Post: #1

In America, girls don't really want a good man. They say they do but they don't. They want someone who makes their pussy wet. They want excitement, drama, tension, and someone that is a challenge. They love it when you disagree with them in a playful way.

But when you buy her a drink, you show that you are a good man. You put yourself out of contention and therefore do not get sex. But she will happily consume your drink.

In Eastern Europe, girls want a good man. They want to be treated like a woman, and you to be their traditional man.

When you buy an Eastern Euro girl a drink, you show a necessary quality they look for. She checks off an item on her list. You inch closer to sex.

So just ask yourself, does the girl you're talking to want a good man or does she want to get fucked like a dirty slut? If it's the latter then don't buy her anything when you first meet her. For casual dates it's fine to pay, just not early on.

Post: #2

(03-03-2012 03:00 PM)Roosh Wrote:  In Eastern Europe, girls want a good man. They want to be treated like a woman, and you to be their traditional man.

I think that's the key, Roosh. Eastern European women want to be treated like a real woman -- in the traditional sense. And they place a great value on masculinity.

American women say they value strong men (i.e. the man's man), but they are driven by underlying tendencies to be dominant because they were raised in a society that glamorizes the dominant female. It's everywhere in music, film, tv. And so they act out what they learned on tv and always believed to be the truth, when in reality it runs contrary to how they are genetically composed.

Simply put, American women are a man-made disaster.

Post: #3

Roosh is a true social scientist. This post carries more real insight than your typical humanities professor's entire life work.

It's funny, I doubt you could get many feminists here to agree to your point. But you have no reason to lie, to misinterpret reality to paint a certain picture. You just want to get laid. You're like a salesman who recognizes patterns among his different groups of customers, and you use it to your advantage to make more 'sales.' And in trying different approaches to getting laid, the flaws of American women have become grossly apparent.

Post: #4

(03-03-2012 03:23 PM)Smitty Wrote:  

(03-03-2012 03:00 PM)Roosh Wrote:  In Eastern Europe, girls want a good man. They want to be treated like a woman, and you to be their traditional man.

I think that's the key, Roosh. Eastern European women want to be treated like a real woman -- in the traditional sense. And they place a great value on masculinity.

American women say they value strong men (i.e. the man's man), but they are driven by underlying tendencies to be dominant because they were raised in a society that glamorizes the dominant female. It's everywhere in music, film, tv. And so they act out what they learned on tv and always believed to be the truth, when in reality it runs contrary to how they are genetically composed.

Simply put, American women are a man-made disaster.

Post: #5

(03-03-2012 03:00 PM)Roosh Wrote:  In America, girls don't really want a good man. They say they do but they don't. They want someone who makes their pussy wet. They want excitement, drama, tension, and someone that is a challenge. They love it when you disagree with them in a playful way.

But when you buy her a drink, you show that you are a good man. You put yourself out of contention and therefore do not get sex. But she will happily consume your drink.

In Eastern Europe, girls want a good man. They want to be treated like a woman, and you to be their traditional man.

When you buy an Eastern Euro girl a drink, you show a necessary quality they look for. She checks off an item on her list. You inch closer to sex.

So just ask yourself, does the girl you're talking to want a good man or does she want to get fucked like a dirty slut? If it's the latter then don't buy her anything when you first meet her. For casual dates it's fine to pay, just not early on.

Roosh , I don't want to Hijack the thread , but as I find this to be an interesting discussion , When it comes to Latin girls (specially brazilian ) I sense from my experience that it is more case one (US chicks) than case two. What is you input on that ?

Post: #6

Roosh, I absolutely agree with this notion. I slayed the Balkans this summer and realized that generally acting like a self absorbed dick to women was getting me nowhere. Well not nowhere, as I constantly had the most success with American and Canadian women in the Balkans, but the women of Eastern Europe were not nearly as receptive. It took me until the end of my trip to realize that offering a woman something of value and interacting in a humane way was a much more effective strategy. Inviting a EE woman into VIP, offering her a drink and a smoke, then proceeding to talk to her about interesting things in NYC and having an overall fulfilling conversation is the way to go in this part of the world.

However, I think with the internet and main-stream Western media inundating even these parts of the world,(I watched the Jersey Shore with Serbian subtitles in Belgrade this summer) these refreshing qualities will change.

Post: #7

(03-03-2012 05:25 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  However, I think with the internet and main-stream Western media inundating even these parts of the world,(I watched the Jersey Shore with Serbian subtitles in Belgrade this summer) these refreshing qualities will change.

These people have thousands upon thousands of years of cultural history to draw on, and in many cases they live in polities far older than the United States. A few subtitled episodes of Jersey Shore are not going to change this.

The negative traits we associate with American culture are the result of a unique, timely mixing of very deep, and very old cultural, historical, demographic and geographic factors. Unless you can find a way to precisely reproduce these stimuli over the course of several centuries, you will not succeed in reproducing the American woman.

Post: #8

(03-03-2012 05:47 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(03-03-2012 05:25 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  However, I think with the internet and main-stream Western media inundating even these parts of the world,(I watched the Jersey Shore with Serbian subtitles in Belgrade this summer) these refreshing qualities will change.

These people have thousands upon thousands of years of cultural history to draw on, and in many cases they live in polities far older than the United States. A few subtitled episodes of Jersey Shore are not going to change this.

The negative traits we associate with American culture are the result of a unique, timely mixing of very deep, and very old cultural, historical, demographic and geographic factors. Unless you can find a way to precisely reproduce these stimuli over the course of several centuries, you will not succeed in reproducing the American woman.

Fair point, and I hope the cultural norms that are endemic to them stay with them. However, nearly every woman I've interacted with from a non-Westernized culture has expressed this burning desire to come to New York, and America in general. I wonder how much of it is out of pure curiosity, and how much of it has been molded from the assumption of what American culture is.

Post: #9

(03-03-2012 05:47 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(03-03-2012 05:25 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  However, I think with the internet and main-stream Western media inundating even these parts of the world,(I watched the Jersey Shore with Serbian subtitles in Belgrade this summer) these refreshing qualities will change.

These people have thousands upon thousands of years of cultural history to draw on, and in many cases they live in polities far older than the United States. A few subtitled episodes of Jersey Shore are not going to change this.

The negative traits we associate with American culture are the result of a unique, timely mixing of very deep, and very old cultural, historical, demographic and geographic factors. Unless you can find a way to precisely reproduce these stimuli over the course of several centuries, you will not succeed in reproducing the American woman.

I strongly disagree Athlone. The world is changing fast. I cite the Middle East as an example. No one thought 10 years ago Saudi women would be allowed to vote. Now you see many more women over here unveiled. This region will be the last holdout, but it's shifting. Other parts of the world will move at a much more aggressive pace.

Television is a powerful thing to the ignorant. People believe what they see in the media as the gospel. If women in EE keep watching shows like Jersey Shore, they'll quickly adopt the mindset. Everything in moderation. Diversity is killing it. When Helga moves to the U.S., get ruined, then tells all her friends back in Russia how nice it is to own a man, his house, and bank account, why wouldn't they want the same things?

In 30 years relationship between the sexes will be ugly. The only way I see it shifting back is severe economic downturns. That's when women realize they can't provide for themselves, and turn back to the man to put food on the table.

Post: #10

(03-03-2012 05:22 PM)Mr.GM Wrote:  Roosh , I don't want to Hijack the thread , but as I find this to be an interesting discussion , When it comes to Latin girls (specially brazilian ) I sense from my experience that it is more case one (US chicks) than case two. What is you input on that ?

Thread hijacking on the way.

Mr.GM, do you actually buy girls drinks in SP?

My call is that we have no "buying drink" culture in Brazil. I don't see it happen. I've done it, but just to stand out.

Whereas in Hawaii I had girls asking me to buy drinks saying that otherwise they wouldn't keep talking to me. I had a friend of a girl I opened elegantly saying to me "Buy her a fucking drink, it's her fucking birthday".

But Brazil? Not in the culture.

My say.

Post: #11

(03-03-2012 09:35 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  In 30 years relationship between the sexes will be ugly. The only way I see it shifting back is severe economic downturns. That's when women realize they can't provide for themselves, and turn back to the man to put food on the table.

No, the more likely future is the human race just simply fizzles out. Look to Japan as a harbinger of the future. Women will become so difficult, demanding and neurotic that people will just stop reproducing. Beta males will just give up on women altogether and turn to video games and porn. Sex tourism will go through the roof. Expect plummeting birthrates anywhere this is happening.

Post: #12

(03-03-2012 09:45 PM)Amour Fou Wrote:  Whereas in Hawaii I had girls asking me to buy drinks saying that otherwise they wouldn't keep talking to me. I had a friend of a girl I opened elegantly saying to me "Buy her a fucking drink, it's her fucking birthday".

Post: #13

(03-03-2012 09:35 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  I strongly disagree Athlone. The world is changing fast. I cite the Middle East as an example. No one thought 10 years ago Saudi women would be allowed to vote. Now you see many more women over here unveiled. This region will be the last holdout, but it's shifting. Other parts of the world will move at a much more aggressive pace.

This is not disagreement, it is misinterpretation. This entire argument is based upon the assumption that "world change = everyone becomes exactly like Americans". This is the problem.

American women in general (it obviously can vary in different parts of the country) have a host of traits we consider very undesirable. Compared to others, they're relatively masculine, relatively large, relatively aggressive and have a pathological hatred of beta-males that few other women maintain.

As I said before, these traits are the direct result of many economic, demographic, cultural and geographic factors (all of which were VERY unique to the United States) mixing and matching over the course of several centuries.

Other women will watch the end product of all of this and pick up a few new tricks here and there. They might try to dance like Americans, text obsessively/use social media like Americans, adopt a few American phrases and other superficial things. In some places, they'll also vote, unveil, and come closer to more western norms of style/dress.

This does not equate to truly becoming an American. That would require them to actually live here, and become subject to the unique historical factors that have made this nation what it is and its people the way they are (allowing them to create things like Jersey shore in the first place). Without this, all you are going to have is a cheap, superficial and largely unsubstantial imitation that doesn't go much deeper than the skin.

Jersey Shore is not going to be enough to move every other population of women to precisely match American levels of gluttony (obesity), masculinity, agression and thug-worship. These are deeply inbred cultural factors that result from hundreds of years of development, and no subtitled television show can replace that.

Examples of what I mean are everywhere.

Look at Canada today. It is the closest thing to the United States that you can get, both figuratively and literally. No other nation or populace is quite as well integrated culturally, militarily, economically or historically with the USA as Canada is.

And yet, somehow, they're still distinct. The players on the forum have remarked on this time and time again-once you get outside of Toronto, you'll meet women who differ significantly from their American peers (usually favorably, judging from what they've said).
They're more open to cross-cultural relations, not as fat, and not as masculine. Go to French Canada (which is still spitting distance from the United States) and the difference becomes even more stark.

Sure, there are similarities. They dress the same, sound quite similar, watch similar tv shows, and are just as affluent.

However, when you examine them objectively, you are going to find that they are not American. They mimic us, but are not the same. You can see the same thing in others nations that have historically been closely linked to us (The Philippines, the United Kingdom, Mexico) and yet have still remained cultural distinct.

If Canadians can live right next to us and still maintain such clear distinction (nevermind the Mexicans, who despite being just as close are even more distant in their views on sexuality, femininity, family, etc), what on Earth makes us think that women in East Asia, South America, Europe or Africa are going to get any closer?

There are even examples of other cultures/populations living in America (ex: Mexican Americans) and remaining distinct in many significant cultural ways from other Americans who may have longer family histories here.

Bottomline: There is a hard limit to how American a distant foreigner can become via TV or other media without actually being American. That is the reality. Imitation =/= being.

Quote:Television is a powerful thing to the ignorant. People believe what they see in the media as the gospel. If women in EE keep watching shows like Jersey Shore, they'll quickly adopt the mindset.

No, they won't, because that mindset is unique to those who created the show and must be instilled in much more substantial ways. People can and will mimic the mindset. They'll act like The Situation and try to speak like Snooki. Maybe they'll even dress like them and fist pump in the clubs.

This is imitation. Actually BECOMING American would require them to go much further than that, and overcome thousands of years of historical development within their own societies in the process. They'd need to completely invert their own views on sexuality, on religion, on race relations, on work, on economics, on liberty, and on a host of other factors to come in line with Americans and properly understand/adopt the American "mindset".

In addition to this, their men will need to agree to become as emasculated as the average American beta male, and behave accordingly (let me know when E. European, Arab, Jamaican, Filipino and African men get on board with this-you'll probably see a blizzard in Barbados first).

As if this were not enough, they'll also need to totally match American levels of wealth and economic development, since American abundance is a major part of this nation's cultural history and manifests itself ubiquitously in our popular culture today. No poor country will be able to accurately copy America.

Bottomline: They'd need to become and think EXACLTY LIKE Americans in every conceivable fashion and on every conceivable topic without being subjected to any of the actual stimuli that made the United States and its citizens the way they are.

This is not possible. You give American media far too much credit, and foreigners (and their culture) far too little.

Quote:When Helga moves to the U.S., get ruined, then tells all her friends back in Russia how nice it is to own a man, his house, and bank account, why wouldn't they want the same things?

Wanting =/= being.

Quote:In 30 years relationship between the sexes will be ugly.

Not everywhere.

Post: #14

I'm finding that FSU women who've been to the West AT ALL, are IMMEDIATELY spoiled, in as little as three months, like many crack addicts report it took them 30 seconds to get hooked.

Most of the ones I've met that have been to Germany, etc, have or think they have a boyfriend there, and lose a lot of interest in being gamed/courted by expat Murkans like me. They view the real winners as those who stay in Feminist States (FS) and are willing to ( supposedly) bring the FSU chick to a FS where she can rape, pillage, and strut.

It's much like once a man sees FSU women, he realizes that Murkabeests merit little further attention. THat's what happened to me.

Post: #15

(03-04-2012 12:28 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I'm finding that FSU women who've been to the West AT ALL, are IMMEDIATELY spoiled, in as little as three months, like many crack addicts report it took them 30 seconds to get hooked.

This!

When I tell women I'm from NYC and I'm in some 3rd world nation, I try to balance the awesomeness of the city with the fact that I do not want you to visit, and the little paradise between your panties to become much like the vast majority in this city.

Post: #16

Athlone, you are basing on theory, not practical. I JUST landed in the UAE. Let me tell you how it works here in this region. In the GCC, people are entitled. Guys bitch about attitude in the U.S. and similar? Fuck. It's financial/religious/country aristocracy here. Indentured servitude is still practiced. Don't believe me? Look up K*wait 20 visa.

The attitude of the people here rub off very quickly to the OFW's. People come from dirt floors to here, where they now sleep on marble, think they are entitled. INSTANT. Relationship examples:
E. African/white American.....
white American/Arabic
SE Asia/Anyone

Take your pick. Pontificate all you want, but it comes down to human nature. And greed always wins. Women want more, and due to diversification, they ALL know it's out there. Most women are poised to strike, it's just a matter of opportunity.

Post: #17

Here's my hypothesis:

Girls ARE becoming more Americanized in the sense they are becoming more blackberrying, facebooking, flaking, cockteasing, high-maintenance attention whores who will divorce rape you seven years after marriage and/or get grotesquely fat (after which, YOU get fat). It has gone faster in Anglo-Germanic societies, but in any Western society it is happening. I agree it's incorrect to talk in terms of 100% Americanization, but where the UK and Denmark might be at levels near 90% (metaphorically), other cultures are going from perhaps 10% to 50% or even more. It might never reach the same level as the US (or DK, where it's bad), but it will get close. All this development is to the "apparent" benefit of women at the detriment of men, so the incentive to become more Americanized is greater for women world wide. For men, there is also a benefit, but maximizing their utility from this comes at a point not unlike what America was like in the 1950's. In that society, marriages lasted, sex was frequent and women and men had seperate and distinct but equally honorable roles. In today's society, roles are mixed, reversed or just plain fucked up. "Progress" now negatively impacts male utility directly, by emasculating them, and female utlity indirectly by emasculating men.

Once Americanization has gone beyond a certain level, you get what we have today. But I think a certain level is to the utilitarian benefit of men in general.

And FUCK Jersey Shore.

The real culprit is Sex and the City. Those women are orcs in disguise. That show is the source and catalyst for all this negative development. Fat Girl Jihad is misplaced - if we want a cure, and not just treat symptons, we have to have an antithesis to SATC.

Post: #18

I wouldn't worry about girls being ruined. Someone stated above that severe economic downturns would bring them back to reality. I'm pretty sure that the recession we've been in is the start of a permanent economic recession, and it is largely due to people having too much of what they want for too long.

Not that I'm a doom and gloomer, I think it is all a good thing. If it corrects women, then fantastic. If it means a corrected welfare state and more naturalistic global migration patterns, then wonderful. The only reason people should be scared is if they aren't trying to get ahead. Get ahead guys, the future looks bright.

Bit more on topic; I've never in my life bought a girl a drink. I might consider it if I go to EE to find some of the girls you're talking about. Hell, if there were women here who wanted to be women, I might be coerced. As it stands, I've never been thus far.

Post: #19

Brazil is an interesting place that is sort of in between Eastern Europe and USA, though I think it's leaning more towards USA. I wouldn't go around buying drinks for those high class garotas with iphones. A favela chick... why not.

Post: #20

A western girl views an attempt to buy her a drink as an attempt to buy her and ask sth for an exchange.It is a limitation of personal freedom.In slavic countries it works because girls expect a provider and you show signs of possible provider(taking care of the fun of girls).

For example when I buy drinks for a polish girls it is a sign that I can at least put my hand on her thighs and inside of them at least.When I buy ukrainian girls drinks I can flirt and touch all of them.

Generally I am not judgemental.If a girl does not want to be offered a present aka drink in order to give sth in exchange it is OK.The opposite is also OK.I am Balkan dominant so whatever happens will not disturb my frame.

For example if I can fuck girls without paying for drinks it is great.But I do not mind also if I pay for drinks so I can fuck her.In every case I win.

Post: #21

I'm from Belgrade, Serbia. Not exactly EE, but close enough. Been all over Balcans, WE and EE, so i can draw some conclusions based on experience.

Roosh is right. Generally speaking, buying girls drinks and not being an asshole will not hurt you. In fact, it will help you, especially in smaller/poorer cities. It's a cultural thing in many of the countries in the region, and flat out refusing to buy a drink for a girl who you are talking with is considered cheap, if not weird.

So you should buy if you invested a bit of time in a girl. She'll do the same for you from time to time, if she can afford it and if she likes you.

Post: #22

(03-03-2012 10:10 PM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

(03-03-2012 10:10 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  I had a friend of a girl I opened elegantly saying to me "Buy her a fucking drink, it's her fucking birthday".

Haha. I have a feeling that If I ever live in the US , I will endure a long,long period of cold streak or I'll get arrested after slapping a chick in her face.

Post: #23

American culture is not the main culprit, it's feminism and feminism can be present in countries whose cultures are quite resistant to American influences.

Offering girls to buy drinks is a beta move in most Western and Northern European countries. This is not because the girls have watched American TV series ...

Post: #24

In a society where women make as much as men, it makes no sense to buy girls drinks. its seen as supplicating behavior = beta.

Post: #25

Another day, another rant.

Blame feminism if you want, but the greatest enablers of all this shit is the 99.99% of weak men who condition these women to be the cunts they are. For example: I'm at a bar just talking sense with these two guys about women. One of them goes to me, "You know, I've never had such a real conversation about women this way." Strike one. A few minutes later, he feels obligated to tell the hottest chick in the bar that she's the hottest girl in the bar. Strike two.

I have to really wonder if by becoming better at gaming Western women whether we become worse at gaming non-Western women. The patterns, hostility, and garbage that we absorb from dealing with these bitches and their psycho-conflicted natures may become standard operating procedure after awhile. Some encounters from my long past leave much to be desired, but it is what it is. Charging it to the Game, but yeah... whatever.

To give you a gents just an update: A different girl from my social circle is a solid dime piece in her mid 20's. She's been flirting heavily on me since last October. Found out she got engaged in January. She's still coming at me hard. Wish I could say this was the first time. Unfortunately, I can't. And no, she's not off-limits Charging it to the Game. Some of you guys might judge me, but like I said, this happens way too often for me to notice, care, or take responsibility anymore.