Post: #26

(10-24-2012 07:16 AM)Marcellus Wrote:  This is almost exactly what I have been observing. People here fail to see the reality of things.

- there are only a few alpha's.
- alpha's have a harem of the top females (not mentioned in the article)
- alpha's power comes from social dominance
- he has a circle of top-beta's, also with fine chicks
- toptierfemales approach members of this group. Alpha's get the finest chicks.
-the low-beta's (most males) get lowranking chicks though their lowerranking social circles.

I would be very surprised if anybody on this forum would be alpha or beta.

This is also the reason why omega's who start "learning game" in suburban environments tends to fail: the natural social structure is still in place. You can only succeed if you live in places with lots of people (big cities like london) or when you travel around. When you succeed, you get into pickup. Pickup only work on the lowerchicks who have the lowerbetas and wants something different (hypergamy). The more you travel around or the more dense your city the more success in pickup.

Ever wondered why you never see hot chicks in clubs? Because they are in their social circle.

How many times do you see pics of player's with really hot chicks? Never.

The author of this article is right in defining the "real alpha's", but he fails in pinpointing the exact reasons.

I call bullshit.

Post: #27

It's a good article from a theoretical standpoint, but pretty useless in practice.

Nothing he wrote is going to help anyone get laid.

Pretty much just an exercise in mental masturbation.

Post: #28

The opposite of a big baller troll. Interesting...

Post: #29

[quote='Roosh' pid='293443' dateline='1351094366']
The opposite of a big baller troll. Interesting...
[/quote
No shit. Welcome to the day's of the weak. A crying shame.

Post: #30

This is not a bad article, and I really like the Alpha, Beta, Omega, Zeta (ABOZ) classification system. However, there are some very significant inaccuracies in the article:

1. Most Alphas have a high notch count. Maybe some of them don't and really are faithful to their spouses for some reason (strong moral values, religious upbringing, etc.), but most do bang other women a lot, often times much lower ranking than their "main". It's just a nature of men, the call of the strange, the need for variety, perhaps stronger in some than others. There are tons of examples of this; Tiger Woods, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Berlusconi,... This has been going since the dawn of time - see the stereotypical medieval king or sultan with a harem of concubines. For the very high ranking alphas this has been traditionally quietly tolerated by their "main" and it was socially perfectly acceptable and even expected. It's somewhat harder in this regard for Alphas these days. Also Alphas do have enemies, if for nothing else than simple envy. I would even say they have more enemies than omegas due to their higher visibility (but they have more allies as well).

2. His criticism of the Omega class is way too harsh. The way I see the Omega is somebody who took the red pill in multiple aspects of the society. It doesn't automatically imply criminal activity or lower moral code (like seeping with friends wife). Alpha is somebody who wins the game of life while following the rule of the society, while successful Omega wins by bending, or reinventing them. This ABOZ classification has little to do with moral conduct - you can find scumbags and good men in every category. The universally adored and respected leader in the community is as much alpha as a ruthless dictator. Yes, the bad boy meth dealing biker or for-hire assassin could be omega, but so could be the perpetually vacationing digital nomad, the charming starving artist, the location independent 4 hour workweek entrepreneur, the traveling PUA, the enfant terrible playboy writer... The main distinction of Omega is that he doesn't like to play by the conventional societal rules, he tries to find a lifestyle that will make him happy, it's about the freedom to do what you want with your time. Omega is the rogue, the modern vagabond, the nonconformist and there has never been a better time in history to be one than right now. Modern technology and transportation makes it easy and affordable to work while traveling. The increasingly unappealing blue pill life with few winners (the Alphas) but many more losers (Betas and especially Zetas) makes the omega lifestyle ever so attractive. Even Alphas might envy the successful Omega's freedom as he faces divorce from his wife who is leaving him because he was publicly caught cheating or "doesn't have time for her" since he had to work 80 hrs a week to get where he is.

The typical RVF member would definitely fit this definition of Omega. Be proud to be Omega!

Post: #31

(10-24-2012 10:59 AM)Roosh Wrote:  The opposite of a big baller troll. Interesting...

Do you remember an old commenter from the early days of Roissy called "David Alexander"?

David Alexander would say he was a hopeless beta and could only find solance in masturbation to porn models. He would claim that any woman who didn't look like a porn model could not turn him on. He said he was 5'6'', black, and ugly, and that there was no point in him trying to learn game because it would be impossible for him to get laid.

Basically, every one of David Alexander's posts were designed to incite pity for him. He was one of the few commenters ever banned from Roissy's site even though he did not flame or attack anyone. Roissy simply could not take his bullshit after awhile.


I think -abe-, if anything, might be a David Alexander troll, but don't ban him just yet. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt or at least let him entertain us for a few dozen more posts.

Post: #32

PUAs are fucking gay, but I have a kind of respect for the guys who first started the idea that you can learn skills with women and don't need natural talent alone.

As for the guy's view on alpha/beta/etc-a he's just reframed some vague, hard to define concepts related to masculinity in order to fit his world-view, which what I gather having read his blog occasionally is MRA stuff mixed with social conservatism.

To say that male promiscuity is "sexual deviance" is ridiculous. As is the idea that you can't form strong bonds with women if you are sleeping with more than one of them.

Post: #33

How much of this alpha, beta, delta, omega, zeta, theoretical bullshit actually helps anybody get laid?

What happened to just getting your ass out there approaching, breaking through plateaus, working hard, and becoming the best man you can be?

Not sure if you are or not, but I will say this. It's your own fault. If you are not getting laid it's your fault. If you aren't achieving what you want, it's your own fault, end of story.

If the pity guys spent 1/10 of time actually going out and talking to girls, instead of reading articles like this on the internet they'd be well on their way.

If a guy like me who used to shake and sweat in the presence of a girl when I was younger can fill up entire weeks with meetups and banging regs and fresh, then other guys can do it too.

If a guy like me who used to be so skinny it looked like I was born in an third world nation can work out and get to the point where I'm complimented on my body so can you.

If a guy like me who would be crushed for months after a rejection, can reach a point where it seriously doesn't bother me in the least, so can someone else.

Get out there and put in the work, the complaining, the pity, and everything else are just excuses.

Post: #34

(10-24-2012 02:08 PM)SVK Wrote:  ...deleted previous essay...

The typical RVF member would definitely fit this definition of Omega. Be proud to be Omega!

^^^ I agree, and thats why I liked this article. Its written by someone who plays within the rules and choses to label an Omega/deviant/criminal/cheater as someone who steps outside them. This guy's "Omega" doesn't fit the model that the author has in his head for success so he trashes it. I Noticed he selected some pretty traditional, middle class examples for "Alpha" aka the alpha of your cul de sac. Under his definition a guy like 50 cent or Jay Z are just putting on a smoke and mirror show and have no power over other men and only short term power over women.

Its people who have the attitudes of the author that make it easier to start a new venture for yourself or hijack a hamster for your own ends. They keep the competition low. They use guilt and shame to try to pull their peers back into line if it looks like they are going to break the rules and jump ahead in 'rank' or get a girl thats above their natural 'sex pair ranking'.

So thanks author, thank you for being the 'fat jealous friend' of society who uses shame to cockblock anyone who might want to be successful but wasn't a quarterback in high school. It just makes it easier for me.

Post: #35

(10-23-2012 08:57 PM)-abe- Wrote:  This article lays out definitions for these terms and label's PUAs as omegas. I think his definition of "Alpha" is excellent.

And I think you need the get the fuck out of your mom's basement and stop wasting your life reading some other loser write stupid blog posts about other people getting pussy. It's one thing to mine this forum for useful information or to read things that are going to lead you to finding some value in your life, but what could you possibly take away from this nonsense.

I spend some time on here and other blogs batting useless ideas back and forth with people for my own amusement, but I have a job, a girl, a home, steady access to strange. If you have none of that stuff, then fixing that needs to be your number one priority.

Fuck what some manosphere jackass wants to define as alpha. This shit reads like some fucking geek creating classes of characters for his next Dungeons and Dragons game. And that's not to hate on D&D. Again, it's one thing to have diversions in your life, but when those diversions take the place of actual accomplishment something has gone wrong.

Turn of your computer and go out into the real world. Stop trying to master the world by reading blog posts. Go out into it. Learn how to have successful interactions with real people. Get your dick wet.

That should be the most important thing in your life right now: getting laid. Some might tell you to fuck a pro or a fat chick. Assuming you're not horribly deformed or morbidly obese, you shouldn't have to resort to that. Avoid known sluts as well; for guys without solid game they are actually much harder to bang. Find a chubby girl or one with a decent body and a less-than-desirable facial situation. There are plenty of women out there who will let you penetrate them in under 2 or 3 face-to-face encounters. You just have to get used to talking to them and not coming across like a giant herb. It's not as hard as it may seem.

Post: #36

Damn.

SVK, Neo and j r all throwing down cold, hard truth one after the other here.

I feel like I just ran through a gauntlet of player wisdom.

This article may have been useless but the thread brought out some good responses.

Post: #37

(10-24-2012 02:50 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(10-24-2012 10:59 AM)Roosh Wrote:  The opposite of a big baller troll. Interesting...

Do you remember an old commenter from the early days of Roissy called "David Alexander"?

David Alexander would say he was a hopeless beta and could only find solance in masturbation to porn models.

And trains. That dude had some weird train obsession. He probably fantasized about having a wife that other dudes ran trains on.

Post: #38

That's a nice theory, with one flaw: most guys here with game are respected by friends and we like to help them get laid, especially if they ask (at least I am). We even put our time to give detailed advice to newbies on the forum if they ask. Does that make us alphega?

EDIT: we also respect the rule "bros before hoes", and would never betray a friend/wing just to get pussy, unless that friend breaks the rule by cockblocking/AMOGing/whatever, and we never take the side of a girl who disrespects him, no matter how hot she is.

Post: #39

What mental is saying is nice, but the original article's theory doesn't even need to be refuted that way - it would still fail even if we were all vile people who backstabbed our friends and couldn't keep women after stealing them.

Morals and kindness never enter the equation. Either you're attractive to women (Alpha), or you're not (Beta). That's it. Sure, you could have an Alpha who is good and kind, and an Alpha who is horrible and cruel, but that has nothing to do with sexual attractiveness.

Post: #40

What about the sigma male? I would think that most rooshers would tend to identify more with the sigma than the alpha. What the hell is omega?

Post: #41

i hate these labels but ironically i agree with the overall break down. especially the take on the alpha guy:

Quote:The “true” Alpha – the high-school football star who’s screwing the prom queen - doesn’t need to be sexually promiscuous in order to be social proofed. He is social proofed already by dating the best chick.

[...]

In other words, the “real Alpha” doesn’t need to screw dozens of chicks to have social proofing. He’s already got it by banging the hottest chick, which every other girl wishes she could be. Should he and the prom queen split, there will be a plethora of women from the lowest sexual rank to the highest trying to achieve status by being the prom queen’s replacement. He will be snapped up again very, very fast by another very high value female, and he will again ignore all the women below that level.

[...]

The Alpha has lots of social co-operation in society because he has only one chick – the hottest one – and he stays with her, thereby not screwing over multitudes of other men whose cooperation he needs in order to accomplish things. It is the Omegas that choose to screw multitudes of people over in order to achieve their sexual goals. And you can see this anti-social Omega behavior in high partner count males who laugh and scoff at the “insecure Betas” they screwed over and cuckolded.

definitely my experience. i've never met a really cool guys who chased many many girls screwing other guys doing it, they usually went for the top chicks only and made connections with other guys building their social power.

Post: #42

(10-24-2012 12:20 AM)Adam Michaels Wrote:  

Quote:Zeta: Weak-willed males

Quote:When the game community talks “Alpha” they are really describing “Omega” and when they say “Beta” they are really describing “Zeta.” The proper references to Real Alphas and Real Betas are missing.

Thanks for breaking down the article. One tangential thing to point out - using "Zeta" in this way is nonsensical and lazy. The reason "Omega" is used is because it is the last letter in the greek alphabet, thus signifying the lowest on the proverbial totem pole. Zeta is the (alpha, beta, gamma, delta, epsilon, zeta, etc.) 6th letter. It doesn't come after omega - nothing does, thus Revelations' "I am the alpha and the omega" - the first and the last, signifying that everything begins, and ends, with God.

In this case, it'd make more sense to use gammas/deltas, or deltas/epsilons, as in Brave New World.

Post: #43

(10-25-2012 07:15 AM)Hades Wrote:  What about the sigma male? I would think that most rooshers would tend to identify more with the sigma than the alpha. What the hell is omega?

Whats a sigma? This greek letter shit is confusing me. I'd only ever heard of Alpha/Beta before I joined RVF.

Post: #44

The article has some points. But I didn't like it for its assumptions and black and white reality. One of the assumptions was this American football highschool reality as the baseline reality.

Also, there are a lot of assumptions, on this forum, for example about what alpha is, and what beta is, and I don't think these "alternative assumptions" are necessarily better.

I do know an alpha who is into pickup, who is hated by a lot of guys, but is liked by a lot of guys as well. He says, alphas are born and not made and I agree. He is a ten and so gets 10's.

Another pua guy, yeah, he married a 10, but after some time now he is PUA guy again, not snapped up by another 10! (this cheerleader reality)

I know alpha's who are unattached, do not find their cheerleader 10 or wait some years before coming across her and even then, she may not be as great as all that!

I know another alpha who goes through females at a terrifying rate... he is incredibly well respected, but never seems to form decent relationships. Pimps off his takings to presumed betas (his friends!)

I know another alpha who is into pickup, and forms relationships for short amounts of time with 9's/10's and then moves on.

Sure, some puas are "omegas", and there is some relevant criticism there, but NOT ALL strictly are, as if it should all be about these categories!

Definitely, alphas tend to like sex, so they are sexually dominant often - but not always.

Post: #45

Quote:Alpha males don’t usually get the most partners. Alpha males get the best chick around and she beats off all the other women with a stick. Alpha males are respected in society – they are not only sexually attractive, but they also have great social power and have the respect and admiration of other men. Think back to when you were in high-school. The star quarterback, while he could have shagged a lot of 6’s, 7’s and 8’s, that is not generally what he does. What happens is he gets the prom queen – the best/hottest chick – and they generally stay together for quite a while. He does not trade his “10” in for quickies with a series of “7’s”. The top male pairs off with the top female and they tend to stay together.

There is still some truth to this. SATC still had that Charlotte character. I'd say young American upper-middle class 7+'s and working class 9+'s act like this.

From the male end, it's easy to look down on 6's and 7's when you have the trophy girl. It's also easy to become deluded with the fact that she's "in love" with you. Even now, I'd take an LTR with a trophy chick who's crazy about me than dealing with 6's and 7's with bad attitudes. Sadly, a lot of high-value US men don't have this expectation; they just accept the fact that all women are crazy and ill-mannered a lot of times.

Part of it is also the guy has no choice either. High-end US women aren't going to let you sow your alpha oats at their expense. It's a lot like a subtle trap to enter their prison.

Post: #46

"Nietzsche signals that the man who looks to get compassion through the display of his pains tries to experiment superiority to he who gives him compassion by proving that he is capable of saddening the heart of another, compensating in that way his feeling of inferiority over his own miseries."

Post: #47

(10-25-2012 08:10 AM)XXL Wrote:  definitely my experience. i've never met a really cool guys who chased many many girls screwing other guys doing it, they usually went for the top chicks only and made connections with other guys building their social power.

Scorpio Wrote:Even now, I'd take an LTR with a trophy chick who's crazy about me than dealing with 6's and 7's with bad attitudes. Sadly, a lot of high-value US men don't have this expectation; they just accept the fact that all women are crazy and ill-mannered a lot of times.

I agree with those two. I dont let girls "cheat" on their dudes with me. I'm not about to share girls with other dudes. If you want to be with me, its gonna be all about me.

This attitude will never allow me to have a high notch count, but i only enjoy having sex with women who are devoted to me. If they arent devoted, its not worth the effort on my part lol. The pussy has to be mine, im selfish like that.

Call it entitlement, but because of the Man I have built myself into, I feel I should be put on a pedestal

Post: #48

(10-25-2012 08:10 AM)XXL Wrote:  definitely my experience. i've never met a really cool guys who chased many many girls screwing other guys doing it, they usually went for the top chicks only and made connections with other guys building their social power.

Scorpio Wrote:Even now, I'd take an LTR with a trophy chick who's crazy about me than dealing with 6's and 7's with bad attitudes. Sadly, a lot of high-value US men don't have this expectation; they just accept the fact that all women are crazy and ill-mannered a lot of times.

I agree with those two. I dont let girls "cheat" on their dudes with me. I'm not about to share girls with other dudes. If you want to be with me, its gonna be all about me.

This attitude will never allow me to have a high notch count, but i only enjoy having sex with women who are devoted to me. If they arent devoted, its not worth the effort on my part lol. The pussy has to be mine, im selfish like that.

Call it entitlement, but because of the Man I have built myself into, I feel I should be put on a pedestal

Post: #49

besides the alpha term is soooooo obnoxiously overused. they're RARE. excluding some older guys, i've met about 5-8 alphas [in 18-30 year old bracket] in my whole adult life. every single one of them gave off this vibe that i knew it would be better/beneficial to befriend him than compete. and that's exactly what made them alpha.

Post: #50

(10-25-2012 12:42 PM)iop890 Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 07:15 AM)Hades Wrote:  What about the sigma male? I would think that most rooshers would tend to identify more with the sigma than the alpha. What the hell is omega?

Whats a sigma? This greek letter shit is confusing me. I'd only ever heard of Alpha/Beta before I joined RVF.

A sigma is basically an alpha male minus the leadership of men. Basically Clint Eastwood in almost all of his movies.