Post: #51

(03-09-2015 09:34 PM)Wadsworth Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 09:24 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 09:21 PM)Wadsworth Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 09:20 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 09:13 PM)Wadsworth Wrote:  Just so we're clear, what exactly are social consequences?

Other people not wanting to be associated with you? People who are associated with you distancing themselves from you? Those are all voluntary social actions by people acting on their own prerogative.

I mean, imagine this were another frat that was mixed-ethnicity, and you found out that some of their white members were singing some racist chant on a chartered frat bus going to a frat event. A reasonable social consequence would be that the minority frat members pushing to dis-associate the frat from these guys, or expelling them from the frat. If you're going to be a reprehensible human being, there are going to be lots of people who don't want to be around you.

Then why is action on the part of university or state/federal governments necessary?

The frat is associated with the university? I didn't see anything about federal government involvement. If there is, that's crossing the line. I have no problem with the university controlling which organizations it wants to sponsor, fund, and facilitate on its campus. If you don't get sponsorship, it just means you don't get its support - there's no prohibition on you starting a non-affiliated organization. Nobody is stopping you from starting your own kkk chapter in the collegetown.

Playing devil's advocate here. Are those universities state or federal funded to any degree? If so, those are public funds and the universities are not rightly seen as private institutions imbued with the right to make these sort of decisions for themselves.

But more to the point, if you believe this then you evidently don't find your earlier argument persuasive. You either allow individuals freedom to speak and associate voluntarily and accept and embrace what comes of that, or you favor some level of coercion from some governing body. Just so we're clear coercion from a central authority isn't "social consequences."

The biggest problem with this isn't that it's censorious, it's that the censorship isn't evenly meted out. These are the same campuses where white people are castigated for being privileged.

Let's take this point by point. If the universities are purely private (ie. no state funding) then my point stands. If the national frat is a purely private (ie. no state funding), then again my point stands. Sure, there are "central governing bodies," but not in the sense that they are public to the taxpayer - more akin to corporate boards of directors.

If the universities are not purely private ie. State-funded universities, that doesn't mean they can't control what is expressed on their own behalf, or associated with them. What, you think a state university is required to let neo-nazis form a branch on their campus and is required to sponsor them? You think a state university has to sanction all forms of expression associated with it? Of course not. State universities have discretion. Constitutionally, all they must do is clear the loose hurdle of "being rationally related to a legitimate state interest." Not having the state-funded public university be associated with racism clears that hurdle. And that's if you classify the public university as a government institution. Remember, being a government funded institution is not the same as being a government institution. The local public library is a government funded institution - that doesn't prohibit it from not carrying porn on its shelves.

The only time when the speech of these frat boys is and ought to be protected is when they are facing legal consequences. They are not here. Nobody is arresting them, and no government authority is fining them.

Post: #52

Its obvious you don't give two shits about the fact that most racial crime in America is directed against whites. The fact you chose to jump into this thread to make a point about how whites are getting away with being racists just shows you hate white people.

Post: #53

(03-09-2015 09:38 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  Mikado, singing a racist song isn't a crime.

And suspending a fraternity chapter isn't a criminal punishment.

(03-09-2015 09:38 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  Killing a guy with hammers miles from where I used to live, and the people who do it admit it was because he was white, and the story gets no press, that is a crime. Spare me your outrage you anti white bigot. O, and by the way, it was a Muslim white.

I don't think anyone here has denied that the media shows an obvious agenda constantly hyping racism while downplaying reprehensible things done by black people, correct me if I'm wrong. Doesn't mean people can't be outraged about both this AND examples of black-on-white racism.

Post: #54

Mikado denied it. Thats why I made my point.

Post: #55

(03-09-2015 09:50 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  Mikado denied it. Thats why I made my point.

Give me the exact quote where I did this.

Post: #56

Mikado said this:

(03-09-2015 09:10 PM)mikado Wrote:  Ok medias do not portray racism fairly.

OK, they tend to forget some crimes made my black men, Muslims, or whatever you want that's mostly Non-White.

How does that excuse what the few white men that were busted commiting the same acts?

You can complain about the way that medias treat the information. However it doesn't mean any less that crimes commited by white men must be excused.

And using free speech and the right to say whatever you want in private does not make your ideas less nauseous if they are, effectively.

Doesn't sound like denial of anything to me.

Post: #57

(03-09-2015 09:44 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 09:34 PM)Wadsworth Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 09:24 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 09:21 PM)Wadsworth Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 09:20 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  Other people not wanting to be associated with you? People who are associated with you distancing themselves from you? Those are all voluntary social actions by people acting on their own prerogative.

I mean, imagine this were another frat that was mixed-ethnicity, and you found out that some of their white members were singing some racist chant on a chartered frat bus going to a frat event. A reasonable social consequence would be that the minority frat members pushing to dis-associate the frat from these guys, or expelling them from the frat. If you're going to be a reprehensible human being, there are going to be lots of people who don't want to be around you.

Then why is action on the part of university or state/federal governments necessary?

The frat is associated with the university? I didn't see anything about federal government involvement. If there is, that's crossing the line. I have no problem with the university controlling which organizations it wants to sponsor, fund, and facilitate on its campus. If you don't get sponsorship, it just means you don't get its support - there's no prohibition on you starting a non-affiliated organization. Nobody is stopping you from starting your own kkk chapter in the collegetown.

Playing devil's advocate here. Are those universities state or federal funded to any degree? If so, those are public funds and the universities are not rightly seen as private institutions imbued with the right to make these sort of decisions for themselves.

But more to the point, if you believe this then you evidently don't find your earlier argument persuasive. You either allow individuals freedom to speak and associate voluntarily and accept and embrace what comes of that, or you favor some level of coercion from some governing body. Just so we're clear coercion from a central authority isn't "social consequences."

The biggest problem with this isn't that it's censorious, it's that the censorship isn't evenly meted out. These are the same campuses where white people are castigated for being privileged.

Let's take this point by point. If the universities are purely private (ie. no state funding) then my point stands. If the national frat is a purely private (ie. no state funding), then again my point stands. Sure, there are "central governing bodies," but not in the sense that they are public to the taxpayer - more akin to corporate boards of directors.

If the universities are not purely private ie. State-funded universities, that doesn't mean they can't control what is expressed on their own behalf, or associated with them. What, you think a state university is required to let neo-nazis form a branch on their campus and is required to sponsor them? You think a state university has to sanction all forms of expression associated with it? Of course not. State universities have discretion. Constitutionally, all they must do is clear the loose hurdle of "being rationally related to a legitimate state interest." Not having the state-funded public university be associated with racism clears that hurdle. And that's if you classify the public university as a government institution. Remember, being a government funded institution is not the same as being a government institution. The local public library is a government funded institution - that doesn't prohibit it from not carrying porn on its shelves.

The only time when the speech of these frat boys is and ought to be protected is when they are facing legal consequences. They are not here. Nobody is arresting them, and no government authority is fining them.

You're making this more complicated than is required. We don't need to go very far down the amendments to the American constitution to find the answer; it's in the very first one. The government is not entitled to prohibit the exercise of speech of any kind. So long as the university receives public funding it should not move to censor individuals, however distasteful their speech, because that would constitute government-sponsored censorship.

If the university is purely private and is 100% dependent on private funding sources, then I agree, they have every right to do as they see fit, however incomprehensible and hypocritical.

Post: #58

"The race doesn't matter here. I am sure if these chants were directed against white men it still would have been the same result for the perpretators."

If this was a chant by a black fraternity it wouldn't even make the local news. Blacks are racist on camera all the time. In Ferguson they were on camera saying all white people are the devil shortly after a white was brutally killed with a hammer.

Post: #59

(03-09-2015 09:38 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  Spare me your outrage you anti white bigot.

LOL!!

The hamster is strong in this one.

Post: #60

If a black fraternity was taped saying white men should be hanged there would be zero repercussions.

Post: #61

As soon as I saw this pop up on my facebook feed, I knew I'd be reading this thread pretty much exactly as it has played out.

I see how some value can be derived from threads like this, but for the most part they're just bait that generate predictable diatribes from familiar voices.

50+ posts in and nothing really enlightening or funny. I know I could just choose not to read or chime in, but would like to leave my opinion of:

2/10 WNR

Post: #62

I just saw that this thread had over 1300 views. I'd suggest that people actually watch themselves over what they say. I'm withholding my opinion on the subject for other reasons, but yeah, pretty sure that there's going to be someone who looks at all this and develops ideas about the forum and community in general that may hurt in the long run.

Post: #63

(03-09-2015 09:44 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  State universities have discretion. Constitutionally, all they must do is clear the loose hurdle of "being rationally related to a legitimate state interest." Not having the state-funded public university be associated with racism clears that hurdle.

Usually on civil rights issues would-be censors need to pass the standard of strict scrutiny. There's case law out there saying universities can just go by the rational basis test?

Post: #64

I'm on a smartphone. I hate typyinh on it so done for now.

Post: #65

The same members who say "it was a joke" would be the same ones screaming "racism!" if I were to say "lets hang all white men tomorrow".... when saying such phrase in a joking manner.

Post: #66

I get where a lot of black men are trying to say on here....no black dude wants to hear songs about hanging niggers from a tree or them not being allowed a certain place. For me though, I have kinda gotten use to it. If I got pissed for every racist comment I heard then life would be just an angry blur. I know as black men when we hear this kind of stuff we tend to take it person even when it wasn't a direct attack in us individually.

And on the other hand, I get what other posters are trying to say. Free speech allows them to say whatever they want (including nigger) so a man shouldn't have to lose his job or something he cares deeply for over just words.

For those who feel they weren't in the wrong...
If these fraternity members directed their chants at a black men while riding by. Would your opinion on their punishment change?

Post: #67

(03-09-2015 08:18 PM)scorpion Wrote:  A few random thoughts on this:

This post isn't directed towards you. I can't change the way you think, I'm writing this because there are other people that might be ignorant to the facts.

Quote:[*]Yet another example of a man (or men) getting betrayed by a vindictive woman.

I like how somehow you find a way to make the woman the sole blame of this.
She is a small fry in this big picture. It could have been anyone to record this video.
The video could have been leaked as a joke, because college kids are so stupd

Quote:[*]Yet another example of smartphones absolutely destroying normal socialization.

Normal socialization??
Someone mentioned already.
But how is singing and patronizing a song about hanging black people normal socialization.
These kids are sick

Quote:[*]It's hilarious and pathetic to see people falling all over themselves and feigning horror and outrage at what a bunch of 19 year olds said on a private bus ride.

These kids aren't gonna be 19 forever.
They are more than likely well connected and have money to toss around. Frats like this don't let small fry kids in.
These kids probably have racist parent also.. they well continue to grow up with these same views..only they will more than likely impose there views on a wide audience.
You kill the cancer before it spreads

Quote:[*]It's incredibly obvious at this point that the media is intentionally manufacturing outrage over stories like this. Contrast the media outrage over this story with the silence over the mass rape of 1500 children by Muslim gangs in Rotherham. This is progressive logic: white men saying nigger on a bus is worse than Muslims raping 1500 children with the complicity of police.

You are stretching at two widely different stories.
You are right.. in the context..But the whole muslin this/that argument is getting played out.
Dont forget American history..Where white people hanged,killed, burned black people and threw parties and picnics to go watch.
White Americans took joy in dismembering blacks and sending the post cards to their family and friends.
Don't pretend like the media hasn't covered up multiple race crimes like hangings.. In THIS decade.

Quote:[*]Black fraternities regularly beat the shit out of their pledges and brand them with hot irons. The media never says a peep about this.

Black Frats DO NOT regularly beat their pledges. There are usually forms of hazing in all frats.
There are cases of both white and black fraternities having hazing allegations.. all the way up to hospitalization and death.
One notable case of this Is the FamU Marching band. Clearly.. that hasnt been covered up.. because you are aware of it.
Are you also aware they multiple members of the bang were charged and convicted with felonies?
Their crimes did not go unpunished

Quote:[*]This story is yet another fusillade in the SJW/progressive war on white fraternities. Again, ask yourself why the fuck the drunken singing of 19 year olds on a private bus ride is a story of national significance? The reason is because it serves the progressive agenda and furthers their interest of weakening and eventually banning white fraternities entirely.

Here you are simply finding a way to link SJW to this so that you can pass the blame to someone us.
These boys aren't just singing a song for shits and giggles.
Thats how they feel...They are racist.. there is no beating around that.




ITs amazing how many of you are letting this by and saying that its just a bunch of drunk kids having fun.
Just like.. a bunch of drunk sports fans can flip cars and start fires also...But if blacks in Ferguson do it.. its the beginning of a war.

I said already.. Im interested in how this thread will come out.
Im sure Tuth is in the background grubbing on popcorn right now.

Post: #68

I wouldn't. I grew up with blacks who joked about whitey. I have never screamed racism in my life unless it was to make a rhetorical point like in this thread.

Post: #69

(03-09-2015 09:56 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  If a black fraternity was taped saying white men should be hanged there would be zero repercussions.

Nah dude, I'm sure you'll raise hell over the issue until they get expelled, jailed, or worse.

Post: #70

(03-09-2015 09:56 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  If a black fraternity was taped saying white men should be hanged there would be zero repercussions.

When did this happen? It hasn't
Its a hypothetical idea you thought up in your ignorant head as a way to pass the blame to someone else.

(03-09-2015 07:05 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  If there was proof they were actively discriminating/barring other ethnicities from membership then I'd think the punishment was ok. But this is just another example of how you can do something while not technically illegally but this still be convicted in the court of public opinion.

Some of you here are clearly racist..Some of you here may just be ignorant.
But clearly you are not aware of the history of this country.
The words they say.. imply..that they would discriminate.

These boys didn't just think of this song spur of the moment. This song didn't just pop up as a joke.
They learned this from somewhere..They already harbored these feelings.
Its probably not the first time they have said things like this. This isn't an isolated case.
ITs like you are trying to say that racism doesn't exist.

Post: #71

What makes me sick the most in these threads, is that we're all buddy buddy when we're talking about getting pussy or deriding some lunatic feminist.

But as soon as the conversation turns to race, we're at each others throats...

Right where the powers at be want us.

G

Post: #72

When Black Americans see a video like this.
They don't think.."haha a couple drunk college kids are acting stupid"

* I'm going completely to the right here.

When Black Americans see videos and here songs like this.
It drums ups the past images like




Yes..This isn't happening in America...But the ideologies haven't just died out.
They keep getting passed down until you have college kids about to join the work force joking about hanging niggers from trees.
As far as I know.. my calendar says 2015

Clearly..not everyone wants to step into the times though

Post: #73

(03-09-2015 10:10 PM)Geomann180 Wrote:  What makes me sick the most in these threads, is that we're all buddy buddy when we're talking about getting pussy or deriding some lunatic feminist.

But as soon as the conversation turns to race, we're at each others throats...

Right where the powers at be want us.

G

Post: #74

(03-09-2015 10:14 PM)Avon Barksdale Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 10:10 PM)Geomann180 Wrote:  What makes me sick the most in these threads, is that we're all buddy buddy when we're talking about getting pussy or deriding some lunatic feminist.

But as soon as the conversation turns to race, we're at each others throats...

Right where the powers at be want us.

G

Yea.. we are all cool, because everyone can sit behind their computer desk.
There is no threat to one another.
Bu In person..In some places, in some situations... Different races,clearly feel threatened by one another

Post: #75

(03-09-2015 10:10 PM)Geomann180 Wrote:  What makes me sick the most in these threads, is that we're all buddy buddy when we're talking about getting pussy or deriding some lunatic feminist.

But as soon as the conversation turns to race, we're at each others throats...

Right where the powers at be want us.

G

I don't really see this as a divide and conquer sort of thing. Everyone here agrees that what these kids said was wrong. What isn't agreed upon is what consequences are merited, and from that has been a healthy discussion, although it might spiral if people start to succumb to emotion. Most people are not going to change their views, so the best we can really do is to put them out there, and rationally poke holes in what is said. As long as that continues there should be no issues.