Post: #76

[/quote]
Vodka Bar was enjoyable. I have no idea how an 80% figure was reached.

I've spent almost 2 weeks in Scandinavia (Iceland excluded) and got nothing, and it's supposed to be easy there. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt since the individual's looks, style and demeanor factor more than you think. There is no universal pussy paradise.
[/quote]

Your right. I have no way of knowing that 80% of the girls there that night were working but it is fair to say at least the majority of them there that night were and all the ones I talked too were. Simply put on a Sunday night is unlikely many regular girls with jobs or students with a heavy workload would be out late, the regular girls tend to out on Friday and Saturday. Moreover many of the girls I have noticed in the clubs midweek are a semi-pro meaning that they might have a dead end job paying a few hundred dollars a month and although they are "working", with enough game and much booze you might get a ONS without paying for it. I have a had a few. These are girls in the 5-7 range, anything hotter in the 8-9 range you would have to pay for it was what I experienced.

Post: #77

(02-27-2013 06:12 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  Many suspect you learned Russian to pick up chicks for which you spent a considerable amount of resources and time instead of investing on your career.Russian is not a respectable language like German, French or Swedish unfortunately.
However I am a great fan of slavic languages, they are the sounds of our good neighbours.

On the contrary, Russian is the most practical language to learn for EE and Russia. If you are nothing more than a holidaymaker, then it is pointless and I have said as much myself. If you intend to live there and move around a bit, or you have to do business there, it is invaluable.

Back story, as always, is important in these things.

Post: #78

Quite right.
My main gripe with Kiev was not necessarily that they were working girls but the fact they were disingenuous. I am sure guys are getting laid in these clubs without directly paying for it, but you can spot these seemingly genuine girls a mile off. After 3 weeks in Kiev I returned to Vodka bar on a wim since i was walking past it. Sure enough there were the same types of guys talking to the same girls that frequent there and similar bars known to tourists. It's a false enterprise. AS long as you know that then fine, but don't think you swooped these girls because of your good looks and witty banter.
try some of the venues I mentioned in another Ukraine Kiev and it is an entirely different ball game.




Vodka Bar was enjoyable. I have no idea how an 80% figure was reached.

I've spent almost 2 weeks in Scandinavia (Iceland excluded) and got nothing, and it's supposed to be easy there. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt since the individual's looks, style and demeanor factor more than you think. There is no universal pussy paradise.
[/quote]

Your right. I have no way of knowing that 80% of the girls there that night were working but it is fair to say at least the majority of them there that night were and all the ones I talked too were. Simply put on a Sunday night is unlikely many regular girls with jobs or students with a heavy workload would be out late, the regular girls tend to out on Friday and Saturday. Moreover many of the girls I have noticed in the clubs midweek are a semi-pro meaning that they might have a dead end job paying a few hundred dollars a month and although they are "working", with enough game and much booze you might get a ONS without paying for it. I have a had a few. These are girls in the 5-7 range, anything hotter in the 8-9 range you would have to pay for it was what I experienced.
[/quote]

Post: #79

(03-04-2013 05:21 AM)gadabout Wrote:  Quite right.
My main gripe with Kiev was not necessarily that they were working girls but the fact they were disingenuous. I am sure guys are getting laid in these clubs without directly paying for it, but you can spot these seemingly genuine girls a mile off. After 3 weeks in Kiev I returned to Vodka bar on a wim since i was walking past it. Sure enough there were the same types of guys talking to the same girls that frequent there and similar bars known to tourists. It's a false enterprise. AS long as you know that then fine, but don't think you swooped these girls because of your good looks and witty banter.
try some of the venues I mentioned in another Ukraine Kiev and it is an entirely different ball game.

(03-03-2013 10:50 PM)rishboy77 Wrote:  

Vodka Bar was enjoyable. I have no idea how an 80% figure was reached.

I've spent almost 2 weeks in Scandinavia (Iceland excluded) and got nothing, and it's supposed to be easy there. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt since the individual's looks, style and demeanor factor more than you think. There is no universal pussy paradise.

[/quote]
[/quote]
Your right. I have no way of knowing that 80% of the girls there that night were working but it is fair to say at least the majority of them there that night were and all the ones I talked too were. Simply put on a Sunday night is unlikely many regular girls with jobs or students with a heavy workload would be out late, the regular girls tend to out on Friday and Saturday. Moreover many of the girls I have noticed in the clubs midweek are a semi-pro meaning that they might have a dead end job paying a few hundred dollars a month and although they are "working", with enough game and much booze you might get a ONS without paying for it. I have a had a few. These are girls in the 5-7 range, anything hotter in the 8-9 range you would have to pay for it was what I experienced.
[/quote]
[/quote]



Good observations on all accounts. As a long time veteran (living and working here full time since 1998) I have noticed the game change dramatically. I can point it to 2004 when the so-called "Orange Revolution" put Kiev (Ukraine) on the map. Within 6 months Westerners were no longer required to have Visa's. Made a huge difference, when the flood gates of sex tourists came in, first a trickle, then within 2 years a deluge.

There have always been working girls in clubs, however, there presence was minimal and they were very easy to spot (most simply sat at the bar and drank tea or coffee, never alcohol and would give you a "Top Gun" eye lock that was hard to miss). Now they mingle, drink, dance and even make out with you, wasting precious time. Then when you go in for the pull home, they hit you with a price. Even the one's who don't speak English. It's much murkier nowadays. Many of them don't even call themselves prostitutes. They say they are looking for "sponsors", and believe me there is a fine line between sponsoring a girl, a prostitute and a freebee. For those who don't know Russian, don't live here and don't know the culture, it can be even much more frustrating.

The main difference being if a girl is looking for a sponsor she will generally only choose men whom she is attracted to either physically, financially or both, a prostitute will sleep with anyone for a price, although the price of sponsoring a girl will lower the more she likes or is attracted to you. The reasoning behind sponsoring (in their minds anyway) is that why just sleep with someone even when you are attracted to them, when they will more than likely just use you, not take you out, not take care of you, basically "pump and dump" and not get anything out of it? These girls and the majority of Ukrainian women are looking for LTR. Marriage is like a religion in these parts. Not to say the women aren't loose, like to party, drink etc. and there are freebees out there to be had, but the waters are murky. Most have shitty jobs(if they have one at all) or are students, etc. and things like make up, clothes etc. cost real money....Many women in western countries up until the 1960's were similar, perhaps not as obvious and in more subtle ways, but hey if you haven't noticed, Ukrainians and Russians are quite direct people. We complain about feminism, but we can't have our cake and eat it too.....If anyone has noticed from history, when the era of Mad Men stopped is basically when women's lib, feminism came into the mainstream. People complain about how slutty American women are and how they don't take care of their appearance, etc. Whereas Slav(Russian/Ukrainian, etc.) women are more feminine, care about their appearance and always look good. However, looking good, sexy clothes, make up etc. takes time, effort and costs money guys. These women don't do it for fun or "that's just their culture" BS. They do it for a reason, they all have an agenda. These girls are bigger players (with higher stakes) than any so-called western player can imagine. Most so-called western players are really way out of their league here. Hell most don't even realize that the game is actually being played on them. By the time they realize it, they usually leave with a bad taste in their mouths. It's a different world out here fellas. These girls are all brought up with the goal of getting themselves a husband, have children, or at least someone to take care of them. That's it. Things like "career" are footnotes. We all like and want feminine women, but without the baggage of having to take care of them or LTR, marriage etc. Unfortunately we can't have it both ways. Maybe someday I hope.......

Good luck out there, but as you can see Kiev is no poosy paradise either.......

Post: #80

Hello everyone,
Im new in the forum. Been reading a lot and this is my first post. Im not sure if this is the right thread but here are my impressions about Kiev and i wanna share my experience with you guys.

Ive been here for 8 days already and Im competely blown away by the talent: abundance and quality. I was leaving on Monday but im changing my flight 8 days after. U can imagine how much im loving this. It took me a few days to set up good dates, know how things work here, know how to move around so now that im getting results i wanna take the most I can from Kiev,

To begin with Id say im mostly a daygamer. I use direct game and game along the streets, mainly khreskatic but i also do malls another streets or coffee shops.
Ive had many dates and instant dates and finally yesterday my first bang and got my flag. A married 29 hottie, id say 7.5 with a 3 year old baby. Met her in a street near Dinamo stadium. And an instant date with her, felt lot of atraction. 2 days after seconds date and make out and 3 date she comes to my "for coffee" and finally bang. Lost of LMR and resistance, she was playing the " i should be here" " Ive never done this before" " this is wrong i should go" for almost 2 houras until we went into action.

I have 2 more dates set for this weekend with other girls including an 18 year blonde little princess. ( im 30 so in spain where i come from this would not be possible)

But get it wrong, its not so easy. Some girls are very Open and receptive but others are very bithcy or dont speak English. But there so many hotties that no need to bother. Next... Other problem is that they are traditional and need at least 3 dates fro the bang. I feel that being spanish it an asset, i get good reactions. I dont go to expensiva places on my dates, just nice coffee shops on first dates and average sushi in second dates.

I still dont know other good locations for daygame in Kiev?? Any suggestions?
And is any one doing daygame in Kiev at the moment? Id enjoy meeting and sharing some experiences.

Hopefully this has been of some help. Once im more familiar with the forum ill wrote longer post with more detail.
Ill try to keep you guys updated about my adventure here.

Best wishes

Post: #81

(08-09-2013 05:19 PM)Thespaniard Wrote:  Hello everyone,
Im new in the forum. Been reading a lot and this is my first post. Im not sure if this is the right thread but here are my impressions about Kiev and i wanna share my experience with you guys.

Ive been here for 8 days already and Im competely blown away by the talent: abundance and quality. I was leaving on Monday but im changing my flight 8 days after. U can imagine how much im loving this. It took me a few days to set up good dates, know how things work here, know how to move around so now that im getting results i wanna take the most I can from Kiev,

To begin with Id say im mostly a daygamer. I use direct game and game along the streets, mainly khreskatic but i also do malls another streets or coffee shops.
Ive had many dates and instant dates and finally yesterday my first bang and got my flag. A married 29 hottie, id say 7.5 with a 3 year old baby. Met her in a street near Dinamo stadium. And an instant date with her, felt lot of atraction. 2 days after seconds date and make out and 3 date she comes to my "for coffee" and finally bang. Lost of LMR and resistance, she was playing the " i should be here" " Ive never done this before" " this is wrong i should go" for almost 2 houras until we went into action.

I have 2 more dates set for this weekend with other girls including an 18 year blonde little princess. ( im 30 so in spain where i come from this would not be possible)

But get it wrong, its not so easy. Some girls are very Open and receptive but others are very bithcy or dont speak English. But there so many hotties that no need to bother. Next... Other problem is that they are traditional and need at least 3 dates fro the bang. I feel that being spanish it an asset, i get good reactions. I dont go to expensiva places on my dates, just nice coffee shops on first dates and average sushi in second dates.

I still dont know other good locations for daygame in Kiev?? Any suggestions?
And is any one doing daygame in Kiev at the moment? Id enjoy meeting and sharing some experiences.

Hopefully this has been of some help. Once im more familiar with the forum ill wrote longer post with more detail.
Ill try to keep you guys updated about my adventure here.

Best wishes

keep us updated with your adventures mate !

one question:

how much money will you expect to spend in your adventure in Ukraine?

Where did u flight from?

Post: #82

TheSpaniard, what's your experience with night game, especially the clubs as that's where majority of my approaches happened when I visited Kiev in July? Also, what is your knowledge of Russian? I would really be surprised (shocked) if you don't speak the language yet are getting a very high success rate as my experience would have sucked in Kiev had I not known the native language.

Post: #83

how much money will you expect to spend in your adventure in Ukraine?""

Well, 20 days apartment. 1000$+400$ direct flight from madrid+ food/taxis/dates/ expenses id say another 1000$ aprox.

BCZalgrys to answer to your question: im not nightgaming because its my type of game, i find daygame much more profitable in terms of results. I did go out one night with a friend and the language was a problem. Id say that 50/60% of the girls dont speak english. I was at a local pub calles dockers at the center and after we ent to d Lux club. Many hot girls but many prostitutes. I was doing well with a girl but I was kind of paranoid with the uncertanty about if the was a hooker or not. She didnt seem like that at all but i still was very suspiciuos because of the place we were at. Even though finally she left home with her friends, and dont want to give me her number so I asume she wasnt a hooker because at some point for sure she should have told me about the"business".

Anyway, I have no experience with night game in Kiev. I love daygame, specially here, because there is a much higher rate of good girls/ normal girls you can find rather than the hookers/gold diggers that u find at night. Its also for free, you have unlímited acceso the streets at any time, and it save a time, you just take 10 min to get a number from an interaction. But unfortunately the language like you say is an issue. Ive lost many girls, id say like 60% because they dont speak English. Even though there are so many hot girls that with a little patience you will find some and they will be quite Open to interact. But im loving this so much that im definatly gonna learn Rusky and come here one month next year to fully the wonders of Kievs talent. And maybe ill also try other destinations in FSU.

Hope this helps!

Post: #84

Welcome to Kiev!

Can you give us an example of your direct daygame? What you say, how you approach, etc.

Post: #85

(08-10-2013 02:47 AM)Thespaniard Wrote:  Anyway, I have no experience with night game in Kiev. I love daygame, specially here, because there is a much higher rate of good girls/ normal girls you can find rather than the hookers/gold diggers that u find at night. Its also for free, you have unlímited acceso the streets at any time, and it save a time, you just take 10 min to get a number from an interaction. But unfortunately the language like you say is an issue. Ive lost many girls, id say like 60% because they dont speak English. Even though there are so many hot girls that with a little patience you will find some and they will be quite Open to interact. But im loving this so much that im definatly gonna learn Rusky and come here one month next year to fully the wonders of Kievs talent. And maybe ill also try other destinations in FSU.

Hope this helps!

Great reports - keep it up. I head back to Kiev in a few weeks and want to focus on day game this time.

Post: #86

and what kind oc rivalry do we have with men in Ukraine? I mean,which are mainly their motivation in life,how do they use to look and dress...etc

Post: #87

(08-10-2013 08:02 AM)Kristian Wrote:  and what kind oc rivalry do we have with men in Ukraine? I mean,which are mainly their motivation in life,how do they use to look and dress...etc

Their main motivations are to make money,drink and fuck.They look very ugly possibly the ugliest Slavs(uglier than Poles).When they have money though they dress stylish(better than Poles).

Post: #88

Spaniard,nice info keep us updated if still there.
What do you tell girls,that you're a tourist,or you have some nice background story for them ready?
Also,you running solo?

Post: #89

Welcome to Kiev!

Can you give us an example of your direct daygame? What you say, how you approach, etc.
PM Quote

Thanks Slubu. I read many of your posts and got a lot of positive things from your experiences.

Regarding to my daygame style: Ive been doing daygame since a little more than a year and i has literally changed my life in every way, not only in picking up more girls but in being a more confident and socible person. I run the daygame model of one most famous companys of this style game. I go from behind, stop them steping just in from of them, I do a direct compliment (normally low investment) then a light tease and trasition with assumptions/statements and conveying my personality in a playful way and then after attraction is done just normal comfort.

Just to make things clear, in my opinión its not pussy paradise. You gotta work, approach al lot, loose many girls because of the language, handle many rejections and be willing to do 3 dates at least. But however, If you have a decent game and you are willing to invest some time here you will get results. Id say that here normally everyone would do a little better than at his own country. Id say that being from other country adds to your benefit ( at least me being from spain has got me many good reactions) . To be specific after 10 days here for the moment I am banging just one girl, and have another one for a second date which is looking quite promiising.. But its true that I needed a few days to settle down and learn how it works here. Now i feel much more confortable here. Tomorrow im hittiing the streets for more new victims.


What are good places for dates at Kiev? Any good suggestions?

""""What do you tell girls,that you're a tourist,or you have some nice background story for them ready?
Also,you running solo?""""
For the moment Ive been telling im just traveling and that im on holidays. Actually true and since I genuinely travel a lot and a friend was coming with me I felt no need to lie. But now my friend is leaving and im staying here solo so I think ill say that i came for work, to help a spanish company that busy property in eastern europe like roosh adviced on his book. I think it will work well, but havent tried yet..

Post: #90

To completely abandon night game in Kiev is insane since the city has the best clubs in Ukraine however it can save sb lots of cash.It is very tempting idea but I do not think most mongers in Kiev can resist the appeal of night game.
The main problem is exhaustion which comes naturally after some days of night game, fucking, day game,dating one needs to be a machine and have lots of stamina.Kiev is one of the few cities where both night game, day game and internet game are fruitful so one wants to have them all.

Post: #91

Guys I fucked up, consecuences of gaming taken girls..

Im experimenting a dreadful situation. Im seeing a married29 girl with a 3 yr kid. I daygamed her a few days ago here in kiev and things have lost control. Last night she came to visit me late at night telling me that she is sick of her husband. She told me they where at this party and guy eneded up drink like mad. He needed help for walking and coudnt even talk. So she decided to leave him to sleep and come to see me to mine. I thought it was a risky move but she said her best female friend was covering and that in case sth happens she will conver.

Already at my at place after 50 minutes of her being here the husband starts texting. He was half drunk. He was calliing her horrible names in Ucranian and saying he was very suspiciuos. He said that he not trust her and that he niticed her acting weird lately texting a lot and with her mind away...After an hour of conversation vía whatsapp with the husband it seems that he calms a little and ends up buying that she is with her female friend and that she left because of his bad behavour, but still there is a lot of tensión and uncertainty.

She is crying and Im feeling like total crap, like a really bad person. I never in my life been with a married girl. I ve been at some point with a girl with boyfriend but never a girl with family. When we had our first instant date she was telling how bored she was of her life and routine, I thought I could bring a little joy and adventure to her world. Never wanted to mess with her life or cause her any trouble. Id never could imagine this could happen! How naive is that!? She also got carried away things and we acted stupidly. She went through the 3 stages in tears. First blaming her husband for making her so miserable and for being an alcohólic, then blaming me for entering her life like that, flirting with her and escalating knowing that she is married and then blaming herself for letting herself into it. Actually all 3 are true. But im just feeling terrible. I came here for holidays, daygame and fun and now I destroy the the life if a married girl. The worst thing is that shes kinda fallen for me and telling how now im gonna dissappear from her life and how much pain im gonna leave in her heart and how hard is gonna be to forget me. It actually makes me feel even worse and I have to admit that I Iike her a lot..

Now im waiting for her to text en and tell how things are home..And guys I feel like mess. I was going to change my flight and stay here one more week to enjoy Kiev and continúe daygaming but finally im keeping my flight and leaving to Madrid tomorrow morning. The girls works right by my place with her husband. I cant just leave her with that mess and keep on with my life daygaming like nothing. I better leave to spain let her fix things, it will make it easier. Of course I could stay and dont tell her but It doesnt feel right and not in the mood for more bullshit. I wanna go to back home take a few days break of girls and relflec on things. Its obvioous that the lesson is learned and hopefully its useful for someone here. Messing around with girls that are taken is not a moral thing to do and it can have bad consecuences and destroy someones life, its not a game....

Id appreciate some thought suggestions or ideas.

Post: #92

Spaniard,
I'm sure players here have experienced similar stuff and can advice better than me.
Either be an ass and move location, continue your adventure, although with possibly a bad taste in your mouth it seems like, and would not be as fun..
And it seems you have decided to go home anyway.
Just tell her that you do not want to ruin her life, she must fix it herself, but that you like her and would have your casa open for her back home in Spain. (If a GF is what you want that is, and be prepared to spend $$, at least on her tickets to spain)
And that you take it from there, possibly plan for more visits to her in Kiev, but being a player, you do not want to go to Kiev for this purpose only, unless you really plan to marry her or have serious relationsship. Also consider her child, and that it would also be a part of your life.
Ukrainians and Russians get divorces like never before, so its not like she would be the first one.
So either give up life being a player and go for LTR or marriage with this woman, (Which down the road most likely will not work anyways..sorry..)
or get some distance, let it calm down and re-think..
Time is your friend here.

Haha, I just read this thread here:

Thailand - Most pathetic man ever

I hope you will not write us a similar Ukrainian version in a year or so..

Post: #93

My advise is to buy her a chocolate.

Post: #94

Don't blame yourself at all. If it wasn't you it would have been someone else. She's just running high on emotion, keep a strong frame.

Post: #95

(08-11-2013 04:04 AM)Thespaniard Wrote:  Id appreciate some thought suggestions or ideas.

Don't allow her to make her problems your problems. Break off contact. There is nothing for you to feel bad about. You didn't make her marry the drunk. She will be looking at you as an escape. Don't fall for it.

Post: #96

I focus on Ukrainian girls 25 and under, no divorces, no boyfriends/fiances, no kids. You experience almost no problems this way, besides the occasional call from Mama asking when she will be home.

Post: #97

Murder-suicides are actually very common in Ukraine due to cheating wives. Don't be surprised if you get a knock at your door from the police bright and early in the morning.









Kidding, I totally made that up. What you need is THC and his "Don't feel bad." routine. All you need is a few beers and a couple of friends to tell you to not feel bad, it isn't that big of a deal, and your problems will be magically whisked away.

Post: #98

(08-11-2013 07:09 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  What you need is THC and his "Don't feel bad." routine. All you need is a few beers and a couple of friends to tell you to not feel bad, it isn't that big of a deal, and your problems will be magically whisked away.

That looks like a perfectly healthy hamster to me.

Post: #99

Good that you learned a lesson but you should stay and forget her. What your doing is white knighting to deal with her issues...she had them before you and will have them after you!
Don't think for a moment that she hasn't had these tensions over and over with husband. Probably if you ignore her things will go back to normal for her.

***part of me bets if the drunk was rich, she would be totally defending him**

Post: #100

"Messing around with girls that are taken is not a moral thing to do and it can have bad consecuences and destroy someones life, its not a game....

Id appreciate some thought suggestions or ideas. "

TheSpaniard, I agree with your statement BUT don't you think you should have found that out on your 1st/2nd date before becoming attached to her?
Also, I thought you were an approach/dating machine like Greek Kamaki and there for fun and for the field reports (just jokin' about the 2nd part). Now your post is sounding very beta and you have only yourself to blame for putting yourself and the girl in that situation. Pardon my expression but half of the guys on this forum would give their right nut to be in Kiev right now in the middle of the summer among the beautiful девочки on Хрещатик and to be able to game for 20 days like yourself! For me it took one trip a while back to get over the women depression in my current home (Washington, DC) that had been building up ever since I graduated from University. Honestly I felt like I was back in University being invited to a sorority party. You have young, beautiful women everywhere on the streets and you decide to go for a 29 year old, married woman, with a kid. Don't you think you should have found that out on the 2nd date? 3 dates is a lot of time to invest in a woman while on vacation and not realize that she has so much drama in her life. I love women who are a bit older myself but the older the women the more "shit-testing" I do before I show any commitment towards an STR.
I agree with Roosh's comment, I myself never go for women with kids or other baggage like marriage, and I even avoid her if she has a serious boyfriend whose a local (don't want any possible confrontations during vacation time).
This is another reason why I love going on 1st / 2nd dates as the time/money commitment is not great and you can isolate the girl and in many cases (not all) find out if she has baggage. If I don't know the girls status (husband/bf/kid/divorced, etc.) after the 1st date or feel she is hiding something I don't call back. There are too many kind, beautiful, and unspoiled women in Kiev to waste your time & energy on someone who has instability in her family.
My 2 cents,
BCZalgyris