(06-08-2017 11:11 AM)BallsDeep Wrote: This shit's all on LeBron.
He disappeared the final five minutes, blew a layup and then settled for a fadeaway because he couldn't take Draymond off the dribble. Then he hid on defense, staying on Draymond while Durant was torching Korver and Tristan.
These comparisons to Jordan are ridiculous, LeBron's not even on Kobe's level. No way Kobe goes the last 5 minutes without scoring in the Finals.
Are you serious?
He's averaging 32 - 11 - 11 on above %50fg shooting in these Finals while guarding a 3 or 4 all time scoring SF. Neither Jordan or Kobe was ever asked to or capable of shouldering such a load in any playoff series in their entire careers.聽
He's much more superior to 2nd 3peat Jordan. 2nd 3peat Jordan needed a tonne of defensive help against those much weaker perimeter players and he still wasn't as good as LBJ. In fact MJ at the same age with far less mileage than current LBJ was getting shut down by an injured Gary Payton.
And I'd go as far as to say he's playing at a level = or superior to 91-93 MJ as well although I will say that version of MJ was a more explosive scorer.聽
No version of either MJ or Kobe could equal or surpass what he's putting out in this series in LBJs shoes.
(06-08-2017 03:13 PM)Banna Wrote: while guarding a 3 or 4 all time scoring SF. Neither Jordan or Kobe was ever asked to or capable of shouldering such a load in any playoff series in their entire careers.聽
That's the thing, he is not guarding Durant, not at all, Durant is killing him offensively.
Besides, this is Jordan's first 3-peat averages:
1991: 31.2ppg 6.6rpg 11.4apg 2.8spg 1.4bpg at 56FG%
1992: 35.8ppg 4.8rpg 6.5apg 1.7spg 0.3bpg at 53FG%
1993: 41.0ppg 8.5rpg 6.3apg 1.7spg 0.7bpg at 51FG%
(06-08-2017 03:13 PM)Banna Wrote: while guarding a 3 or 4 all time scoring SF. Neither Jordan or Kobe was ever asked to or capable of shouldering such a load in any playoff series in their entire careers.聽
That's the thing, he is not guarding Durant, not at all, Durant is killing him offensively.
Besides, this is Jordan's first 3-peat averages:
1991: 31.2ppg 6.6rpg 11.4apg 2.8spg 1.4bpg at 56FG%
1992: 35.8ppg 4.8rpg 6.5apg 1.7spg 0.3bpg at 53FG%
1993: 41.0ppg 8.5rpg 6.3apg 1.7spg 0.7bpg at 51FG%
Those stats just prove the point of how good Lebron is playing. Even Jordan in his prime against less competitive teams than the Warriors put up numbers questionably better than what Lebron is doing, outside of 1993. Lebrons total numbers when you look at more than just points are crazy.
Those stats just prove the point of how good Lebron is playing. Even Jordan in his prime against less competitive teams than the Warriors put up numbers questionably better than what Lebron is doing, outside of 1993. Lebrons total numbers when you look at more than just points are crazy.
I'm not impressed by his rebounds, Westbrook averaged more than 10 as a 6-3 guard. Lebron only grabs defensive, non-contested rebounds for the most part. He is 6-8, 250lbs, 10 rebounds is to be expected at that size.
Then he gets around 10apg this series, good not great, that's what a point guard should get, but he also has 6 turnovers a game. That's a paltry AST/TO ratio. Again, not really impressive. To compare, Magic in 1991 had 12.4apg and only 4 turnovers. Jordan same series had 11.4apg and only 3.5 turnovers.
Lebron is "shooting" 55%, quotes shooting, because he really only does layups. Even so, Lebron did not attempt more than 20 FGA in his first 2 games. When MJ faced the best offensive team in the league (1993 Phoenix), he took a whopping 33 FGA a game and hit for 51% anyway. When Lebron took 33 FGA against GSW in 2015 he shot 39%.
Lebron always looks great in the boxscore until you break down the context.
But you completely misrepresented the context. You compared each aspect of his game to a different player who did that specific aspect better at a specific moment in time and then concluded hes not that great, which is a completely illogical way of analyzing anything and I think you know that. But whatever, I suspect you are trolling, even if hes not Jordan this is a spectacular performance, even if it doesnt impress you.
Irving and especially Lebron are getting so much hate here. Why?
I'm not here to discuss the GOAT. I've only been seriously watching the NBA the past few years. But saying Lebron is this and that, chokes, not currently the best player in the game is unwarranted.
If he's not the best player, who is--Durant, Curry? Both of these guys were part of teams that choked 3-1 leads last year. Why isn't this being mentioned?
Last night he played 45 minutes of 48. Put up 40 points and almost had a triple double with 9 assists. Look at his stats the first two games and he clearly pulled his weight as well.
The problem, which only a few of you pointed out is that the bloody GSW team is just too damn good. Dying minutes of the fourth they went on a 11-0 run. Unlucky for the Cavs, because they were up the entire quarter. But you can't blame the Cavs offence because look who they're up against in crunch time: Klay, Curry, Iggy, Durant, and Green.
All of the above aside from Curry are sensational defenders. Doesn't matter because he didn't have to guard Irving. KT guarded him well all game--the only times Irving had some freedom was on a switch. On their last play KT showed why he's the best defending guard in the league.
Simply put, this GSW team has too much firepower, offensively and defensively. I hate that Durant went over to them, because they would have been a finals team nonetheless. Now we have to deal with this unbeatable team for some time to come, because Lebron (who's played in the past 7 finals?) is getting old, and I don't see another team that's able to challenge the hegemony the Warriors are creating.
(06-08-2017 06:02 PM)godzilla Wrote: Jordan played in an era where the talent was very spread out. All you had was Payton and Kemp, Stockton and Malone.
LeBron is playing out of his mind right now; similar to '86 Jordan. Just like '86 Jordan against the legendary '86 Celtics, it's just not enough. Unlike '86 Jordan, although the Warriors are a more talented team overall, I don't even think the talent difference between the Cavs and the Warriors is that big; they just have a bad coach who only got respect from riding LeBron to the finals. If they had Larry Brown, Greg Popovich, Jerry Sloan or Phil Jackson then this would've been much more competitive.
Kerr is an top level coach, and doesn't get enough credit for integrating Durant into the Warriors system as well as he did while keeping everyone's egos in check. Having great talent by itself is not enough to win championships. See the '04 superteam Lakers when they had Shaq/Kobe/Mailman/Glove and they still lost to the HOFer-less mostly good role player Pistons team 4-1 in the finals.
(06-08-2017 03:13 PM)Banna Wrote: while guarding a 3 or 4 all time scoring SF. Neither Jordan or Kobe was ever asked to or capable of shouldering such a load in any playoff series in their entire careers.聽
That's the thing, he is not guarding Durant, not at all, Durant is killing him offensively.
Besides, this is Jordan's first 3-peat averages:
1991: 31.2ppg 6.6rpg 11.4apg 2.8spg 1.4bpg at 56FG%
1992: 35.8ppg 4.8rpg 6.5apg 1.7spg 0.3bpg at 53FG%
1993: 41.0ppg 8.5rpg 6.3apg 1.7spg 0.7bpg at 51FG%
Feel free to show me which players in NBA history would contain KD in LBJs shoes. There was absolutely nobody the Bulls faced during their 6 title runs like KD. He would easily be the best SF in the 1990s. He's 6'9 with a 7'7" wingspan and can shoot over any SG or SF in NBA history with ease. On this current GS team he doesn't even have to create off the dribble as much like he did in OKC to score.
LBJ vs KD has been a wash. GS from 3 to 12 in the roster has thoroughly outplayed Clevelands outside of LBJ and Kyrie.
And lastly I watched all those 91-93 Finals.
1991....Los Angeles was happy enough to have beaten a younger favored Portland out West. Kareem and Cooper were gone as was Coach Riley. James Worthy missed a game injured. Chicago was much younger and in their primes. The mid 80s Lakers would've been a more formidable opponent.
1992....Portland. Michael vs Clyde was just media hype nobody ever thought Clyde was comparable to MJ other than dunking ability. I'd say Pippen was about as good as Clyde at that stage.
1993....Phoenix. Lol.....Are you telling me guys like Thunder Dan, 6'1" KJ or ole assed Danny Ainge who all took turns guarding MJ would be able to slow LBJ? They have always been a lousy defensive team.
It's more fair to mention 95-96 MJ when he was in his 30's like LBJ now and his athleticism was waning. He wasn't even close to being a 50% fg shooter like current LBJ in the NBA Finals at this stage of his career. In fact he was shut down by injured GP in the 96 finals.
(06-08-2017 06:02 PM)godzilla Wrote: Jordan played in an era where the talent was very spread out. All you had was Payton and Kemp, Stockton and Malone.
Totally irrelevant given they never met in the playoffs and not to mention for most of Olajuwons career in between Ralph and Clyde he was the only star on the team and the Rockets weren't contending until the 92 - 93 season on.
I do recall however in the few regular season meetings they had trouble getting the better of him.
(06-08-2017 03:13 PM)Banna Wrote: while guarding a 3 or 4 all time scoring SF. Neither Jordan or Kobe was ever asked to or capable of shouldering such a load in any playoff series in their entire careers.聽
That's the thing, he is not guarding Durant, not at all, Durant is killing him offensively.
Besides, this is Jordan's first 3-peat averages:
1991: 31.2ppg 6.6rpg 11.4apg 2.8spg 1.4bpg at 56FG%
1992: 35.8ppg 4.8rpg 6.5apg 1.7spg 0.3bpg at 53FG%
1993: 41.0ppg 8.5rpg 6.3apg 1.7spg 0.7bpg at 51FG%
Feel free to show me which players in NBA history would contain KD in LBJs shoes. There was absolutely nobody the Bulls faced during their 6 title runs like KD. He would easily be the best SF in the 1990s. He's 6'9 with a 7'7" wingspan and can shoot over any SG or SF in NBA history with ease. On this current GS team he doesn't even have to create off the dribble as much like he did in OKC to score.
LBJ vs KD has been a wash. GS from 3 to 12 in the roster has thoroughly outplayed Clevelands outside of LBJ and Kyrie.
And lastly I watched all those 91-93 Finals.
1991....Los Angeles was happy enough to have beaten a younger favored Portland out West. Kareem and Cooper were gone as was Coach Riley. James Worthy missed a game injured. Chicago was much younger and in their primes. The mid 80s Lakers would've been a more formidable opponent.
1992....Portland. Michael vs Clyde was just media hype nobody ever thought Clyde was comparable to MJ other than dunking ability. I'd say Pippen was about as good as Clyde at that stage.
1993....Phoenix. Lol.....Are you telling me guys like Thunder Dan, 6'1" KJ or ole assed Danny Ainge who all took turns guarding MJ would be able to slow LBJ? They have always been a lousy defensive team.
It's more fair to mention 95-96 MJ when he was in his 30's like LBJ now and his athleticism was waning. He wasn't even close to being a 50% fg shooter like current LBJ in the NBA Finals at this stage of his career. In fact he was shut down by injured GP in the 96 finals.
This is all written by someone who simply didn't watch 90s ball, am I wrong?
Thunder Dan was an all NBA defender, 6'6'' and very athletic. In 1993 he was All-Defensive 2nd team behind only Rodman, MJ, Pippen, Hakeem and Joe Dumars. Not exactly a scrub huh? Ahead of of Gary Payton.
Here's MJ blowing by Dan Majerle:
No one could guard MJ.
The reason they put smaller guys like Dumars or KJ on him was to try to even barely keep up with his first step. If you put a 6'6'' or 6'7'' guy on MJ, he blows past them like it's nothing.
Here is Jordan going against 6'7'' DPOY Dennis Rodman.
Rodman won the DPOY 2 years in a row from 89 to 90. This is before he was a rebounding specialist and he is generally considered here to be one of the best wing defenders ever in the game:
0.33 - Blows by him 1 on 1 isolation.
4.15 - isolation from half court
That's Rodman, one of the greatest perimeter defenders in the history of the game at his absolute peak and Jordan blows by him.
The NBA is a complete joke now. A bunch of whiny overpaid divas and thanks to expansion teams the whole league's talent pool is diluted. And that's not even getting into the whole "superteams" nonsense. All professional sports are fixed anyways. Sports betting is where it's at, unfortunately.
(06-08-2017 03:13 PM)Banna Wrote: while guarding a 3 or 4 all time scoring SF. Neither Jordan or Kobe was ever asked to or capable of shouldering such a load in any playoff series in their entire careers.聽
That's the thing, he is not guarding Durant, not at all, Durant is killing him offensively.
Besides, this is Jordan's first 3-peat averages:
1991: 31.2ppg 6.6rpg 11.4apg 2.8spg 1.4bpg at 56FG%
1992: 35.8ppg 4.8rpg 6.5apg 1.7spg 0.3bpg at 53FG%
1993: 41.0ppg 8.5rpg 6.3apg 1.7spg 0.7bpg at 51FG%
Feel free to show me which players in NBA history would contain KD in LBJs shoes.
The 1996 Bulls would have 3 alone, Rodman, Pippen, MJ.
(06-08-2017 07:34 PM)nomadbrah Wrote: This is all written by someone who simply didn't watch 90s ball, am I wrong?
Thunder Dan was an all NBA defender, 6'6'' and very athletic. In 1993 he was All-Defensive 2nd team behind only Rodman, MJ, Pippen, Hakeem and Joe Dumars. Not exactly a scrub huh? Ahead of of Gary Payton.
Here's MJ blowing by Dan Majerle:
No one could guard MJ.
The reason they put smaller guys like Dumars or KJ on him was to try to even barely keep up with his first step. If you put a 6'6'' or 6'7'' guy on MJ, he blows past them like it's nothing.
Here is Jordan going against 6'7'' DPOY Dennis Rodman.
Rodman won the DPOY 2 years in a row from 89 to 90. This is before he was a rebounding specialist and he is generally considered here to be one of the best wing defenders ever in the game:
0.33 - Blows by him 1 on 1 isolation.
4.15 - isolation from half court
That's Rodman, one of the greatest perimeter defenders in the history of the game at his absolute peak and Jordan blows by him.
I will accept Rodman as being a great defender but Dan Majerle was slow footed. Erase him from the equation of a person to put on Jordan. Joe Dumar could stick MJ well but obviously MJ had too many options. You lot keep comparing Jordan to Lebron. Lebron is a team player, MJ was a scorer. Compare MJ to Kobe instead. It's apples and oranges comparing the two. Technically they don't even play the same positions or choose to impact the game in the same way.