Post: #26

(06-02-2010 11:02 PM)kindredspirit Wrote:  The only thing I'd be wary of is the fact that for a Russian guy like you (Western-educated I assume?), things are going to be incredibly easier than a foreign guy who speaks no Russian.

The "Russia for Russians" mentality has indeed taken hold and I think except for a brief period after economic collapse, Russian girls have always had a strong preference for Russian guys/Russian speakers --- unless you make enough $$$ to overcome this preference.

Yeah, you certainly have a point.

BTW I wouldn't say Russia has the hottest chicks in Eastern Europe, so I would only recommend it if you really want an other-worldly experience that's going to make you want to kiss the concrete when you land back home. Mother Russia can be cruel, cold and unforgiving. I'm not referring to the women, but to just about every aspect of interacting with that country. Many things don't work, and many things will go wrong. It will build character.

With that said, maybe the point of optimality would be Western Ukraine. Or Lithuania. (Just check out the Lithuanian dating site pazintys.lt - THESE are the hottest chicks in europe).

It's like the analogy of the Boiled Frog. Throw a frog into boiling water and it will leap out instantly. Put it into cold water and turn up the heat, and it will likely sit there, sedentary, used to the heat. The same applies to visiting Eastern European countries - start in more civilized areas (CZ is perfect) and work your way to the land of Homo Erectus (Lithuania) and maybe eventually to Russia. Otherwise, the women are warm and receptive everywhere. (By the way, if you make it solo as a non-Russian speaker from Moscow to Vladivostok on the Trans-Siberian, there is not one hipster in the western world who can top this "self-discovery" experience.)

Another thing about learning Russian...it's an extremely difficult language to learn. Since I also know some Mandarin (can a white guy ever FULLY learn that language?!) I'll draw some comparisons about using language to game:

1. Using Russian language in Russia: Russian humor is dry and relies on wit and word-play. "That's what she said" doesn't work at all. Jokes are usually minutes long, and may require background knowledge of culture or politics to even understand. If you don't know Russian at this point, I'd advise against wasting time trying to learn it. Ideal play: funny/flake/apathetic/macho

2. Using English language in English-speaking countries: much easier, people will generally help you get your point across if you're clearly a beginner-intermediate English speaker. You just need a few cultural tid-bits and selected clippings from The Office to make girls laugh. Ideal play: cocky/funny/confident/social

3. Using Mandarin/Korean/Jap: even easier, though the languages are so difficult for us "westerners"! For example, in Asia it's OK to use short phrases and be repetitive. This would seem ill-mannered or "low-class" in Russia, but in Asia this makes you "wise" and "cute" if you know what I mean. A girl says 10 different things? Respond with the SAME PHRASE EACH TIME. Your facial expression is 100x more important. Just be "cute" and "funny" - you don't even need to be cocky/funny cause the guys in Asia have far different game. Ideal play: funny/cute/friendly/confident

Post: #27

You are just a fucking goldmine of information, there, Kurupt. Thanks very much for the information, keep it coming, seriously this is fascinating. I'm definitely interested in Eastern European girls and am curious about Russia, but I've heard so much negative stuff about it and the women (besides them being hot) that I had kind of written it off my list, now you've made me re-think it...

Post: #28

(06-02-2010 11:26 PM)Kurupt Wrote:  

(06-02-2010 11:02 PM)kindredspirit Wrote:  The only thing I'd be wary of is the fact that for a Russian guy like you (Western-educated I assume?), things are going to be incredibly easier than a foreign guy who speaks no Russian.

The "Russia for Russians" mentality has indeed taken hold and I think except for a brief period after economic collapse, Russian girls have always had a strong preference for Russian guys/Russian speakers --- unless you make enough $$$ to overcome this preference.

Yeah, you certainly have a point.

BTW I wouldn't say Russia has the hottest chicks in Eastern Europe, so I would only recommend it if you really want an other-worldly experience that's going to make you want to kiss the concrete when you land back home. Mother Russia can be cruel, cold and unforgiving. I'm not referring to the women, but to just about every aspect of interacting with that country. Many things don't work, and many things will go wrong. It will build character.

With that said, maybe the point of optimality would be Western Ukraine. Or Lithuania. (Just check out the Lithuanian dating site pazintys.lt - THESE are the hottest chicks in europe).

It's like the analogy of the Boiled Frog. Throw a frog into boiling water and it will leap out instantly. Put it into cold water and turn up the heat, and it will likely sit there, sedentary, used to the heat. The same applies to visiting Eastern European countries - start in more civilized areas (CZ is perfect) and work your way to the land of Homo Erectus (Lithuania) and maybe eventually to Russia. Otherwise, the women are warm and receptive everywhere. (By the way, if you make it solo as a non-Russian speaker from Moscow to Vladivostok on the Trans-Siberian, there is not one hipster in the western world who can top this "self-discovery" experience.)

Another thing about learning Russian...it's an extremely difficult language to learn. Since I also know some Mandarin (can a white guy ever FULLY learn that language?!) I'll draw some comparisons about using language to game:

1. Using Russian language in Russia: Russian humor is dry and relies on wit and word-play. "That's what she said" doesn't work at all. Jokes are usually minutes long, and may require background knowledge of culture or politics to even understand. If you don't know Russian at this point, I'd advise against wasting time trying to learn it. Ideal play: funny/flake/apathetic/macho

2. Using English language in English-speaking countries: much easier, people will generally help you get your point across if you're clearly a beginner-intermediate English speaker. You just need a few cultural tid-bits and selected clippings from The Office to make girls laugh. Ideal play: cocky/funny/confident/social

3. Using Mandarin/Korean/Jap: even easier, though the languages are so difficult for us "westerners"! For example, in Asia it's OK to use short phrases and be repetitive. This would seem ill-mannered or "low-class" in Russia, but in Asia this makes you "wise" and "cute" if you know what I mean. A girl says 10 different things? Respond with the SAME PHRASE EACH TIME. Your facial expression is 100x more important. Just be "cute" and "funny" - you don't even need to be cocky/funny cause the guys in Asia have far lower game. Ideal play: funny/cute/friendly/confident

Great posts, and analysis, all around. Hopefully you'll stick around the forums a bit...

Post: #29

I would skip CZ altogether, especially if you have contacts in another country or are half travel savy. There's something to be said for culture shock and the energy it gives you.

Post: #30

(06-03-2010 10:16 AM)hydrogonian Wrote:  Great posts, and analysis, all around. Hopefully you'll stick around the forums a bit...

Thanks, I hope to contribute everything I can.

I will add this for now:

Russia is a changing place. I guess it has been rapidly changing as long as I can remember, but the bottom line is that the average income is going up, even if quality of life somewhat lags behind it.

The best part is that at least some of the new generation seek positive change, transparency and better ties with the West & Asian trading partners. However, this new generation doesn't have any power yet, so it's a waiting game. Last time I was there, all the young people were trying to speak politely, not swearing and frowning upon alcoholism. This is all good to hear.

I've always told people, no matter when they ask me, that the best time to visit Russia is "in a couple of years."

If you guys are thinking about visiting Russia, I suggest hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. You must not let it depress you, because the current way things are run by the "old timers" is not a picnic. They'll give you logistical hell at every stage - starting with passport control (make sure your visas are in order).

I have so many funny/ludicrous stories from Russia (my own, and others I collected from bewildered Europeans who've visited) that would just not be possible without the uniquely Russian approach to everything. Everyone's first encounters with bribery are always funny... "Kurupt, how was this possible? I took a train from Poland to Russia, and tried to buy a return ticket as soon as I got off. She told me there are no trains to Poland!" That's Russia for you. Of course, everyone picks it up fast - he produced some dollars and a train to Poland materialized. In fact, there were suddenly many trains to Poland.

Back on topic, yeah I would re-iterate that maybe its best not to bother learning Russian. It's simply not good ROI. If you're old enough to pull off the "i'm here on business" improv act, that's a good one to play. Other than that, get a couple friends and hit Russia like travelers - the nightlife might give you enough adrenaline that you won't even feel bad about not banging anyone from the get-go. Just don't get lost, and know where your embassy is and what your rights are. You MUST carry your passport at all times (all Russians do this, and you'll see macho russian guys with knock-off chinese fanny packs, no joke).

But know your rights - this isn't 1963, don't take shit from police.

Post: #31

(06-02-2010 11:26 PM)Kurupt Wrote:  With that said, maybe the point of optimality would be Western Ukraine.

Western Ukraine is generally VERY conservative. Even Lviv is kinda shy, with only a few good clubs for a 700K city.

Post: #32

(06-03-2010 03:00 PM)Kurupt Wrote:  

(06-03-2010 10:16 AM)hydrogonian Wrote:  Great posts, and analysis, all around. Hopefully you'll stick around the forums a bit...

Thanks, I hope to contribute everything I can.

I will add this for now:

Russia is a changing place. I guess it has been rapidly changing as long as I can remember, but the bottom line is that the average income is going up, even if quality of life somewhat lags behind it.

The best part is that at least some of the new generation seek positive change, transparency and better ties with the West & Asian trading partners. However, this new generation doesn't have any power yet, so it's a waiting game. Last time I was there, all the young people were trying to speak politely, not swearing and frowning upon alcoholism. This is all good to hear.

I've always told people, no matter when they ask me, that the best time to visit Russia is "in a couple of years."

If you guys are thinking about visiting Russia, I suggest hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. You must not let it depress you, because the current way things are run by the "old timers" is not a picnic. They'll give you logistical hell at every stage - starting with passport control (make sure your visas are in order).

I have so many funny/ludicrous stories from Russia (my own, and others I collected from bewildered Europeans who've visited) that would just not be possible without the uniquely Russian approach to everything. Everyone's first encounters with bribery are always funny... "Kurupt, how was this possible? I took a train from Poland to Russia, and tried to buy a return ticket as soon as I got off. She told me there are no trains to Poland!" That's Russia for you. Of course, everyone picks it up fast - he produced some dollars and a train to Poland materialized. In fact, there were suddenly many trains to Poland.

Back on topic, yeah I would re-iterate that maybe its best not to bother learning Russian. It's simply not good ROI. If you're old enough to pull off the "i'm here on business" improv act, that's a good one to play. Other than that, get a couple friends and hit Russia like travelers - the nightlife might give you enough adrenaline that you won't even feel bad about not banging anyone from the get-go. Just don't get lost, and know where your embassy is and what your rights are. You MUST carry your passport at all times (all Russians do this, and you'll see macho russian guys with knock-off chinese fanny packs, no joke).

But know your rights - this isn't 1963, don't take shit from police.

Very interesting.

Even though I havent been to Russia, I often reread the book http://www.amazon.com/Exile-Sex-Drugs-Li...0802136524
for its graphic accounts of life, corruption and politics in Russia. Very good read, if you cant get there yourself, I suppose.

I desperately want to visit St Petersburg one day... Moscow as well, although I imagine that life there is a bit more "impenetrable" as a tourist.

Post: #33

(06-03-2010 07:05 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  Very interesting.

Even though I havent been to Russia, I often reread the book http://www.amazon.com/Exile-Sex-Drugs-Li...0802136524
for its graphic accounts of life, corruption and politics in Russia. Very good read, if you cant get there yourself, I suppose.

I desperately want to visit St Petersburg one day... Moscow as well, although I imagine that life there is a bit more "impenetrable" as a tourist.

I haven't heard of that book, but sounds like they try to paint a full picture. The picture certainly ain't pretty. The chapter on Russia in the "McMafia" book is scary accurate, however. I'd recommend that whole book actually, I think you'd get a kick out of it.

The thing about Moscow... 99% of EVERYTHING is there. This includes criminal activity, money and models. After all, these are all intimately inter-related. Moscow is a VERY expensive city - it's not so easy to be a "baller" there anymore. But I guess if you want the full experience, Moscow is a must-see. Advantage of more money in the city = less trouble for regular tourists. Mugging tourists like in the 90s is no longer popular or profitable, so literally the only threat is the pesky skinhead.

The majority of visible tourists in Moscow are actually Russian families visiting from other cities, while St. Petersburg attracts many more foreign tourists (it's a cruise stop) and is therefore more tourist friendly.

Neither city is particularly fascinating for me in the daytime, but that's only because I've been there and done that. I guess Russian cities have cooler "touristy" attractions than what you'd usually end up with - I'm talking about places you'd visit to kill time before the night life sets in. In Toronto these would be the "Hockey Hall of Fame" and "CN Tower" but I imagine a non-Russian guy would be pretty interested in all of Russia's random military museusm. Heck, the Hermitage in St. Petersburg is worth a look. (I still prefer NYC's Metropolitan, only cause I don't know anything about paintings). And when the nightlife begins...it doesn't really end until you "want it to end." Seriously, plenty of Russian bartenders have told me that they literally cannot close the bar until the last customer (usually a drunk German businessman in need of whores) feels like it's truly the last Jack Daniels. Nightclubs are easily open until 4 AM, if not 5 or 6.

One of the best things to do during the day would be to check out the parks in the city centers. In Moscow this would be the "Aleksandrovskiy Sad" which surrounds the Red Square area. Just sit down at a bench and observe what passes by you - hundreds upon hundreds of russian chicks congregate here, just as in any other park. When I visited after living in Canada, I felt like I was re-introduced to the concept of 8s and 9s aplenty. Like coming out of quarantine. It's mind blowing. This is the coolest thing about many russian chicks - they like the outdoors, so you are more likely to see the hot ones walking around etc. In Asia, the hot ones are all shopping, in arcades, or at Karaoke. There's nothing more a russian girl wants to do on a cool summer day than to sit in the park with her girlfriends, gossip and have a cig (and this is a new trend: 0% beer. wtf?)

Post: #34

(06-03-2010 11:56 PM)lavinci Wrote:  in all fairness you don't need to learn any language in EE like say you'd have to learn Spanish or Portugese in Colombia or Brazil.

I'm really curious about exploring Brazil/Colombia/Argentina - to see the sights and to meet the girls. Is there any chance of pulling the "I'm a guy who will give you English lessons" maneuver in any of these countries? I would seriously consider living in S.A. for 3-6 months or so once I get my passive income set up, but I'm not sure I can even get a good enough sense of the local language to make game happen in that timeframe. Would it be worth it?

In terms of contributing something in this post, I want to offer
*Kurupt's Mini Guide to Avoiding Skinheads*

Disclaimer: I don't associate myself with anyone who is/claims to be a skinhead, this is all information given from what I've heard from other travelers and other Russians. I have personally not run into a skinhead gang in Russia, but I spend very limited time there. This is just a mind dump for those interested, as I notice a lot of people commenting on skinheads in the EE threads, and Russia happens to be the unfortunate spawn point for these creatures.

The Bottom Line: the problem is real, and very serious. There are places in the city where the police are afraid to go at night. The skinheads mostly target people who physically look non-Slavic, and will concentrate their attention on those who look like illegal workers. It will take a particularly stupid skinhead to go after someone who is likely to be a Western tourist, however, because that opens up a whole can of worms for them. Let's say they attack an American tourist - the embassy is contacted, and Russia has to do damage control. Which means people get yelled at internally, and it trickles down to some pissed off policemen who are going to go in and dish out some retribution. The skinheads are going after those who are permanently living in Russia. However, they are still the equivalent of rabid dogs and are very unpredictable.

Avoiding skinheads 101: open up a map of moscow. You will see that the city has been designed with concentric circles, or "rings" in mind. You'll see 3 main rings depicted in orange color by Google Maps. If you're within the first inner one, you are in the safe zone, you should be OK. Within the area of the second ring, you are probably going there for specialized activities (particular sporting event or concert, maybe) and should be going with a friend, if its at night. Read: you have no reason to be outside the second ring at night by yourself. Unless you are in a taxi headed to the airport, or on a train headed to St. Petersburg. Always stay within range of street lamp lights and only walk along roads that have a lot of traffic. This way, there will be other pedestrians (hopefully) and passing drivers will see what's going on on the sidewalk. I've mentioned that going with a friend is recommended, and it is, but realize that 2 guys will not be enough to deter determined skinheads. They have nothing to lose.

DO NOT try to take a "shortcut" through Russian alleys at night to save on walking time or whatever. If it's after sunset, you should ignore any street on your map that doesn't have major vehicular activity. As for the Metro (subway system), it's actually REALLY safe in Russia - there are literally cops and sometimes special forces patrolling the stations and trains, I don't think skinheads even make it on to the subway as they gotta pay for needles and vodka. So if you're there with a friend, you can stay out past the Metro closing time provided one of you is sober enough to call a cab afterwards (arrange price before getting in). If you're by yourself, might be advised to stay either within comfortable walking distance of your hotel (< 500m) or within Metro hours.

If you see skinheads approaching: at this point the standard world rules apply. Move to an area with more people, better lighting, start walking confidently in the other direction. Perhaps this is the only situation in Russia in which I'd consider LOOKING for police. If they speed up, you speed up. They have knives, so don't try to pull anything heroic. Otherwise, these guys are fucked in the head - don't expect to rationalize or reason with them. I'm sure that skinhead gangs range wildly in viciousness, from the guys who casually got together and got tattoos....to the ones armed and with a nightly kill quota of Central Asian peddlers.

Post: #35

Kurupt, lots of excellent info. Thanks!!

Post: #36

This is awesome kurup. I'll post a new thread about asian game partly based on your post.

Post: #37

great post, dont forget to just run!

Side note... when talking to other people, what I have found is if you can speak very slowly and use very simple words, people with little english can understand you. I speak like a cave man sometimes because I know someones english is limited, but most people will understand basic words.

Post: #38

Quote:There will be someone there who can and will defeat you. If this person is not immediately present they will phone him.

That is seriously hilarious.

Post: #39

lavinci - what city was that in you were reffering to?

Post: #40

(07-05-2010 04:31 PM)Brian Wrote:  lavinci - what city was that in you were reffering to?

Moscow, Kiev, Lvov, Minsk, Chisinau... you can list pretty much every large city in ex-USSR. One of churches in Moscow still uses the donated bell which says in writing "from Solntsevo gang". Most of them are now dead though, and the rest is working for the government.