Post: #1

http://managementconsulted.com/consultin...t-banking/

Great pay (not as much as investment bankers), better worklife balance and lots of travel. Sounds sweet, maybe one day I can work at The Boston Consulting Group, hopefully transfer to their NYC office Anyone here have any experience or knowledge about consulting?

Post: #2

(09-04-2011 01:22 AM)P Dog Wrote:  Anyone here have any experience or knowledge about consulting?

I used to be a programmer before I got into health care. I liked being a consultant way more than being an employee because their paternalistic idea that they own you is weaker. You're treated less like a child and more like an equal.

Of course, I've never had a job I've liked, so this is a personal thing.

if you can go to the same place every day, do the same thing, and be ordered around by the same people and have it feel sort of acceptable you're different than me.

Post: #3

Some knowledge from friends. I'll just knowledge dump.

It seems there are two tiers.

Tier 1 McK, BCG, Bain, Monitor
Tier 2 Accenture, Deloitte, boutique firms, etc...

Tier 1, work like a dog - burnout is really high although people dont complain about it as much as I-banking. People that do it really appreciate the fact that they get work with really smart people for a change. They live out of a suitcase to a certain extent. Don't have too much choice where they get sent: Saudi, London, Houston. It's pretty random. Pay is near tops. Connections and working at the larger firms is like having gold stamp on your resume. People usually leapfrog from there to top tier MBAs or hedge funds. They give you this "mini" MBA training so you can "technically" be from any background. They just look for "smart" people or people that bullshit well.

Tier 2.
Work out of a suitcase. Pay is roughly the same as an engineer's salary. Hours are longer but not as bad as tier 1.

To some extent I think consulting doesn't make too much sense if you've seen the work that they do. It's a lot of educated guessing with a lot of assumptions.

With regards to traveling.

Had a friend pull some strings and end up in hawaii for a year, everything paid for. Had another friend that got sent to the middle of nowhere for a year as well.

Post: #4

my best friend from college works with Deloitte.

he is always traveling around the US.

Post: #5

I was talking with a CEO for a medium sized (200 partners) consulting firm here in my home town the other day.

He said it like this: If you worked with established players, you're gonna get to work very hard, with smart people, at a very low level. Most def a small fish in a big pond.

You work with a newer, younger, more dynamic less established group, you're gonna be a big fish in a small pond, and... all else being equal, I reckon that's a better deal for consulting. The experience you get from more responsibility earlier on will look better. People in the business know what BCG and McKinsey are like, and the respect for them is not that great. The awe is from people outside the industry who don't know better.

That said... I would only work in consulting after I myself felt I had some REAL life experience, like the military. I can't take people who learnt about management in a classroom seriously.

Post: #6

(09-04-2011 01:58 AM)AJ Wrote:  Some knowledge from friends. I'll just knowledge dump.

It seems there are two tiers.

Tier 1 McK, BCG, Bain, Monitor
Tier 2 Accenture, Deloitte, boutique firms, etc...

Tier 1, work like a dog - burnout is really high although people dont complain about it as much as I-banking. People that do it really appreciate the fact that they get work with really smart people for a change. They live out of a suitcase to a certain extent. Don't have too much choice where they get sent: Saudi, London, Houston. It's pretty random. Pay is near tops. Connections and working at the larger firms is like having gold stamp on your resume. People usually leapfrog from there to top tier MBAs or hedge funds. They give you this "mini" MBA training so you can "technically" be from any background. They just look for "smart" people or people that bullshit well.

Tier 2.
Work out of a suitcase. Pay is roughly the same as an engineer's salary. Hours are longer but not as bad as tier 1.

To some extent I think consulting doesn't make too much sense if you've seen the work that they do. It's a lot of educated guessing with a lot of assumptions.

With regards to traveling.

Had a friend pull some strings and end up in hawaii for a year, everything paid for. Had another friend that got sent to the middle of nowhere for a year as well.

I've worked as a consultant for quite a few years and this post is pretty much spot on. Most consultants are full of shit. Most consultants are just paid for educated guesses based on very poor "data calls."
The best consultants are those who 1) have very specific expertise (scientists, engineer, comp sci etc) and/or 2) have real no shit experience in the industry they are consulting to.
So-called consultants have robbed the federal government (IBM, Accenture, Booz Allen Hamilton) blind the last ten years.

Post: #7

Exactly like IB with better hours, less coin and travel.

Post: #8

If you're interested in working for them. You have to start planning 1-2 years in advance.

For McK. If you're still in school - you need leadership experience, stellar grades, and have demonstrated that you're interested in the field. You also need to prep doing case studies ~1-2y in advance. A unique biography doesn't hurt either.

Also remember... if you're at a decent public university. The top firms only hire maybe 3 kids from that school/year. Competition is fierce... Especially in this economic climate.

Post: #9

This article is very well written, in depth and will give you a good idea of what the work entails: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...myth/4883/

Some consulting firms offer flexible working arrangements like working from home, 4 day weeks, etc.

Post: #10

AJ's post is pretty much spot on. If you can power through the rough hours for a couple of years you are pretty much set to pick and choose your next position that's not at corporate major managerial levels.

If you can get in, do it. But be prepared that these firms consider their workers as a resource to be expended.

Post: #11

This is what its like..

Post: #12

Well, I'm not exactly getting rich working as a consultant from Colombia but the freedom I get is great! I don't have to put up with bitchy people and can work on my underwear if I want to...the only drawback I see from this is not getting any 401K pension and USA medical health insurance, but I'm planning on starting to invest on real state soon so when retirement age arrives I plan on being fine...

Post: #13

I was just reading this thread thought it deserved a bump. If we still have any players in the game that would be kind enough to drop more knowledge on the consulting industry, please do.

Post: #14

AJ's post above is a great starting point.

There's a big difference between the term of art "Management Consulting" and the more general meaning of consulting which is anyone hired on a contract basis, usually for a specific project.

Management Consulting usually refers to services offered to Executive Management of large companies. It's where an established company pays a boatload of money to a private firm to have a crew of of ambitious, well-educated, well-dressed, well-trained, but inexperienced 20-somethings analyze the company; telling the executive management things they already know and recommending actions they were going to do anyway.

It seems like a huge racket to me. But if you have the opportunity and think you can handle the pressure, seems like a good way to start a business career. Pay is decent and you get a lot of experience and you travel a lot.

Post: #15

Read "The Management Myth" by Matthew Stewart for a biased (as if the title didn't give that away), but largely accurate account of management consulting.

Post: #16

This is a good book if you are planning to become your own consultant. Probably wouldnt hurt if you are trying to get your first role in a big firm;



http://www.amazon.com/Flawless-Consultin...0470620749

Post: #17

I just checked out Case in Point (7th Ed.) by Marc Consentino from the library and am going to look through it. It gets a lot of praise from what I've seen online.

Post: #18

(09-04-2011 01:29 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(09-04-2011 01:22 AM)P Dog Wrote:  Anyone here have any experience or knowledge about consulting?

I used to be a programmer before I got into health care. I liked being a consultant way more than being an employee because their paternalistic idea that they own you is weaker. You're treated less like a child and more like an equal.

Of course, I've never had a job I've liked, so this is a personal thing.

if you can go to the same place every day, do the same thing, and be ordered around by the same people and have it feel sort of acceptable you're different than me.

How do you get around with a job you don't like?
How do you appear "happy" and "receptive" when head honchos from corporate show up?

I tried to fake it when they came over, and counting the hours became a norm.

Post: #19

Damn this thread is old. I have no interest in consulting anymore, I'm pretty set on Banking/Finance, though not investment banking (spending my 20's working 80+ hours a week and being miserable is not worth the money).

Post: #20

I work at McKinsey. I've been in consulting for about 2 years, before which I went to a top MBA. Are there specific questions? If so I will answer as best as I can. Wallstreetoasis is another good forum.

Summary:

Long hours M-Th (8am to 11pm average). Lighter friday. Very little on weekends.

Good money. After undergrad is around 100k all in. Post MBA is about 180 all in. 2-3 years after MBA is low mid 200s. 4-6 years after MBA is 300s. 6 plus years after MBA you can be partner (6 is quite fast), and the range there is 600k to 2M plus.

Expense account is great. Lots of good food. It helps keep your spending down during the week which is great. This combined with the fact that I'm cheap, and ill save six figures this year, which is nice. Good for enabling early retirement.

Travel is lame. I spent about 6 months where I slept on a plane every Sunday night for about 4-5 hours (and then worked 15 hour day). The upside is points. I've flown to Asia, Australia, Africa, South America, and a variety of domestic places all on points. I never pay for a hotel anymore. Maybe if I had more vacation I would run out of points...I also fly more than most. If you live on east coast of US for example, you are likely to fly less. "Alternative" travel is nice too if single (e.g., fly somewhere else other than home if the ticket price is same or less)

What else? High turnover. Sounds cool until you realize your life is work during the week -- really nothing else. So yeah, most people are 2-4 years and then they leave. I'm stubborn and don't mind it so "in" for now.

Overall good gig if young and single (good brand, good pay, travel can be leverage more if single and less downside of being away from family).

Let me know if there are any specific questions.

Post typed from phone -- sorry for any poor grammar or sentence structure.

Post: #21

Goodtimez - very interesting, thanks for the perspective.

I've got undergrad in business / finance and about a year in an ops role at a major financial services company, and considering grad school in 1-3 years. Opportunities to move upward in my current role are limited, so my options are either 1) move to other ops roles, possibly sell-side or 2) switch industries.

What sort of advice would you have for someone trying to break into mid-tier consulting (large firm, brand recognition) from another industry?

Post: #22

(07-22-2014 04:34 PM)polar Wrote:  Goodtimez - very interesting, thanks for the perspective.

I've got undergrad in business / finance and about a year in an ops role at a major financial services company, and considering grad school in 1-3 years. Opportunities to move upward in my current role are limited, so my options are either 1) move to other ops roles, possibly sell-side or 2) switch industries.

What sort of advice would you have for someone trying to break into mid-tier consulting (large firm, brand recognition) from another industry?

It's a good question, and a common question.

One word answer: network

Details: You're not in school anymore so on-campus recruiting is out. The main ways in now are either (i) grad school or (ii) networking.

How you network is up to you. Here's one method: Look people up on linkedin. Send the a message saying you interested in consulting and you'd love to talk. Alumni of your school are a good place to start. Setup time for a phone call, and start talking to them. Have questions brainstormed ahead of time. If/when appropriate, ask them their advice on how to enter their firm. Eventually someone will offer to submit your resume.

Send them your resume.

Hopefully get an interview.

Prepare for the interview. What does this mean? (1) You need a "about yourself" answer that is well rehearsed. The way they ask this is "tell me about yourself" or "walk me through your resume" or whatever. (2) They also will ask a variety of "overcoming a challenge" or "greatest success" or "a time you led something" or whatever questions. For these, you just need 2-3 canned stories that you can spin to answer whatever question they ask. All of these are C.A.R. (Challenge -- what was problem, Action -- what you did (this is majority of response, Result -- what happened as a result of actions / how you won the day...quantitative results are better). (3) Prepare for case interviews. This will probably be 60-70% of the interview.

Hopefully get an offer. The end.

Post: #23

Best way to break into the mug tier I brought up as something that happened me - get headhunted.

That requires pretty much the same of what goodtimez above is describing though you have to have that network where you can make yourself a dot on the radar.

Post: #24

I was going to bite my tongue, but couldn't help but to throw in my $.02:

1. Anytime you are working a job where you have to turn in billable hours, it makes for a shitty lifestyle. Complete donkey. If young, work at these places to gold plate resume only then get the hell out. Save the "going to make partner in x years" for blue pillers. Total crock (and will for sure set you up for a "just one more year" treadmill mentality)

2. Anytime someone says that they would rather work in consulting or commercial banking over scoring a job as an investment banker at a top wall street firm because "the hours suck", it is always the case that they never truly had the offer anyway. If someone wants to get on here and tell me they told Goldman Sachs to stuff it because the hours sucked then I'm happy to eat crow. Just haven't seen this yet. "No longer interested in investment banking because of the hours" = no true job offer (or rather, there was no bid).

Post: #25

(07-23-2014 05:10 PM)anonymous123 Wrote:  2. Anytime someone says that they would rather work in consulting or commercial banking over scoring a job as an investment banker at a top wall street firm because "the hours suck", it is always the case that they never truly had the offer anyway. If someone wants to get on here and tell me they told Goldman Sachs to stuff it because the hours sucked then I'm happy to eat crow. Just haven't seen this yet. "No longer interested in investment banking because of the hours" = no true job offer (or rather, there was no bid).

That's the kind of thing you'd expect on Wall Street Oasis not RVF. I'm not at the end of my degree yet, but as you know I'm at a target school with good grades, and I have zero interest in IB even though I have a shot at it. Give me an BB IB offer right now and you'd be eating crow. Working 12 hour days is one thing. But 80-100 a week? No way. Being miserable and having no life for a big chunk of my 20's isn't worth the money. What would I even spend it on? I want to work to live, not live to work. 8-10 years in corp banking here and you're on $250k, with a much more relaxed lifestyle than IB. For me that's a no brainer.