Post: #26

My main issue is that I say sorry every time I almost run into someone, customer or coworker. Coworkers (especially females), I just blame them for being in the way. Customers, I worry too much about and say sorry. Even if it is appropriate, its way overused and excuse me or oops would be more appropriate for a near collision. This isnt even about alpha/beta stuff. The word is way overused and inappropriately used.

Post: #27

Interesting. Americans and Canadians uses "sorry" all the fucking time. Almost like Swedes all the time responds with "fun" or "exciting" in Swedish when you are speaking with about things that are certainly not fun or exciting. It seems like those thing are on autopilot for a lot of people.

However, as not a native English speaker I'm curious to know what you guys who don't use "sorry" or "excuse me " are using in a situation when you want somebody's attention in a polite way?

Example if you are having a business dinner at a fancy place together with some important people you want to close a deal with and you want to call over the waitress/waiter. Which word are you using? Or are you smacking their ass red? I guess you don't want to give a dramatic picture of yourself.

Post: #28

I hate the word sorry.

Use "my bad", "my apologies", but never sorry.

Post: #29

OP, your thread title should have been "worrying too much." It's obvious for me that's what the real issue is. Learn to be IDGAF and develop your frame instead of focusing on what to say and not to say. You already know what to say judging from all your posts; you just have a hard time making them congruent to your overall frame.

It's easy for the rest of us to respond to a thread title but seeing the actual problem, I can't help but reiterate.

Words like sorry and excuse me are also cultural. Just because you use a certain one all the time doesn't mean shit when certain situations or locations call for something else.

Walk into the hood? Say "My bad," not sorry. Walk into a snotty upper class area instead, say "pardon me." So far I was thinking USA but walk into other countries, look up what to say or ask a random girl.

Post: #30

Interesting topic. Sometimes when I think stuff like this I'm like am I really going to analyze every little thing I do?

THis is an interesting point though. I was just in Target or somewhere the other day and just second nature said sorry when I turned a corner sharply and was about to bump into me. The guy I almost bumped into didn't say anything to me and kinda walked by.

I think sorry is sorta submissive and taking on fault yourself where as excuse me is like you said more neutral. I notice when I say excuse me, sometimes I have an asshole tone my gf tells me even when I'm not trying to be a dick but other people apologize or make way where as when you say sorry its like your the one at fault and other people look at you a certain way. Interesting point.

Post: #31

I stepped on a guys backpack while trying to get to my seat in class and said "My bad"

Was that beta

Post: #32

Post: #33

yep, I am doing the same thing. Striking the word sorry from my vocabulary. I have even caught a couple of times and squelched it as soon as my tongue touched my front teeth.

A great phrase to use, if you want to be insulting/flippant to someone who is fishing for an apology is President Ronnie Reagan's "Mistakes were made".

Post: #34

HOW you say Sorry gives it meaning.

You can say it while making it clear you are not sorry.

Post: #35

I wouldn't strike anything from your vocabulary until you've gained enough social proficiency to be able to connect with people.

Once you believe you can, think about what you "did" (not said) that caused a certain positive reaction and what caused negatives. Take the negative away. Rinse, repeat.

I'm not all the way either, but I do believe one man's sorry is another man's pussy pass.

Game is not a script as I continue to realize every single day. Create and refine; don't stick to one and restrict yourself.

Post: #36

(09-02-2014 05:34 PM)Kaizen Wrote:  HOW you say Sorry gives it meaning.

You can say it while making it clear you are not sorry.

I believe the general board consensus is it is so often used without meaning or with contradictory meaning that it now has no meaning or is inappropriate for a sincere apology.

Post: #37

(08-30-2014 02:14 PM)zaqan Wrote:  I have notice that whenever I bump into someone or almost do (mostly at work--I work in a store), I quickly say sorry. I have tried several times to get myself to say "excuse me" instead, but I have been so focused on ensuring customers arent butthurt that I end up being deferential. Sorry is a submissive word. Excuse me is more neutral and pleasant. A few days ago, I bumped into someone and said sorry and then cursed myself and repeatedly said Excuse me for a moment to try to remind myself.

It may seem a bit mundane, but its all about how you carry yourself around. Theres no need to be submissive and apologize for an accident. Furthermore, it dilutes the actual times you really do need to say sorry for something (a major screw up, where someone is furious at you). If you are apologizing all the time, they will notice, and the real ones will seem fake.

Has anyone else experienced this trying to rewire what you say naturally, whether its this or something else? There are a lot of words and ways to say things that can be upsetting or grating. Another example is but. Ive tried to eliminate that for two reasons: it either sounds whiny, or it sounds abrupt. Especially when talking to managers, saying however and and are much more pleasant and flowing ways to alter the direction of what you are saying.

"I moved all the stuff, but I didnt get to set it up." — Its a sharp pause that can jerk someone subconsciously.
"I moved all the stuff, however I didnt get to set it up." — much smoother

There is also "no" vs. "not yet". Whenever a manager or someone asks if I did something and they expect me to say yes, I just say not yet, which implies it will be done, is much smoother, and doesnt pack the punch of NO.

When in Germany or Austria, learn the difference between your Ent Entschuldigung's and your Ent shuldigen Sie's.

I don't know, but there is a difference. I once bumbed into this old dear at Munich train station on the way to Vienna and I nearly knocked her flying, accident of course. I said Ent shuldigen sie and she just melted in my hands. It is very important to learn the local lingo, even if it is just for dumb stuff like this. Not so dumb really. I swear she wanted to kill me before I said that.

Post: #38

(09-01-2014 10:06 AM)Cobra Wrote:  OP, your thread title should have been "worrying too much." It's obvious for me that's what the real issue is. Learn to be IDGAF and develop your frame instead of focusing on what to say and not to say. You already know what to say judging from all your posts; you just have a hard time making them congruent to your overall frame.

It's easy for the rest of us to respond to a thread title but seeing the actual problem, I can't help but reiterate.

Words like sorry and excuse me are also cultural. Just because you use a certain one all the time doesn't mean shit when certain situations or locations call for something else.

Walk into the hood? Say "My bad," not sorry. Walk into a snotty upper class area instead, say "pardon me." So far I was thinking USA but walk into other countries, look up what to say or ask a random girl.

I think the main thing is overuse. Saying sorry every time you ALMOST bump into someone is ridiculous. Excuse me seems more appropriate. There are times when sorry can be used, but it shouldnt be so trivialized. Its part of being aware of what the hell you are doing in your day to day life, and words can alter your mindset, and thus frame. See the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity But of course getting too worked up about what one says prevents them from saying it.

Post: #39

An update to this: Presently, I almost never say sorry to anyone, even superiors. If I get caught in the wrong at work, I sarcastically shift blame, sometimes into absurdity. When I bump into people even customers at work, they seem to say sorry first. I say nothing or "oh, excuse me". I can recall one time I slipped in the past few weeks.

But it can be done with an aggressive mental restructuring. Just keep beating at it and eventually you will realize that you did it.

Post: #40

Stop saying I'm sorry so much.

Think about what you are saying when you say

I'm sorry.

what you are saying is

Gee, I sure am a sorry motherfucker.
(and by sorry I mean pathetic and pitiful. I am pathetic and pitiful because I did xxxxx.)

And why are you saying this? Because you misheard someone? Because you almost bumped into someone (god forbid)? Come on! Save "I'm sorry" for if/when you cause some actual serious damage. Then "I'm sorry" carries the weight that it should.

Post: #41

I had a roommate once, big time momma's boy, who apologized for fucking everything. Even today I can think back and the biggest thing I remember about him is a nonstop loop of meaningless apologies. They meant nothing. He was more scared about me talking shit to his face or thinking badly of him than he was about anything else. From then on I decided to never apologize for anything ever again, since his constant use soured the very meaning of the word 'sorry' in my mind. He came off as such a weak and fragile little shit that I never bothered doing what his daddy should have done years earlier and whooped his ass for playing on my sympathies and lying.

Just last week I was at lecture and the teacher, he's this grumpy old dude with a lot of tenure no doubt, was asked a question by a student -

Student : Excuse me, sorry professor X, what does that mean?
Professor X : Sorry for what? What the hell do you have to be sorry about?
Student: Sorry ... I just-
Professor X : There you go again. Don't be sorry.
Student : ... (struck completely dumb)
Professor X : OK, you were asking what does what mean? Come up here and point at it.

I guess I'm glad for the student that there were no women in the class so he didn't look like a complete tool.
The lecture went on from there.

If any of you guys have the misfortune of dealing with an apologizer or whatever, life sucks and grant them no respect or mercy. Sorry is what the guys at the Nuremberg trials should have said, not something that's uttered on the daily.

This is why I use "excuse me" as a polite term.

Post: #42

Some words are just space fillers, said automatically, but given meaning by the context.
As far as literal meaning goes, sorry and excuse me are interchangeable: one admits blame, the other asks for forgiveness for blame.

I think the issue here is that you associate sorry with head-ducking, submissive body language,
while excuse me comes along with more self-respecting body language, and when you use these words, the body language comes along for the ride.
That said, there's no reason to see it as a problem. Consider it self-hypnosis. Use the words that create confidence. Avoid the ones that create submissiveness.

On a related note, when I've rubbed someone the wrong way, and I want to keep our statuses balanced, I say, "I think we've misunderstood each other."

Post: #43

I say sorry, but the person unconsciously knows I am not being sincere and it somehow works.

Post: #44

(10-25-2015 12:46 AM)Hades Wrote:  If any of you guys have the misfortune of dealing with an apologizer or whatever, life sucks and grant them no respect or mercy. Sorry is what the guys at the Nuremberg trials should have said, not something that's uttered on the daily.

This is why I use "excuse me" as a polite term.

I know a girl who is like this. Nicest, sweetest thing ever. It does get annoying however, when she apologizes for stuff that isnt even remotely related to her. I guess its a selling point for women.

Post: #45

I've also stopped using the word sorry.

Only in cases where I actually do mean it, otherwise it just: excuse me, my bad, my mistake, oops, huh? or just ignore it and change the subject.

It all depends on what actually happened. But chances are, I'm never sorry anyway, so why use that word?

Post: #46

It's cute how Americans worry about whether "sorry" has anything to do with an admission of fault.

In London "sorry" means "I'm not sorry" or "get out of the way". There is zero contrition. It is quicker and more efficient than saying "excuse me". No one has time to rattle off more than one word to some prick.

Post: #47

(11-17-2015 04:29 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  It's cute how Americans worry about whether "sorry" has anything to do with an admission of fault.

In London "sorry" means "I'm not sorry" or "get out of the way". There is zero contrition. It is quicker and more efficient than saying "excuse me". No one has time to rattle off more than one word to some prick.

Yeah man, that's pretty ridiculous. I say "sorry" quite often, and what I mean by that is "dude whatever". If someone thinks that I'm in some way "weak" for saying that word, just let them think that. I'm really beyond that stage were I care what other people think of the words I'm using.

Post: #48

(11-17-2015 04:29 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  It's cute how Americans worry about whether "sorry" has anything to do with an admission of fault.

In London "sorry" means "I'm not sorry" or "get out of the way". There is zero contrition. It is quicker and more efficient than saying "excuse me". No one has time to rattle off more than one word to some prick.

Needs more condescension