Post: #26

(07-24-2012 07:39 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  

(07-23-2012 01:29 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(07-23-2012 02:08 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  I'm fucking great at sales, I can't get laid to save my life.

Getting laid is something else entirely.

You say you are great at sales. You link to your company's webpage.

So I clicked on it.

I'm not going to take a shit on you.

But guys can read your site and ask themselves, "Does this guy inspire me to hire him?"

If the answer isn't, "Hell yes, where do I sign," then you are not fucking great at sales.

replied in pm

You started the post with "I'm fucking great at sales".

Yet you haven't sold us on why you are "fucking great at sales".

If I had a dollar for every guy I have met that is "fucking great at sales", I would be snorting blow off models on my yacht in Monte Carlo this summer.

So what makes you "fucking great at sales"?

What are you selling?

Post: #27

(07-24-2012 08:43 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(07-24-2012 07:39 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  

(07-23-2012 01:29 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(07-23-2012 02:08 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  I'm fucking great at sales, I can't get laid to save my life.

Getting laid is something else entirely.

You say you are great at sales. You link to your company's webpage.

So I clicked on it.

I'm not going to take a shit on you.

But guys can read your site and ask themselves, "Does this guy inspire me to hire him?"

If the answer isn't, "Hell yes, where do I sign," then you are not fucking great at sales.

replied in pm

You started the post with "I'm fucking great at sales".

Yet you haven't sold us on why you are "fucking great at sales".

If I had a dollar for every guy I have met that is "fucking great at sales", I would be snorting blow off models on my yacht in Monte Carlo this summer.

So what makes you "fucking great at sales"?

What are you selling?

I'm not trying to sell anything on the forum, hence me not promoting any sites with squeeze pages or sales pages on them.

And on the whole I just don't feel much of a need to respond to this, you're being confrontational and it's clear you're a lot more invested in this than I am.

Post: #28

(07-24-2012 09:09 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  

(07-24-2012 08:43 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(07-24-2012 07:39 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  

(07-23-2012 01:29 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(07-23-2012 02:08 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  I'm fucking great at sales, I can't get laid to save my life.

Getting laid is something else entirely.

You say you are great at sales. You link to your company's webpage.

So I clicked on it.

I'm not going to take a shit on you.

But guys can read your site and ask themselves, "Does this guy inspire me to hire him?"

If the answer isn't, "Hell yes, where do I sign," then you are not fucking great at sales.

replied in pm

You started the post with "I'm fucking great at sales".

Yet you haven't sold us on why you are "fucking great at sales".

If I had a dollar for every guy I have met that is "fucking great at sales", I would be snorting blow off models on my yacht in Monte Carlo this summer.

So what makes you "fucking great at sales"?

What are you selling?

I'm not trying to sell anything on the forum, hence me not promoting any sites with squeeze pages or sales pages on them.

And on the whole I just don't feel much of a need to respond to this, you're being confrontational and it's clear you're a lot more invested in this than I am.

How was I being confrontational? I was using your words.

Toughen up.

"squeeze pages or sales pages"

You just answered my question.

Yeah, that's not sales.

Or at least it's not the "sales" that people refer to when they say it is the same as swooping girls.

Post: #29

(07-24-2012 09:18 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(07-24-2012 09:09 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  

(07-24-2012 08:43 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(07-24-2012 07:39 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  

(07-23-2012 01:29 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  You say you are great at sales. You link to your company's webpage.

So I clicked on it.

I'm not going to take a shit on you.

But guys can read your site and ask themselves, "Does this guy inspire me to hire him?"

If the answer isn't, "Hell yes, where do I sign," then you are not fucking great at sales.

replied in pm

You started the post with "I'm fucking great at sales".

Yet you haven't sold us on why you are "fucking great at sales".

If I had a dollar for every guy I have met that is "fucking great at sales", I would be snorting blow off models on my yacht in Monte Carlo this summer.

So what makes you "fucking great at sales"?

What are you selling?

I'm not trying to sell anything on the forum, hence me not promoting any sites with squeeze pages or sales pages on them.

And on the whole I just don't feel much of a need to respond to this, you're being confrontational and it's clear you're a lot more invested in this than I am.

How was I being confrontational? I was using your words.

Toughen up.

"squeeze pages or sales pages"

You just answered my question.

Yeah, that's not sales.

Or at least it's not the "sales" that people refer to when they say it is the same as swooping girls.

Yeah, I wasn't talking about like selling in person... haha, I guess I sort of answered my own question.

Post: #30

(07-24-2012 09:22 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  

(07-24-2012 09:18 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(07-24-2012 09:09 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  

(07-24-2012 08:43 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(07-24-2012 07:39 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  replied in pm

You started the post with "I'm fucking great at sales".

Yet you haven't sold us on why you are "fucking great at sales".

If I had a dollar for every guy I have met that is "fucking great at sales", I would be snorting blow off models on my yacht in Monte Carlo this summer.

So what makes you "fucking great at sales"?

What are you selling?

I'm not trying to sell anything on the forum, hence me not promoting any sites with squeeze pages or sales pages on them.

And on the whole I just don't feel much of a need to respond to this, you're being confrontational and it's clear you're a lot more invested in this than I am.

How was I being confrontational? I was using your words.

Toughen up.

"squeeze pages or sales pages"

You just answered my question.

Yeah, that's not sales.

Or at least it's not the "sales" that people refer to when they say it is the same as swooping girls.

Yeah, I wasn't talking about like selling in person... haha, I guess I sort of answered my own question.

I had this feeling the whole time.

Which is the reason I was asking those questions.

Part of being good at selling is:

1. Knowing who you are talking to

2. Asking questions to figure out who you are talking to

3. Uncovering the answers

I basically just showed you good selling skills in this thread.

Again, easily transferable to swooping girls.

Post: #31

Quote:Yeah, I wasn't talking about like selling in person... haha, I guess I sort of answered my own question.

If you're not selling in person, then it's not sales.


Advertising/Marketing is not sales.

Post: #32

I was in sales to college aged girls for many years. I was decent at my job, and enjoyed it. Some of my peers were worse, some a lot better. Many vendors got to know each other and became a bit of a community - if somewhat of a gypsy community who met sporadically. It was apparent that we all had different sales styles.

My approach was never about selling; you couldn't even call it a soft sales approach. I would never talk up a product, or even point one out. In fact all I was ever interested in was getting to know my customer. And make her laugh. That was it.

My buddy was all about the hard sell. He would handle his pieces of jewelry as if they contained magic, talk up the pieces, and engage the girls over the piece. He was passionate about the items and more passionate about each sale. He was very good at his job.

I doubt I could ever have sustained my interest in sales by trying to emulate my buddies style. And so I can't imagine that taking on his style would have made me more effective. What I did worked, in MY way. I'd get repeat customers each day just because it was a highlight of the girls day to come chat with me. Or because I made a group of girls laugh together. Or got them to tell a story in a group of strangers.

But as for the confluence of sales and game, I had very little success bedding my customers. Another vendor would get lucky nearly every night. And another also did quite well. They were both much, muchhh more handsome than me, but I'm sure they also had particular sales skills that are not transferable between general sales and game.

Post: #33

I think car salesman should be able to make a relatively easy transition to game if they do not have any drastically crippling physical features that can stop a lizard from wanting to pipe them.

I agree with G, face to face sales people should understand what it takes to sell the dream to a reptile and get her to lower her scales.

Thoughts?

Post: #34

Every dude I know that's good with sales is also good with women.

Of course there are additional matters with game. If you're ass ugly or have no style its going to make a difference.

Then you have physical escalation. How are you doing in that department?

There's also logistics which are equally important. If you're a great salesman but struggling with women, consider tweaking your appearance and getting your logistics game down.

Post: #35

It's generally a numbers game. Yet, there are guys out there who literally have every woman they come in contact with completely fawning over them.

None of the PUA's have ever had this ability.

Post: #36

It's also like marketing. Finding good prospects is half the battle. The house party is better than the bar, your fishbowl is better than cold calling on the street. Understanding your customer and finding the type of girl who finds you more appealing saves everyone time. I don't like bars on busy nights, they're shitty compared to house parties and situations with a lot of women.

Post: #37

I've often said here that game=sales. As I have been in sales of high dollar items (cars/trucks) in the past I can see, and have experienced first hand, the obvious similarities between the two. Because they are so similar I never felt there was much reason to expand on it. However, some of the responses in this thread tell me that a lot of guys are not getting it for some reason, so let me try and go a bit deeper into it.

From the start I must stress I am talking about high dollar sales for the most part. Yes, a good salesman can sell anything from cell phones to Slurpees. Those type of items are not long term, emotional investments so they are more of a spur of the moment thing that generally has a small economic impact on a persons life. They are not important, emotional investments. For most people a new car/truck/house/etc is not something they just buy on the spur of the moment as such a purchase can have enormous impact on their lives for years to come. Hence, the decision becomes emotional.

When someone is buying something that will have a large impact on their lives, causing emotions to be in play, it comes down to more than price. It comes down to comfort and trust. Back when I was in sales there were 3 other dealerships selling the same thing I was within the general area so it was easy to cross shop for price if a customer wished. So how does a salesman sell in this environment and still make a good commission without resorting to giving the inventory away? He sells himself. Those other dealers had the same car or truck but they didn't have me. I radiated comfort, trust, humor, empathy without ever losing sight of the fact their ass was going home in that seat. (I never talked price either until their buying temp was way up. Notice how PUA's have stolen a sales term?)

Comparing the above to the player? Well, there are thousands of guys out there she could be banging. Why should she bang you instead of one of them? Because you make a connection with her based on comfort, trust, humor, empathy, etc Sound familiar?

A salesmen uses many of the same principles players use.

They will challenge; "Is that price too much for you to handle?" (Note; There is a difference between that and "Is that price too high?" Can you see it?) Player version; "Is one glass of wine going to kill you?"

They will do a take away; "Well, let's look at this cheaper model..." Player version; Rolls overs and lights a smoke when encountering LMR.

They will smoke out hidden objections; "If we can get the payment under $400 is there anything that would keep you from taking this car home today?" Player version; "What do you say we get a bottle of merlot and get out of here?"

They will use voice inflection to emphasize words in different ways. As an example I say "Why do you say that?" a lot. While I don't put a lot of emphasis on any one of those words, just slightly more on the "why", if one was to say it like this; "Why do YOU say that?" it comes across much differently than "Why do you say THAT?" In the first one you challenge the person while the second challenges their position.

(I should add that "Why do you say that?" has worked very well for me in both sales and game in getting someone to open up. Much much better than either agreeing or disagreeing with them as it forces them to tell you where they are coming from without disputing their position.)

Voice inflection is something a good salesman learns the nuances of and something a player should also understand and practice.

Salesmen have to approach. They are approach machines where rejection means the customer just wasn't ABLE to buy. Like a player, the salesman that is negatively impacted by rejection will not last long in the game.

What about the high roller that rolls up to YOU, acting all imperious while looking for a car for his daughter for graduation? He's just like the dime that thinks she is better than you. You need to flip the script and get him following your lead, respecting you, otherwise you won't make the sale (Or make any money if you do get him to sign.)

There is so much more, but the above spells it out pretty clearly.

I suggest guys buy this book (Not an affiliate link);
http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Closing-Sa...Zig+Ziglar

It's less than ten bux. Read that and tell me you can't see any correlation between game and sales.

btw-It predates all of the PUA material out there by over 15 years and the similarities will astound the non believer.

I also suggest that guys, especially those just getting in, get into sales to boost their game. Even if it's just part time a night or two a week. You will lose your approach anxiety quickly and you will learn to lead people where they want to go even if they don't know it.

Post: #38

They are very similar in philosophy. Being a numbers game, overcoming objections, believing in your product, projecting confidence, closing, etc.

One of the things I wanted to bring up in this thread are some things that some players seem ignore. There are a few threads going on about calculating our magic number and approach index etc. Roosh had a post a while back about it as well.

In sales as in game it's really important to get prospects that are willing to buy your product. Let's say I'm selling car insurance, and try a few different approaches.

1) Spamming random people online.
2) Picking up the phone and cold calling.
3) Seeing if some of my friends just bought a new car or wants a different rate.
4) Asking my friends and fam if they know anyone who wants to compare car insurance or just bought a new car.
5) Setting myself up as a pillar of the community, where people know who I am, know I'm reputable, and approach me.

Obviously, numbers 3,4, and 5 will have the highest chances of success. Granted #5 will probaby take a while to set up and may not generate enough business on it's own.

Now let's apply this to game.

I'd compare #5 to having some type of fame, even if it's on a local level. Maybe you're in a popular band, bartender, whatever it is. #3 is like social circle game, and #4 is like meeting a girl through a friend.

Based on raw numbers these have the highest chances of success. I've met quite a few girls through my friends. They were dating some girl at the time who had a friend. If you're used to going in cold all the time, I can't even begin to tell you how easy it is.

Of course online game and cold approaching are viable options to expand your net, they are just more labor intensive.

In the end I think that every player needs to have a combination of sources to keep the girls coming. It's totally possible to go into a new city and just build up from scratch, but when you're in your home base try to have as many options working for you.

Post: #39

(07-26-2012 09:22 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  Because you make a connection with her based on comfort, trust, humor, empathy, etc

Nail, meet hammer.

But you may have missed out a few pieces. If you don't have your full well rounded game going, all of that comfort building can lead to the friend zone.

The best method assumes the sale, and builds to the sale at the same time. It builds trust, but also escalates kino. It starts with a sexual cocky funny vibe, and retains tension.

The sales angle is great - but it's not the whole picture. Game is really a specialized skill with specialized tools.

We often don't notice what our tools are until we are forced to describe them. That leads us to pry apart and examine our Swiss-Army knife.

Post: #40

I didn't miss a few pieces.

Writing a book was not my aim, turned out longer than I wanted as it is, and some things should be obvious without having to be spelled out.

Also, there is no "best" method. A good salesman AND player will tailor his game to the prospect, as they are all different in small and big ways.

Post: #41

(07-24-2012 08:42 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(07-24-2012 02:53 AM)XXL Wrote:  yeah same with me. this selling thing is some kind of bad joke. i always always always go in to screen and establish buyer/seller dynamic in the first seconds.

being the seller: you go in, you're already sold on her looks and that's all, her bad breath or lack of feminity doesn't bother you, so you try to hook the set, you try try try, sell sell sell, until she complies or denies.

That is not really high end selling.

Post: #42

Day Bang seems to be all about numbers and so does a great deal of PUA stuff, especially when it comes to daygame. I could see that comparison would be pretty accurate.

Post: #43

We are always selling ourselves in one way or another. We just don't think of it as such. Doesn't matter what kind of job you have, what are you doing to get a promotion? What are you doing to get people to like you? What are you doing to get better treatment in a club/bar? Women are selling themselves to men when they put on makeup and designer clothes. Men are selling themselves to women when they drive fancy cars and wear expensive watches. The world, our society, is transactional in nature. We give something to get something in return. Selling is merely the art of understanding and exploiting this to your advantage. "Gaming" is, for all intent and purpose, a business. Those that achieve the greatest success in it, treat it as such.

The ultimate salesman doesn't "sell" he gets the "buyer" to believe the decision was theirs. And if you have a good enough product targeted at the right market you may not need to do any "selling" at all e.g. music/movie stars and iPads.

Post: #44

Similarities:

-The "cold calling"/"cold approaching" nature, and rejection tolerance

-Results come from conveying value. The better you convey your value to them (i.e. what you add to their life) the better you do, in both sales and game

-Pure persistence can go a long way, selling prods/services and with getting girls

-Appearing desperate for the close pushes the girl/customer away

Differences:

-The value is intrinsically different. Value in sales is often how your offer solves their logical problem: what you can do for them. Value in game = the emotions/experience the girl gets by being around you.

-In sales, you're selling your product or service. Even as a freelancer, it's more about what you can do, than who you are. With game, your value is primarily "the kind of guy you are". It's much more personal ( and thus more thorny inner-game-wise).

-Acting like the Buyer actually draws girls to you. This is because of the difference in the nature of the value, and also the girls' need to feel validated. In sales, unless you've gone for a very bold "exclusive and discerning" positioning, it's very much about being as "can do" as possible for the client (while maintaining self-respect and standards, of course).

Post: #45

Couldn't say it any better than the above.

Post: #46

(07-23-2012 02:08 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  I'm fucking great at sales, I can't get laid to save my life.

Getting laid is something else entirely.

Probe for areas of disatisfaction with their lives and meet their needs

Post: #47

(01-30-2013 11:39 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  The ultimate salesman doesn't "sell" he gets the "buyer" to believe the decision was theirs.

Nomad gets it.

Post: #48

When I was a salesman my main technique was getting the girl to talk about herself and to make her laugh.

Post: #49

One other thing that correlates between the two;

Always be closing.

Hell, I'll throw in one other.

Assume the close.

In other words, unless she has blown you out, take her hand and lead her where you want to go.

Post: #50

Actually, trying to get into a chick's panties IS like selling....

....selling her a dream