Post: #1

TL; Dr: I am on a semi- decent track in the U.S., but i think about quitting the West (and thus losing my spot in the semi-decent track) and moving to Thailand all the time. I would like your opinion on why this might be a stupid move.


-I'm a late-twenties guy in the U.S.
-I have an ok career track: I make a little less than $60k per year and there are decent long-term prospects.
- I love my job 50% of the time, I hate it the other 50%.
-I have two years of thai living expenses saved up (and, I save an extra year worth of thai living expenses every year i stay in the U.S.)
-I would like to not work for a while. I want to just read, lift weights, bang chicks, sleep decent hours and eat good food.
-I have a girlfriend right now, but I hope I never marry anyone. Right now, I really don't want the "normal" western goals (marriage, family, career advancement, etc), just read, lift, bang, sleep, eat.
-I'm drawn to thailand by the low cost of living, the good food, the easy lays, and the freedom.

Here are the risk factors I see:
(1) fucking up my career- basically, I worry that i will wake up after a year or two in thailand and I realize I want to go back to the West, but now I've fallen off the career ladder. My industry is really conservative so it'd be tough to get back in after going expat.
(2) related to point (1), by fucking up the career, I feel like I'd jeopardize my chances at having a normal, conventional family life if I ever ended up wanting that (suburbs, house, wife, kids, etc)
(3) related to (1), maybe it is dumb to spend down my (humble) net worth when I've been fortunate enough to start building wealth. Again, I'm worried ill wake up as a 35-year or 45-year old man and say "what the hell was I thinking?"

On the other hand, I feel like I should not wait, because:
(1) the cost of living spread between the U.S. and Thailand might narrow (thailand and such is getting more expensive, so I feel like low-cost SEA won't be there if I wait too long).
(2) life is really short
(3) I worry that I might get stuck (fall in love like an idiot) with a western girl the longer I stay in the west (whether my current gf or some other girl sooner or later)
(4) I look at the 50-year old guys that did the "normal life" track and I think they're crazy for going through all the s when if they didn't buy the his, marry the girl, have the kids and buy the boat, they could have been free. Instead, they make $200k a year, but they NEED to go to work tomorrow, they NEED to smile when the client yells at them, etc.

What angle am I missing in this analysis?

Post: #2

Just a couple questions pop in mind.

1) Can you work remotely?
2) Can you use your skills as a freelancer? In other words, if you are an engineer can you do freelance engineering projects?
3) Any chance you can arrange a sabbatical from work? Even though you are sort of young to be asking for this.
4) What do you do? If you can tell us, maybe guys with your background can give you better insight on how to re-integrate back into to work when you are done.

Good luck.

Post: #3

(01-09-2015 12:23 AM)GetFree11 Wrote:  Here are the risk factors I see:
(1) fucking up my career- basically, I worry that i will wake up after a year or two in thailand and I realize I want to go back to the West, but now I've fallen off the career ladder. My industry is really conservative so it'd be tough to get back in after going expat.
(2) related to point (1), by fucking up the career, I feel like I'd jeopardize my chances at having a normal, conventional family life if I ever ended up wanting that (suburbs, house, wife, kids, etc)
(3) related to (1), maybe it is dumb to spend down my (humble) net worth when I've been fortunate enough to start building wealth. Again, I'm worried ill wake up as a 35-year or 45-year old man and say "what the hell was I thinking?"

On the other hand, I feel like I should not wait, because:
(1) the cost of living spread between the U.S. and Thailand might narrow (thailand and such is getting more expensive, so I feel like low-cost SEA won't be there if I wait too long).
(2) life is really short
(3) I worry that I might get stuck (fall in love like an idiot) with a western girl the longer I stay in the west (whether my current gf or some other girl sooner or later)
(4) I look at the 50-year old guys that did the "normal life" track and I think they're crazy for going through all the s when if they didn't buy the his, marry the girl, have the kids and buy the boat, they could have been free. Instead, they make $200k a year, but they NEED to go to work tomorrow, they NEED to smile when the client yells at them, etc.

I can't really answer your question with any practical advice, i just wanted to add that this conflict and these kinds of questions have recently come to the forefront of my thoughts; it's an inner-battle that i can't be certain of.. it feels like the age-old 'grass is always greener' argument.

No matter what i choose, i will always be left wondering what the other life could have offered.. as a result of my hesitation i find myself seemingly trapped in a state of indecision and stagnation, which is the worst place a man can find himself.

I'm in my mid-twenties, a bit younger then yourself.. but as time goes on im beginning to understand that we seek to make perfect decisions, or at the very least ones that mitigate negative consequences the most. But it seems with some decisions such as this one, you WILL give up a particular lifestyle for another.. for better or worse and you will only really know if it was the right choice after you've lived it.

Post: #4

With nice weather, beaches and cheap prices, it sure looks like a great place to live.

But Thai people would die to immigrate to western countries, whereas I don't see many westerners wanting to live there.
(I also don't see people immigrating from northern Europe. that place is really expensive.)

Why is that?

Personally, I'd rather struggle in big cities in states than throw a towel at early stage for the sake of low cost of living and women.

Post: #5

(01-09-2015 04:53 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  With nice weather, beaches and cheap prices, it sure looks like a great place to live.

But Thai people would die to immigrate to western countries, whereas I don't see many westerners wanting to live there.
(I also don't see people immigrating from northern Europe. that place is really expensive.)

Why is that?

Personally, I'd rather struggle in big cities in states than throw a towel at early stage for the sake of low cost of living and women.

Have you ever been to Thailand? This isn't true at all.

Post: #6

(01-09-2015 04:53 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  But Thai people would die to immigrate to western countries, whereas I don't see many westerners wanting to live there.
(I also don't see people immigrating from northern Europe. that place is really expensive.)

Most Thais who immigrate to western countries do it for the better opportunities to earn money in order to support their family and to improve their own lives. From what I have heared so far even many of these people come back to Thailand eventually or atleast wish to do so.

Then I know many students who study abroad. They prefer the easy and fun student life and move there as they like the western culture. University time is much more fun in western countries but I doubt that most of them will still be happy once they have to work and be surrounded by stressed and moody people.

Talking about Thais who can afford a comfortable live at home (and most Thais are comfortable with less money then you would expect) I dont know many who want to live in the western world. They like to go their for taking pictures of snow and famous buidling, but eventually everybody misses their food, sabai sabai lifestyle and the Family.

Now as a foreigner you have it much easier to earn decent money in Thailand so there is really no need to stay in a place where you are not happy.

Post: #7

The way I see it is that, you are pursuing instant gratification... Eventually it will become tiresome and the good food and girls will soon lose their novelty value.

When you reach that point, you will be a few years older, you'll most likely have a lot less money and your career prospects will have diminished significantly.

Your ability to make money and grow your career experience in Thailand will realistically be zilch; for that reason I think it's a place you only want to go for short periods of time.

I wouldn't do it, personally. Not until you've grown more, saved more money and built a more self-sustainable position for yourself.

Post: #8

(01-09-2015 05:47 AM)libertad1312 Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 04:53 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  But Thai people would die to immigrate to western countries, whereas I don't see many westerners wanting to live there.
(I also don't see people immigrating from northern Europe. that place is really expensive.)

Talking about Thais who can afford a comfortable live at home (and most Thais are comfortable with less money then you would expect) I dont know many who want to live in the western world. They like to go their for taking pictures of snow and famous buidling, but eventually everybody misses their food, sabai sabai lifestyle and the Family.

This. If official statistics are to believed, the average Thai dude in Chiang Mai is making less than $500 a month.

But I swear to god, that affords them a better lifestyle than college grads making $40,000 a year back in the U.S.

They eat out 3x a day. They drink and party almost every night. They usually have a girlfriend 2-3 points hotter than them.

How many young American guys can claim the same?

Post: #9

Look at the old guys that you work with. Do you want to be them? If the answer is no then quit and make the move.

If you're smart and hardworking you'll make it work financially.

Life is about risk taking. Accumulating experiences is much more satisfying than accumulating money and possessions.

Post: #10

I wouldn't say look at the old guys that you work with.
That can be misleading.
A job is a way to get money, it doesn't define you.
If someone has a crappy life, it is almost always because they have an inner game deficit, and don't take care of their own problems or work on their own interests, not because they have a certain job.

That said, go ahead and do it.

But two recommendations:

1. Make sure you have at least 3, and preferably 6 months of US living expenses as an emergency fund that you never touch and only use for your return, that way you can start back up in the USA.

2. Make sure you can maintain some contact with your former coworkers and supervisors, and have at least a credible sounding presentation of what you're doing on your CV. Even if you are doing hookers and blow on a beach in Thailand...concoct some story for LinkedIn that makes it sound like you were a travel consultant for resorts or an emerging markets specialist.

Do the above two, and if Thailand doesn't turn into a long term thing, you will be able to come back to the USA without suffering any negative consequences, and with the benefit of a whole new set of experiences.

Post: #11

I think it's a bad move. What's this two years expenses? 20-25k? That is peanuts in the grand scheme (no insult meant) and before you know it will be gone. Focus on getting your career to a point where you can take off 8-10 weeks a year to travel and do what you want all while making decent money, enjoying your life in america, and building a professional reputation in the real world.

You think every young man in the west is unhappy and wants to move to Chiang mai ? Of course not. Figure out how to be happy with what you got while striving to make more money and improve your lot in life each and every year. Take a break from reading so much manosphere stuff if doing so is making you miserable in your own home and country.

Post: #12

I was in a fairly similar position to you, and took a fairly similar action.

As a result I went from misery to being reasonably happy. Take that as you will.

Post: #13

You hate your job 50% of the time and you want the following: -I would like to not work for a while. I want to just read, lift weights, bang chicks, sleep decent hours and eat good food.


Not sure why you aren't in Thailand already. I move here 2 years ago without a plan and 3 years of savings in the bank. Best thing I ever did in my whole life.

Post: #14

(01-09-2015 12:23 AM)GetFree11 Wrote:  What angle am I missing in this analysis?

I think you may be missing a middle-ground way to approach this. Work on developing a side-gig source of income which can be worked remotely or turned over to an employee to run for you.

Meanwhile, take a trip to Thailand as soon as you can get 30+ days of vacation lined up. See if you really like it. And most people will go batshit crazy with only a life of "just read, lift, bang, sleep, eat".

You don't mention ever having been to Thailand before, and it would probably be a mistake to move there based upon second hand experiences. I took a trip to Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, and Laos with an open mind, having never been to any of them before. Everyone's mileage varies, but Vietnam is by far my favorite of those countries.

Post: #15

Good questions, similar to mine actually, and I'm interested in responses. That said...

I always chuckle at "easy lays". There are no easy lays. Maybe skinnier women.

Even Roosh, who's obviously written extensively on the subject of bedding women in different cultures, wrote a post about it.

The Dirty Truth About Traveling To Meet Women

Post: #16

I would recommend that you do a scouting trip for 4-8 weeks to see how you would like it.

Male sure that during this scouting trip you do everything you would do if you were living there full-time, such as living in a proper house, reading, lifting etc... and then judge if you think you will get bored of it.

Post: #17

A little info from afarangabroad

http://afarangabroad.com/2014/12/living-...month.html
http://afarangabroad.com/2014/04/living-...-1000.html

Post: #18

I think this might be one of those things that keep nagging at you until you do it.

I changed career paths 4 times. Sure, it can be difficult but that doesn't mean it can't be rewarding.

I would say have more faith in yourself.

It sounds like you have years to redevelop your skill set into something that you could go back to the states and get a good job in.

Is it better to do it and learn from this experience or sit safely in your cubicle always wondering?

I wouldn't wait two years to figure out what your next move if you do go to Thailand. I would have a plan of action for how I will generate money prior to leaving.

Post: #19

(01-09-2015 05:06 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 04:53 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  With nice weather, beaches and cheap prices, it sure looks like a great place to live.

But Thai people would die to immigrate to western countries, whereas I don't see many westerners wanting to live there.
(I also don't see people immigrating from northern Europe. that place is really expensive.)

Why is that?

Personally, I'd rather struggle in big cities in states than throw a towel at early stage for the sake of low cost of living and women.

Have you ever been to Thailand? This isn't true at all.

Actually his statement is MOSTLY true. But that applies to most countries as well. Most westerners have no/little desire to be an expat in a non western country and a large % of people from second or third world countries wish to immigrate to the west simply for economic opportunities is certainly greater than the % of westerners that immigrate to non 1st world countries. So you can only yell at him for not using the words many, most, some, etc. But his meaning is absolutely true by the %'s involve.

Remember we are talking % here NOT absolute numbers.

Quote:They eat out 3x a day. They drink and party almost every night. They usually have a girlfriend 2-3 points hotter than them.

Maybe true , maybe NOT. It is very subjective. I once dated a Lugansk girl in Kiev who constantly complained about high cost in Kiev( back then Kiev was cheap) and how Lugansk is better because one can eat out everyday, pay a fw bucks to get nails done, etc. I wonder what she would think today living in Lugansk with her walls blown up. I also thought at the time Lugansk looked like it wasn't renovated since Stalin was in charge. Oh yeah and the food sucked!

Sure many will say they like Thai food. I don't( live a few blocks from Brooklyns China town that includes Thai, Korean, and Vietnamese food)...so it is subjective since I am a meat and potato guy.

Applebees for example I will say with absolute certainty is better than any restaurant I ever ate at in UA. I dare anyone to say otherwise lol.

If you think eating cheap food from food stalls everyday and drinking alcohol in a club every night of the week is the ideal lifestyle..then sure go for it. But if you actually like the western lifestyle of comfort , then be aware USA is the cheapest for that.

But plenty of guys are also happy making 100k, having a clean renovated flat with 24/7 electricity and eating out once a week having a nice New York Steak and real Brooklyn Pizza( not that shitty tasting pizza served in the rest of the world) and consider that the ideal life atm. Plus they can still get a GF a point or 2 above them because of their personality and success.

As a former expat I learned that for many there is a limit to the expat dream. That explains why most come back at some point.

Personally I wouldn't go OP without a way to come back since it seems your desire isn't actually based on experience, just fantasy. When I left I was actually sent on a mission from my job(State dept-UN) so I had a way back guaranteed . I then stayed longer knowing I had a 85% chance to return to my job with the same seniority , etc(as long as I didn't become a criminal).

If you are in a conservative type job like engineering, Finance , accounting maybe you can get a transfer overseas? Those jobs actually are the ones that get sent over more often than anyone else.

But to pick a country you have little interest in simply because it is cheap is meh! Go to Detroit a few years if you want cheap living! You can eat out often and go work out cheaply. Library is free!

Post: #20

(01-09-2015 09:21 AM)christpuncher Wrote:  I think it's a bad move. What's this two years expenses? 20-25k? That is peanuts in the grand scheme (no insult meant) and before you know it will be gone. Focus on getting your career to a point where you can take off 8-10 weeks a year to travel and do what you want all while making decent money, enjoying your life in america, and building a professional reputation in the real world.

You think every young man in the west is unhappy and wants to move to Chiang mai ? Of course not. Figure out how to be happy with what you got while striving to make more money and improve your lot in life each and every year. Take a break from reading so much manosphere stuff if doing so is making you miserable in your own home and country.

Fine if you work in the oil and gas industry or something similar, but I don't know anybody who has a full time office job in the US and can take 8-10 weeks off every year even in small 1-2 week increments, never mind taking the entire vacation as one big trip. Even in Europe it's not common at all.

Post: #21

I quit reading after you said the other 50% of the time you hate your job.

Get the fuck out of there and do it sooner rather than later. Making 60k a year isn't going to have you feeling any better when you're laying in bed at night looking forward to another day where you hate 50% of it.

All you're going to do is waste more years working in a job with "decent" long term prospects and thinking about how you want to change things in your life.

Post: #22

Quote:Here are the risk factors I see:
(1) fucking up my career- basically, I worry that i will wake up after a year or two in thailand and I realize I want to go back to the West, but now I've fallen off the career ladder. My industry is really conservative so it'd be tough to get back in after going expat.
(2) related to point (1), by fucking up the career, I feel like I'd jeopardize my chances at having a normal, conventional family life if I ever ended up wanting that (suburbs, house, wife, kids, etc)
(3) related to (1), maybe it is dumb to spend down my (humble) net worth when I've been fortunate enough to start building wealth. Again, I'm worried ill wake up as a 35-year or 45-year old man and say "what the hell was I thinking?"

All valid concerns.

Quote:On the other hand, I feel like I should not wait, because:
(1) the cost of living spread between the U.S. and Thailand might narrow (thailand and such is getting more expensive, so I feel like low-cost SEA won't be there if I wait too long).
(2) life is really short
(3) I worry that I might get stuck (fall in love like an idiot) with a western girl the longer I stay in the west (whether my current gf or some other girl sooner or later)
(4) I look at the 50-year old guys that did the "normal life" track and I think they're crazy for going through all the s when if they didn't buy the his, marry the girl, have the kids and buy the boat, they could have been free. Instead, they make $200k a year, but they NEED to go to work tomorrow, they NEED to smile when the client yells at them, etc.

1) Entirely possible, and even likely. But then another low cost, high standard of living place will spring up. Think about Colombia. No one sans death wish would've considered moving there in Escobar's day. Times change.

2) Life is also really long.

3) Knowing the problem is (more than) half the battle. The rest is self discipline.

4) As someone mentioned earlier, that's an inner game problem (up to a certain seniority, above that and the appearance of a "normal" life is basically a job requirement). Why not make 200k a year without having to spend it on stupid shit (e.g. boat, alimony)? Fuck you money is the only true freedom.

Post: #23

I also get these thoughts sometimes. I had them more often when my boss was an asshole, though, so maybe that's one of the reasons for OP too.

A few points:

-Why Thailand? Have you been around SEA? Thailand is one of the better options, but the people are more xenophobic, the visa rules are pretty shitty and getting worse, the girls aren't the easiest and there's also a language barrier.

-Can you get transferred to Asia for work or find something similar in HK, Singapore or somewhere else in Asia?

-Like others suggested, can you take unpaid leave or a sabbatical?

-2 years' worth of savings is not much if you consider sitting on your ass, drinking beer and banging chicks. You just don't have enough to retire or even semi-retire if that's all you've got. You do have enough to take risks, though, if you move to Asia and get a new job or start working as a freelancer.

-There is a lot in between moving to Asia in your 20s and 50s. You can work hard a few more years, take vacations in different countries in Asia and get a better idea on where you want to move.

Post: #24

2 years of income isn't really much at all. I burned through over 75k partying in Cuba while in law school alone. Your burn rate will likely end up higher than you plan on it being when you first go away. I think if you are a young guy with near 0 assets the best strategy is try to bank 3k a month (even if it requires living a low standard of living if you set on moving away). Invest all of that money and ideally get to the point in 10 years or so where you can make $1500 a month or so in Dividends while at the same time building an online income. That way you can perhaps end up at the point where you have multiple streams of income one of which is guaranteed (though the amount will change as companies slash and hike dividends) that can be a fallback.

Your gaming span is a lot longer in many of these countries. I know tons of 60+ old age pensioners with 20 year old girlfriends / wifes for example.

The one thing you need to keep in mind is you will at some point get bored of partying if that becomes the focal point of your life.

The other option is to go there young and try to start a business or get involved in a business. Perhaps go to Shanghai or somewhere where professional jobs that pay well exist. You could do this for several years and still save / invest money while being a flight away from SEA.

Surprisingly enough, a lot of litigation lawyers who run their own practices seem to take 8-12 weeks a year (even more in some cases) though they typically are established.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of accountants are able to do the same if they have staff and can answer questions via skype / email.

I'm surprised no one on the forum owns a driving range. (I have no idea about the economics of it) That seems just about the ideal business in terms of being seasonal. You get to be around in the warmth of summer and gone for the winter.

One guy I know who lives abroad owns several restaurants. All are cheap start ups that profit small amounts (10-20k per year each) but it allows him to live a very good lifestyle without working much as the restaurants are run by a manager back in Canada.

Post: #25

There is a lot of linear thinking going on in this thread that is doing a disservice to GetFree11.

What nobody has mentioned is that there are a large contingent of foreigners living in Thailand who make money online. There is probably a higher concentration of guys who work online in Thailand than any other country in the world.

It's impossible to be surrounded by that kind of person without having their mindset rub off on you.

While the plan right now might be to just lounge around for 2 years, it's unlikely that it will play out like that in practice. A few months of hedonism will be a welcome relief to the monotony of life in the corporate world, but once the effect wears off you'll realize you never want to go back to the old way and you'll start looking more seriously for a way to sustain the new lifestyle.

$60,000 a month in a job that restricts your freedom, where you are around people you don't like and have little time to pursue your interests isn't a very appealing offer.

Making $20,000 online in Thailand gives you a lot more freedom, more options and a higher standard of living than you could get by living in the US. Once you get there you have higher quality options to choose from with what to do with your life.