' (meaning I care if a team wins or loses) my national teams and any amateur teams that I play for.
I don't care at all what happens in club football, but I watch it for the entertainment value, not as much as I used to, but I still enjoy the Champions League and the Premiership.
I guess you could say I'm a technician, purist or whatever, because I like watching football matches for the great players and the football. I like watching how the whole team works and what players in my position do in certain situations. I find these "my team is better than your team" arguments boring and childish
Even if you support your local team, you're just supporting a bunch of foreigners running a business. Why should I do that?
Rossi · 2017-05-09 19:17:00 · #3245
(05-07-2017 12:35 PM)Rocha Wrote: Yes, that is the correct logic. Trophies = Prestige = Greatness.
As for Barzagli, you are still holding to the "signed for free", when what I did was dismantling your provocation about Juve having bought cheap players vs English teams expensive ones, Barzagli joined Juventus for a small fee because his contract was expiring, it is a borderline free transfer like Ibrahimovic to Manchester United.
Is it so difficult to understand??
And as cautionary don't write stuff on a forum that you would not say to someones face.
That's not what you said.
I told you that we bought Barzagli for €500,000 and you said "No, you bought him for free."
Turns out, we didn't get him for free. We paid €500,000 for him and got him before anyone else. He won 5 league titles for us.
What do English teams do? They bought John Stones for €55 millions and get eliminated in Quarter Final by Monaco. By the way, when are you gonna tell us which team you support? Is it Porto that we beat in both games or someone else? Looks like, Porto can't even beat Maritimo and Feirense while we're in Champions League final
Champions League trophy is coming to Italy this year.
Neeext. Bring Real Madrid.
Rocha · 2017-05-09 20:12:00 · #3246
(05-09-2017 07:17 PM)Rossi Wrote:(05-07-2017 12:35 PM)Rocha Wrote: Yes, that is the correct logic. Trophies = Prestige = Greatness.
As for Barzagli, you are still holding to the "signed for free", when what I did was dismantling your provocation about Juve having bought cheap players vs English teams expensive ones, Barzagli joined Juventus for a small fee because his contract was expiring, it is a borderline free transfer like Ibrahimovic to Manchester United.
Is it so difficult to understand??
And as cautionary don't write stuff on a forum that you would not say to someones face.
That's not what you said.
I told you that we bought Barzagli for €500,000 and you said "No, you bought him for free."
Turns out, we didn't get him for free. We paid €500,000 for him and got him before anyone else. He won 5 league titles for us.
What do English teams do? They bought John Stones for €55 millions and get eliminated in Quarter Final by Monaco. By the way, when are you gonna tell us which team you support? Is it Porto that we beat in both games or someone else? Looks like, Porto can't even beat Maritimo and Feirense while we're in Champions League final
Champions League trophy is coming to Italy this year.
Neeext. Bring Real Madrid.
It is proudly and clear that my team is FC Porto. Unfortunately not the best of times for us, but at least we never had to play on serie B.
Juventus has undoubtedly a better squad than Porto, and a much better coach, Porto played 2/3 of the tie with less 1 player, but the boys where a brave team, they gave it all, nothing to be ashamed. In the qualifications AS Roma also played against us with less one man and got punished for it 3-0. That's football.
May the best win in the final.
Nater · 2017-05-09 21:19:00 · #3247
(05-09-2017 06:21 PM)RedPillUK Wrote:(05-09-2017 10:49 AM)mikado Wrote: By the way I do agree that football is about "my team is better than yours". Messi might be the best player in the world but I celebrate every Real win and cheer at every Barça counterperformance lol.
5 more finals remaining this year to make the doble. Feeling comfy about only 2 of them (Malaga and Atletico)
I disagree. for me its not about that, I only 'support' (meaning I care if a team wins or loses) my national teams and any amateur teams that I play for.
I don't care at all what happens in club football, but I watch it for the entertainment value, not as much as I used to, but I still enjoy the Champions League and the Premiership.
I guess you could say I'm a technician, purist or whatever, because I like watching football matches for the great players and the football. I like watching how the whole team works and what players in my position do in certain situations. I find these "my team is better than your team" arguments boring and childish
A step above the supporter there is the fanatic, what we commonly refer to as a fan. You guys are comparing apples and oranges that's why you are seeing things differently. You are a supporter as you stated whereas Mikado and Rossi are respectively fans of their teams according to what they wrote. It's not a fair comparison there is a slight but nonetheless important difference between being a supporter and a fan of a team.
When you are a fan your emotional involvement is high every time you interact with your team. A win or a loss could possibly change your emotional state. Also, your commitment to the team is lifelong. I am a fan of two teams, the national team and my hometown club. These will not change in my lifetime. My emotional investment is high when I watch them play, when I talk about my team it's always "my team is better than yours" especially to non-fans.
As a supporter my emotional involvement, my attachment to the team is low. The game will not change my emotional state and there is no commitment from my side. I support two different teams in a game game if there were conditions that would make me lean to the opposite team. An example of this is that I was planning to support Juve for the final, I like the team but Rossi's arrogance is really making reconsider that.
Innuendo · 2017-05-09 21:28:00 · #3248
Rossi, you've been trolling this thread a lot.
Football runs in cycles. Sure, English teams aren't doing that great right now but most of them are in a transition period. Competition in the Premier League is also much tougher than in Serie A.
Sure, you got Barzagli for 500k , but that is in fact just because his contract was ending in the summer. No way Wolfsburg would have allowed him to go that cheaply otherwise.
And if Italian teams are so great, why does Italy only get 3 CL places?
Football runs in cycles. Sure, English teams aren't doing that great right now but most of them are in a transition period. Competition in the Premier League is also much tougher than in Serie A.
Sure, you got Barzagli for 500k , but that is in fact just because his contract was ending in the summer. No way Wolfsburg would have allowed him to go that cheaply otherwise.
And if Italian teams are so great, why does Italy only get 3 CL places?
Rossi · 2017-05-10 08:09:00 · #3249
(05-09-2017 09:28 PM)Innuendo Wrote: Rossi, you've been trolling this thread a lot.
Football runs in cycles. Sure, English teams aren't doing that great right now but most of them are in a transition period. Competition in the Premier League is also much tougher than in Serie A.
Sure, you got Barzagli for 500k , but that is in fact just because his contract was ending in the summer. No way Wolfsburg would have allowed him to go that cheaply otherwise.
And if Italian teams are so great, why does Italy only get 3 CL places?
What kind of transition is this? Transition happens when club change ownership, like Milan or Palermo. They are in transition phase. We'll see what happens in summer. Otherwise, Man Utd are not in transition phase or Arsenal or Man City or Liverpool. They got tons of money but all they get is failure.
Do you want me to add up what Man City spent and what Juventus spent in past 5 years? We're in CL final 2 times. Man City spent probably 20 times more than us and they never got to final.
Man Utd bought Pogba from us for €110 millions and they can barely beat Rostov and Anderlecht in extra times.
Tottenham gets knocked out by Gent.
Man City spent €55 millions on John Stone and Otamendi €45 millions alone and they conceded 6 goals from Monaco.
Arsenal, who are richest 7th team in the world, lost 10-2 against Bayern, like a basketball game
And, you are telling me that this is transition time? Yes, Premier League is tougher than La Liga, Bundesliga or Serie A because all the English teams equally suck in England.
If you have Juventus, Bayern, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid, they will win Premier League by 15 points. That's why loser Italian coach like Ranieri was able to win Premier League easily with Leicester.
English people don't really know much about football. That's why you don't see English manager winning Premier League much.
Ranieri goes to Leicester, wins it.
Ancelotti goes to Chelsea, wins it.
Conte goes to Chelsea, wins it.
Why is it so easy for Italian coaches to win in Premier League but no English won it recently?
Premier League is one of the most over-rated league in the world. Marketing, stadiums, condition of the pitches are best in the world but not the football itself. Otherwise, if it was the best league, we would have seen something in European area from English teams.
Instead, we have failure after failure from English teams even though they blow up 100-200 millions on transfers.
rudebwoy · 2017-05-10 11:04:00 · #3250
Rossi _ I wouldn't run your mouth so hard.
Serie A has been joke for years now. Wasn't Juve in some scandal not so long ago?
It has been a one horse race for awhile now. Juve is the Bayern Munich of Italy.
Back in the 80s/90s it was probably the top league.
AC Milan back in the day were something special to watch, albeit the foreign players like Van Basten, Guillt, Rikjard made them great.
Say what you want about the English league, but it isn't a one horse race. It is exciting to watch and unpredictable.
Serie A has been joke for years now. Wasn't Juve in some scandal not so long ago?
It has been a one horse race for awhile now. Juve is the Bayern Munich of Italy.
Back in the 80s/90s it was probably the top league.
AC Milan back in the day were something special to watch, albeit the foreign players like Van Basten, Guillt, Rikjard made them great.
Say what you want about the English league, but it isn't a one horse race. It is exciting to watch and unpredictable.