Post: #1

I am still seeing the girl that I discussed earlier in this thread (call her Belize girl):

/thread-8606.html

(Correction, with further consideration the girl is more like a 7 or 7.5 than 8.5, as I said in the original thread.)

Since that first post, I've had an entire long term relationship with another girl. And probably fucked about six other girls.

Anyway, after the LTR ended, I reached out the Belize girl. We've gradually started seeing each other more and more. She says that we're "dating" although I'm allowed to see other people. (And I continue to see several other people.) I've gone to bars with her, spent all weekend with her drinking, slept with her three different times, and gone to her family boathouse for a weekend on the lake.

But here's the problem: no sex. I have not fucked this girl. (Our first time sleeping together, I made the beginner's mistake of taking my boxers off before she got naked. I also said some sweet things, thinking sex was guaranteed and it was safe now - never again.) This is very unusual for me, to be this late into dating/seeing a girl and no sex. We have made out about a dozen times. But when I grab her tit, she gently pushes my hand away. Half the time I go to kiss her or grab her tit, she laughs a little - but then continues making out with me anyway. And several times, we've made out and then she abruptly stops and says she has to go. (Notably, when we open-mouth kiss, even though the kisses are pretty heavy, she's pretty conservative with the tongue.)

Consider our last "date":

1. she invites herself over to my place, alone
2. we eat Mexican food together (she pays for both of us)
3. we watch Beerfest together
4. we each drink about six beers
5. we go in the hot tub together. She keeps her distance on the other side of the hot tub.
6. we start another DVD together, this time her legs across my lap, with my hand stroking her thigh
7. she nuzzles up against me
8. she says she likes me rubbing her neck, and wants a massage
9. I ask her to take off her shirt, which she does (she has a tank top undershirt on), lather her baby oil, and give her a massage
10. I say it's her turn to give me a massage, I take off my shirt, and she gives me an equally good massage
11. I turn around, pin her on the couch, and start making out with her - she smiles
12. After about 2 minutes, I look around for a pillow to make her head comfortable - she stands up and tells me she has to go because she has to wake up at 7 am

In other words, after IOI after IOI after IOI, I go to make out with her, and she makes out with me for less than 2 minutes and then abruptly leaves. This is about the third time that this has happened.

Normally, I wouldn't care quite as much, but I'm pretty attracted to this girl, and I always have been.

One clue: once when we were dining, she started talking about evolutionary psychology. She said that when men kiss women, they transmit testosterone to make the girl want to have sex, and that women test out a man's biochemistry (somehow). She also said that she's been burned in past relationships by having sex too soon, then feeling emotionally caught in relationships that she knows she should have ended.

That is my best guess for her behavior. But she seems to take it to a weird extreme.

Several people have told me to confront her about this. I'm pretty sure that if I did that I would fail some kind of state-control and outcome-independence test. I'm also pretty sure that it's about the least sexy conversation you can have with a girl (why won't you fuck me?). So I will just play it cool for now, keep dating other women, and not worry about the outcome. But it sure fucks with my head. Any advice is appreciated.

Post: #2

Wrong place to post first. Women are stupid. You have done what you can, its a lost cause. I'm guessing your in Belize. Not really a party country but maybe you can hit up a bar and catch some tourist lizards. Dont waste your time on this one broad.

She sounds like a little girl. Maybe she is a village girl so sex isn't top priority. I have a shitload of family out there. Been there 10+ times and some of the smaller villages might have girls who lock that pus up. I normally go to PG which is the smallest of the seven main villages and most girls seem to be down to smash.

If you are intent on closing this girl, I'd say you arent fuckin her mind enough. You are probably coming off as a thirsty foreigner that wants to smash and live the country soon. Some girls are down for that and some arent. My last trip was in '07 and I ran into the same problem with a Dangriga lizard. IOI's all day, heavy make out, pulled the top off, rubbin between her legs, but she wouldnt let me close. She wanted it but said I will leave her next week blah blah blah. I was a little twisted so didnt say the right shit to get the close. After that I didnt talk to her for the rest of the week.

Point is you have to fuck her mind first before she spreads the legs. Make her laugh, make her feel special, make her feel like shes the only one. Then maybe she will finally break and give you that flag. Thats too much work for one flag but you seem to be half way there. Good luck with that haha.

Dont let this girl mess over your trip. Seems you took the trip just for her. It aint trickin if you got it but try to go chase some other tail.

Post: #3

1. She is not from Belize. She is from the U.S., Caucasian. She just visited there for a month for scuba diving.
2. I do not live in Belize.

Post: #4

(08-11-2012 10:52 PM)party1981 Wrote:  So I will just play it cool for now, keep dating other women, and not worry about the outcome.

yes. working volume is the cure for vast majority of problems with women.

recognize that now you're in scarcity mode because of her so you literally can't think straight. once you taste some other cool girls you either 1) will think that this one little smurf is like a joke, or 2) will decide who you want thinking more clearly

Post: #5

Two more thoughts:

1. after this overall good date, followed by no sex (and abrupt makeout-ending departure), she did not text me the next day (Saturday) or the next day (today, Sunday). Should I send her some kind of brief, followup, casual text message?

2. maybe she is seeing another guy. Maybe fucking him. That might explain why she doesn't want to get sexually involved with me. But it doesn't quite explain all of the interest she has shown in me (inviting for weekend to her boathouse with family, mutual massages, inviting herself over to my place alone, posting all over my facebook, making out off and on, etc.).

Post: #6

Forgive stock reply: "Anything but yes is no. They are geniuses at excuse-making when they don't like you. "

Importantly, this includes indecisiveness ("no by inaction") on your part too; when she wants to know you want her.

Post: #7

So after the Friday night date (August 10), she has not contacted me once. I sent her a text on Monday afternoon that said I had a great time and would like to hang out again. (I was drunk and several people said that she was just worried that I'm a player). In hindsight, I wouldn't have sent her a text, or would have sent something shorter and funnier. Still haven't heard back. Time to start approaching a lot more girls...

Post: #8

Update on this girl:

She never contacted me back. After 3.5 weeks, three text messages, and then a pretty-beta email, I got nothing.

I could feel myself getting one-itis and losing control. So I 100% blacklisted this girl. Blacklisted on Google Voice, on Google Chat, and on facebook. It is now practically impossible for her to have any contact with me, unless she pounds on my door, which I'm 99.9% assured she will never do. And no, I'm not hoping she does that. I'm too pissed off.

Since then, I've banged one girl on date two, and had another great all-day-date with a girl I like that ended with a kiss close.

The kiss close taught me something: I'm going for tongue too soon when kissing. I said, "would it be too forward if I tried to kiss you now," and she scooted over to me and said "no, I don't think so." When we finished, she wasn't exactly smiling. I asked what was up and she said "you like tongue."

This reminded - when I made out with the girl-of-this-thread, I would try for tongue and she didn't really reciprocate. So maybe that was a big part of why she freaked out. Still, the polite thing to do would to explain that, or to say she doesn't want to date any more, not to ignore me for almost a month.

I normally try to keep women, ex's, etc., spinning in my social orbit in case sex ever becomes desired and available again. But here I followed Roosh's advice - never let a girl reject you twice. She cannot contact me, even if she wanted to. I've been on the receiving end of this before - even when didn't really want to talk to someone, if you try to email them and see you are blocked, it creates a quick "oh shit" sensation.

Contrast this with my earlier philosophy. After I broke up with my second ex, I obsessed over her for 2-3 years. I should have just blocked her and plowed through other women. Live and learn.

Post: #9

Seems like you've gotten over it. Keep it up man.

Post: #10

Purely by accident, I discovered that this girl tried to email after I blocked her (I was drunk and searching my Trash for missed emails from Match.com).

This is what she wrote:

[My name]

I'd love to be friends. In truth, I just never felt any chemistry with you. I like you so much as a person that I was hoping, over time, some sort of spark would form. But it just never did. I wish there was a better explanation but, unfortunately, that romantic chemistry is just something that exists or doesn't exist.

I'm sorry if I've hurt you. It wasn't my intention. My schedule truly is crazy with work and school but if you're comfortable with just being friends, I'd like to still hangout with you. Let me know.

[her name]

She wrote this 5 days after my email asking her what was going on, after three other text messages trying to get in touch with her, and almost a month after I saw her last. (Meanwhile, I'd seen her active on gmail, facebook, and OK Cupid chatting with other people.)

As far as she knows, I never got this message and she is still blocked.

It seems like I have three options:

1. Never answer this message. Continue the block. Go fuck 10 other girls.
2. Answer the message once, asking for more feedback on why there was no chemistry. This might give me advice about things I can change. Go fuck 10 other girls.
3. Answer the email and say we can still be friends, knowing that friendship sometimes, but rarely, turns into sex later on in life. Go fuck 10 other girls.

My favorite option is 1. I don't really know what the forum's policy on "burning the bridge" and blacklisting girls is.

I think it's strange to sleep with someone, hold their hand repeatedly, give them a shirtless back massage with baby oil, and make out with them, if there is no chemistry and never has been. Weird, right?

On the one hand, I think her behavior was rude and deserved a blacklisting. I also think that coming back now, and trying to explain myself and befriend her, would be horribly beta.

On the other hand, she basically admits error, apologizes, tells me that she loves me as a friends, and invites me to spend more time with her - which are all fairly honorable. I wish she would have said these things earlier, before I embarrassed myself, but it is what it is.

Post: #11

this pretty much answered all my questions about this issue when i read it, hopefully it'll help you

http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/0...e-message/

mixed messages aren't mixed at all. they are the message.

Post: #12

Thanks for the link Easy money... If I had known about this earlier it would have helped (I have a similar thread: /thread-15487.html)

Hopefully it will be useful in the future.

Post: #13

Skittish girls are just annoying. There's nothing you can do. If you keep getting these make outs and act like you don't care then that's all you'll get. I was seeing this one girl and she tried this shit with me, I just said have a nice life, I don't have the patience for this. A week later she apologized and I ended up banging her, then she started acting weird about other things, ultimately I decided she wasn't worth the trouble. On another note I've heard the testosterone transfer theory before and that is one reason I make sure to put a lot of my saliva in a girls mouth to the point they are gulping it down, it def turns them on. Note; this should be done intermitently not continuously.