Post: #1

I'm a language nerd, I do this shit for fun, I'm currently working on Spanish and Japanese, so I should make mention of the fact that I LOVE learning new languages and I am dead set on being able to speak at least half a dozen languages fluently within the next 5-10 years or so, so doing this sort of thing is something I don't really consider "work", it's fun, I like it.

However, I'm anal retentive about not wasting time on a language that will turn out to be less useful than another one I could be learning, which is why Chinese isn't high on my list (I don't plan on visiting China, and a lot of people in HK speak English) nor are the Scandinavian languages (everyone there speaks fluent English).

However, for quite a while I've had my eye on Eastern Europe, and now with all the activity on the forum recently even more so. I'm particularly interested in Romania, Ukraine, Moldova, Czech Republic, Latvia and Estonia...and maybe the Balkans. Just Eastern Europe in general, in other words.

Now, this presents quite a problem as far as languages go because Romanian is a romance language and not in the least bit related to the languages of any other surrounding countries except Moldova, which shares its language with Romania (i.e. Moldovan = Romanian, same thing even though the Moldovans don't like to admit it). Most other Eastern European countries use a Slavic language: Czech, Russian, Ukranian, Estonian. I know that a lot of Ukrainians understand Russian, but I had heard before that they HATED speaking it because it's thought of as "the language of the oppressor [Russia]", though I just read recently that people in Kiev use Russian more than they use Ukrainian, sooo....?? Czech is Czech and no one else uses it (fuck!), and I believe they speak Russian in Belarus primarily, and Russian is also used in a lot of other former Soviet satellites despite the fact that it's not an "official" language there.

So...you guys who have been around Eastern Europe: what's your opinion, if you had to make a list of Eastern European languages to learn in order of priority (usefulness)???

Post: #2

(05-24-2010 12:49 PM)Shaman Wrote:  So...you guys who have been around Eastern Europe: what's your opinion, if you had to make a list of Eastern European languages to learn in order of priority (usefulness)???

Estonian is Finno-Ugric, not Slavic.

Latvian and Lithuanian are Baltic-Slavic languages, although Russians make up something like 40% of the Latvian population, so you'd easily get by using Russian there. Russians make up a smaller percentage of the population in Lithuania and you might have a hard time getting by on only Russian (although you'll be fine with English in any of the Baltics).

Czech and Slovak, for the most part, are mutually-intelligible. There are also many similarities between Czech and Polish. If you learned Czech fluently, you'd probably have an easy time learning Polish, which would open up that whole corridor for you.

A good percentage of Ukrainians speak Russian in the home. It's not seen as the language of the oppressors.

You're right about Romanian; learning it won't help you in any other Eastern European state.

Bulgarian is a part of the Slavic family but has many unique features which separate it from other Slavic languages. It's mutually-intelligible with Macedonian (many of the Balkan languages are mutually-intelligible).

Post: #3

Ah, thank you, that was VERY helpful, and I knew that Estonian was Finno-Ugric, I just had a brain fart--I believe Hungarian is also vaguely related to Finnish and therefore Estonian, as well.

Is English really that common in the Baltics? That amazes me considering how poor it is there...how about the rest of Eastern Europe as far as English goes? I can't imagine too many people in Ukraine speak it, nor Romania or Moldova...probably a decent number of people in the Czech Republic do, but I'm not sure it's common enough that you could rely JUST on English there, same thing with Poland.

At this point I'm tentatively eliminating Russia from my list of potential places to hit due to the violence problem and reputation their women have for being cold and manipulative, though this may very well change later. I think I read on here or elsewhere that if you stay out of Moscow you'll be presently surprised, so I'm not sure on that one...

Post: #4

English is your best bet in all those countries. Most of the entertainment for all other countries is in English. I remember walking into a gas station in the middle of the Bulgarian countryside and hearing "make love in the club" being on the sound system. this wasnt a club in the city, this was a gas station in the middle of nowhere

Post: #5

Ukraine, moldova, russia, belarus : russian
Balkans : serbian/croatian, and learn cyrillic
Czech : dont bother, english literacy there is very very high

I wouldn't be caught dead with only english in the balkans. It's a survival issue, not pickup. Cheers.

Post: #6

(05-24-2010 06:49 PM)Shaman Wrote:  Ah, thank you, that was VERY helpful, and I knew that Estonian was Finno-Ugric, I just had a brain fart--I believe Hungarian is also vaguely related to Finnish and therefore Estonian, as well.

Is English really that common in the Baltics? That amazes me considering how poor it is there...how about the rest of Eastern Europe as far as English goes? I can't imagine too many people in Ukraine speak it, nor Romania or Moldova...probably a decent number of people in the Czech Republic do, but I'm not sure it's common enough that you could rely JUST on English there, same thing with Poland.

Yeah, Hungarian is Finno-Ugric as well, although none of the Finno-Ugric languages are mutually-intelligible. Estonian and Finnish are close, but Hungarian sounds nothing like the other two.

English is very common in the Baltics. And the Baltics are not that poor.

English is reasonably common in CEE. I've never been to Moldova, Ukraine, or Belarus, so I can't comment about those countries. But I've been to the following countries in the past 6 months:

CZ: most young people can understand / speak capably. Expect communication issues but you'll be able to get around.
PL: most everyone I met spoke English well, but I spent the majority of my time in Krakow, the University city. I didn't have any problems with English in Warsaw, though.
Baltics (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania): English is widely-spoken here. I think Estonia has the best English-language competency out of any CEE country. I don't remember having any problems in Latvia or Lithuania but I also don't remember being impressed.
Bulgaria: I didn't have any problems but there were a few times that I had to pantomime and use hand gestures to communicate.

Actually, come to think of it, I had more problems with English in Spain when I was there in December than I did in any of the CEE countries.

(05-25-2010 12:55 AM)familydude Wrote:  Ukraine, moldova, russia, belarus : russian
Balkans : serbian/croatian, and learn cyrillic
Czech : dont bother, english literacy there is very very high

If you know Serbian, you'd basically be able to get around all of the Balkans, right? I know that Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, and Montenegrin are basically all dialects of Serbo-Croatian, and Albanian and Serbian are mutually-intelligible.

Post: #7

(05-25-2010 01:04 AM)Eric Wrote:  If you know Serbian, you'd basically be able to get around all of the Balkans, right? I know that Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, and Montenegrin are basically all dialects of Serbo-Croatian, and Albanian and Serbian are mutually-intelligible.

You're right about Serbian all around the balkans. Maybe you'd get some weird looks in croatia, but it doesn't mater since you're a foreigner. You can speak serbian to people above 30 in macedonia and slovenia and they'll understand since they learned it in school during the yugoslav era. For bulgarian, just catch a quick course and you'd be ready to go for survival. Also, keep in mind that languages are not even homogenous in these countries, for example, people in the south of serbia almost speak like bulgarians.

As for Albanian, it's weird and has nothing to do with slavic languages.

Post: #8

(05-25-2010 01:38 AM)familydude Wrote:  As for Albanian, it's weird and has nothing to do with slavic languages.

I knew it wasn't Slavic; I have an Albanian friend who says he "understands" Serbian, but now that I think about it he probably just speaks Serbian.

Post: #9

Russian would probably get you by with the most amount of people, but with the anti-Russian sentiment in a lot of Eastern Europe I don't know if it would necessarily help you.

I would say your best bet is English in the Baltics. In Poland I had problems communicating for sure (I don't speak any Slavic languages).

I don't know anything about the Balkans.

At the same time, if you learn something like Romanian, which is similar in some ways to Romance languages, you could distinguish yourself from the throngs of sex tourists who come. Girls def put out more to guys who make an effort to get familiar with their language and culture. A big issue for a lot of girls is the stigma of dating a foreigner. I have an Asian friend in Estonia who has mobs of hot chicks and cool guy friends because he owns a business there and they know he is there to stay. He also speaks intermediate Estonian and hosts art shows.

I've noticed that countries with relatively larger populations (Ukraine, Poland) have less of an English speaking population. I guess this is because, due to the size of their country, people can generally get by without having to learn English. Compare this with the Baltics, where the level of English fluency is very high due to small populations.

If you can learn the local language, you will have a consistent and unbeatable advantage over the mobs of Italians and Turks who invade every summer.

If I were you I'd learn Ukrainian or Romanian, as those are languages of countries with fairly large populations.

Post: #10

Ukrainian is useless. You only need it if you're going to a Ukrainian university.
I'm Ukrainian and I don't even speak Ukrainian. Most of the population speaks Russian. They teach Ukrainian and English from 1st grade, while Russian is taught from birth.

Post: #11

(05-25-2010 09:24 AM)wolf Wrote:  Ukrainian is useless. You only need it if you're going to a Ukrainian university.
I'm Ukrainian and I don't even speak Ukrainian. Most of the population speaks Russian. They teach Ukrainian and English from 1st grade, while Russian is taught from birth.

BINGO. THAT was useful!!! Thank you. If a fucking Ukrainian says you don't need to know Ukrainian, then you don't need to know Ukrainian. Russian it is. Oh, also how well would you say people speak English there?

Post: #12

(05-25-2010 01:43 PM)Shaman Wrote:  

(05-25-2010 09:24 AM)wolf Wrote:  Ukrainian is useless. You only need it if you're going to a Ukrainian university.
I'm Ukrainian and I don't even speak Ukrainian. Most of the population speaks Russian. They teach Ukrainian and English from 1st grade, while Russian is taught from birth.

BINGO. THAT was useful!!! Thank you. If a fucking Ukrainian says you don't need to know Ukrainian, then you don't need to know Ukrainian. Russian it is. Oh, also how well would you say people speak English there?

I asked my dad he said quite a few people know English, you ask 3 people there is a good chance one will know English. I have two Ukrainian friends, they are fluent but they never speak Ukrainian, even with each other.

Also Russian humor is completely different, you can't just say a couple of words or some curse and people laugh, it's more like a story or a riddle and the last couple of words breaks everything down. I never understood it. In America it's easy, someone insults you, you insult them back harder and everyone laughs.

Post: #13

(05-26-2010 03:41 PM)lavinci Wrote:  I was thinking about all languages in the world, I was wondering what language I should start learning and I went with Russian.

I would choose French simply because it's a diplomatic language and one of the working languages of the European Commission and an official language of the UN. It's also widely-spoken in Africa.

Post: #14

(05-24-2010 08:11 PM)Brian Wrote:  English is your best bet in all those countries. Most of the entertainment for all other countries is in English. I remember walking into a gas station in the middle of the Bulgarian countryside and hearing "make love in the club" being on the sound system. this wasnt a club in the city, this was a gas station in the middle of nowhere

funny memory, one of my first trips out in BFE Costa rica, a mountain resort that the rare gringo has ever heard of much less been... there i am middle of no where at a banks party. Everyone is playing 60´s american twister music, I thought I was in the twilight zone.

Post: #15

(05-24-2010 12:49 PM)Shaman Wrote:  Now, this presents quite a problem as far as languages go because Romanian is a romance language and not in the least bit related to the languages of any other surrounding countries except Moldova, which shares its language with Romania (i.e. Moldovan = Romanian, same thing even though the Moldovans don't like to admit it).

And I have not yet met a chick in Romania which could not speak decent English, so unless you gonna go to countryside, it would have little value to you.

Post: #16

(05-25-2010 03:18 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  If I were you I'd learn Ukrainian or Romanian, as those are languages of countries with fairly large populations.

Disagree.

Pretty much everyone in Ukraine speaks Russian (unless you go to a remote "selo" in Carpathian mountains in Western Ukraine where "gutsul" live - but what they speak is not really a Ukrainian anyway, I speak it natively and had hard time talking to them).

Pretty much every young chick in Romania speaks English. Again, if you go to some remote areas of the country, they may not, but why would you go there in the first place?

Learn Russian.

Post: #17

i wouldn't learn most of the languages you mention, but it is me and I do speak 6-8 languages

For me the order of importance is like this:
1) english
2) spanish
3) mandarin
4) german --->most europeans know a bit of german, at least center east europe plus is a great language (my fav)
5) french is spoken in a few european languages, african, caribbean and even in Asia

I speak an exotic, almost useless language, too and adds to the cool factor---->dutch
even that is spoken in 3 EU countries and you can really get in South Africa and the ex dutch colonies and actual partner islands in the caribbean.

Post: #18

(06-01-2010 08:46 PM)lilactag Wrote:  For me the order of importance is like this:
1) english
2) spanish
3) mandarin
4) german --->most europeans know a bit of german, at least center east europe plus is a great language (my fav)
5) french is spoken in a few european languages, african, caribbean and even in Asia

This means your target area is mostly Western Europe, northern part of South America and China/Taiwan/Thailand/Cambodia, right?

For me it is English, Russian and Mandarin. I'm not into Latino women, so I can skip Spanish/Portuguese (which I consider mandatory if you travel often to South America), and I see little value in German unless you plan to spend significant time in Germany or Austria. Same with French unless you plan to live in France or Quebec, or do foreign affairs. Contrary to them, Russian gives you access to ~20 countries with beautiful ladies most of whom doesn't speak English good enough, and approximately half of those countries you don't need visa to enter.

Post: #19

Mandarin is hard to learn. Maybe I was just lazy. Most chinese people I met talk Cantonese, even though most of the population talks Mandarin.

Post: #20

As a Russian guy, I'm gonna say Russian is probably the best idea for Eastern Europe (taken as an average).

However, it REALLY depends on the country. Try speaking Russian in Czech Republic - not the best approach (might as well start singing everyone's favorite communist anthem). I guess CZ isn't really Eastern Europe, but I see way too many similarities in culture and I'm not going to let them get away with "We're CENTRAL EUROPEAN" no matter how clean their trams are.

Although to be honest, if you speak English and can slow it down and enunciate for the girls to understand, it could easily be a superior language in most Eastern European countries, where the literacy rate is so high and the level of English is high as well. This way, you're going to get more or less the educated girls who at least speak some rudimentary English. Up until very recently, this was even a "super effective" maneuver in Mother Russia, but the whole country got re-washed with the whole "Russia is for Russians" mantra.

As for the rest of E-Europe, I think you'd have more success as a debonair foreign English-speaking "businessman" than an "enthusiastic backpacker well versed in cyrillic" any day of the week.

"East of the curtain, Sex is for certain"

My only tip for Russia: skip Moscow, head to St. Petersburg. It's like triple distilling everything: 90% less douche, 90% less skinheads, 90% less headaches. It's much cheaper too. Day game in St. Peter is epic, and the nightlife makes Vegas' look pathetic. Go to a good hotel, befriend all the bartenders at 8PM and just hang around an hour or so. However, hardly anything about western/asian game applies in Russia - be alert, and be careful. Never show a thug/skinhead that you are afraid. Don't start the fight, but don't show them you are afraid even if you are. They are dogs and can smell fear. I guess the most epic time to visit to visit St. Peter would be during the "white nights" during the summer - imagine a 24/7 party without the tourists (most tourists are already scared of Russia, so this is less of a problem). Also the girls think its really romantic. Not to mention everyone (including families) comes out to chill during white nights, so it's super safe.

I'm new to the forums, this looks like a goldmine of a community and I hope to give/take a lot. Interested in slender chicks, so E-Euro + E-Asia for me, please. I also speak Mandarin so I guess that helps.

Post: #21

(05-24-2010 12:49 PM)Shaman Wrote:  I am dead set on being able to speak at least half a dozen languages fluently within the next 5-10 years

I can relate to the appeal of being able to speak additional languages. But 6 in the next 5 to 10 years. Thats a lot. How many do you speak now?

Are you going to live abroad for years at a time in the future? If not its going to be tough to learn the languages fluently because of lack of practice opportunities, and also if you are not practicing consistently you will get weak.

More power to you if you can pull it off. This is the type of thing that will impress people everywhere.

Post: #22

(05-25-2010 12:55 AM)familydude Wrote:  Ukraine, moldova, russia, belarus : russian

If I'm not mistaken, you can add the the Baltic States to this as well:

Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.

While I'm not too experienced in this region, from what I know, Russian is definitely the most useful language to know in eastern Europe.

Post: #23

(06-02-2010 07:54 PM)Kurupt Wrote:  hardly anything about western/asian game applies in Russia -

Whats the game like in Russia?

Post: #24

(06-02-2010 08:34 PM)PartyTime Wrote:  

(06-02-2010 07:54 PM)Kurupt Wrote:  hardly anything about western/asian game applies in Russia -

Whats the game like in Russia?

For one, you don't have to deal with cockblocking as there are hardly any guys that are going to be any competition. Provided you don't somehow enter a knife fight with skinheads in some dark Russian alley, you basically can rule out Russian guys out of your field of vision. Go to a St. Petersburg nightclub, something respectable with 15 USD+ cover. If you're cleanly shaven, not stupid drunk or coked up, you are 99% there.

Honestly, what's the challenge in picking up Russian girls? You come up to the hot ones and talk to them, within a few seconds you'll know if they like you. It's not about the "game" of picking up girls, but the "game" of not contracting an STD. That's it. Russian guys can't dance (I'm Exhibit A), if you can dance at all you won't need to do anything other than accept invitations from girls to dance and have a mojito.

Go to St. Petersburg, get a hotel (lol "hostels" in Russia = don't try). Ask the hot chick at reception where the hottest clubs are for your age - be very direct, you are a sex tourist. You want girls in age group x, your budget is y, and your maximum allowable distance from hotel is z. Go to the club/lounge she recommends - will end up being a laid back dance club or a jazz lounge, maybe. The scene changes, I don't live there at this moment. Go to club, find girl that you like, use your best judgement that she isn't a prostitute (this is hard in Russia), check for English language ability and possibility of coked up husband. I'd roll with another guy just for safety - you can split when one of you gets a chick.

You are there on business, and have been there for a month. You have friends in Russia (this is important). Seriously, just watch out for this tactic: super hot russian girl WILL bang you, may/may not give you an STD and at 5 AM will call "Pasha" and "Dimitriy" from your hotel room. They'll clear out your cash. Good morning.

Epic move would be: get a hotel so nice that the hotel bar/club itself is THE place to be. Upon showing evidence of room key to female, you will be done. If there's any resistance, order white wine to room service and some dessert. Take items to roof / rooftop terrace of hotel, talk about the horizon and what lies beyond. 30 minutes later, return to room.

Here's another pro-tip for Russia: do not try to impress ANYONE with your superior drinking abilities. There will be someone there who can and will defeat you. If this person is not immediately present they will phone him. The whole north american "we did 10 jagerbombs last night bro!" mentality DOES NOT work in Russia - drinking is a legitimately serious nation-wide problem, the stereotypes are true, and girls will respect the fact that you drink casually. Hold your liquor, but know that you don't win ANY POINTS by downing xx vodka shots. Trust me, she has seen it all. It's also not necessary to get girls drunk, but 1-2 shots doesn't hurt anyone.

Post: #25

(06-02-2010 08:56 PM)Kurupt Wrote:  

(06-02-2010 08:34 PM)PartyTime Wrote:  

(06-02-2010 07:54 PM)Kurupt Wrote:  hardly anything about western/asian game applies in Russia -

Whats the game like in Russia?

For one, you don't have to deal with cockblocking as there are hardly any guys that are going to be any competition. Provided you don't somehow enter a knife fight with skinheads in some dark Russian alley, you basically can rule out Russian guys out of your field of vision. Go to a St. Petersburg nightclub, something respectable with 15 USD+ cover. If you're cleanly shaven, not stupid drunk or coked up, you are 99% there.

Honestly, what's the challenge in picking up Russian girls? You come up to the hot ones and talk to them, within a few seconds you'll know if they like you. It's not about the "game" of picking up girls, but the "game" of not contracting an STD. That's it. Russian guys can't dance (I'm Exhibit A), if you can dance at all you won't need to do anything other than accept invitations from girls to dance and have a mojito.

Go to St. Petersburg, get a hotel (lol "hostels" in Russia = don't try). Ask the hot chick at reception where the hottest clubs are for your age - be very direct, you are a sex tourist. You want girls in age group x, your budget is y, and your maximum allowable distance from hotel is z. Go to the club/lounge she recommends - will end up being a laid back dance club or a jazz lounge, maybe. The scene changes, I don't live there at this moment. Go to club, find girl that you like, use your best judgement that she isn't a prostitute (this is hard in Russia), check for English language ability and possibility of coked up husband. I'd roll with another guy just for safety - you can split when one of you gets a chick.

You are there on business, and have been there for a month. You have friends in Russia (this is important). Seriously, just watch out for this tactic: super hot russian girl WILL bang you, may/may not give you an STD and at 5 AM will call "Pasha" and "Dimitriy" from your hotel room. They'll clear out your cash. Good morning.

Epic move would be: get a hotel so nice that the hotel bar/club itself is THE place to be. Upon showing evidence of room key to female, you will be done. If there's any resistance, order white wine to room service and some dessert. Take items to roof / rooftop terrace of hotel, talk about the horizon and what lies beyond. 30 minutes later, return to room.

Here's another pro-tip for Russia: do not try to impress ANYONE with your superior drinking abilities. There will be someone there who can and will defeat you. If this person is not immediately present they will phone him. The whole north american "we did 10 jagerbombs last night bro!" mentality DOES NOT work in Russia - drinking is a legitimately serious nation-wide problem, the stereotypes are true, and girls will respect the fact that you drink casually. Hold your liquor, but know that you don't win ANY POINTS by downing xx vodka shots. Trust me, she has seen it all. It's also not necessary to get girls drunk, but 1-2 shots doesn't hurt anyone.

Good solid post and thanks for the unique Russian take.

The only thing I'd be wary of is the fact that for a Russian guy like you (Western-educated I assume?), things are going to be incredibly easier than a foreign guy who speaks no Russian.

The "Russia for Russians" mentality has indeed taken hold and I think except for a brief period after economic collapse, Russian girls have always had a strong preference for Russian guys/Russian speakers --- unless you make enough $$$ to overcome this preference.