Post: #76

(12-24-2012 02:03 AM)durangotang Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 11:14 PM)durangotang Wrote:  Sign the petition on the Whitehouse website to deport Piers Morgan.

Just a follow up, the Piers Morgan petition received over 25,000 signatures, although I doubt the president will responds as promised to any petition with over 25,000 signatures.

Don't get me wrong. That video really, really made me dislike the guy. I can't believe he had the audacity to sit there and call Pratt a "stupid man" just because he was losing the argument. It was really pitiful and pissed me off too.

But I can't help think it's a bit silly to attempt getting the guy kicked out of the country for blasting the 2nd amendment when the 1st amendment advocates freedom of speech. Seems pretty hypocritical.

I mean, he's not exactly a U.S. citizen, which is a bit annoying considering his attack, but if we're going to stand for freedom of speech and honoring the Bill of Rights, we kind of have to walk the walk. Petitioning to essentially censor the guy isn't a good example to set, in my opinion.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Rudyard Kipling

Post: #77

So now the gun lobby is trying to get Piers Morgan deported because he does not respect the second amendment. Nevermind that in promoting this course of action would violate the first amendment far more.

What happened to the talk about how he embarassed himself? Why care about him then. Seems like there's a lot of butt hurt people out there that feel genuinely threatened. That you would trade free speech for your precious guns is just insane.

(12-21-2012 05:30 PM)MSW2007 Wrote:  "If every Jewish and anti-nazi family in Germany had owned a Mauser rifle and twenty rounds of ammunition and the will to use it, Adolf Hitler would be a little-known footnote to the history of the Weimar Republic." (Aaron Zelman)

Seriously, what ignorant bullshit. This would have given the nazis an even more potent excuse to start purging jews. As if this ragtag militia could have stood up to panzers, legions of SA troops and the discipline and training of the german troops at the time.

Post: #78

(12-24-2012 04:47 AM)Vicious Wrote:  So now the gun lobby is trying to get Piers Morgan deported because he does not respect the second amendment. Nevermind that in promoting this course of action would violate the first amendment far more.

What happened to the talk about how he embarassed himself? Why care about him then. Seems like there's a lot of butt hurt people out there that feel genuinely threatened. That you would trade free speech for your precious guns is just insane.

(12-21-2012 05:30 PM)MSW2007 Wrote:  "If every Jewish and anti-nazi family in Germany had owned a Mauser rifle and twenty rounds of ammunition and the will to use it, Adolf Hitler would be a little-known footnote to the history of the Weimar Republic." (Aaron Zelman)

Seriously, what ignorant bullshit. This would have given the nazis an even more potent excuse to start purging jews. As if this ragtag militia could have stood up to panzers, legions of SA troops and the discipline and training of the german troops at the time.

Post: #79

(12-21-2012 04:30 PM)cibo Wrote:  Look I'm sure theres other factors at play but let me say this. In the 26 years in LA Ive only had my back pack stolen back in 9th grade and that was because I didn't take reasonable precautions.

In 3 years in london ive had my flat broken into, 3 delivery packages in 3 seperate flats stolen and nearly got into 4 fights My roommate from san fran who never had his shit stolen, this year, has had, in addition to the flat broken into, his iphone stolen from his pocket and his bike stolen by some fucker using a hack saw through the wooden fence.

I'm willing to bet you if there was the possibilty of being shot, you'd see less of this shit.

you just sound like you're unlucky, or weak. I've been in the UK for 28 years and been the victim of crime once when I was 17 which involved my phone being pinched after an older guy (crackhead) who i knew stunned me with a left hook. 3 weeks later I'd smashed his face in with a brick....yeh I guess violent crime does exist...

Post: #80

Wow an animated gif. How can I even dream to meet such superior polemic proficiency.

Post: #81

I generally agree with the pro-gun guys on here, but some Americans take it a bit too far, such as this off duty Michigan cop who became the laughing stock of Canada after this happened last summer in Calgary:

Post: #82

(12-24-2012 05:02 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 04:30 PM)cibo Wrote:  Look I'm sure theres other factors at play but let me say this. In the 26 years in LA Ive only had my back pack stolen back in 9th grade and that was because I didn't take reasonable precautions.

In 3 years in london ive had my flat broken into, 3 delivery packages in 3 seperate flats stolen and nearly got into 4 fights My roommate from san fran who never had his shit stolen, this year, has had, in addition to the flat broken into, his iphone stolen from his pocket and his bike stolen by some fucker using a hack saw through the wooden fence.

I'm willing to bet you if there was the possibilty of being shot, you'd see less of this shit.

you just sound like you're unlucky, or weak. I've been in the UK for 28 years and been the victim of crime once when I was 17 which involved my phone being pinched after an older guy (crackhead) who i knew stunned me with a left hook. 3 weeks later I'd smashed his face in with a brick....yeh I guess violent crime does exist...

I like the desire to categorize my experiences into an outlier event or a statement about my character. This is even after i posted a credible article on the FACT theres more violent crime in the UK than the US or South Africa. I can give you many more stories of my friends from 2nd story flats broken into, to some girl nearly had her iphone stolen in front of me but I grabbed it back before the thief had fully secured it, the cops telling my friend that they just stop random people with bikes who dont look like they own them since bike theft is so common and so forth.

And just to give you some background about me, all my near fights didnt end in one mainly because after the guys get in my face I calmly tell them Id gladly fight them but i let them know that ive done over 10 years of MMA and will break their face in.

"You think you can beat me, brav?"
"Yup" * wink

I was semi-hoping they'd take a swing since I could claim self-defense and then beat the shit of them. Unfortunately, no one took me up on my gracious offer.

And going back to guns. I actually think we should have better safety lock features on them since the main problem is that people are using other people's legally bought guns to commit crimes. Make it so every gun needs to have a key to open the safety. And if thats enough go with the Judge Dredd option of requiring finger scans to access the gun. It would also reduce the amount of people having their guns used on them in muggings.

Post: #83

(12-24-2012 06:22 AM)scotian Wrote:  I generally agree with the pro-gun guys on here, but some Americans take it a bit too far, such as this off duty Michigan cop who became the laughing stock of Canada after this happened last summer in Calgary:

I don't know, Scotian.

I know you didn't really have a stance you were trying to support with this video, but I don't know that it contributes a whole lot either. And the news story's a bit goofy.

For one thing, all they had to work with was the letter here.

I don't know Calgary, but if I wanted to play Devil's advocate (and trust me, that's all I'm doing here), I could wonder if the guys did approach him with aggression, maybe even intending to rob him using the "Have you been to stampede yet" as a way to break his defenses down for the approach. Maybe that simply doesn't happen in that part of the world, ever, but it doesn't sound much different than someone distracting you by asking for a light in the hood and then trying to mug you if you think about it.

Anyhow, I'm not saying this is what happened. What I am saying is that this video was based on a letter with no other word from the 3rd party that startled the guy. There's really no way to know what happened beyond the common assumption of people in that area that Americans are paranoid and ridiculous.

And if I'm not mistaken, it isn't out of the question for Americans to be a laughing stock up that direction.

But let's say the guy was completely off-base and got all wierded out for nothing. Which is probably the case. And being a guy with his family in a strange place, these things happen - though obviously he was a jackass for making such a point to follow up on it...(This alone makes him seem like an "extremist" of sorts.)

It would still be safe to say that it was one guy, so the one instance doesn't say a lot about Americans or the guns issue, in my opinion.

I watched a video the other day, a news story of an older guy in China that got pissed at some teens who littered in the park and so he pulled a knife on them. Just some regular old man, but a knife's a knife. The kids took off running and got the cops to come back and talk with the guy, who essentially said he just wanted to show them you can't disrespect people like that, etc.

But I'd hardly expect that means all Chinese people are like that old man and liable to get as extreme when teens piss them off - indeed, the simple fact that it was news indicates to me that it must be pretty far out of the norm.

Do some Americans take it a bit too far? Are some American a little off-kilter and paranoid? Sure. Some are. I'd venture that some Canadians probably are too. Some Germans. Some Frenchmen. Some Chinese.

Some is not a whole lot when you're referring to entire populations of people.

So, I just fail to see what a single incidence demonstrates about gun ownership in America. It only comes across as a news story that took one man's letter as an excuse to once again compare Canadians with Americans and show how silly we all are, to be 100% honest.

Not exactly ground-breaking investigative journalism, and not exactly fair either.

Again, I know you don't really have a dog in this fight and are pro-gun, as you said, but I just thought it warranted another perspective regardless.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Rudyard Kipling

Post: #84

(12-24-2012 04:47 AM)Vicious Wrote:  So now the gun lobby is trying to get Piers Morgan deported because he does not respect the second amendment. Nevermind that in promoting this course of action would violate the first amendment far more.

What happened to the talk about how he embarassed himself? Why care about him then. Seems like there's a lot of butt hurt people out there that feel genuinely threatened. That you would trade free speech for your precious guns is just insane.

(12-21-2012 05:30 PM)MSW2007 Wrote:  "If every Jewish and anti-nazi family in Germany had owned a Mauser rifle and twenty rounds of ammunition and the will to use it, Adolf Hitler would be a little-known footnote to the history of the Weimar Republic." (Aaron Zelman)

Seriously, what ignorant bullshit. This would have given the nazis an even more potent excuse to start purging jews. As if this ragtag militia could have stood up to panzers, legions of SA troops and the discipline and training of the german troops at the time.

A ragtag guerrilla army of 210,000 armed Jews stand a much better chance of survival than the same number of unarmed Jews. They could never stand toe to toe with the German army, that is for sure. However, they could do as the Vietcong, Taliban, and other guerrilla forces have done throughout history. They could have been a serious thorn in the Germans side. It is much more difficult to round up and slaughter 210,000 armed people fighting for their lives, and the lives of their loved ones, than it is 210,000 unarmed people. Didn't you guys watch Red Dawn growing up in Europe? Joking aside, a large and motivated guerrilla force is much more formidable than a large and defenseless group of civilians.

Maybe it is because I am from America, and you are from Sweden, but I would rather die fighting my enemy with a gun in my hand, than be slaughtered in a concentration camp without one. I still might lose, but I won't go down without a fight, no matter how futile the attempt may be.

Post: #85

(12-24-2012 07:00 AM)cibo Wrote:  And going back to guns. I actually think we should have better safety lock features on them since the main problem is that people are using other people's legally bought guns to commit crimes. Make it so every gun needs to have a key to open the safety. And if thats enough go with the Judge Dredd option of requiring finger scans to access the gun. It would also reduce the amount of people having their guns used on them in muggings.

So every gun needs to have a key to open the safety???

You might as well disassemble the gun and spread the pieces around your backyard because that's about how useful it would then be in a real self-defense situation. In the time it took someone to close the gap across a room with a blade in their hand, let alone a gun, you'd still be thinking about where your key was.

Most concealeds are quite safe the way they are and can be packed on your person, with a bullet in the chamber, and no worry of it going off. If you pull it out and pop one off at someone, it's going to be because you meant to.

No need for additional locks and safety features beyond what they've already got.

For example, the Lanza lady made a huge mistake by allegedly leaving her guns out in the open with an unstable person living in the house, who for some strange reason she also taught to use said guns. Hell, he might have even figured out how to get into her safe - he's been referred to as a genius several times.

Point is, there probably shouldn't have been any there to begin with, and if they were going to be there, they should have been secured. But there was nothing about those guns that needed to be improved or made safer that would have altered the outcome. The lady made a huge mistake. Period.

Now, if only people were allowed to carry concealeds on school grounds, maybe someone could have pulled their piece and the kid would have shot himself before taking too many lives, as he did as soon as the first police officer tried to engage him.

Additional safety features on guns won't make them much safer; it'll simply render them obsolete for most self-defense scenarios.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Rudyard Kipling

Post: #86

(12-24-2012 07:00 AM)cibo Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 05:02 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 04:30 PM)cibo Wrote:  Look I'm sure theres other factors at play but let me say this. In the 26 years in LA Ive only had my back pack stolen back in 9th grade and that was because I didn't take reasonable precautions.

In 3 years in london ive had my flat broken into, 3 delivery packages in 3 seperate flats stolen and nearly got into 4 fights My roommate from san fran who never had his shit stolen, this year, has had, in addition to the flat broken into, his iphone stolen from his pocket and his bike stolen by some fucker using a hack saw through the wooden fence.

I'm willing to bet you if there was the possibilty of being shot, you'd see less of this shit.

you just sound like you're unlucky, or weak. I've been in the UK for 28 years and been the victim of crime once when I was 17 which involved my phone being pinched after an older guy (crackhead) who i knew stunned me with a left hook. 3 weeks later I'd smashed his face in with a brick....yeh I guess violent crime does exist...

This is even after i posted a credible article on the FACT theres more violent crime in the UK than the US or South Africa..

would have helped if you actually read the article rather than the sensationalist right wing headline provided by the Daily Mail

Quote:In Britain, an affray is considered a violent crime, while in other countries it will only be logged if a person is physically injured.

There are also degrees of violence. While the UK ranks above South Africa for all violent crime, South Africans suffer more than 20,000 murders each year - compared with Britain's 921 in 2007.

Population of South Africa - 51 million, UK - 60 million.

Post: #87

(12-24-2012 07:48 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 07:00 AM)cibo Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 05:02 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 04:30 PM)cibo Wrote:  Look I'm sure theres other factors at play but let me say this. In the 26 years in LA Ive only had my back pack stolen back in 9th grade and that was because I didn't take reasonable precautions.

In 3 years in london ive had my flat broken into, 3 delivery packages in 3 seperate flats stolen and nearly got into 4 fights My roommate from san fran who never had his shit stolen, this year, has had, in addition to the flat broken into, his iphone stolen from his pocket and his bike stolen by some fucker using a hack saw through the wooden fence.

I'm willing to bet you if there was the possibilty of being shot, you'd see less of this shit.

you just sound like you're unlucky, or weak. I've been in the UK for 28 years and been the victim of crime once when I was 17 which involved my phone being pinched after an older guy (crackhead) who i knew stunned me with a left hook. 3 weeks later I'd smashed his face in with a brick....yeh I guess violent crime does exist...

This is even after i posted a credible article on the FACT theres more violent crime in the UK than the US or South Africa..

would have helped if you actually read the article rather than the sensationalist right wing headline provided by the Daily Mail

Quote:In Britain, an affray is considered a violent crime, while in other countries it will only be logged if a person is physically injured.

There are also degrees of violence. While the UK ranks above South Africa for all violent crime, South Africans suffer more than 20,000 murders each year - compared with Britain's 921 in 2007.

Population of South Africa - 51 million, UK - 60 million.

Im well aware of the definition. I know in murders the US and South Africa are way ahead. And if you read my posts, i said if we expand the definition beyond murder, the UK has a shitload of violent crime. I'm less concerned about the ranking and more about the counter-factual nature of the case which shows that removing guns does not necessarily decrease crime so please stay within the scope of that argument. We can nit pick the bean-counting bits but it doesnt change the overall point.

Also while murder is worse than getting your shit stolen or beaten up, murder is much rarer and less likely to affect your day to day life. I'm looking at crime being comprised of 1) quantity and 2) severity. You can't just say "theres no murder therefore everything is super." You have to look at the overall crime level here and the impact on daily life. I believe guns reduce the overall amount of crime but increases the severity when it does occur. On balance, i think we come out ahead though.

Side note: Whats up with the general shitty tone? Being dramatic is what girls do.

Post: #88

(12-24-2012 07:42 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 07:00 AM)cibo Wrote:  And going back to guns. I actually think we should have better safety lock features on them since the main problem is that people are using other people's legally bought guns to commit crimes. Make it so every gun needs to have a key to open the safety. And if thats enough go with the Judge Dredd option of requiring finger scans to access the gun. It would also reduce the amount of people having their guns used on them in muggings.

So every gun needs to have a key to open the safety???

You might as well disassemble the gun and spread the pieces around your backyard because that's about how useful it would then be in a real self-defense situation. In the time it took someone to close the gap across a room with a blade in their hand, let alone a gun, you'd still be thinking about where your key was.

I believe we have a different view of how this is working. Im thinking of this as more like a pin that enables the safety spring. A key would enable you to flip the safety. You wouldnt need to reunlock the safety every time, just once. When you remove the key, it would default to locked. And as part of the design the key shouldnt be able to be removed during a confrontation which i would guess would invalidate my statement about your gun not being used against you in muggings. But, i guess thats a trade off.

Anyway, my suggestion really wouldnt change the behaviour of the gun as it is used since some people will never take the key out. But adding just one level of security, even if its minor will significantly reduce the chances of an event happening. 10% x 10% = 1%. VS 10% x 10% x 10%= 0.1%

Post: #89

(12-24-2012 07:33 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Maybe it is because I am from America, and you are from Sweden, but I would rather die fighting my enemy with a gun in my hand, than be slaughtered in a concentration camp without one. I still might lose, but I won't go down without a fight, no matter how futile the attempt may be.

It has nothing to do with my nationality. The extent of the Nazis endlösung (final solution) wasn't known until 1945 when Allied troops advanced into Poland and Germany. Before then Jews had even willingly went into ghettos assigned for them.

While your whole die-with-your-boots attitude is commendable it is a position picked from hindsight. The knowledge you possess was nowhere near available to people back in the thirties.

Look, I want to point out didn't even touch on gun control in my post previously. I actually only commented where the discussion tangented constitutional law and (military) history. I 've lived in the US, I'm deeply familiar with its history and what has shaped it. I am a huge fan of the bill of rights. I dare say I am more protective of this fine document as a whole than many Americans (as evidenced in this thread many want to cherry pick the parts they like).

And merry Christmas everyone! I'm fucking stuffed.

Post: #90

(12-24-2012 03:55 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 02:03 AM)durangotang Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 11:14 PM)durangotang Wrote:  Sign the petition on the Whitehouse website to deport Piers Morgan.

Just a follow up, the Piers Morgan petition received over 25,000 signatures, although I doubt the president will responds as promised to any petition with over 25,000 signatures.

Don't get me wrong. That video really, really made me dislike the guy. I can't believe he had the audacity to sit there and call Pratt a "stupid man" just because he was losing the argument. It was really pitiful and pissed me off too.

But I can't help think it's a bit silly to attempt getting the guy kicked out of the country for blasting the 2nd amendment when the 1st amendment advocates freedom of speech. Seems pretty hypocritical.

I mean, he's not exactly a U.S. citizen, which is a bit annoying considering his attack, but if we're going to stand for freedom of speech and honoring the Bill of Rights, we kind of have to walk the walk. Petitioning to essentially censor the guy isn't a good example to set, in my opinion.

I am in favor of protecting the first amendment right of American citizens, however in this case we have a foreign born non-citizen openly advocating the subversion of our second amendment right to bear arms. If he were American, we would have to tolerate his freedom of speech. Since he is British, this counts as sedition. Our elected officials, who are sworn to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States" should not waste any time deporting him.

Post: #91

(12-21-2012 04:30 PM)cibo Wrote:  FACT theres more violent crime in the UK than the US or South Africa. I can give you many more stories of my friends from 2nd story flats broken into, to some girl nearly had her iphone stolen in front of me but I grabbed it back before the thief had fully secured it

As someone else mentioned, in the US stealing a cell phone is a petty theft, not a violent crime.

Anyway I can relate to your UK cell phone theft as I had 2 pick pocket attempts on my Galaxy SII in Barcelona over the summer. The first I caught and stopped, the second was by a 15 yr old at 4am and he ran through bushes and I lost him.

But what would've a gun done in that situation? No rational person is gonna shoot at a kid over a cell phone. Crime happens, and sometimes you gotta live with it.

Post: #92

(12-24-2012 04:18 PM)durangotang Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 03:55 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 02:03 AM)durangotang Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 11:14 PM)durangotang Wrote:  Sign the petition on the Whitehouse website to deport Piers Morgan.

Just a follow up, the Piers Morgan petition received over 25,000 signatures, although I doubt the president will responds as promised to any petition with over 25,000 signatures.

Don't get me wrong. That video really, really made me dislike the guy. I can't believe he had the audacity to sit there and call Pratt a "stupid man" just because he was losing the argument. It was really pitiful and pissed me off too.

But I can't help think it's a bit silly to attempt getting the guy kicked out of the country for blasting the 2nd amendment when the 1st amendment advocates freedom of speech. Seems pretty hypocritical.

I mean, he's not exactly a U.S. citizen, which is a bit annoying considering his attack, but if we're going to stand for freedom of speech and honoring the Bill of Rights, we kind of have to walk the walk. Petitioning to essentially censor the guy isn't a good example to set, in my opinion.

I am in favor of protecting the first amendment right of American citizens, however in this case we have a foreign born non-citizen openly advocating the subversion of our second amendment right to bear arms. If he were American, we would have to tolerate his freedom of speech. Since he is British, this counts as sedition. Our elected officials, who are sworn to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States" should not waste any time deporting him.

Yeah. I don't think any country would be happy if we went there, went on tv and started telling them to change laws. Don't even gotta mention how citizens would feel if an American was talking shit like Piers and calling them stupid.

Post: #93

(12-24-2012 05:02 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 04:30 PM)cibo Wrote:  Look I'm sure theres other factors at play but let me say this. In the 26 years in LA Ive only had my back pack stolen back in 9th grade and that was because I didn't take reasonable precautions.

In 3 years in london ive had my flat broken into, 3 delivery packages in 3 seperate flats stolen and nearly got into 4 fights My roommate from san fran who never had his shit stolen, this year, has had, in addition to the flat broken into, his iphone stolen from his pocket and his bike stolen by some fucker using a hack saw through the wooden fence.

I'm willing to bet you if there was the possibilty of being shot, you'd see less of this shit.

you just sound like you're unlucky, or weak. I've been in the UK for 28 years and been the victim of crime once when I was 17 which involved my phone being pinched after an older guy (crackhead) who i knew stunned me with a left hook. 3 weeks later I'd smashed his face in with a brick....yeh I guess violent crime does exist...

Maybe because the UK is the country with the most cctv cameras...

Post: #94

(12-24-2012 04:09 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 07:33 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Maybe it is because I am from America, and you are from Sweden, but I would rather die fighting my enemy with a gun in my hand, than be slaughtered in a concentration camp without one. I still might lose, but I won't go down without a fight, no matter how futile the attempt may be.

It has nothing to do with my nationality. The extent of the Nazis endlösung (final solution) wasn't known until 1945 when Allied troops advanced into Poland and Germany. Before then Jews had even willingly went into ghettos assigned for them.

While your whole die-with-your-boots attitude is commendable it is a position picked from hindsight. The knowledge you possess was nowhere near available to people back in the thirties.

Look, I want to point out didn't even touch on gun control in my post previously. I actually only commented where the discussion tangented constitutional law and (military) history. I 've lived in the US, I'm deeply familiar with its history and what has shaped it. I am a huge fan of the bill of rights. I dare say I am more protective of this fine document as a whole than many Americans (as evidenced in this thread many want to cherry pick the parts they like).

And merry Christmas everyone! I'm fucking stuffed.

I definitely think Piers Morgan should be allowed to say whatever he likes. I am as big of a supporter of freedom of speech as I am the right to bare arms. I think gun control, or limiting anyone's freedom of speech, are both slippery slopes to be avoid.

Post: #95

The simple question that should be asked is why the US is a slaughterhouse compared to the rest of the western world in terms of homicides, period.

Are Europeans so safe because everyone carries a weapon on them all the time ? Or could it be that it's because the population is not as armed to the teeth as Americans are ?

I found the British tv host to be too emotional and thus unprofessional but that doesn't alter my position in this debate.

Post: #96

There is no freedom of speech in Britain. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/2...-c-w-cooke

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/312...-c-w-cooke

Post: #97

(12-24-2012 06:22 AM)scotian Wrote:  I generally agree with the pro-gun guys on here, but some Americans take it a bit too far, such as this off duty Michigan cop who became the laughing stock of Canada after this happened last summer in Calgary:

That whole thing is stupid lol. Must of been a slow day in friendly ol' Canada if they had to do a report on that. I have a feeling Canadians talk about Americans a lot more than we do about them. I've heard a lot of them have a secret boner for us anyways Again, so many people in other countries can't seem to keep our names out of their mouth while no one here even thinks about them.

Post: #98

(12-24-2012 04:18 PM)durangotang Wrote:  I am in favor of protecting the first amendment right of American citizens, however in this case we have a foreign born non-citizen openly advocating the subversion of our second amendment right to bear arms. If he were American, we would have to tolerate his freedom of speech. Since he is British, this counts as sedition. Our elected officials, who are sworn to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States" should not waste any time deporting him.

For someone who's allegedly such a fan of the constitution your familiarity with it is obviously selective. With the exception of the right to vote and the right to run for federal office, citizens and non-citizens are afforded the same basic rights.

If the above wasn't true then everyone's rights would be limited as a result. A citizen could have his conversations and views recorded if he were to have it with a non-citizen as this person would not be afforded the same rights. Now this is unthinkable in a country under rule of law. This is also why gun kooks anger me with their short-sightedness. Because they all have their lace thongs in a bundle over Piers Morgan they are perfectly willing to compromise their more basic rights. The only reason somebody would do that is not because they love and respect the magnificent document that is the Constitution, but because they are a gun kook. All the other talk is just half-assed attempts to justify their arbitrary special interests.

Post: #99

(12-24-2012 11:49 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 04:18 PM)durangotang Wrote:  I am in favor of protecting the first amendment right of American citizens, however in this case we have a foreign born non-citizen openly advocating the subversion of our second amendment right to bear arms. If he were American, we would have to tolerate his freedom of speech. Since he is British, this counts as sedition. Our elected officials, who are sworn to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States" should not waste any time deporting him.

For someone who's allegedly such a fan of the constitution your familiarity with it is obviously selective. With the exception of the right to vote and the right to run for federal office, citizens and non-citizens are afforded the same basic rights.

If the above wasn't true then everyone's rights would be limited as a result. A citizen could have his conversations and views recorded if he were to have it with a non-citizen as this person would not be afforded the same rights. Now this is unthinkable in a country under rule of law. This is also why gun kooks anger me with their short-sightedness. Because they all have their lace thongs in a bundle over Piers Morgan they are perfectly willing to compromise their more basic rights. The only reason somebody would do that is not because they love and respect the magnificent document that is the Constitution, but because they are a gun kook. All the other talk is just half-assed attempts to justify their arbitrary special interests.

We also have a history of kicking the shit out of lippy Brits and running their asses back across the pond. Don't see why Pies is any different.

Post: #100

(12-24-2012 11:35 PM)houston Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 06:22 AM)scotian Wrote:  I generally agree with the pro-gun guys on here, but some Americans take it a bit too far, such as this off duty Michigan cop who became the laughing stock of Canada after this happened last summer in Calgary:

That whole thing is stupid lol. Must of been a slow day in friendly ol' Canada if they had to do a report on that. I have a feeling Canadians talk about Americans a lot more than we do about them. I've heard a lot of them have a secret boner for us anyways Again, so many people in other countries can't seem to keep our names out of their mouth while no one here even thinks about them.

You're right about that one Houston, us Canadians do talk a lot more about you guys then you do of us, its a bit of an inferiority complex and whenever there's a news story about some controversial such as this one, it gets blown up and the story is usually about how Canadians are somehow morally superior to Americans.

It reminds me of when Rosie O'Donnell chartered a cruise ship full of 2000 homosexuals and they all sailed to my city Halifax and some were even married there because Canada is so progressive and allows gay marriage: http://www.xtra.ca/public/viewstory.aspx...PLATE_ID=2

I still think that cop was an idiot for for going to a foreign country where he knows that gun control is strict, then bitching to the media that as a visitor, he wasn't able to have a gun on him while walking in an urban park. I don't know what he was trying to accomplish by writing the letter, maybe he was trying to start a debate among Canadians with regards to our gun laws. Actually our gun laws were recently loosened when our long gun registry was cancelled, but you won`t see people carrying concealed pistols anytime soon north of the border, something that I think most of us are okay with.