Post: #26

I'm not staunchly opposed to buying a girl a drink. Some guys here are saying "why not do it?" My whole attitude is: why do it. I mean, it's really not likely to make the pickup go any better. If she wants a drink, she can buy one herself. I just met the girl. Mostly I just never think to buy one for her, and if she asks for one (which I can't remember ever happening) it throws up a red flag for me anyway. I would make an exception if I invited her out on a date to an exclusive hotel bar or a small venue like that and I knew she doesn't make that much money, but most women make enough money these days to spend 30 or 40 bucks on a night out.

This really hasn't been too much of an issue with me, it's sort of like the issues of gay marriage and abortion. I don't really care about them. Let the homos marry and let the babies be scraped. I just don't want to see my taxes go up.

Post: #27

(05-09-2010 09:31 PM)Kona Wrote:  Maybe I'll spend $40. On top of swooping the girl, I'm going to enjoy a few cocktails and talk up some nice folks. Maybe I'll buy them a few.

Hmm this got me thinking. I do buy rounds of drinks for groups I'm in, but I rarely buy an individual girl a drink. It's not a conscious thing to do one but not the other. It's a fun gesture to buy your boys and a group of girls shots.

Post: #28

i buy drinks a lot. But less so for the girls im after. Chinese bar culture is built arround drinking games, and i kick almost everyone's ass, that sometimes i get a girl too drunk and i miss out on an oppertunity, like that 23 year old trophy wife that bought me a bottle of vodka.

My rule for buying drinks for girls are
1) Always buy your pivots a drink. This is of course normal.

2) The rest of the time its gut feeling. Ive had situations where i buy a girl one cocktail and shes goes down after the first sip. Nothing ruins your night after getting a chick passed out.

3) If a girl seems like she is encouraging me to buy more then a single drink (as maybe a round or a bottle or a set of 12 beers) i find someone else, since most of the time she is working and get a commission from the bar. Very common in china.

4) If a girl appears intoxicated, (flushed face, problems sitting up, etc...) I NEVER buy her a drink. Really drunk girls irritate me.

But i agree with the general sentiment. You need to do it like its natural and not like you are trying to win her affections with a drink or that it is any kinda deal what so ever. Its got to be done in the "hey im going to the bar, you want something" kinda mindset.

Post: #29

Here is a good rule of thumb:

If it benefits you to buy a girl a drink, do it.

Example, isolating a girl, a girl is cool and you want to have more time, getting her to loosen up, making yourself the G of the group etc.

If you are not sure, don't do it.

Example, a girl juicing you for drinks. (In my experience, this never really happens. I think this is a thing for the younger set .)

Post: #30

(05-10-2010 07:08 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Example, a girl juicing you for drinks. (In my experience, this never really happens. I think this is a thing for the younger set .)

In my experience, this happens frequently in places where a lot of girls have an ego or a need to be validated. ie: in NYC. And not only in posh bars either. Some girls want to feel like princesses, to get congruent with the vibe of that city, and they feel that getting chodes to buy them drinks is a way to validate themselves to that image. But maybe Im over-analyzing it. I think some of them may make a game out of not paying for drinks.

But where I am, in phlly, I can't really remember catching a girl doing this. But then again, I stay away from the corny wannabe 'posh' club scene here. The girls in the bars I go to are pretty down to earth.

Post: #31

(05-10-2010 10:54 AM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

(05-10-2010 07:08 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Example, a girl juicing you for drinks. (In my experience, this never really happens. I think this is a thing for the younger set .)

In my experience, this happens frequently in places where a lot of girls have an ego or a need to be validated. ie: in NYC. And not only in posh bars either. Some girls want to feel like princesses, to get congruent with the vibe of that city, and they feel that getting chodes to buy them drinks is a way to validate themselves to that image. But maybe Im over-analyzing it. I think some of them may make a game out of not paying for drinks.

But where I am, in phlly, I can't really remember catching a girl doing this. But then again, I stay away from the corny wannabe 'posh' club scene here. The girls in the bars I go to are pretty down to earth.

I've only been to philly once, but it's probably one of my favorite sports bar cities. Every night I went out was a blast. The girls....not so much.

Post: #32

hydrogonian,

I see what you are saying, and I don't doubt it. I never really seem to get the girls like that at high end spots.

I think it all comes down to reading the girl.

Post: #33

(05-10-2010 11:16 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  hydrogonian,

I see what you are saying, and I don't doubt it. I never really seem to get the girls like that at high end spots.

I think it all comes down to reading the girl.

your right.

Post: #34

(05-10-2010 11:12 AM)UgSlayer Wrote:  I've only been to philly once, but it's probably one of my favorite sports bar cities. Every night I went out was a blast. The girls....not so much.

This can be a rough city for finding hot women. They're here, but tend to hibernate during the long winter months. It makes it hard on a player, because while you don't want to put too much value on any one woman, the good looking / classy girls, who can hold a conversation, seem to be just so far in-between. Many guys will overate very average looking girls as being hot, if for nothing but the fact that there aren't very many truly hot women around.

The city is generally poor / working class, and the average womans level of refinement is about the same.

So you have to fight the tendency to game the good ones in the wrong way, ie: like they're a rare commodity. Also, it tends to make the 6's act like they're 9's. But more power to 'em, I say. It doesnt bother me much, as I can usually break em down either way.

Hitting up the University City area (Penn and Drexel) is usually the best bet. Lots of hot, more refined young women, many imported from other areas of the country.

Then theres the hipster scene, which is hit and miss. If you can find a reasonably sane one thats also good looking, it can be worthwhile.

And yeah, a guy will have zero trouble finding a rabid sports bar scene here. You can find some young and dumb ex catholic shcool girls at these bars, who can be okay. Or the occassional decent college girl or Milf. But like I said, if a girl is in any way really decent, she usually has her boyfriend with her or has a severe self over-valuation problem. The average type of guy that goes to these bars does a lot to make the overall sports bar scene not very cool, in my estimation.

Post: #35

I remember when I first turned 21, there was a short girl I was talking to and me and her worked together and got kinda flirty for a while. We went out one night and she was having trouble getting a drink because she was so short and everyone was crowding the bar. I told her I would get the drink for her, but she was buying. I got the drink, handed it to her, and asked her for the money. She said that I could pay for it. I told her to ask another sucker to do it because I'm not an ATM. After that, me and the girl had a grudge. That may be the only instance where not buying a drink has hurt me, but honestly I think it was a good thing because obviously the girl was a stuck up little whore. A week later I met another girl at work who came in from out of the country and she was A LOT cuter. I think not buying the drink ended up paying off in the long run. I guess it was kind of a dick move on my part in a way, but fuck her. She shouldn't have told me to get her the drink and then ask to pay for it. I made it clear what was going on, and I even probably would have bought her a drink later on that night if she wasn't such a bitch about that drink. That was my first experience with a girl asking for a drink or buying/not buying a girl a drink at the bar.

Post: #36

Exactly G..why do to a bar if you're worried about the difference of a $5 12 pack sitting at home alone or a larger tab with the opportunity to meet and score with women.

I also never bought into the who never buy drinks thing. If you want to party and have fun, like most guys do, then buy a round but make sure its YOUR idea. When some random bitch tells you to buy drinks, that is when you push back. Treat them like one of your buddies. If one of my boys tells me to buy him a drink then he can fuck off...but out of sake of partying I'll buy a few rounds for the hell of it...usually its reciprocated. From guys you get drinks bought back, from girls maybe you get a number or more.

Post: #37

Yesterday and the Sunday before that, I swooped two different girls at The Polo Stadium, using the opener, "come here, I want to buy you a drink."

The first one wasn't 100% pure because I had swooped her sister in the past. The one yesterday was a complete stranger.

At that specific bar, the workers love me. I have the place completely locked down. All I did was wait until I could identify a girl giving off a strong available vibe then go up and use my opener. In both cases the girl said ok, and I took her hand and started leading her to the bar. On the walk there I got our introductions out of the way, which also got me a cheek kiss and an arm around waist walk.

This is where I knew I'd closed though: Like I said the bartenders love me out there. I hadn't said hello to them until the girl was present each time. The staff was happy to see me and stopped what they were doing to shake my hand and chat it up for a minute. Then they asked me who the girl was. It was instant status for me.

Both cases the bartenders told me the first drink was on them so I suggested a shot, and in both cases the girl agreed. I like to get mezcal or cheap tequila in this situation. It will hit the girl hard, and she'll forget whatever bullshit was running through her mind prior to it. It makes her focus on you. After that I bought another drink for each of us. Then it was time to go to the smoking area. I played around with the weed and cigarette game out there. Went back in and bought one more.

All the while I just spit my normal rhetoric (yesterday was a heavy push-pull) until they were at my house in bikinis. Me buying the drinks gave these girls the feeling that I was in charge. On the third drink I playfully told them they couldn't order the drink they wanted and made them get something else. The subtle dominance I showed there carried through to later on when I was banging both of them.

The girl last Sunday was a better investment than the one I swooped yesterday. The money I spent on four drinks with the first girl got me laid twice that night. She came back Monday night and I fucked her again. We also hooked up Thursday, where I leveraged the drinks I purchased at Polo into her buying me dinner. Then back to my house for sex twice. All told that's 5 lays for the price of 4 drinks, and maybe add a $20 fuel surcharge.

The one yesterday I only had sex with once last night, and the same four drink price applied.

Aloha!

Post: #38

^ I don't believe you.

Post: #39

If ur posting on here you can't really have much "status."

Post: #40

There are two reasons for buying drinks.

The first (and the main) reason is that it saves time, meaning you can either get more from her during the same period, or just put less effort. Basically Roosh's book seem to be more oriented for people who have a lot of free time and little money. For those of us who have limited time but have no problem spending $100 a night on drinks things are different. Let me share the rules I follow; I'd appreciate your feedback.

- If a girl directly asks to buy her a drink during the first five minutes of conversation, or if she asks to buy her a specific expensive drink, I'm not buying it (and in most cases wrap it up and move on as it makes little sense to continue with her).

- If a girl directly asks to buy her a drink after an hour of conversation which is going on, then it depends where I am. In America I'm typically not buying girls drinks unless she also happens to be a foreigner (I just calmly refuse and continue conversation as if nothing happened). In Europe this way the girl often checks whether you like her "more than a friend" and ready to make next step, or you're just entertaining yourself (or maybe you are gay), so in most cases I'm buying her ONE drink. Same as above, if she is asking for a second drink, I'm not buying it and wrapping it up. This is the second reason I do it.

- If a girl hints I may buy her a drink I make it clear I see her hints and ignore them.

- When I buy drinks, I never buy us the same drinks. Mine will always be different - typically more expensive than hers. Not only it adds to "my value is higher than yours" vibe, but it also serves as an invitation to try each other drinks using both straws, which is a step toward intimacy.

- After 45 minutes I can buy her or her group a drink or two on my own (only if she did NOT ask for it). Same as above, if I buy drinks for the group, I buy different drinks for the group and for me. I strongly advise to buy the same drink for the girl as for her group, as otherwise they may "try" her drink and the alcohol will go into the wrong place This seem to work better in U.S. than in Europe (I have seen girls actually refusing drinks in Europe, something which never happened in my short career in US).

- The major problem I face is drinking too much myself. Being Russian I can handle quite large amounts of alcohol without getting wasted, but at some point (typically 6-8 shots of tequila) my interest to keep the conversation with the girl typically goes south. Vodka + RedBull helps in this case, but only temporary - basically if you started drinking vodka-redbull, this is your drink for the whole night, and anything else has a good chance to get you drunk. What do you guys do in those cases?

Any feedback, especially U.S.-related (vast majority of my experience is in Europe) would be highly appreciated.

Post: #41

Question for the "I never ever under any circumstances buy a girl a drink" crowd:

If a beautiful girl is at your crib and its 2am, just you and her, and she wants a drink to loosen up, do you give her one? Or is that giving too much value?

Other question:

If two 21 year old girls just finished finals, they are at your crib, want to get drunk and crazy and want a drink off your vodka bottle. Do you deny them, because a pua who runs $795 bootcamps with eyeliner and bracelets who has swooped 3 girls in his life told you that is the "beta" move?

Post: #42

I think the only time when I would deny a girl a drink is when I just met her, and I get the vibe that her game is to milk guys for drinks. It doesn't happen a lot, but it happens. I think the last time I remember this happening to me was maybe 6-7 years ago. Otherwise, game on.

And like Kona said, its easy to pull subtle dominance moves after you buy her a drink to re-level the playing field, if you think the power game has been tilted to her favor.

However, it never really is, but women that you just have met will often assume that your like everyone else until you demonstrate otherwise. So, its annoying, but necessary to play the power demonstration game sometimes. Of course, you have to care to begin with, which isn't very dominant at all. So, its a wash.

Post: #43

Free drinks are always welcome. but don't you EVER think that you will pick the girl due to that. I wouldn't go anywhere with a guy because he pays random drinks to girls. To me this guy thinks he is saving money that he would spend with a hooker and has no game/communication skills.

Post: #44

It seemed like girls don't expect to be bought drinks in Brazil or Argentina. I never once had a girl ask. When I tried to buy an Argentine girl a drink I was dating it was almost like she thought it was weird.

Post: #45

If you have the money, buy people a drink. Why not? Buying drinks is part of bar socializing, and if you are interesting, you will get them back in spades. Plus it sets the tone that you buy drinks for people you think are interesting. Not just to pick up girls. I do a lot of networking in bars so i buy a lot of drinks, and honestly more for guys then girls, and i have yet to go out where ive spent more then i would have if i was sitting at the bar nursing a few (or in my case, quite a few) drinks while i watch the game.

I think its been mentioned before, but as long as you do it in such a way that it doesn't matter to you, and you dont give off the creepy vibe that i just bought her a drink so she owes me. At the same time, it should always be your idea. A girl asking you for a drink after 5 min of meeting is a whore who will not put out without massive effort or cash expenditure. If a chick is giving me that freeloader vibe, just do what chicks would do, think of a terrible lame excuse but stay in eye shot, maybe on the other side of the room.

Alcohol is a social lubricant, but it is not the end all and be all magic juice that AFCs make it out to be. Chances are pretty good that you would sleep with her with or without the alcohol, its just the time factor. It would just take a lot more time without. So use it like you would use KY Jelly, for those rare situations you want to try something totally new, or the chick is srsly fucked up.

Post: #46

Of the top I do either of these things:

1. Buy a drink after investment/compliance on her part if Im going up to get a drink myself, no big deal. (especially after we have been physical as I tend to go with 'i don't buy girls I haven't slept with drinks)...if it's before we've invested time but she has done compliance I'll let her know in some way that because she did something I have no problem buying her a drink... I'll say something like: "You know you did (whatever she did) so I'm gonna grab this drink." or "You know I am actually digging this conversation, I'm going to grab a drink, I'll get you something."

2. I have been using Roosh's response to a girl asking for a drink (it's a recent article on the site)

3. Go with a response I picked up from Xuma "Sure Ill buy you a drink but I get to choose the drink and we'll share." (which is almost a short hand version of Roosh's response) - Usually used when a girl first comes up or in the first initial bits of conversation

4. "You get the first round I'll get the second."

5. "(I don't pay for company baby love, but) tell you what if you get that guy over there to get us two drinks you can be my bar buddy, (besides he was totally making eyes at you)" () = optional

6. You- Tell me a secret about yourself that no one knows and maybe I'll buy you a drink"
Her - blah blah (give shit if she tells your a crap answer...you're looking for something juicy...you asked for a secret only she knows after all)
You - Alright I'll tell you what I'm not going to buy you a drink and unless you buy me one I am going to tell everyone at the bar you're dirty little secret. And then everyone will know.

ALSO:

I smoke so if a girl comes up and asks for a light or a cigarette say "Only if you introduce yourself first"

Post: #47

In Bang! Roosh wrote about when he buys drinks for women, "Sometimes the only difference between alpha and beta males is the intent, not the behavior. For example, they both can be seen paying for dates or holding a door open, but beta males do these things to please and impress women while alpha males do them because it makes them feel good and helps achieve their goals. I don't buy a drink for a woman on a date to please her. I buy it to loosen her up."

If you're just beginning and have zero game, Roosh's advise in Bang! of not buying girls drinks in the first five minutes you meet them is probably a good rule of thumb to start with. It keeps beginners from acting like a beta, and filters booze hounds milking AFCs for free drinks.

He has a target audience: "Everything you read on my blog is intended for beginner and intermediate gamesmen."
http://www.rooshv.com/kill-your-game-guru

and "I can teach beginners better than anyone else out there, and intermediate guys will get a lot of value out of me as well, but if you’re already consistently getting laid then I don’t know what to tell you."
http://www.rooshv.com/game-that-jumps

For people of G's level, he doesn't need newbie rules of thumb. His game surpassed newbie long ago.

Post: #48

(05-10-2010 07:08 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Here is a good rule of thumb:

If it benefits you to buy a girl a drink, do it.

Example, isolating a girl, a girl is cool and you want to have more time, getting her to loosen up, making yourself the G of the group etc.

If you are not sure, don't do it.

Example, a girl juicing you for drinks. (In my experience, this never really happens. I think this is a thing for the younger set .)

G manifestos post is on the money. the aim of buying her a drink is not to make her "like you" it's to loosen up her inhibitions (dont get her drunk though). most people drink alcohol to loosen up and unwind.

Post: #49

I don't like buying girls drinks when i feel I "have" to.

GManifesto is spot on!

When a girl within the first couple of minutes tries to get me to buy her one, i don't do it. Why? Just because she's a woman? In my experience...when doing this, nothing good comes out of it of giving it to her.

It's not about being a cheap bastard. Why buy a drink for a girl just because she asks?

Now if the girl has invested a good deal...then i'd buy her one since its for my own expense(for her to get looser).

Post: #50

I don't buy a girl a drink unless I believe I have her in the bag. Before that time, I will sometimes offer if she would like to join me for a shot of my choosing, my money my terms.