Post: #526

(04-21-2012 06:42 AM)Partizan Wrote:  Nice ass. when was that Kamaki?

It was 2 years ago in May if I remember.

Post: #527

This gift giving that Kamaki does isn't close to what I'd consider prostitution.


Although he is spending money on the girls, he isn't spending money on sex. Technically, the girls could refuse to have sex with him after he paid for their shit.


It seems to me that paying for girls over there just makes you look more attractive in their eyes. A totally different culture from the United States; here, our women have money and view men who pay for them as suckers, over there no one has money and paying for them shows your ability to survive in a harsh environment.

Thanks for the info Kamaki.

Post: #528

Last night I did an experiment. I said "I'm here on holiday for two weeks."

I was called out as a sex tourist THREE times, more then the previous six weeks. Once was from an Indian guy.

Interesting thing is that one of the girl's who called me a sex tourist invited me for a drink but her girlfriend cockblocked me pretty hard by saying I wasn't allowed in the car.

I'm going to try it again... my first instinct was that it was bad but it may screen out for girls who want just sex.

Post: #529

(04-21-2012 09:00 AM)Samseau Wrote:  This gift giving that Kamaki does isn't close to what I'd consider prostitution.


Although he is spending money on the girls, he isn't spending money on sex. Technically, the girls could refuse to have sex with him after he paid for their shit.


It seems to me that paying for girls over there just makes you look more attractive in their eyes. A totally different culture from the United States; here, our women have money and view men who pay for them as suckers, over there no one has money and paying for them shows your ability to survive in a harsh environment.

Thanks for the info Kamaki.

Keep in mind that I am usually asked for financial help after the bang and that girls ask for it.I am just not difficult to comply.
Anyway there is no one way road as I have multiple times written.The game in Kiev is very different than in western Ukraine and situation in western Ukraine carries no relation to situation in the East.Also there are important regional differences between close cities.
The possibilities which I have developed are sponsor,future groom and lover.For other girl I am the former for others the latter.There are advantages and disadvantages in each situation.It does not mean in no case that a future groom has a better time than a sponsor or that one situation is better than the rest.Every girl is different although there are common patterns.
For example one girl's sponsor will suffer while a future groom has very nice experience(of the same girl simultaneously).For another girl it will be the opposite.Character of women always comes into play.

Post: #530

I meant to reply earlier this week to all the great comments that have been on here, but didn't have time until now.

(1)

I'm going to take Deb's side on this one and I hope he doesn't leave the forum.

If, by all accounts, he's a very good looking guy with natural game, then I don't think he's going to be able to well explain that his exact methods. His game works on instinct. To be honest, I probably couldn't explain what I do to get girls. Until I ran into this site and Roissy's, I didn't even have the vocabulary. I've been dropping negs on girls and been cocky-funny for years, but I'd never even heard of those words or was even consciously aware that that's what I was doing until I read it here.

I enjoy his posts on what he's scored, even though it's not giving many pointers on technique. I think he's absolutely scoring the girls that he says he is. If I'm ever in Lvov while he's there, I'd like to grab a drink with him.

Even if people are getting mad that he doesn't explain how he's doing it, he's still a huge asset to the forum. He's our man on the ground in Lviv. He can tell us what clubs are good, where the places with the most attractive girls are, where the 20 somethings go, where the students go. Since the scene is always changing over there, he can tell us the trends like if the girls are becoming more materialistic, more Westernized, what's on the girls' minds, etc. It'd be a shame to run him off because he isn't telling us "My most effective pick up technique is to walk up to a girl, put my right hand over her left temple and perform a Vulcan mind-meld on her."

(2)

Nemesis is right when he said the "I don't have money to buy the shoes" is not a casual comment. And absolutely right when he says just ignore it. I used to ignore requests like that all the time and eventually the girl just comes out and says it "buy me shoes!!!"

Here's a hilarious Russian candid camera set up that a rich guy did on his wife or girlfriend.. it well illustrates the governing dynamic of buying girls shit to get laid. It's effective, however, it's probably only for a minority of the guys on this forum. I think most would not want to drop lots of cash on dates and gifts to get a quick lay. But if you can do it, more power to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CHtz6VKsNw

The guys says:

"In this dealership are the most expensive cars in the world
How do you like it baby?
That's a Bentley. Do you know how much it costs? "no" 350 thousand euro
Hmm? "My darling!!!!"
Buy me the bentley!!
Buy me the bentley!!
Buy! buy! buy! buy!
I want a bentley! I want a bentley!!

"What are you doing? why are you doing this?"
Ok, now you got it?? This is the same shit you did to me yesterday when you wanted that fur coat!!!


If you ever spent time in the FSU, you can relate to the guy in the video.. fucking hilarious.

(3)

One of Kamaki's comments about Deb being ethnic Serbian caught my eye

"I agree as Balkan you have the right looks attitude etc.Also the culture has similarities since we are orthodox as well.We are presentable in this coutnry.
My feeling is that they perceive Balkan power as a dark element causing them some slight terror which many girls find as an aphrodisiac."

Ukrainian girls seem to love Serbian guys. He's right on the money. However, the Serbian guys couldn't care less. The only group of men I ever met over there that did not find Ukrainian girls good looking were Serbs. They always said it was better for them back home.

Anyways, back to my point. Kamaki dissed my earlier comment about Chechen mafia game being an effective game for a lot of women over there, which I still dispute. Chechen mafia is also that "dark element" which causes them slight terror which they find as an aphrodisiac. I wasn't saying be a Chechen. He's right about Slavs not liking them. Chechens and guys from the Caucasus are looked down on as being racially inferior... What I am saying is that the combination of being a brutal dude with an occasional soft side works wonders with these girls. Just like the Chechens, the Serbians have it. I don't think Deb's running mafioso game, but maybe his Serbian looks are triggering the stereotype and reaction in the girl anyhow. I didn't use this game. I'm not a brutal dude. It's absolutely not congruent with my personality. I'm only tough when I'm challenged, I don't go around pushing other people around. But I know it works over there, I've seen it too often.

Post: #531

(04-21-2012 10:12 AM)Roosh Wrote:  Last night I did an experiment. I said "I'm here on holiday for two weeks."
I was called out as a sex tourist THREE times, more then the previous six weeks. Once was from an Indian guy.

I hope you replied back with something like "So what?" or just laugh without even commenting it.
In this case you might even want to trim down two weeks to "I'll probably leave tomorrow".

Quote:I'm going to try it again... my first instinct was that it was bad but it may screen out for girls who want just sex.

I'd be interested to hear how it works, although I doubt it. The problem is that very few girls in Ukraine who want sex go to the clubs - because she knows the chance for her to be approached by someone who is not a completely wasted dude is very low.

Post: #532

(04-21-2012 09:00 AM)Samseau Wrote:  This gift giving that Kamaki does isn't close to what I'd consider prostitution.
Although he is spending money on the girls, he isn't spending money on sex. Technically, the girls could refuse to have sex with him after he paid for their shit.

Happens a lot in Thailand and Philippines - a bargirl there doesn't have to have sex with you, and even after you paid the barfine she theoretically can refuse to have sex with you. So by law this ain't prostitution - you've just paid money to the bar and the girl left with you, so if she has sex with you she must really like you, right?

But even there there is prostitution re-branded for Westerners. "I'm paying you to have sex with you, but I want you to pretend that you like me as I am". A bargirl there would gladly accept your invitation to a club and bring her friends and they'll have drinks on your dime, and of course she'll fuck you after you spent 9,000 baht on their entertainment. Sure you'd save 7,000 by just giving her the 2K baht directly, but it takes the balls to honestly accept the fact that you're paying for sex. Apparently a lot of Westerners lack those balls, so they pay extra to pretend they aren't paying for sex. And those girls feel the weakness - and use it all the way.

As I have said zillions of times, it is easy to test - just put the money she's getting out of equation. If she still fucks you, it is not prostitution. If she doesn't fuck you without receiving the money, it is. Again, there is nothing wrong with paying for sex, just this ain't game.

Post: #533

Subotai, I definitely agree with you that Chechen Mafia game works well not just in Ukraine but most of EE I believe. It used to work especially well in my country (Lithuania) up until recently...(now the G Manifesto look seems to work well as Vilnius has become very expensive and upscale).

If you have the tall, dark, and athletic yet serious look ( look like u could bounce anyone out of the club) you'd be getting majorly "eye fucked" (disregard the fact that this is a Ukrainian celebrity).

Post: #534

(04-23-2012 11:13 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  Happens a lot in Thailand and Philippines - a bargirl there doesn't have to have sex with you, and even after you paid the barfine she theoretically can refuse to have sex with you. So by law this ain't prostitution - you've just paid money to the bar and the girl left with you, so if she has sex with you she must really like you, right?

While technically she can refuse to have sex with you and keep the money, the bar in question has a reputation to keep and girls that do that risk ruining the reputation of the bar/owner. So although she can refuse, the owner and mamasan in the club will strongly encourage otherwise.

Post: #535

Thanks Subotai for this: http://www.you tube.com/watch?v=5CHtz6VKsNw

I'm saving it on the iPhone and will hand it to a girl if needed in Kiev and just hit play at any time I choose. Cheap data plans in Ukraine.

Post: #536

@Subotai: at the risk of sounding pedantic your youtube video was not a candid camera but a sketch. The woman was acting and had a camera crew in her face. Still funny non the less.

Post: #537

@Vorkuta Definitely could be acting.. I couldn't find the origin of the clip by reading the comments.. It seemed to me more like a "Punked" thing, where the guy is in on it and wanted to embarrass his girlfriend/wife. Do you know what show it's from?

Here's another funny link from the FSU... even the FSU guys are getting tired of all their girls with all of their modeling photos. They really nailed it with this one.. this looks like 99% of the girls on vkontakte

This is what it would look like if men posed like women on vkontakte

http://n-perfilova.livejournal.com/209564.html

Post: #538

(04-23-2012 09:07 PM)LifeBeginsAt40 Wrote:  While technically she can refuse to have sex with you and keep the money, the bar in question has a reputation to keep and girls that do that risk ruining the reputation of the bar/owner. So although she can refuse, the owner and mamasan in the club will strongly encourage otherwise.

Of course. This was to address Samseau's position that apparently one is not paying for sex in case the girl can refuse to have sex with him even if he spends the money on her. Of course this is not the case, it is still paying for sex.

If you elaborate it further then someone visiting a Craigslist whore in the US is not paying for sex either, because her ad typically states that the money is "for companionship only" and any sex which might happen is just a thing which happens between adults. So technically she can refuse to have sex with a guy and he'd have no legal recourse (after all the money he paid were for companionship, not for sex), but I doubt anyone would say this is not prostitution.

Post: #539

Found a pretty interesting answer to the "what are you doing here", and it seem to work really well during the limited trial. The answer is "I've come back to visit my motherland". The overall reaction I've experienced was mostly positive with a non-typical followup questions, in one case it was neutral.

Now why this kind of answer might be good:

- It is neutral in term that it doesn't put pressure on her to shit test you (as if you said you're there for business - a "what kind of business?" follow-up is basically required by the culture), and it doesn't have any negative meaning ("I'm on vacation" -> "your'e a sex tourist")

- It could be used by everyone and anywhere without raising suspicions (i.e. you tell the girl you're on a two week vacation there and she replies that she've seen you in a club three weeks ago, or you tell her you're there for business but it is weekday afternoon and you're in a park). Even in extreme cases like if you're black and saying this somewhere in Ukraine you can still pull a story about how your parents were in that country doing some government or military jobs.

- It could be adjusted for the cases when you don't speak the language or know the place, and for the cases where you do. Your explanation is "I was born here, but my parents were <your current nationality>, so we lived here for <some time> and then left". Just change the length you spent in the country after you were born. If you spent there a year or two after you were born, it wouldn't be reasonable to expect you to speak the language or know anything about what happened during that time.

- It is hard to shit test on it. First most girls never heard this kind of answer so they don't have an obvious follow-up. Second, the only sure way to shit test it is to ask to see your passport, but this would be extremely ridiculous request.

- It provides a good explanation why you're here without being linked with any specific event or situation. And it works well even when you're obviously a tourist taking pictures in a touristy places.

- It could be followed up with a bunch of reasonable questions (where do you live now? how long time ago you left? were your parents local? what were they doing here? have you been back before?), and most of them would give you an opportunity to sell yourself.

So let me know what you guys think of it.

Post: #540

(04-25-2012 07:36 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  ...........So let me know what you guys think of it.

I like it however I think only some of the more culturally aware could pull it off. The average guy who is fresh off the plane from the West and who has little cultural understanding would be found out quite quickly I would say. I mean if the girl asked you what your Patronymic was for example, or why you don't speak any Ukrainian/Russian despite having Ukrainian parents etc. you'd be on the back foot and probably come across as in-congruent in your reply. However if you've been there a few weeks/months then yes I'd say it would be good to run with it as it might also negate some women's reluctance to date a foreigner ( you're only a semi foreigner and from the same cultural background as the dev ). I'll be over in Belarus in early July so will test it out.

Post: #541

Alright so the weather is nice and the girls are out in full force. You'd think it would be heaven to approach on the street, right? Well, surprisingly I'm not being able to get off a lot of approaches (street game only).

-Most of the girls are with someone. If they are alone, they are often on the phone (calls to same network are free, so girls chat a lot on the phone). The hotter the girl is, the less likely she will be accessible.
-You run into usual issues when approach (lack of English, lack of interest, and so on).
-Percentage of girls alone who are 7 and above who are alone is low, maybe 5% (in America that number is maybe 0.75%). This is not counting if you're able to get to her to do the approach.
-Tons of girls in the parks, but they're never alone. Many are sitting on benches.
-Lots of girls waiting outside metro stations for someone, but sucks to approach and then have the friend (or boyfriend) roll up in 2 minutes.

I walked around today for an hour and approached two girls. Like everything else in this city, the ROI was low. Most of my day game success in other countries were in malls or grocery stores, but the grocery store near me sucks and the mall is far. To see results I'd have to dedicate 2 hours of day game per day. It's definitely doable but you have to put in big chunks of time, which, if you're already getting laid, is sort of pointless to do.

A day game wingman would help here since so many girls are in pairs.

If you come you really need to hit all three avenues of game (day, night, internet) as hard as you can. You can't just coast on one. It's like a full time job IF you want to add girls to the rotation. If you got a girl then it's not bad because she doesn't require much upkeep. They are content just coming over.

Deb and Kamaki has obviously seen much success here, but I think it's painting a rosy picture for how challenging it really is for most guys. I got a girl that I like and I'm holding on to her tight because it's just a drag to bring in another. I'm not giving up but with such a low ROI my heart isn't into it.

Post: #542

Roosh, do you still have a beard?

Post: #543

I've done tests. Slight beard actually helps (announces you are a foreigner). I've gone no beard and got less love. There are many girls here who like hairy, bearded man.

Post: #544

(04-25-2012 03:16 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Alright so the weather is nice and the girls are out in full force. You'd think it would be heaven to approach on the street, right? Well, surprisingly I'm not being able to get off a lot of approaches (street game only).

-Most of the girls are with someone. If they are alone, they are often on the phone (calls to same network are free, so girls chat a lot on the phone). The hotter the girl is, the less likely she will be accessible.
-You run into usual issues when approach (lack of English, lack of interest, and so on).
-Percentage of girls alone who are 7 and above who are alone is low, maybe 5% (in America that number is maybe 0.75%). This is not counting if you're able to get to her to do the approach.
-Tons of girls in the parks, but they're never alone. Many are sitting on benches.
-Lots of girls waiting outside metro stations for someone, but sucks to approach and then have the friend (or boyfriend) roll up in 2 minutes.

I walked around today for an hour and approached two girls. Like everything else in this city, the ROI was low. Most of my day game success in other countries were in malls or grocery stores, but the grocery store near me sucks and the mall is far. To see results I'd have to dedicate 2 hours of day game per day. It's definitely doable but you have to put in big chunks of time, which, if you're already getting laid, is sort of pointless to do.

A day game wingman would help here since so many girls are in pairs.

If you come you really need to hit all three avenues of game (day, night, internet) as hard as you can. You can't just coast on one. It's like a full time job IF you want to add girls to the rotation. If you got a girl then it's not bad because she doesn't require much upkeep. They are content just coming over.

Deb and Kamaki has obviously seen much success here, but I think it's painting a rosy picture for how challenging it really is for most guys. I got a girl that I like and I'm holding on to her tight because it's just a drag to bring in another. I'm not giving up but with such a low ROI my heart isn't into it.

This sounds like me in South America. It was so demotivating that i rather watched a movie on my laptop during the day then go day gaming. Then again i'm ashamed to say i still haven't read Day bang although i bought it in the first week. Gonna do that this weekend.

Post: #545

(04-25-2012 03:16 PM)Roosh Wrote:  .
To see results I'd have to dedicate 2 hours of day game per day. It's definitely doable but you have to put in big chunks of time, which, if you're already getting laid, is sort of pointless to do.

It's like a full time job IF you want to add girls to the rotation. If you got a girl then it's not bad because she doesn't require much upkeep. They are content just coming over.

This is really the key point in all this though, isn't it? You are pushing yourself to the extreme, trying to max your notch count and exploring all avenues of game. You are viewing this as a professional.

Most guys aren't going to do that. For the average guy going in, once he puts the time in and has a couple of decent girls in his rotation he can just coast. The quality of girls would be far higher than anything he could get in N. America, so it's still a worthwhile endeavour in the end.

Post: #546

I think it is really underestimated just how positive it is being tall in places like Ukraine and Russia. I would say your height holds more weight in the FSU than any other region in the world. I am 6'5" and in St Petersburg I was getting some serious IOI's, albeit 8 years ago. Still the IOI's where passer by's on the street so they had no knowledge I was a foreigner. They could have been eye fucking a local for all they knew. By all accounts Deb is around the same height and gets serious IOI's too. Not sure how tall Greek Kamaki is but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was tall. An interesting test to do is have two members get together. One a tall guy (6'3" or higher) and another around half a foot shorter. Then observe the IOI's each get.

Post: #547

(04-25-2012 08:13 PM)LifeBeginsAt40 Wrote:  I think it is really underestimated just how positive it is being tall in places like Ukraine and Russia. I would say your height holds more weight in the FSU than any other region in the world. I am 6'5" and in St Petersburg I was getting some serious IOI's, albeit 8 years ago. Still the IOI's where passer by's on the street so they had no knowledge I was a foreigner. They could have been eye fucking a local for all they knew. By all accounts Deb is around the same height and gets serious IOI's too. Not sure how tall Greek Kamaki is but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was tall. An interesting test to do is have two members get together. One a tall guy (6'3" or higher) and another around half a foot shorter. Then observe the IOI's each get.

An interesting test to do is have two members get together. One a tall guy (6'3" or higher) and another around half a foot shorter. Then observe the IOI's each get.

Dude, that's a pointless test. I'm not gay but even I look if a 6'6" guy passes by....it's almost like being on the beach. If a skinny and a bodybuilder guy pass which one would get majority of the attention from women? It's not even a theory worth testing.

Post: #548

(04-25-2012 08:13 PM)LifeBeginsAt40 Wrote:  I think it is really underestimated just how positive it is being tall in places like Ukraine and Russia. I would say your height holds more weight in the FSU than any other region in the world. I am 6'5" and in St Petersburg I was getting some serious IOI's, albeit 8 years ago. Still the IOI's where passer by's on the street so they had no knowledge I was a foreigner. They could have been eye fucking a local for all they knew. By all accounts Deb is around the same height and gets serious IOI's too. Not sure how tall Greek Kamaki is but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was tall. An interesting test to do is have two members get together. One a tall guy (6'3" or higher) and another around half a foot shorter. Then observe the IOI's each get.

Maybe we can arrange a trip for Mystery and Style to test it out.

Post: #549

(04-25-2012 09:55 PM)Soma Wrote:  

(04-25-2012 08:13 PM)LifeBeginsAt40 Wrote:  I think it is really underestimated just how positive it is being tall in places like Ukraine and Russia. I would say your height holds more weight in the FSU than any other region in the world. I am 6'5" and in St Petersburg I was getting some serious IOI's, albeit 8 years ago. Still the IOI's where passer by's on the street so they had no knowledge I was a foreigner. They could have been eye fucking a local for all they knew. By all accounts Deb is around the same height and gets serious IOI's too. Not sure how tall Greek Kamaki is but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was tall. An interesting test to do is have two members get together. One a tall guy (6'3" or higher) and another around half a foot shorter. Then observe the IOI's each get.

Maybe we can arrange a trip for Mystery and Style to test it out.

Post: #550

(04-25-2012 08:13 PM)LifeBeginsAt40 Wrote:  I think it is really underestimated just how positive it is being tall in places like Ukraine and Russia. I would say your height holds more weight in the FSU than any other region in the world. I am 6'5" and in St Petersburg I was getting some serious IOI's, albeit 8 years ago. Still the IOI's where passer by's on the street so they had no knowledge I was a foreigner. They could have been eye fucking a local for all they knew. By all accounts Deb is around the same height and gets serious IOI's too. Not sure how tall Greek Kamaki is but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was tall. An interesting test to do is have two members get together. One a tall guy (6'3" or higher) and another around half a foot shorter. Then observe the IOI's each get.

Having alpha qualities i.e. height, musculature, body language, and visible money is beneficial in the FSU (also the rest of the world).

I hardly think the importance of height is underestimated anywhere.

The point being, if you are under 6'4'' you shouldn't forgo your quest for Slavic vaj just because others have easier access to it.