Post: #1

I got laid off 2 years ago

I've been trying to do some side work and pursue my own thing but it hasn't really gone anywhere (engineering).

I'm at a point where I need to go get a job.

Anyways, gaps of more then a year seem very suspect to people.

What are the things HR departments want to hear to gloss over this fact?

Post: #2

(03-28-2015 02:09 AM)ms224 Wrote:  I got laid off 2 years ago

I've been trying to do some side work and pursue my own thing but it hasn't really gone anywhere (engineering).

I'm at a point where I need to go get a job.

Anyways, gaps of more then a year seem very suspect to people.

What are the things HR departments want to hear to gloss over this fact?

You don't have a 2 year absense from working, you worked for your uncle[fill in the blank] doing [fill in the blank].

Post: #3

+ self-employed doing something fitting for the job you are applying
+ mostly traveling working a job which can be proven only difficultly
+ make up fake job somewhere

But it really depends on the company - even taking sabbaticals is fine for some, but is a no-go for others.

Post: #4

Pursuing your own thing is great interview fodder. Failing doesn't void the experience - most entrepreneurs fail at some point.

Everyone likes an ambitious self starter. Learn to talk yourself up a bit. You're selling yourself here, and selling is all how you spin it.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #5

Say you did a consulting project for a year or two. Get a solid reference. Pay them if you have to. There are companies that will give you references.

Post: #6

I'd just lie.

I can't recall the last CV I read that wasn't a load of self congratulatory bullshit anyway.

Post: #7

(03-28-2015 05:22 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  I'd just lie.

I can't recall the last CV I read that wasn't a load of self congratulatory bullshit anyway.

I thought that's what a CV was.

Post: #8

If you can meet and impress someone who has hiring power and a position to fill, your CV doesn't matter. Put a substantial amount of effort into networking. I know someone who got a job once by dancing with and getting the contacts of a girl in a club who worked under someone with hiring power. It's who you know.

Post: #9

Doing qualifications or professional certifications, setting up a web business, blur the dates of when your last job finished, say you working abroad, doing a relevant unpaid internship, or were freelancing. You'll probably need to bribe a referee if the interviewer swallows those last ones, though.

Post: #10

(03-28-2015 05:22 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  I'd just lie.

I can't recall the last CV I read that wasn't a load of self congratulatory bullshit anyway.

You should see my CV. It's one page, most of which is taken up of a giant photograph of yours truly.

Post: #11

How do you explain a 2 year absence from work?

Short answer: You don't.

Long answer: Do this:

Lie by creating a job with relevant and transferrable skills.

Fabricate a few accomplishments/successful projects that you were solely responsible for. Be SPECIFIC, use numbers, stats, percentages, etc. Have a 2-4 minute spiel for each one in the STAR format, rehearse it, know it even before you start applying.

Google spoof-card, buy it, give it to a friend who can act on the phone to be your former supervisor (I'll do it for you if you're US-based, PM me if interested). Or go to career excuse.com, they'll make a virtual company from scratch with a website and references to your specifications.

Post: #12

Lie.

Post: #13

It's possible to fabricate references and make up work experience for a traditional reference check. As a side note, I hope all the fabricated references people provide these days will finally make the feudal tradition of checking references and asking previous bosses' opinion about the candidate obsolete.

A more difficult problem is going through a thorough background check. I'm not even talking about law enforcement or government jobs. Most big banks, for example, conduct (or outsource) background checks to companies like Hire Right. These companies will call HR of previous employees, check diplomas with schools, etc. I'm sure they have methods to spot a made up web site and a reference given by a friend.

Post: #14

I have a shell company

Do I just write up some non-sense (which I am actually capable of doing) about consulting work?

How do I back something like this up?

Post: #15

(03-28-2015 04:38 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Pursuing your own thing is great interview fodder. Failing doesn't void the experience - most entrepreneurs fail at some point.

Everyone likes an ambitious self starter. Learn to talk yourself up a bit. You're selling yourself here, and selling is all how you spin it.

This is an interesting topic to me. I left my job about a month ago to pursue my business fulltime. I was wondering if I wind up having to go back in the workforce in the future I can see being an entrepreneur being a good thing in terms of your self reliant, not an idiot, etc.

That said I can also see a potential employer being worried you are used to answering to yourself and won't be managed easily or in my case and granted I don't have to share this but essentially my day job gave me my idea for my business and I wound up leaving and though not really a direct competitor I'm in the same industry as my previous employer. I was worried an employer may see me as competition once I learn the industry, potentially I leave and start my own company.

Post: #16

I don't support lying. Not for any moral reasons, but because it's easily caught. And do you really want to work for and take orders from someone who you fooled with the most transparent of lies?

Quote:What are the things HR departments want to hear to gloss over this fact?

That's your mistake. The less dealings you have with HR, the better. Do whatever it takes to talk to people doing the actual hiring and HR becomes a mere formality.

Quote:This is an interesting topic to me. I left my job about a month ago to pursue my business fulltime. I was wondering if I wind up having to go back in the workforce in the future I can see being an entrepreneur being a good thing in terms of your self reliant, not an idiot, etc.

That said I can also see a potential employer being worried you are used to answering to yourself and won't be managed easily or in my case and granted I don't have to share this but essentially my day job gave me my idea for my business and I wound up leaving and though not really a direct competitor I'm in the same industry as my previous employer. I was worried an employer may see me as competition once I learn the industry, potentially I leave and start my own company.

Depends on the hiring manager. An ambitious one looking to do big things in the company might see your self reliance and non-idiot status as a positive. A manager looking to hire tools to use and abuse will definitely see your entrepreneurial attitude as a negative.

Post: #17

Quote:A more difficult problem is going through a thorough background check. I'm not even talking about law enforcement or government jobs. Most big banks, for example, conduct (or outsource) background checks to companies like Hire Right. These companies will call HR of previous employees, check diplomas with schools, etc. I'm sure they have methods to spot a made up web site and a reference given by a friend.

I worked for HSBC about 5 years ago. They use a company called Sterling Backcheck then. They asked for a copy of my completed transcript. I only did 2 semesters. I still sent it in. I started working the next week. Maybe HireRight is better?

Re: HR. You can buy an phone accounts like at grasshopper.com, set up an ivr (press 4 for hr etc), you can even set the hours the lines are open, the call get routed to a friend you have waiting. He verifies:

1) The last 4 of your ssn,
2) your ending title/rank,
3) dates of employment.

G/f of a friend who works HR for a hotel in Albany, NY told me that's all they can legally ask for and it's "so easy to get over". Or OP can say the company is out of business (no HR dept) but he has the cell for his former supervisor (friend who can act) who love to give a reference (a detailed story about an accomplishment that was written by OP and rehearsed).

Sites like who.is contain web domain registrar info but that can be blocked(Domains By Proxy) when you buy the domain for your fake site. Use can make legit sites with wix, rapidweaver, etc...I think a fake job package could be put together for about 100 bucks.

The best ways to catch someone is to use the social security number to check which employers were making FUTA payments (I saw this form when I applied for unemployment years ago) and when or using the National Student Clearinghouse for degrees. This takes time and $$, and people naturally drift towards the path of least resistance so one can lie for years and probably get away with it.

Post: #18

(03-28-2015 02:09 AM)ms224 Wrote:  I got laid off 2 years ago

I've been trying to do some side work and pursue my own thing but it hasn't really gone anywhere (engineering).

I'm at a point where I need to go get a job.

Anyways, gaps of more then a year seem very suspect to people.

What are the things HR departments want to hear to gloss over this fact?

To me it sounds like you've been working for yourself the past two years, though not all that successfully. You just need to formalize that experience a bit and you'll be better off.

What kind of engineering? You should set up an LLC and voila - you've just become a consultant. That, and if you don't have one already, get a cheap web site, a related email and some business cards to go with your new found consultancy. Finally, make sure you have an updated profile on Linkedin, since that's the first place the HR twat's going to go to find a reason to reject your resume.

Are there any certs or professional development you have been doing in the meantime? Don't forget to highlight that too.

Two years is a pretty big gap but it doesn't sound like you've been doing nothing at all. Just need to stay relevant and take away their reasons to reject you.

Post: #19

At this point I need something so I can eat , I'll do some cube sitting if thats what it takes

I tried to do some engineering consulting (I'd rather not say what exactly publicly) but its hard to find enough work.

How does this sound

MS224 - Owner of My own company (I've had this llc for a few years)

-experts in all the things I've worked on and can do

Post: #20

Lie.

Most of my smarter friends have gotten white collar jobs one level above their pay grade by completely lying on their CV to move up when changing jobs. Realistically, if youre a smart enough guy, in most jobs you can jump up a level professionally and work your ass off for a few months to play catch-up.

Same logic applies for explaining a 6 month + gap on your CV. No point in dealing with it when its so easy to cover up.

I always look at it as a probability game:

- If I apply for the job with my true CV, I won't get it. I lose.
- If I apply for the job with a faked CV, and get caught on it, I don't get the job. Same result as applying with a real CV.
- If I apply for the job with a faked CV, and get a job I shouldnt have gotten, I win.

The only caveat is you'll have to make sure to keep your fake employment history story up in the workplace for the indefinite future with co-workers, if you don't want to lose the job. I've had friends be caught out on that one.

Post: #21

Sell yourself, omit the ugly parts, but don't lie. It's dishonest and will get you into hot water if discovered, not to mention destroy your reputation. Just show them what you gained from the experience that you had over those two years. Ultimately, they will hire you if they believe you, more than your competition, will help them improve the business and make it more profitable.

"I've been working on starting a business that does [such and such thing]. I went into the enterprise knowing there was a greater risk of failure than in a job at an established company, and although my business failed, I learned X, Y, and Z. I have reached a point where I want to shift gears, and the experience I gained trying to get my own business off the ground will make me an effective employee at your company because [reasons]."

Post: #22

why lie. own your frame.

Your company downsized and you lost your position. You pursed self employment and your own business interests. You had a successfull company but ultimately decided it wasnt for you. Thus you want to go back into the employee world. You bring valuable skills to your employer and have already realized that a steady job is what you want.

Its game, just applied to a job environment.

Post: #23

+1 on not lying. Live your own life, and show it off.

What did you do with those two years? Sit on the couch and get drunk? Or travel, meet people, and learn new skills?

I took 1.5 years off after university. Traveled a lot, learned to dive, did a few other interesting things. Got my (old) job by being upfront, because people who do things like that, bold enough to travel on own, can appreciate the value of other culture, are points that they thought very highly of.

I had other friends who said i'd never get a job unless I went straight out of school. That just meant *he* wouldn't hire someone who took time off after school. Well I wouldn't hire someone as uptight as him thinking that a nice linear progression from jr high to CEO was the only way to do things. So different strokes.

Honestly one of the biggest reasons people hire who they do, is just people who they like and can relate to. In the long term this can lead to an inbred corporate culture, but it will still get you the job.

Post: #24

The problem is , I didn't have a successful company.

Post: #25

(03-28-2015 09:29 PM)ms224 Wrote:  The problem is , I didn't have a successful company.

Ask yourself: are you good at what you do and is what you do in demand? If so, it really doesn't matter what your resume looks like. Someone will pay you.

If the answer to those questions are no, then you'd better improve your skills.