(01-27-2015 02:51 PM)Dantes Wrote: These stories are important to hear about.
There must have been warning signs prior to the affair. Can you speak more about this and also about your inner game during marriage. It is an important aspect of Game that isn't covered enough.
Is she American?
Best of luck
She's a typical American mutt. My inner game really deteriorated during the marriage. Like the other commenters were saying, maybe it wasn't all that good to begin with, but it got worse anyway. I ceded too much in our relationship and allowed her to run things, for example and only one of many examples - she took control of the interior decor of our house.
Yes there were warning signs, but they were subtle. They were not the classic ones like suddenly dressing up sexy, or always working late. But her attitude towards me would go from hot to cold to hot and back to cold again, increasing more distance between us. There were other little things, too - that don't mean anything in isolation, but when put together in 20/20 hindsight, it all comes together. In truth, the BIGGEST warning sign was my gut instinct. I KNEW something was off. Something wasn't right at all. Something changed.
(01-27-2015 03:18 PM)The Father Wrote: Your story sounds eerily familiar to mine. Don't feel bad about making a mistake, and ignore what other posters have said that you don't really know game: Your entire biology is constructed to be susceptible to falling for a woman, it is entirely chemical. It's natures way of tricking you into perpetuating the species. Even knowing all the risks, when you meet one who acts different, you WANT to believe it is real. Remember, this is what women excel at! You think the bible story about Adam and Eve is a real story about the origins of earth?? You think the fact that the woman deceives the man tricks/persuades him into doing something he knows he shouldn't do and which causes him untold pain is a coincidence? It is the wisdom of the ancients! Mankind knew 2,000 years ago the nature of women, and male-female relationships! The nature of women is to fool men into thinking good things about them, to impregnate them and to provide resources for their offspring, all the while the female is thinking about (and sometimes fucking!) other males. Remember, most things in life have symmetry: The most pleasure you can get from life often comes from a female. And accordingly, the worst damage to your life likewise often comes from the same place!
Nonetheless, you got out of this relatively unscathed. And considering the anti-male family court laws our society has, that is remarkable! CONGRATULATIONS!
It's easy to be down on your wife but remember - you picked her. You now have a PhD in how NOT to pick a wife. You'll use better judgment next time. So will I. Like you, I would like a REAL wife, and kids. Will I ever have it in this messed up society? Doubtful. But like alchemists of old, the prize is alluring enough that I am not embarrassed to say i'll keep trying. The difference is, I have become strong enough and happy enough on my own to be COMPLETELY content if I never find that unicorn. That is what you must do: realize that a good woman is not a paradise; it's just trading one set of problems (loneliness, a craving for a mate) for another (the myriad, mindless, bullshit issues that come with even the hottest, best woman on earth!).
Your life starts anew now. But your days aren't endless. MAKE EVERY NEW DAY COUNT!
The Father, that is a great post. It's impossible to state any of this any better.
(01-27-2015 03:46 PM)NKTexas Wrote: I ceded too much in our relationship and allowed her to run things, for example and only one of many examples - she took control of the interior decor of our house.
You're beating yourself up over THAT?? Irrespective of what some of the younger or less experienced posters here may say, being seen as controlling to your woman is a quick way to get divorced. DOMINANT, yes - controlling, no. And being dominant means taking charge of the BIG things in your life - finances, etc. But you HAVE to give them some small area of control, or you demoralize them and are seen as a tyrant. It's like how kids get SOME say in their life: What color of PJs they want to wear to bed or what stuffed animal they take in the car. You have to keep them engaged. Well as Schopenhauer observed, women have a mentality somewhere between children and adult males. You need to give them SOMETHING to make them feel they matter; interior decoration is a perfect thing.
Already lots of posts to go through in this thread, and thanks everyone for your input - even the most harshest feedback is appreciated. I mean that.
Couple points of clarification:
- I'm not saying I want to get married again any time soon. All I'm saying is that I won't rule it out. My priority is myself, and my inner game, and that will be so for a long time. If I don't meet anyone I don't consider worthy of marriage (or just having kids with sans marriage), then I don't get married or have kids. And I'm going to be fine with that.
- I don't deny that I am at least partially responsible for where I am now. *I* picked her, *I* chose to marry her, *I* ceded too much to our relationship. I am not responsible for her affair, however - that was HER choice that only benefited herself. Now I am making my choice that only benefits myself. I made a big mistake, and I'm gonna own it.
- My divorce is not yet final. But I did have a long conversation with my attorney and he laid down the facts with me. No child support, no alimony, and no splitting my retirement. Even if she contests the divorce, there's nothing she can do to stop the divorce or the sale of the house. All she can do is drag it out for several more months. But it will end the same way, regardless. And yes, I'm relatively lucky compared to other divorced dads who get screwed in the family courts, but divorce ain't cheap.
(01-27-2015 03:55 PM)The Father Wrote: You need to give them SOMETHING to make them feel they matter; interior decoration is a perfect thing.
While I like your posts and I identify with your mindset and experience, what I said about interior decor is just one example. There are many others, and I don't feel like hashing them all out. Let's just say she was a control freak about it and my opinion didn't matter.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2015 04:00 PM by CleanSlate.)
(01-27-2015 03:46 PM)NKTexas Wrote: Yes there were warning signs, but they were subtle. They were not the classic ones like suddenly dressing up sexy, or always working late.
(01-27-2015 03:55 PM)The Father Wrote: You need to give them SOMETHING to make them feel they matter; interior decoration is a perfect thing.
While I like your posts and I identify with your mindset and experience, what I said about interior decor is just one example. There are many others, and I don't feel like hashing them all out. Let's just say she was a control freak about it and my opinion didn't matter.
Got it. THAT is bad! Did that develop after you were married or did you see signs?
01-27-2015 04:03 PM
vinman
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(01-27-2015 04:00 PM)jariel Wrote: Don't Misread A Girl's Actions /thread-41564.html
How the fuck did I miss this gem? I cut a paste a lot of good stuff from the forum to send to guys, and direct them to ROK. When they're ready I tell them about the forum. Thanks for the link.
"Feminism is a trade union for ugly women"- Peregrine
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2015 04:13 PM by vinman.)
01-27-2015 04:11 PM
CleanSlate
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(01-27-2015 03:46 PM)NKTexas Wrote: Yes there were warning signs, but they were subtle. They were not the classic ones like suddenly dressing up sexy, or always working late.
Thanks jariel! Good read, and I'll reread a few times so it sinks in. I'm at a vulnerable time in my life coming out of a marriage, so this is great to be aware of.
(01-27-2015 03:39 PM)Travesty444 Wrote: No there is shame he was a member here and knew the routine. His actions are the primary reason why bitches act like they do. He's not a victim. He is the perpetrator.
Hardly. Our family court laws are the primary reason women act like they do, that and affirmative action and other hand-outs that take money from men and literally GIVE it to women. I suppose if you really wanted to find a cause, you could go back to women getting the vote. THAT was the mistake from which all other mistakes proceed!
Whenever there's a power imbalance in a relationship it's a situation ripe for exploitation. And when it comes to marriage these days, men are in a very weak negotiating position after they've signed the marriage contract. Having a marriage go well in modern America relies far too much on the idea that women will act in good faith.
Economist's have long understood that creating incentives for certain behaviors results in more of that behavior. Society has set up all kinds of incentives, and removed the disincentives, for women to back out of their marriages. The laws have changed, the culture has changed, the social stigma of being a divorced single mother is all but absent. Society won't even admit anymore that children growing up in single-mother households are worse off despite plenty of statistical evidence showing otherwise.
We give them all the tools to destroy their marriages and even hand them a script to rationalize it all away with. Is it any wonder it's all so fucked up.
When you look at the fact that women file close to 70% of the divorces in this country and get custody around 85% of the time, it's honestly a wonder that men are still getting married at all. Those are terrible odds.
I'm betting almost every man in America has a father, brother, or friend has gone through the divorce ringer. And yet the majority of those same guys will still go on to take the plunge themselves.
If marriage were truly a rational decision for men the institution would have died out long ago. As The Father has pointed out, nature compels men against reason and logic to convince themselves that "She's different."
(01-27-2015 02:46 PM)NKTexas Wrote: I mean, I knew that marriage was a raw deal - but only intellectually. It seems that I had to really experience it for myself, to really understand what marriage - at least with the wrong person - is like. Being single and alone is better than being married and miserable.
I'm 38, only rarely seriously dated, and am brand new to Game.
If you ever feel like telling yourself, "If only I had stayed single and learned Game, then I'd be swimming in hotties right now!", don't. Because it's much more likely you'd have ended up exactly like me.
Like you, I read Roosh and other gaming sites, but I was too scared to actually try learning Game. I was trapped in that discussion of whether making drastic changes to my personality would be either "obvious, and therefore useless" or "not-obvious, but therefore fake". The correct answer, which I wish I had known 20 years ago, is that all serious personality changes begin with the mantra: "Fake the personality change, so you can consistently practice the personality change. And eventually you'll be performing that personality change often and skillfully enough that you'll attract a lot of friendly believers. To those friendly believers, how you behave is Who You Really Are. And anyone who disagrees isn't friendly."
We both have to keep our eyes on the prize, on our vision of what we want our happy future to look like, and make sure we spend everyday building towards that vision.
I went through a divorce similar but not exactly the same. I actually went out traveled, dated foreign women, re-learned game, and improved myself more, and eventually I re-married a foreign woman. My life is amazing now. We have a kid as well and while the kid part of it is challenging, I would not take anything back. I am so happy with my wife and the experiences abroad, that I spend alot of time helping others date outside the US and writing about it.
Everyone here knows my story and you can read part of it in my dating guide in my signature at the top (intro section), so I won't belabor it too much, but do not feel as if marriage sucks or all women are bitches. If you still want a family someday, do not stop that pursuit. It is normal and natural as a man to run a family. Like the Father said, you now have a PhD in what not to pick in women. So like WIA said, grab your passport and hit the road young man. Once you are ready to get your goals ironed out towards a family, you will be able to put that strategy together and things should fall in place like they are supposed to.
For now, enjoy the new freedom and always remember that in the midst of chaos (I'm talking about the divorce), there is ALWAYS opportunity. Opportunities to grow and be blessed. There is a shit ton of stuff to read and catch up on, but take your time. You will be fine and we are here and got your back.
Again welcome back! Roosh should buy you a beer on our behalf and give you a pat on the back of us all when he comes back to DC again. lol
(01-27-2015 03:55 PM)The Father Wrote: You need to give them SOMETHING to make them feel they matter; interior decoration is a perfect thing.
While I like your posts and I identify with your mindset and experience, what I said about interior decor is just one example. There are many others, and I don't feel like hashing them all out. Let's just say she was a control freak about it and my opinion didn't matter.
The post makes no sense... no woman can be a control freak unless you allow her to be. This bitch even brought a kid with her to the relationship and you still allowed her to gain control when all you could have said to shut her down is "you have a fucking kid, what are you complaining about??"
Relationships = War for your Happiness
Women will say anything to make you surrender how you feel and trivialize what you value. Always be willing to take the Loss, and if they're not willing to walk out the door then tell them to STFU.
two scoops
two genders
two terms
01-27-2015 04:45 PM
The following 2 users Like Barron's post:2 users Like Barron's post KofiKingston, DrCotard
You've already received a lot of great advice, but the problem is that you were already on RVF in 2008 and still made all the mistakes, so just getting more great advice and reading more red pill material online now doesn't guarantee success.
What you need, based on my experience, is not just understanding, but feeling that your life from now is starting to improve. You need a quick win that will put you on the right path and keep you motivated to work hard and change your life.
Like WIA already recommended, buy a ticket and go somewhere for a couple of weeks and get a bunch of easy lays.
If you are ok with Asian girls, just fly to the Philippines starting in Manila, than either Cebu or one of the resorts. Just read the datasheets here, you'll find all the necessary information you need. If you don't like Asian girls, you can choose DR, Colombia, Brazil or maybe an Eastern European country, but the level of game required there is more advanced compared to SEA. Latin America and Eastern Europe are probably not the best options for a man still recovering from a recent divorce.
You are the one to judge your current level of game and decide what country works best for you, but the most important thing is to take that trip.
01-27-2015 05:04 PM
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(01-27-2015 05:04 PM)Brodiaga Wrote: What you need, based on my experience, is not just understanding, but feeling that your life from now is starting to improve. You need a quick win that will put you on the right path and keep you motivated to work hard and change your life.
....
You are the one to judge your current level of game and decide what country works best for you, but the most important thing is to take that trip.
Brodiaga, to be honest, I don't feel like I need to pick up a few quick wins to make me feel like my life is improving. You know why? Leaving my broken marriage... THAT is a win for me. A BIG win. Even though it is early, I feel like my life is so much better now. Huge weight off my shoulders.
As for travel, yes I will take multiple trips - both domestic and international. However, I have some personal concerns about doing international trips to do game. Thinking I should start a separate thread on that.
01-27-2015 05:53 PM
SlickyBoy
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Remember though - until that divorce is final he is still not out of the woods. All it could take is one meeting with a crafty lawyer to get her to dig her heels in deeper. So for now, don't stop running!
Also remember next time (if there is a next time) that it isn't where one gets married, it's where one gets divorced. Regardless it's come to the point where if you really want kids, just go knock up some broad, dump her before she becomes a "common law" wife then and start writing child support checks. It'll be cheaper than risking alimony and it protects your assets from the scourge of divorce proceedings since you were never married.
Sucks a lot, but this is where we are in the US and most of the western world nowadays. Got to protect yourself.
You came out of the experience relatively unharmed and can count yourself lucky.
Of course - classic errors done, but you may know that by now.
I would suggest you read up on Rational Male - buy the book in addition to brushing up on Game and having fun.
Divorce porn for men is: "Drink, Party & Fuck"
Quote:Yes there were warning signs, but they were subtle. They were not the classic ones like suddenly dressing up sexy, or always working late. But her attitude towards me would go from hot to cold to hot and back to cold again, increasing more distance between us. There were other little things, too - that don't mean anything in isolation, but when put together in 20/20 hindsight, it all comes together. In truth, the BIGGEST warning sign was my gut instinct. I KNEW something was off. Something wasn't right at all. Something changed.
Your instincts were correct, but there are massive warning signs.
First warning sign is her single motherhood status - we call it pre-emptive cuckoldry where a woman has decide to have the hot Alpha spawn and gets a nice guy to pay and raise the child. Also her Alpha riding days were not really over - I can bet that many guys here just be getting to know her for a few hours could give you ample reasons to avoid that Titanic.
Your gut knew - and if you had done some Red Pill reading and Game then then your mind would have known too.
But again - you were lucky, you are young. You can bang 19 year olds relatively easy in EE or South America. Relax, enjoy and have fun.
(01-27-2015 03:38 PM)ChazKGB Wrote: His ex will call him in 3-6 month after the divorce months crying about how she made a huge mistake and she loves him.
Watch out for such behavior. It might be:
a) Need for sexual validation
b) To prove to HERself that she is not a bad woman, some hamster gymnastics that the hurt person forgave her....
c) To muddy the waters and get an advantage in court if you touch her again (a judge might say you did emotional damage to her for .....)
d) Sociopaths do crazy things out of revenge after YOU DUMP them.
Start learning again. To get your mind busy and away from her.
You did a mistake. But learn and try not to ever do it again.
Best of luck
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2015 07:38 PM by Michael P.)
01-27-2015 07:35 PM
The following 3 users Like Michael P's post:3 users Like Michael P's post The Father, jariel, Sp5
(01-27-2015 02:51 PM)Dantes Wrote: These stories are important to hear about.
There must have been warning signs prior to the affair. Can you speak more about this and also about your inner game during marriage. It is an important aspect of Game that isn't covered enough.
Is she American?
Best of luck
She's a typical American mutt. My inner game really deteriorated during the marriage. Like the other commenters were saying, maybe it wasn't all that good to begin with, but it got worse anyway. I ceded too much in our relationship and allowed her to run things, for example and only one of many examples - she took control of the interior decor of our house.
Yes there were warning signs, but they were subtle. They were not the classic ones like suddenly dressing up sexy, or always working late. But her attitude towards me would go from hot to cold to hot and back to cold again, increasing more distance between us. There were other little things, too - that don't mean anything in isolation, but when put together in 20/20 hindsight, it all comes together. In truth, the BIGGEST warning sign was my gut instinct. I KNEW something was off. Something wasn't right at all. Something changed.
Always follow your gut, it will seldom let you down. The effect of infidelity by a long term spouse is way different than that of a girlfriend, it tends to kill men, men having five times the suicide rate of women after/during divorce.
Sometimes your subconcious mind will twig somethings off and manifest itself in physical conditions like insomnia, acid reflux, rashes etc...Which all seem to disappear after she leaves . My gut let me know and I ignored it, but then it had been 24 years since the last time it had to deal with infidelity. I don't regret my marriage, the vast majority of it was about as good as it gets, only the last six months of it were bad, life's good, my kids are great. One just has to rebuild their lives and go younger, tighter, hotter...
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2015 07:59 PM by lovejoy.)
01-27-2015 07:48 PM
The following 2 users Like lovejoy's post:2 users Like lovejoy's post KofiKingston, Sp5
aphelion
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28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’
31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”
(01-27-2015 02:46 PM)NKTexas Wrote: Before I can ever consider marriage again, my inner game MUST be rock solid and indestructible. I am not at that point yet. Nowhere near that point. I don't know how long that will take, maybe a couple years, or maybe an entire lifetime.
And IF I decide I'm ready to marry again, I will only consider women of the same ethnic background as myself, and who values family above all else. It will be a traditional marriage as opposed to a Westernized love marriage.
Well put, and thank you to everyone both here and at my previous hangouts for letting me realize that before I got married.
I agree wholeheartedly with that point. From personal experience I'll say that there's another benefit of getting your game straightened out: The law of attraction means you will get exponential benefits.
Once you become a leader and control yourself rather than letting women control you, you will find that submissive feminine traditional women will begin gravitating towards you while the sloots and gold diggers will instinctively sense that you're not an easy mark and look elsewhere.
But none of that is possible when you are even the slightest bit dependent on external validation for your ego. If you are then it's a string that people can use to control you like a puppet.
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. My gut let me know and I ignored it, but then it had been 24 years since the last time it had to deal with infidelity. I don't regret my marriage, the vast majority of it was about as good as it gets, only the last six months of it were bad, life's good, my kids are great. One just has to rebuild their lives and go younger, tighter, hotter...
