Post: #26

Does anyone think conspiracy theories are "crazy"?

Depends on the specific theory.

"And then all the people who sat around the table can tell no one. Ever."

This is not how it works. Ever seen the movie, "Wag the Dog?" Ya know, the one about a President who starts a foreign war to distract the public from his sex scandal?

Gee, does that actually sound like something that actually happened, not just in the movies?

lozlzolzolzol

We live under the global regime of an open conspiracy.

They don't try to hide it from our eyes. What they do is inundate is with all sorts of nonsense, distractions, and crazy notions. Information, Mis-information and Dis-information overload. Bread and Circuses on steroids.

They saturate our consciousness via the mass media with truths, half-truths, partial-truths and downright lies to the point where you no longer bother trying to discern the truth and just wave ALL off as "Crazy Conspiracy Theory."

Take 9-11. It's actually the easiest event in our lifetime where the conspiracy can easily be seen, using simple math to realize that yes, the Government lies about it. The media lies about it. And anyone who points out otherwise is just a crazy "truther."

You don't need 100 certified structural engineers to sign an affidavit or produce a documentary to understand that 9-11 was certainly a conspiracy to effect a dramatic change in the world...just kindergarten level math:

2 + 3 = 666

or:

2 hijacked planes + 3 collapsed towers = New World Order

The truth is right there for all to see.

WTC 7 is the rosetta stone for understanding that yes, 911 was an open conspiracy... a tower that was not hit by any jet liner, collapsed after the other two towers collapsed. THEY even admit it over at Wikipedia. Google WTC 7 yourself and you'll see.

That's all you need to know to understand that everything we've been told about that day is a lie.

Post: #27

Yes, they are crazy.

We should trust the Western media to tell us the truth.

It's not like the media lies about women.

How could all those newspapers, magazines, and TV shows all put out the same anti-male, pro-feminist message?

One might say that rejecting the mainstream narrative on Western women implies that there has been a conspiracy to spred lies and suppress the truth.

That'd be crazy to believe, right?

So lets all go be nice guys, return to chivalry, and wife up these strong independent women.

Post: #28

(05-02-2013 02:38 PM)Cyr Wrote:  I don't think that's its a case of government working to harm people for its own malign interests but rather (in my opinion) government is often used as a vessel by powerful individuals/ big business to make money, sometimes at the expense of normal people.

I think there are also instances where the government has to hide things or fabricate a little in all of our best interests.

Post: #29

I think there probably are groups with specific interests who have a lot of influence, but I don't believe that there is one source of clandestine power that controls everything.

That's such and easy answer.

The reality is that there are forces of nature in the market place that have their own intentions as well as corporations that have their agendas.

They are very few Lex Luthor types, and most of those are famous.

Over the course of 20 years, they did a study on who were the top 200 earners in America, and almost no one person stayed in the top two hundred for more than a year.

Things are a lot more complex and chaotic then conspiracy theories would have you believe. It's not just a black and white world. Only a child sees things like this..

Post: #30

All types of little people conspire every day, but when a big organization or important person is involved, we are supposed to believe they never conspire.

The problem is that when one uses singular terms the anti-conspiracy theorists jump on it. For example, if I say "the CIA killed Kennedy," I really mean that rogue elements in the CIA, conspiring with who knows how many rogue elements (Cubans? Texas oilmen? etc) killed Kennedy. The anti-conspiracists will take it to mean I am saying that the entire CIA killed Kennedy.

The problem is that in a government organization there is enormous power and little to no oversight, so elements can run rogue. Sometimes the conspiracies metastasize and entire organizations can become corrupt - look at the CIA running cocaine.

These conspiracies usually are looking at an iceberg where they know 10% of the facts and are guessing the rest. The conspirators are good at shutting people up or misleading them, so they can become farcical. The best conspiracy theories rely strictly on hard evidence. Some good ones:

Oliver North, Bush Family, CIA
Family of Secrets
Six Day War
Wall Street, Banks, American Foreign Policy
Creature from Jekyll Island
Business Plot

Post: #31

Here is a reference to a more scientific approach using social network theory and an analysis of a massive database including over 13 million ownership relationships. One of the conclusions is that organizations can gain disproportionate control in the world due to their status as the hub of a network. Thus, concentration of power is an emergent property of an evolving complex system. No conspiracy theory is necessary to explain the concentration of power and wealth.

Who controls the world?

http://blog.ted.com/2013/02/13/who-contr...l-economy/

Post: #32

Of course conspiracies exist. It is human nature to conspire in order to bring about situations favorable to oneself and one's allies. Ask yourself the following questions:

1) If I were wealthy and powerful, would I do everything I could to maintain that wealth and power?

2) If I was in a position to affect certain outcomes which would be beneficial to myself and my allies, would I do so?

3) If I engaged in activity of this sort that was brazenly self-serving, would I go to great lengths to keep it out of the public eye?

Of course the answer to all of these questions is "Yes".

Hell, the RVF is a conspiracy of a loose sort: we all work together to share information to help each other get laid, make money and live a nice lifestyle. We aren't out to save the world. We're not here for the benefit of women or other men. We're here to improve our own stake in the world through pooling our knowledge and learning from one another.

The idea that the natural human tendency to conspire amongst an in-group somehow stops applying to wealthy and powerful people is directly comparable to the notion that human evolution gave men and women entirely different bodies but identical brains, and is equally as ridiculous.

Post: #33

(05-02-2013 04:03 PM)Sherman Wrote:  Here is a reference to a more scientific approach using social network theory and an analysis of a massive database including over 13 million ownership relationships. One of the conclusions is that organizations can gain disproportionate control in the world due to their status as the hub of a network. Thus, concentration of power is an emergent property of an evolving complex system. No conspiracy theory is necessary to explain the concentration of power and wealth.

Who controls the world?

http://blog.ted.com/2013/02/13/who-contr...l-economy/

This study doesn't mean what it claims to mean. All it shows is that most of the world's financial assets are held by financial services companies. Big surprise. It's like analyzing the world's oil supply and finding that it's all controlled by oil companies.

Look at the top five companies who "control" the world:

1. Barclays plc
2. Capital Group Companies Inc.
3. FMR Corporation (Fidelity)
4. AXA
5. State Street Corporation

Barclays is number one because it owned Barclay's Global Investments, which is the world's largest investment manager (which has since been sold to BlackRock). AXA is a huge global French insurance conglomerate. Insurance companies hold lots of assets, because they hold lots of liabilities (ie insurance policies). CGC, Fidelity and State Street are all mutual fund companies, meaning they hold lots of assets in lots of different investment accounts.

All this study shows is that institutional investors hold most of the world's financial assets. Who are institutional investors? Insurance companies, pensions, retail mutual funds. These things are all in turn owned by normal everyday people. Sure, the rich have more financial assets than the poor, but if you're reading this chances are you have some equity in a personal investment account or 401K or insurance policy.

This is not conspiracy or control, this is what a diversified financial system looks like.

Post: #34

Quote:All this study shows is that institutional investors hold most of the world's financial assets. Who are institutional investors? Insurance companies, pensions, retail mutual funds. These things are all in turn owned by normal everyday people. Sure, the rich have more financial assets than the poor, but if you're reading this chances are you have some equity in a personal investment account or 401K or insurance policy.

This is not conspiracy or control, this is what a diversified financial system looks like.

Good point. What the study fails to consider is that the real control resides in the Central Banking Systems, like the US Federal Reserve and the EU's Central Bank.

Those who own the Central Banks and call the shots on Monetary policies are the ones pulling the levers behind the curtain.

Post: #35

(05-02-2013 06:31 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

Quote:All this study shows is that institutional investors hold most of the world's financial assets. Who are institutional investors? Insurance companies, pensions, retail mutual funds. These things are all in turn owned by normal everyday people. Sure, the rich have more financial assets than the poor, but if you're reading this chances are you have some equity in a personal investment account or 401K or insurance policy.

This is not conspiracy or control, this is what a diversified financial system looks like.

Good point. What the study fails to consider is that the real control resides in the Central Banking Systems, like the US Federal Reserve and the EU's Central Bank.

Those who own the Central Banks and call the shots on Monetary policies are the ones pulling the levers behind the curtain.

This isn't really true either. No one owns central banks. They are quasi-government agencies. In the United States, all the banks in a specific area technically "own" the regional Fed bank, but it's not ownership in any meaningful way. Basically, it means that they are obliged to keep a reserve balance at that branch of the Fed.

Monetary policy is set by the Federal Open Market Committee, which is composed of the seven Fed Governors (Bernanke and six others, who are civil servants) and five of the 12 regional Fed presidents.

Post: #36

If you're on this forum, wouldn't you have to believe in conspiracy? Isn't the feminist imperative a conspiracy compared to the mainstream point of view?

Post: #37

The paper comes to specific conclusions about the structure of the network which are not obvious and it presents one view based on real data and not fantasy. It presents a model of how power concentrates as a natural result of the network that you can find in the details of the paper. Also, one of the implications is that even if you have a transparent system where everyone knows the rules, and it runs honestly you will still get the same concentration of power due to the properties of complex systems. Also, a similar phenomena of "hubs" occurs in the Internet and the human brain.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ado...ne.0025995

It is the scientific approach to coming up with knowledge, and in my view much more useful than a a conspiracy theorist spending countless hours searching through newspaper clippings looking for pictures of celebrities making the devil sign. Also, Chomsky used a data driven approach to come up with his "Manufacturing Consent". He used public documents to come up with his conclusions, assuming investigating conspiracies is not fruitful, as the intentions eventually show up in public documents. By definition, a conspiracy is a secret between people, so the conspiracy theorist doesn't have the data, and as an alternative, he just makes things up.

Post: #38

but it's not ownership in any meaningful way.

Your right. It's actually membership...to the fiat currency creation cartel.

http://www.webofdebt.com/

http://thecreaturefromjekyllisland.org/

Post: #39

(05-02-2013 12:42 PM)tenderman100 Wrote:  Are there conspiracies? You bet, but they tend to be quite small, and quite circumscribed. But 9-11, moon landing, Roswell? Fuggedaboudit!!

You're asserting a position without any logic or reasons behind it.

Post: #40

This thread is a pretty good example of why conspiracy theories tend to be full of shit. Conspiracy theorists almost never just come out and state their theories, beliefs, facts, whatever. Instead, conspiracies work by simply casting aspersions on the generally accepted truth. If you think the moon landing was faked, tell me how they did it. Tell me one person who was involved in faking it. If you think 9/11 was an "inside job," tell me who exactly did it and how they did it. And tell me how they managed to keep everyone involved quiet.

Like tenderman said, there are plenty of one-off historical events that are technically conspiracies, but the idea that the world is constantly being manipulated by an insular group of secretive elites is rubbish. Elites do have an outsized ability to impact the world - that's what makes them elites - but they tend to exercise their influence in very public ways

Conspiracy theories are to history what creationism is to evolutionary biology.

Post: #41

(05-02-2013 08:27 PM)j r Wrote:  This thread is a pretty good example of why conspiracy theories tend to be full of shit. Conspiracy theorists almost never just come out and state their theories, beliefs, facts, whatever. Instead, conspiracies work by simply casting aspersions on the generally accepted truth. If you think the moon landing was faked, tell me how they did it. Tell me one person who was involved in faking it. If you think 9/11 was an "inside job," tell me who exactly did it and how they did it. And tell me how they managed to keep everyone involved quiet.

Like tenderman said, there are plenty of one-off historical events that are technically conspiracies, but the idea that the world is constantly being manipulated by an insular group of secretive elites is rubbish. Elites do have an outsized ability to impact the world - that's what makes them elites - but they tend to exercise their influence in very public ways

Conspiracy theories are to history what creationism is to evolutionary biology.

Look in to the JFK shooting just a little, brother. I wish I could agree with you. Most conspiracies are crap, but that doesn't discount that there are and probably have been some seriously shady people at all levels of power for most of time. Some of these people would most likely want to protect their power using any means possible. Since there is so much bs out there though, it makes it hard to believe any of them. I get it. Concerning yourself too much with conspiracy though is foolish. You can still have a decent life in the West if you play your cards right, you would be much wiser to spend your time trying to bed women.

Post: #42

I think the term "conspiracy theory" is kind of a daft term.

To be honest, I think if you literally believe what the media tells you then you are an idiot.

On the other hand, I do not think if you do not believe what the media tells you, then you are a "conspiracy theorist".

You are then, someone who wants to know the truth and realises the whitewashing, manipulation and deception involved in mainstream media reporting.

At the end of the day,most of these "conspiracy theories" lead back to one thing - a small group of bankers (who largely happen to be Jewish) who want to believe they control the world and have agendas regarding the future of the world. It makes sense these people exist. It is just human nature.

Their agenda is power, control and domination of the world and some say population reduction. They use secret societies such as the Masons as a way to infiltrate many different countries. It all really aint so crazy when you look deeply into it.

Post: #43

(05-02-2013 09:30 PM)tiggaling Wrote:  At the end of the day,most of these "conspiracy theories" lead back to one thing - a small group of bankers (who largely happen to be Jewish) who want to believe they control the world and have agendas regarding the future of the world. It makes sense these people exist. It is just human nature.

Tiggaling, I hate to break it to you, but your father is Jewish. I meant to pull out, but your mother had her legs wrapped so tight around me that I didn't get out in time.

Now get back in mommy's basement and no more coming out until daddy says it's okay.

Post: #44

(05-02-2013 10:28 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  IKE - What was the real cause for the "Revolutions"? Was it not too eliminate the Money Powers or Vipers as Andrew Jackson referred to them.

Kosko - next time I see you I have a pretty cool story about the Rothschilds and Oppenheimers to tell you.

Well, I think you would get a different answer depending on which revolutionary you asked at the time.

Most people don't do a sophisticated analysis of their motives, they just know they don't have enough food or some other practical problem, some guy comes along and convincingly argues he has the solution, and away we go- Revolution!!

I think there was one factor in Czarist Russia where some areas had ALL their men conscripted for the military, I think for life!

This type of broad social persecution would really get people pissed off.

Post: #45

Post: #46

(05-02-2013 10:00 PM)tiggaling Wrote:  

Obviously a CIA plant, "honey-pot."

Post: #47

(05-02-2013 08:27 PM)j r Wrote:  And tell me how they managed to keep everyone involved quiet.

C'mon man, seriously? How many times are papers unclassified and conspiracies revealed 50 years later? Do you know how impossible it is to give a grand, overarching conspiracy when you are only looking at certain parts of the puzzle? Also, do you know how short the public attention span is - so that when a conspiracy is uncovered the public doesn't give a shit?

-Merck hushed up the fact that Vioxx was causing heart attacks, the news came out later and the public didn't give a shit.
-The Kennedys have always suspected that elements of the CIA and maybe LBJ conspired to assassinate Kennedy. No one gives a shit. We know Lee Harvey Oswald was a patsy but we don't know exactly how it went down.
-The government hushed up the Gulf of Tonkin conspiracy. No one gives a shit.
-FDR conspired to get the US involved in WWII. He had intelligence on the Pearl Harbor bombing but did nothing. No one gives a shit, or they praise him for it.
-Large bankers conspired to create the Federal Reserve on Jekyll Island in GA. They hushed it up at the time. When the news came out, no one gave a shit.
-CIA smuggled cocaine and funneled weapons to the contras. No one really gave a shit after they hushed it up for a while.

It is clear that the issue isn't that there are no conspiracies. The issue is that the details are initially kept secret. Evidence leaks out and it is clear the official story is a lie, but nothing conclusive can be proven. Even if something can be proven, the public doesn't give a shit after a certain time period.

Post: #48

Yes, they are crazy.

Government LOVES us.

Post: #49

Has anyone every met a woman who is into conspiracy theory?

Post: #50

(05-03-2013 08:06 AM)Sherman Wrote:  Has anyone every met a woman who is into conspiracy theory?

LOL i never thought of that... women don't question authority.