Post: #126

(03-10-2015 08:06 AM)Libertas Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 04:57 AM)Benoit Wrote:  What they did was offensive - that's the point. Private membership groups often do things in private that they don't want known in public.

But this "private membership group" was acting as representatives of a public university. Big difference. That's the whole lynchpin of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

If this was a truly private club you'd be right, but it isn't. It's part of a public accommodation.

I don't care a whole lot about this one way or another, but are frats really considered public accommodations? Do you have a citation for that?

Post: #127

(03-10-2015 08:55 AM)Sir Vigorous Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 08:45 AM)Benoit Wrote:  It's nothing but outrage journalism. Can anyone here honestly say they weren't aware that some people still think and do racist things? Why focus on this bunch of kids who you'll likely never hear of again?

Believe it or not, I am somewhat surprised that an entire bus, and entire fraternity, and their dates would sing a song about excluding "niggers" from their ranks and would rather see them lynched. Many people don't interact with large groups of racists like that so it is a shock to many in the country. Apparently many here think this is normal stupid "boys, will be boys" behavior and this has opened my eyes to how prevalent and normal this behavior might be.

That's why it's a big story, people knew there were racists in organizations, but many people didn't know an entire chapter of a major fraternity held overtly racist attitudes and sings songs about it. It's a shock to the conscious of people who don't associate with that many racists or don't harbor racist thought.

You must not get out much with other people or your mind would be absolutely blown and obliterated about the stuff black people talk among each other. Doing a little "I hate niggers!" chant is nothing because there's about a 0% chance any of them would actually DO anything to blacks. Black dudes talking about clowning on some white crackas for no other reason cause "dem mothafuckas be racist and sheeit I'm gon get mine payment!"...

well I still find it funny but also amazing that people can have such a thorough understanding how men and women and cultures can differ but then draw a KUMBAYA WE'RE ALL EQUAL blank when it comes to race (and culture, to a big extent) in the same country

Post: #128

First the liberals took our slaves, now this.

Where will it end?

Post: #129

(03-10-2015 09:04 AM)TheWastelander Wrote:  I don't care a whole lot about this one way or another, but are frats really considered public accommodations? Do you have a citation for that?

They are part of and representative of a university which is a public accommodation.

I don't have a specific citation right now but I would be heavily surprised if I was incorrect.

Post: #130

(03-10-2015 02:14 AM)weambulance Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 01:27 AM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 12:18 AM)weambulance Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 11:52 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 09:56 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  If a black fraternity was taped saying white men should be hanged there would be zero repercussions.

Black college educated men would never say anything that stupid, so the argument is moot. White college men in several southern schools likely have chants similar to this because bigotry and hatred runs deep in this country, even in higher education.

I take it from that comment that you're some kind of black supremacist? Black men would never do such a thing, and are thus morally superior to white men, some of whom we know did do such a thing.

Maybe you'd like to clarify the point.

Hear is your clarity- Black fraternity members, college educated students, would not chant anything derogatory about white people in the context of our Greek organizations and would gladly accept whites into our Greek organizations. White men , and women(white sororities got caught up earlier last year in a similar situation) have repeatedly made racist statements and excluded black students from their Greek organizations. I am specifically speaking about out educated , college enrolled, Greek organization members and their behavior.

The OSU students who made that video were in a Greek organization,college students, and educated. They will hang niggers from a tree, but not allow them membership in their frat. Show me a black frat that will chant the equivalent, with the pride and exuberance, those OSU boys did.

I don't need to show you a black frat that will do anything. The question was: "Is Atlanta Man a black supremacist?" and the answer is: "Yes, yes he is."

You are outright stating that blacks are morally superior to whites.

Group A would not do the bad thing that (some members of) Group B did, and the only difference between the two groups is Group A is black and Group B is white. Therefore we can logically conclude that the reason Group A would not do that bad thing is because they are black. So, blacks are better than whites.

Your bias is clear. Thanks for playing.

Your question went to the root of my original statement and asked for clarification which I gave you. Now you insist I am a black supremacist for making a true statement (the racial realism- only white fraternities are excluding based on race). I not a black supremacist, my mother is white. you are not understanding the statements I made on this thread, or you willfully misconstrued them to come to your conclusions for the sake of branding me as a black supremacist.

Post: #131

(03-10-2015 08:55 AM)Sir Vigorous Wrote:  Believe it or not, I am somewhat surprised that an entire bus, and entire fraternity, and their dates would sing a song about excluding "niggers" from their ranks and would rather see them lynched. Many people don't interact with large groups of racists like that so it is a shock to many in the country. Apparently many here think this is normal stupid "boys, will be boys" behavior and this has opened my eyes to how prevalent and normal this behavior might be.

It is totally normal to put down the 'other' in favour of your group. It's how humans work. We are all animals when biology is involved.

So now you have this knowledge, what productive way can you implement what you've learned from the media coverage? Avoid getting on a frat bus? That's why I call it outrage journalism. The only purpose is to give people an emotional high by making them angry.

Quote:That's why it's a big story, people knew there were racists in organizations, but many people didn't know an entire chapter of a major fraternity held overtly racist attitudes and sings songs about it. It's a shock to the conscious of people who don't associate with that many racists or don't harbor racist thought.

Are you saying that I'm now a racist because I accept that other people are racist?

You're probably near to quite a few people who dislike you intensely for some intrinsic reason. They just don't say so to your face.

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold

Post: #132

(03-10-2015 09:08 AM)HughMyron Wrote:  Doing a little "I hate niggers!" chant is nothing because there's about a 0% chance any of them would actually DO anything to blacks.

You can be racist without lynching someone, denying them entry into your organization is one of those ways to be racist.

"Doing a little 'I hate niggers!' chant is nothing". <-This is a shocking statement to people. I'm just explaining to those who seem to be confused as to why this is a big story. Or people who think it is only a big story cause they media just loves black people and hates white men. It is actually shocking to a large portion of the population they would do this chant so openly.

Post: #133

(03-10-2015 09:28 AM)Sir Vigorous Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 09:08 AM)HughMyron Wrote:  Doing a little "I hate niggers!" chant is nothing because there's about a 0% chance any of them would actually DO anything to blacks.

You can be racist without lynching someone, denying them entry into your organization is one of those ways to be racist.

"Doing a little 'I hate niggers!' chant is nothing". <-This is a shocking statement to people. I'm just explaining to those who seem to be confused as to why this is a big story. Or people who think it is only a big story cause they media just loves black people and hates white men. It is actually shocking to a large portion of the population they would do this chant so openly.

How is it shocking? Have you ever been to a football game? The whole point of these chants that everyone participates in is to create an Us vs. Them mentality, and you do that the easiest by simply disparaging the Them part of the equation. This is just one chant, I'm sure they (and other fraternities) have many other different chants: against the rival football team, against the rival fraternities or sororities or schools or whatever.

Also you really need to grow some thicker skin if you want to live non-hysterically in this world. I know people who have openly stated that they have something against other races/cultures for whatever reasons but they still are polite and cordial to them when they meet them. Colleagues, friends, college buddies, acquiantances, boys and girls, everybody has some prejudices and you know what? If you're not made out of cotton candy it shouldn't bother you. Jewish girls being against black guys, German buddies ragging on Polish friends that all Polish steal stuff, the typical "German are stiff robots with no sense of humor", one Turk colleague constantly talking about his Jewish Zionist Illuminati theories at work, old grannies remarking "Oh my you were so hard working and polite I never would've guessed that you were Russian!". Just relax those overly clenched anus muscles and let words roll off your back.

Oh and about the racism of people judging you but not getting violent with you? I'd much rather prefer this than when the local Turks keep wanting to start trouble because you're a white local and they're there in a huge group of other swarthy dudes seeking to assert dominance with violence.

Post: #134

"These Ku Kluxes are better at lynchings than lyrics!"

Post: #135

(03-10-2015 09:27 AM)Benoit Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 08:55 AM)Sir Vigorous Wrote:  Believe it or not, I am somewhat surprised that an entire bus, and entire fraternity, and their dates would sing a song about excluding "niggers" from their ranks and would rather see them lynched. Many people don't interact with large groups of racists like that so it is a shock to many in the country. Apparently many here think this is normal stupid "boys, will be boys" behavior and this has opened my eyes to how prevalent and normal this behavior might be.

It is totally normal to put down the 'other' in favour of your group. It's how humans work. We are all animals when biology is involved.

So now you have this knowledge, what productive way can you implement what you've learned from the media coverage? Avoid getting on a frat bus? That's why I call it outrage journalism. The only purpose is to give people an emotional high by making them angry.

Quote:That's why it's a big story, people knew there were racists in organizations, but many people didn't know an entire chapter of a major fraternity held overtly racist attitudes and sings songs about it. It's a shock to the conscious of people who don't associate with that many racists or don't harbor racist thought.

Are you saying that I'm now a racist because I accept that other people are racist?

You're probably near to quite a few people who dislike you intensely for some intrinsic reason. They just don't say so to your face.

What I can do with this knowledge is watch my back around college/frat bros from southern states. I already watch my back around anyone, but in an effort to be non-racist I didn't want to assume a white person from the south was racist. Now that I know that white southerners in major organizations just revel in their racism I have to be extra careful being friendly around them. I will act differently now, so all the coverage of the story has had a point.

All the coverage of the story accompanied by all the comments on the story have elucidated a racist culture I didn't know could exist at a major institution like OU (which I previously respected). People say, oh it's just small towns where people are like this, or a few pockets of backwards areas. No, it's in major collegiate institutions. The people on that bus were future scientist, lawyers, and politicians, not backwoods tobacco chewing rednecks.



Also i'm not saying that you are racist, but that you probably are around racism and racist comments. If not I struggle to see how you take their chant in stride.

"you can hang him from a tree, but he'll never sign me".

Post: #136

The chant was about niggers not law abiding black folks.

Post: #137

By the way, I don't think the punishment fits the crime. I'm willing to bet plenty of people here have told racist jokes in private or laughed at some without actually harboring hatred in their hearts. These morons thought their cute little chant was something that would stay private, but it didn't.

I think forcing them to do X amount of community service hours helping black families in the area would've been more productive than expelling them. I'm also sure there were probably guys not singing who got caught up in this.

There's also the risk of actually turning some of them into hardcore racists by destroying their academic careers and likely their future job prospects.

Now that that's out of the way, I do think there is a bit of a double-standard going on here, as others have pointed out. Racism is treated like a one-sided thing by the media and most definitely the university system. If you've ever taken a sociology class at college, you would know this. They tend to believe that only whites can be racist, because power + whatever = random left-wing bullshit (I forgot their retarded equation). We all know that's not the case because there are insecure haters in every race.

The powers that be primarily ignore the nonsense non-white racists say and, for instance, act like "homophobia" coming from minorities doesn't exist.

Not justifying anything that happened in this instance, but just trying to explain where some people are coming from. The media looks for things they can use to forward their narrative and blow them up into huge controversies, while they ignore things that aren't helpful to them.

All in all, I don't really care too much but people should ask what the media is trying to accomplish here and if expulsion really fits the crime rather than some other sanction.

Post: #138

Did the "media" magically make this thread 6 pages in 1 day?

Post: #139

(03-10-2015 09:41 AM)Sir Vigorous Wrote:  What I can do with this knowledge is watch my back around college/frat bros from southern states. I already watch my back around anyone, but in an effort to be non-racist I didn't want to assume a white person from the south was racist. Now that I know that white southerners in major organizations just revel in their racism I have to be extra careful being friendly around them. I will act differently now, so all the coverage of the story has had a point.

Watch your back in case they sing at you? Not invite you to join their club?

I'm being flippant here, but they would have held those beliefs before this story broke, and apparently they weren't jumping you then.

Quote:Also i'm not saying that you are racist, but that you probably are around racism and racist comments. If not I struggle to see how you take their chant in stride.

"you can hang him from a tree, but he'll never sign me".

I treat their threats against an non-specific person exactly the same as I treat people getting upset at characters in movies. It's evidence of poor critical thinking processes, not evidence that they will carry out violent acts.

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold

Post: #140

(03-10-2015 09:53 AM)aSimpNamedBrokeback Wrote:  Did the "media" magically make this thread 6 pages in 1 day?

If it wasn't for the media's obsession with racism you wouldn't know or be outraged by a bunch of spoiled white kids saying something racist in Oklahoma on a bus.

They're manipulating your emotions. That's their business model.

Post: #141

(03-10-2015 09:39 AM)HughMyron Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 09:28 AM)Sir Vigorous Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 09:08 AM)HughMyron Wrote:  Doing a little "I hate niggers!" chant is nothing because there's about a 0% chance any of them would actually DO anything to blacks.

You can be racist without lynching someone, denying them entry into your organization is one of those ways to be racist.

"Doing a little 'I hate niggers!' chant is nothing". <-This is a shocking statement to people. I'm just explaining to those who seem to be confused as to why this is a big story. Or people who think it is only a big story cause they media just loves black people and hates white men. It is actually shocking to a large portion of the population they would do this chant so openly.

How is it shocking? Have you ever been to a football game? The whole point of these chants that everyone participates in is to create an Us vs. Them mentality, and you do that the easiest by simply disparaging the Them part of the equation. This is just one chant, I'm sure they (and other fraternities) have many other different chants: against the rival football team, against the rival fraternities or sororities or schools or whatever.

Having a chant against a rival football team is not the same as a chant against a race of people. I understand your point about the genesis of such behavior. Just because it comes from a similar place doesn't mean it's as harmless. "Fuck State" =/= "lynch the niggers"

Do not worry, I don't have thin skin. I'm not in an hysterical fit right now. I'm just shocked because it was unexpected. I have re-calibrated and will handle the world differently now.

(03-10-2015 09:46 AM)TheWastelander Wrote:  All in all, I don't really care too much but people should ask what the media is trying to accomplish here and if expulsion really fits the crime rather than some other sanction.

I agree, i trust the media 0%. Their coverage is sensationalist and ridiculous. However, the underlying story I still believe to be substantive. I would give the chapter a chance to defend their position of not admitting black people and to explain their chant. If they come up with a decent set of reasons and logic behind it that isn't just hate, I'd suspend but let them back on campus. If it is just because they don't like black people and think they are all criminals, then they'd be gone for years and possibly expelled if I can find some discrimination they've done.

Post: #142

(03-10-2015 09:46 AM)TheWastelander Wrote:  By the way, I don't think the punishment fits the crime. I'm willing to bet plenty of people here have told racist jokes in private or laughed at some without actually harboring hatred in their hearts. These morons thought their cute little chant was something that would stay private, but it didn't.

I think forcing them to do X amount of community service hours helping black families in the area would've been more productive than expelling them. I'm also sure there were probably guys not singing who got caught up in this.

There's also the risk of actually turning some of them into hardcore racists by destroying their academic careers and likely their future job prospects.

Now that that's out of the way, I do think there is a bit of a double-standard going on here, as others have pointed out. Racism is treated like a one-sided thing by the media and most definitely the university system. If you've ever taken a sociology class at college, you would know this. They tend to believe that only whites can be racist, because power + whatever = random left-wing bullshit (I forgot their retarded equation). We all know that's not the case because there are insecure haters in every race.

The powers that be primarily ignore the nonsense non-white racists say and, for instance, act like "homophobia" coming from minorities doesn't exist.

Not justifying anything that happened in this instance, but just trying to explain where some people are coming from. The media looks for things they can use to forward their narrative and blow them up into huge controversies, while they ignore things that aren't helpful to them.

All in all, I don't really care too much but people should ask what the media is trying to accomplish here and if expulsion really fits the crime rather than some other sanction.

This is actually a very good response all around. The school making them do some kind of community service would actually serve a productive end. As of yet I don't think anyone's been expelled, but it's only a matter of time. These guys' lives will be ruined and they'll be bitter and jaded, thus increasing their feelings of racism most likely, instead of dissipating it with the community service.

Also you made the crucial point about the media ignoring "homophobia" from minorities. Back when I was in school (and also on the internet to this day), I noticed that those attitudes were far more prevalent amongst minorities, particularly Latinos, than whites. Yet whenever you hear the story of a homophobic slur it's always invariably aimed at some white guy.

The media is really at the heart of all of this. Like I said, the hysteria narrative has made us so desensitized to claims of racism that when something like this comes along, it's natural for many of us to treat it with a degree of indifference or hostility. It's what's putting us at each other's throats.

I wonder when a rape case will come along that will receive similar derision from us for the same reason.

Post: #143

(03-10-2015 10:00 AM)TheWastelander Wrote:  If it wasn't for the media's obsession with racism you wouldn't know or be outraged by a bunch of spoiled white kids saying something racist in Oklahoma on a bus.

This might be the dumbest thing I've read in this whole thread. I'm not outraged at all by this, I find the racial hamstering in this thread more outrageous than the chant. Saying the its medias fault people are outraged by this is outrageous.

Post: #144

How many actual Southerners do we have in here?

Lynching was widespread until less than 50 years ago. When you or your parent's generation was being terrorized and murdered for the color of your skin, it is not something you take as a "joke".

And neither do these boys singing the song. They understand exactly how hateful and derogatory it is.

If you're a major university in the South, this is simply something you can not be seen condoning. These issues are still very fresh in people's minds and surrounded with a large amount of tension.

If you want to see a real double standard, read people's posts about Muslims attacking people because of their religion and then watch them take the exact opposite stance about white people attacking others for their race.

"But they aren't actually racist" ignoring the fact that these boys' parents didn't even attend the same schools as blacks. Yeah, there's absolutely no chance that they actually harbor any animosity towards blacks, it's all an aberration created by the media

Post: #145

(03-10-2015 10:19 AM)Enigma Wrote:  If you want to see a real double standard, read people's posts about Muslims attacking people because of their religion and then watch them take the exact opposite stance about white people attacking others for their race.

Post: #146

(03-10-2015 10:15 AM)aSimpNamedBrokeback Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 10:00 AM)TheWastelander Wrote:  If it wasn't for the media's obsession with racism you wouldn't know or be outraged by a bunch of spoiled white kids saying something racist in Oklahoma on a bus.

This might be the dumbest thing I've read in this whole thread. I'm not outraged at all by this, I find the racial hamstering in this thread more outrageous than the chant. Saying the its medias fault people are outraged by this is outrageous.

You might want to work on the image you present to the forum then, because whenever there's a thread about a story where there might even be a whiff of racism at play, there you are. Your posts in the Ferguson thread and the various cop threads come to mind.

I understand you might be oversensitive to this sort of thing and you might even have good reason to be given your experiences, but you do sound like you have a lot of bitterness.

And yeah, there is some hamstering going on in this thread, but it ain't about media manipulation.

Post: #147

(03-10-2015 10:19 AM)Enigma Wrote:  How many actual Southerners do we have in here?

Lynching was widespread until less than 50 years ago. When you or your parent's generation was being terrorized and murdered for the color of your skin, it is not something you take as a "joke".

And neither do these boys singing the song. They understand exactly how hateful and derogatory it is.

If you're a major university in the South, this is simply something you can not be seen condoning. These issues are still very fresh in people's minds and surrounded with a large amount of tension.

Oklahoma isn't in the South, but point taken.

Post: #148

If you say something in front of a girl, you've effectively said it to all of her friends

Zero sympathy for the chapter, I'll say some things in jest, but anything this blatant is from a group harboring some legitimate racist feelings. When you join a Greek organization you sign up for (literally sign) a serious amount of contracts for adhering to PC behavior, and they failed to abide by a long shot

Post: #149

Quote:These boys didn't just think of this song spur of the moment. This song didn't just pop up as a joke.
They learned this from somewhere..They already harbored these feelings.
Its probably not the first time they have said things like this. This isn't an isolated case.
ITs like you are trying to say that racism doesn't exist.

Since you quoted 2x me I feel obliged to clarify myself. I'm black so I'd be one of those "niggers" that SAE was singing about.

Racism is an idea that all races have fixed characteristics. Discrimination is the act of making decisions based solely on ones ethnicity. We have laws that prevent/preclude discrimination in the US, not racism. You can't legislate people's feelings but you can stop them from acting on them in ways that would hurt/harm others.

What was said on the bus was morally reprehensible( and I clearly disagree with it) but wasn't illegal. Granted they were saying their thoughts but where did you see evidence of discrimination?

I agree with you. Racism is still around.With all due respect Source, I think you're letting your personal opinion color your perception of the event. A stupid song isn't tantamount to lynching a Black Man. Those dude wouldn't dare say that to brother's face.

Post: #150

(03-10-2015 10:35 AM)TheWastelander Wrote:  Oklahoma isn't in the South, but point taken.

Geographically, no. Culturally, yes.

Just look at the Tulsa Race Riot.