(04-09-2014 08:26 PM)Blunt Wrote:  Are any of you guys counting calories?

Juicing appeals to me but I want to start counting calories to get through that last piece of belly fat and get the abs for summer. It seems like it would be difficult to count for juicing.

Also is there a lot of sugar in it? I am generally low carb and don't know my body would react.

It's hard to count calories with juice, since all you can really do is weigh the whole fruit/veggie. I don't know how many calories are lost in the pulp. Since you should primarily be juicing vegetables anyway, juices aren't very high in calories.

There can be a lot of sugar, depending on what you juice. But I wouldn't be concerned with the juice. You can't really be low carb and drink juice - they're really high in carbs.

As for your body's reaction - try it and find out. I haven't met anybody yet that didn't love the way they felt after drinking a few glasses of juice. It changes your life.

Market day today, bought a bunch of beets, celery, lemons, carrots, green apples and some ginger. Breakfast for the next few days taken care of.

(04-08-2014 09:59 PM)SteveCR Wrote:  Correct, 1 cucumber and about 3 stalks of celery will give you about the same benefits as juicing either kale or spinach. The main vitamin we need from green veggies is vitamin K.

Not entirely true.

Vitamin K is a micronutrient. Kale and other leafy greens also contain phytochemicals.

If you read Fit juice (authored by yours truly), you'll see all sorts of research about the relationship between various phytochemicals and disease.

http://fit-juice.com

So you're right that it's not worth agonizing over.

But a wide variety of veggies and leafy greens sort of "covers all bases" when it comes to plant nutrients.

I got that covered, too:

How Many Calories are in Juice.

mike, this might have already been answered, and if it has sorry, but I understand that most of the vitamins and nutrients are fat soluble. Does it matter where the fat comes from? Right now, 8 oz of my 24 oz juice is just coconut milk to get the fats required

(04-09-2014 11:07 PM)clever alias Wrote:  mike, this might have already been answered, and if it has sorry, but I understand that most of the vitamins and nutrients are fat soluble. Does it matter where the fat comes from? Right now, 8 oz of my 24 oz juice is just coconut milk to get the fats required

Coconut milk is a good source of fats. I use that.

I also use coconut oil, MCT oil (it's tasteless; just throw a teaspoon in), eat some walnuts or almonds, or drink juices with my fat-containing meal like eggs.

right now I have my 32 oz juice in the morning with no food (four cups worth), i do about 16 oz of greens, either bok choy (I get great yield from bok choy) or kale, another 8 oz carrot/apple to cut the taste, then a whole cup of coconut milk. I don't like giving up a whole quarter of my juice to fats, but I think the trade off is worth it if I'm not eating breakfast with the juice, I want to get all the nutrients I can.

(04-09-2014 11:19 PM)clever alias Wrote:  right now I have my 32 oz juice in the morning with no food (four cups worth), i do about 16 oz of greens, either bok choy (I get great yield from bok choy) or kale, another 8 oz carrot/apple to cut the taste, then a whole cup of coconut milk. I don't like giving up a whole quarter of my juice to fats, but I think the trade off is worth it if I'm not eating breakfast with the juice, I want to get all the nutrients I can.

Well, there's another way to look at it.

Lots of people have gone on juice fasts and only had juice.

And they got great results!

So maybe adding fats into the juice is something that we don't need to worry that much about.

In theory it's very important. But if you look around at "juicers" and they aren't doing it and things are working out well, then maybe the theory is not so important.

Ya feel me?

don't overthink it. Got ya! Thanks

How many teaspoons of coconut oil is advised for a 32oz glass of carrot juice? Just one teaspoon?

MikeCF,

Q: Juicer vs. VitaMix? I started the VitaMix a little over a year ago and it has been fantastic. My ex got me started, and she made a convincing claim that there is a lot of value in the stuff we often throw away. The Kale stock, roughage, pulp from everything, mango peels, etc. Her belief was that with a juicer you end up throwing away a lot of the healthiest stuff, with the VitaMix you just throw in the whole everything and hit start (and after this thing shakes your house to pieces...you end up with a killer shake).

Anyway, I can't seem to find a flaw in her argument (i.e. better to use a device that doesn't throw away the best parts of the vegetables/fruits). Oh, and it seems like it is a lot faster on prep time and there is very little clean up.

Appreciate any thoughts you may have.

@anon123- the fiber is just for pooping (ala theory). Juice (from juicing) is more palatable to drink. Too much pulp is a laxative.

Try drinking a kale, parsley, carrot shake and try drinking the same with juice. Former is gag-worthy, Later is do-able.

(04-10-2014 07:41 AM)anonymous123 Wrote:  MikeCF,

Q: Juicer vs. VitaMix? I started the VitaMix a little over a year ago and it has been fantastic. My ex got me started, and she made a convincing claim that there is a lot of value in the stuff we often throw away. The Kale stock, roughage, pulp from everything, mango peels, etc. Her belief was that with a juicer you end up throwing away a lot of the healthiest stuff, with the VitaMix you just throw in the whole everything and hit start (and after this thing shakes your house to pieces...you end up with a killer shake).

Anyway, I can't seem to find a flaw in her argument (i.e. better to use a device that doesn't throw away the best parts of the vegetables/fruits). Oh, and it seems like it is a lot faster on prep time and there is very little clean up.

Appreciate any thoughts you may have.

Juicing and blending are both great. The pulp is just fiber.

I did two posts covering this (controversial) topic:

Juicing or Blending?

Is Juicing Better Than Blending?


FWIW, I do both and don't think there's a right answer.

You could try blending and the pouring it through a strainer or cheesecloth. People on the internet report success with this method. My guess is the biggest downside is that the extraction won't be nearly as efficient as with a good juicer.

I'm about to upgrade to a blender that will be better able to blend vegetables and will try this out.

How much produce do you need to realize the benefits of their consumption? If it's a lot, you'll want to juice, because eating a pound of blended carrots isn't easy.

I've also heard that a regular diet of fermented vegetables will enhance your digestive system.

^ You usually need to add water to get enough juice out of the veggies, otherwise it's just a big pulpy mess.

I have a BlendTec. You're welcome to come over (or borrow it for a day or two) to experiment with it to see what you can pull off.

@DVY and MikeCF,

Thanks, that is helpful. The claims that I've heard is that juicing truly strips out the best parts of the vegetables (e.g. some of the best part of an apple is the skin, this isn't going into a juicer).

But, I think you two just helped me stumble across an aha moment. With the VitaMix I have a general formla:
1. Throw in a grip of greens (Kale, Collard Greens, Turnip Greens, or Spinach). Rotate these.
2. Throw in some type of fresh, lower water fruit (for this banana, mango, apple, pear, peaches, plums, something like that)
3. Throw in some frozen fruit to top it off and make it cold (strawberries, mixed berries, cherries, etc.)
4. Add water and hit start
5. Optional. Add some greek yogurt (I only do this if I'm trying to add a little protein because no time for eggs or other source).

Although I like the above formula, there really is no way to get around using a decent amount of fruit in every smoothie. It sounds like with the juicer you can get your nutrients, but don't necessarily need to throw in an apple and some frozen strawberries to make it work. And since I don't have to choose, I think I will take the leap.

^ If you're worried about carbs, just make a green juice using kale, cucumber, celery. Chug it down and chase it with a shot of lemon. (sort of like a tequila shot.)

@anon123- MikeCF is the go-to expert on this subject, but let me throw my 2c in.

I do both (at separate intervals). Juice and Blend. Juice veggies to maximize vegetable nutrient intake.

Blending is for sweet-tooth/protein consumption- Frozen berry blend+greek yogurt+ chocolate protein powder. This seems to work best for me. A side corollary is that many of fruit beneficial elements are in the skin.

I tried throwing some carrots into my new blender, and it still was a little gritty. Unless my blender is much worse than a vitamix or blendtec, eating a lb of carrots in a smoothie on a regular basis is unworkable. If you need more than a handful of certain fibrous vegetables like carrots to realize their benefits, blending is not much of an option.

I'm curious as to how fermentation compares with juicing. Fermentation increases the nutrient availability of produce supposedly, and thus effectively cheaper, and is also less labor intensive than juicing if you use a big enough container to ferment in. It also makes the produce easier to digest, although still not as easy as say carrot juice.

Fermentation has a little bit of an image problem, as there aren't hot white girls in yoga pants walking around with jars of sauerkraut in their Lululemon tote bag. You just think of smelly Polish peasant grandmas. It also has a lot more salt, although I've heard there are ways to ferment with little to no salt.

@Basil Ransom - yes, the VitaMix is drastically different than a blender and would whip those aforementioned carrots into an oblivion. This is why you can look at these and ask "why would someone pay $600 for a blender?". Answer: not really a blender...the machine is nuts!

I had a $200 Breville blender and didn't think it would be that much different. Nope. Completely different outcome when comparing a blender to a VitaMix.

Carrots are still gross in a blender. It's like baby food, but grittier.

Fermented food is great. Read, "The Brain Diet." I've mention it many times.

There's a link between mental disorders and unhealthy gut. Fermented food populates the stomach with beneficial bacteria. Better health, greater clarity of mind, fewer mental disorders.

(04-11-2014 05:22 PM)anonymous123 Wrote:  @Basil Ransom - yes, the VitaMix is drastically different than a blender and would whip those aforementioned carrots into an oblivion. This is why you can look at these and ask "why would someone pay $600 for a blender?". Answer: not really a blender...the machine is nuts!

I had a $200 Breville blender and didn't think it would be that much different. Nope. Completely different outcome when comparing a blender to a VitaMix.

I have had my Vitamix for about 3 years, and I agree that it is a phenomenal machine. I paid around $400 for it, i believe, but well worth the price. It's american made and it has a 7 year warranty.

Actually, a few weeks ago, I was talking with a friend of mine, and he said that he was selling a lot of his belongings on craigslist, and he mentioned that he sold his new vitamix on craigslist for like $100 (he had only used it once). I said wtf!!!!??? I would have bought the vitamix from him for that price (even though I already have one), if i had known about it.

Anyhow, a guy may get lucky to find a vitamix for much less than the retail price if he looks around a bit.

I just checked Craigslist for Vitamix and Blendtec blenders, everything I saw was $300 plus. So it might be awhile until you found one at a bargain price.

I tried some of my fermented vegetables and it's clear that you'd still never get the volume of fibrous vegetables that you would with juicing. Pound for pound though, fermentation seems like the most efficient use of produce, it just depends on what you're trying to accomplish and how much you're trying to consume. If you need to consume a lb of carrots in a sitting, juicing is your best bet, assuming it extracts most of the carrot's nutrients.

Just focusing on carrots because that is my test case. Going to try blending beets next - fermented beets are still fibrous. Although you could cut the fibrous vegetables up finely and that would make them easier to eat more of once fermented.

(04-11-2014 06:06 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  I just checked Craigslist for Vitamix and Blendtec blenders, everything I saw was $300 plus. So it might be awhile until you found one at a bargain price.

I tried some of my fermented vegetables and it's clear that you'd still never get the volume of fibrous vegetables that you would with juicing. Pound for pound though, fermentation seems like the most efficient use of produce, it just depends on what you're trying to accomplish and how much you're trying to consume. If you need to consume a lb of carrots in a sitting, juicing is your best bet, assuming it extracts most of the carrot's nutrients.

Just focusing on carrots because that is my test case. Going to try blending beets next - fermented beets are still fibrous. Although you could cut the fibrous vegetables up finely and that would make them easier to eat more of once fermented.

I don't want to overstate the obvious, but I know from experience that there are frequently considerable values on craigslist that get unnoticed or overlooked b/c people place them in the wrong category or b/c of the high volume of postings in the section of their post. Therefore, if you are really interested in saving a couple hundred dollars, it may be worth it to try a few threads and refresh somewhat systematically. Also, once an item sells, the poster can remove it from the listings, so you may NOT see some bargain items that had previously been posted.


Regarding your comment about fermentation as compared with blending or juicing: Aren't we talking about different kinds of nutrients being present in fermented foods as compared with juiced or blended foods - i mean the probiotic aspect of fermented foods?

Juicing or blending is NOT likely going to deliver your body any probiotic elements, unless you have some kind of system that lets your juice/blend sit for several days or maybe even weeks before you consume it.

Personally, I do tend to blend rather than juice, and I do tend to allow my blended concoctions to sit for quite a while as I am continuing to drink them over several weeks. Some people have told me that I am acting drunk (but maybe that was mostly when I had been blending the fruity items in my week old drinks?).

These days, in the last couple of years, I have NOT been blending as many fruits into my drinks as I had done in the past, and my palate has become less craving of those kinds of fruit items in my drinks, too.

Anyhow Basil, if you have given some thoughts to fermentation, I would be curious about how you consider fermentation to play into juicing or blending?

I only juiced something once, so I'm not the best person to ask. If say you got certain benefits from juicing, try eating a variety of fermented vegetables instead and see how you feel.

Also, fermentation is not only about obtaining probiotics in your diet, but also increasing the vitamin content of the food. I don't know exactly how it works or the human effects it has, but if say a carrot delivers twice the impact if fermented rather than say, blended, that makes a difference.

It's probably best to go on a case by case basis for whether to eat, juice, blend or ferment. Tradition is a good guide here, probably. Ferment cabbage and beets, blend bananas (including green bananas, which I will try soon), juice carrots, etc. Personally, I'm not going to start juicing just yet because I'm concentrating on optimizing other parts of my diet and routine first. Going to try and eat cooled potatoes and green bananas for the resistant starch, and eat fermented vegetables daily instead of sporadically. Also need to try out bone broths.

One advantage of fermentation is that you can stock up for weeks or months worth when there's a good sale. The sauerkraut I had today, was bought weeks and weeks ago when organic cabbage was on sale for $1 for 4 lbs.