Such things happen in much more (relatively) law-abiding and advanced countries like Croatia - there's a strip club right beneath my house that robs tourists almost at gunpoint - I don't see why it couldn't happen in the Philippines. If anything, you escaped unscathed compared to nasty shit that could have happened to you.

(08-01-2014 03:00 PM)Tough lucky Luke Wrote:  Has anyone come across the following kind of small-time, little scam, which seems quite in fashion in Manila : A cute Filipina woman that you meet online or during day-game at a mall, pretends that she "has to work every night at a Karaoke bar", but she "invites" you to this bar tonight... and of course you'll have to pay the bill, after meeting her and sharing time with her, at the Karaoke bar (there goes the "invitation").? Happened to anybody?

Another question : In said situation, I managed to "escape" the bar while a bunch of Japanese customers were at the door... under cover of these Japanese, so to speak, I made my exit, without running but determined and fast (with the cute girl kinda running after me, but not all the way onto the street of course).... My question is :

After that night, the cute girl was desperate to get me back into the karaoke bar, "to explain all and so that she could make amends and be very, very nice with me", she sent tons of enticing sms to convince me to come back... Do you think that if I had come back, the karaoke-bar owners would have actually assaulted, beaten me?? in downtown Manila?.... What do you think would have happened?? They would have taken money from my pockets, roughed me up? worse?

So, you are genuinely of the belief that you were escaping a scam, rather than escaping paying your fair share of a bill?

^^^jjg, dude...... If you think TLL is trying to escape his first share then I hope you bring millions with you when you head there.

It's a well known scam abroad, it's even practiced in the US. Girl will use you for their promoter job. The more you drink the bigger share they get. She wasn't interested in him, just in his money.

Good for him for getting out of there. Sure the girl got in trouble with her bosses.... But that's what she gets for "inviting" people over and using then for her commission.

(08-01-2014 03:54 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  ^^^jjg, dude...... If you think TLL is trying to escape his first share then I hope you bring millions with you when you head there.

It's a well known scam abroad, it's even practiced in the US. Girl will use you for their promoter job. The more you drink the bigger share they get. She wasn't interested in him, just in his money.

Good for him for getting out of there. Sure the girl got in trouble with her bosses.... But that's what she gets for "inviting" people over and using then for her commission.

Yes... I am asking TLL for clarification.

And, yes you, CR, have also made a decent point that there are scams all over the world, so I have had some exposure to various kinds of scams in my living my life...

I have found that usually, I'm too cheap to pay in these kinds of situations, so I may have done something similar to TLL to find a way to escape the potential trap situation.

In sum, if there is an attempt to get me to pay for something that I have NOT agreed to, then I tend to get fairly irritable and vocal about such attempts... I may pay if the circumstances seem to put me otherwise in danger, and I am NOT saying that I would NOT potentially fall for such a scam... or something similar.

In my current thinking, it seems that it would be a good practice to seek clarification in these kinds of circumstances, if there seems to be ambiguity about the price of something... and/or whether there is an actual invitation for some kind of "free" service or entertainment... or an expectation that I would be paying.

(08-01-2014 03:47 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(08-01-2014 03:00 PM)Tough lucky Luke Wrote:  Has anyone come across the following kind of small-time, little scam, which seems quite in fashion in Manila : A cute Filipina woman that you meet online or during day-game at a mall, pretends that she "has to work every night at a Karaoke bar", but she "invites" you to this bar tonight... and of course you'll have to pay the bill, after meeting her and sharing time with her, at the Karaoke bar (there goes the "invitation").? Happened to anybody?

Another question : In said situation, I managed to "escape" the bar while a bunch of Japanese customers were at the door... under cover of these Japanese, so to speak, I made my exit, without running but determined and fast (with the cute girl kinda running after me, but not all the way onto the street of course).... My question is :

After that night, the cute girl was desperate to get me back into the karaoke bar, "to explain all and so that she could make amends and be very, very nice with me", she sent tons of enticing sms to convince me to come back... Do you think that if I had come back, the karaoke-bar owners would have actually assaulted, beaten me?? in downtown Manila?.... What do you think would have happened?? They would have taken money from my pockets, roughed me up? worse?

So, you are genuinely of the belief that you were escaping a scam, rather than escaping paying your fair share of a bill?

It sounded as if he escaped a bill for merely enjoying his time with her, not for food or drink ("you'll have to pay the bill, after meeting her and sharing time with her") but it was also somewhat ambiguous. Perhaps he can elaborate as to whether the bill was just for her time or also for food and drink.

Yes, this scam is quite common everywhere, from the Riga bar scam to invitations to eat at noodle shops in China. The scam is always the same: an invitation to a specific venue where the victim gets massively overcharged.

Prevention is always the same: either choose the venue yourself or ask about prices before you order.

My favorite story in this regard was about a UK detective on vacation in Riga who refused to pay during one of these scams. He throttled two Russian dudes, bit off an ear during the fight, and caused an international incident that embarrassed the corrupt Riga police department that colluded with the thugs.

Better yet, why don't you set the frame and pick the location? If a girl won't agree to meet you in your place of choosing, something is off, or she's trying to control the frame.

Either way you should take a pass. No pussy is worth that.

So, some clarification : this scam was clever, because she insisted on me being INVITED to a SPECIAL EVENT in this karaoke-bar (I won't elaborate, but something like Special Christmas Day, or Special Full Moon Night, point is, it was an invitation for a special, insider event, not a normal business-working day where I would clearly have expected to pay).

And reason I went to see her is, she was VERY beautiful, very sexy, and a great kisser (we had met once before in a regular setting, and kissed, but after that she swore that she had no more free time, had to work every night to feed her family, and would I please come see her at her karaoke bar, pretty please and all!)...

So, she played me. I think I was right to make my exit-escape this way : I knew security wouldn't jump on me in front of a bunch of paying, loaded Japanese customers that had just entered God bless the Japanese.

Anyway, this is a real problem in Manila : some of the most beautiful women are working in Karaoke bars for Korean-Japanese travelers And they will want real good money from you, they got used to earning real money I guess and have become bitchy, entitled, unlike the lovely normal Filipinas!!

(08-01-2014 04:38 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  It sounded as if he escaped a bill for merely enjoying his time with her, not for food or drink ("you'll have to pay the bill, after meeting her and sharing time with her") but it was also somewhat ambiguous. Perhaps he can elaborate as to whether the bill was just for her time or also for food and drink.

Well, inside the bar I did drink a bit, but just a couple of beers... that she insisted on bringing me, at our table. Beer was not even cold enough. I couldn't kiss her in the bar because of "house rules", and no touching either .... So, I had a bad time in this useless bar, and felt no reason at all to pay any bill (especially as, as I've explained, I had been "invited" to this place).

Of course this scam works because the chick was so beautiful and sweet... I had to take a chance... I almost got back into this bar after that, but thanks God, I didn't listen to my dick and used my brains instead

I guess all scams abroad work the same : local chicks make you think with your dick, and there you go and fall inside the trap, even though almost always you just knew, somewhere in your head, that you were being played!!

(08-02-2014 04:17 AM)Tough lucky Luke Wrote:  

(08-01-2014 04:38 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  It sounded as if he escaped a bill for merely enjoying his time with her, not for food or drink ("you'll have to pay the bill, after meeting her and sharing time with her") but it was also somewhat ambiguous. Perhaps he can elaborate as to whether the bill was just for her time or also for food and drink.

Well, inside the bar I did drink a bit, but just a couple of beers... that she insisted on bringing me, at our table. Beer was not even cold enough. I couldn't kiss her in the bar because of "house rules", and no touching either .... So, I had a bad time in this useless bar, and felt no reason at all to pay any bill (especially as, as I've explained, I had been "invited" to this place).

Of course this scam works because the chick was so beautiful and sweet... I had to take a chance... I almost got back into this bar after that, but thanks God, I didn't listen to my dick and used my brains instead

I guess all scams abroad work the same : local chicks make you think with your dick, and there you go and fall inside the trap, even though almost always you just knew, somewhere in your head, that you were being played!!

I re-read your earlier post, and I appreciate that you had described this situation as a small scandal... and you were also asking whether guys here were of the belief that you did the right thing - or that you may have been in personal safety danger, if you had stayed and then refused to pay.

The more you describe the situation, the more I am of the opinion that you did the right thing by finding a good opportunity to exit the scenery quickly... .. what drama and excitement, ultimately!!!

I am wondering your opinion about how you plan to proceed? Do you feel as if you need to avoid this area of town in the future b/c some of the employees of the bar may remember you at that bar? Would you be inconvenienced to avoid that particular bar in the coming weeks or maybe even a bit longer, if you think that they remember you?

(08-02-2014 04:41 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(08-02-2014 04:17 AM)Tough lucky Luke Wrote:  

(08-01-2014 04:38 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  It sounded as if he escaped a bill for merely enjoying his time with her, not for food or drink ("you'll have to pay the bill, after meeting her and sharing time with her") but it was also somewhat ambiguous. Perhaps he can elaborate as to whether the bill was just for her time or also for food and drink.

Well, inside the bar I did drink a bit, but just a couple of beers... that she insisted on bringing me, at our table. Beer was not even cold enough. I couldn't kiss her in the bar because of "house rules", and no touching either .... So, I had a bad time in this useless bar, and felt no reason at all to pay any bill (especially as, as I've explained, I had been "invited" to this place).

Of course this scam works because the chick was so beautiful and sweet... I had to take a chance... I almost got back into this bar after that, but thanks God, I didn't listen to my dick and used my brains instead

I guess all scams abroad work the same : local chicks make you think with your dick, and there you go and fall inside the trap, even though almost always you just knew, somewhere in your head, that you were being played!!

I re-read your earlier post, and I appreciate that you had described this situation as a small scandal... and you were also asking whether guys here were of the belief that you did the right thing - or that you may have been in personal safety danger, if you had stayed and then refused to pay.

The more you describe the situation, the more I am of the opinion that you did the right thing by finding a good opportunity to exit the scenery quickly... .. what drama and excitement, ultimately!!!

I am wondering your opinion about how you plan to proceed? Do you feel as if you need to avoid this area of town in the future b/c some of the employees of the bar may remember you at that bar? Would you be inconvenienced to avoid that particular bar in the coming weeks or maybe even a bit longer, if you think that they remember you?

I am not in the Phils anymore, at the moment I am in Western Europe, but, to answer your question :

Of course after that I avoided this bar, avoided walking in front of it. But, I did NOT avoid the whole area of Manila where this bar is, because : maybe in a country like Mexico or Thailand, I would really fear for my safety after such an incident, but not in Manila... I don't see them actively going after a tourist, in Manila... (at least it is my opinion, am curious to see what DirectDanger or Calvin would think about this...)

(08-02-2014 04:17 AM)Tough lucky Luke Wrote:  

(08-01-2014 04:38 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  It sounded as if he escaped a bill for merely enjoying his time with her, not for food or drink ("you'll have to pay the bill, after meeting her and sharing time with her") but it was also somewhat ambiguous. Perhaps he can elaborate as to whether the bill was just for her time or also for food and drink.

Well, inside the bar I did drink a bit, but just a couple of beers... that she insisted on bringing me, at our table. Beer was not even cold enough. I couldn't kiss her in the bar because of "house rules", and no touching either .... So, I had a bad time in this useless bar, and felt no reason at all to pay any bill (especially as, as I've explained, I had been "invited" to this place).

Of course this scam works because the chick was so beautiful and sweet... I had to take a chance... I almost got back into this bar after that, but thanks God, I didn't listen to my dick and used my brains instead

I guess all scams abroad work the same : local chicks make you think with your dick, and there you go and fall inside the trap, even though almost always you just knew, somewhere in your head, that you were being played!!

In Asia usually Karaoke = KTV = Milking Japanese/Korean (sometimes foreign) customers for huge bills and then not getting laid

You could have told her "sorry I don't drink" to try to get here somewhere else.

Next her, delete/block contacts, plenty of other options there.

TLL, I'm not hating here and I'm glad you got out! It just sounds like your mind got a bit clouded. Filipinas love to be lead from my experience, and a second date at a karaoke bar (proposed by her), sounds suspicious. If, for example, a girl messaged me and told me to come find her at MBC, as she is working there tonight, I would stay away.

There is an abundance of young, sweet and horny Filipinas (especially in Manila!) ever to warrant going near a girl who is associated with any KTV, Bar or other insalubrious business!

(08-01-2014 03:00 PM)Tough lucky Luke Wrote:  Has anyone come across the following kind of small-time, little scam, which seems quite in fashion in Manila : A cute Filipina woman that you meet online or during day-game at a mall, pretends that she "has to work every night at a Karaoke bar", but she "invites" you to this bar tonight... and of course you'll have to pay the bill, after meeting her and sharing time with her, at the Karaoke bar (there goes the "invitation").? Happened to anybody?

Another question : In said situation, I managed to "escape" the bar while a bunch of Japanese customers were at the door... under cover of these Japanese, so to speak, I made my exit, without running but determined and fast (with the cute girl kinda running after me, but not all the way onto the street of course).... My question is :

After that night, the cute girl was desperate to get me back into the karaoke bar, "to explain all and so that she could make amends and be very, very nice with me", she sent tons of enticing sms to convince me to come back... Do you think that if I had come back, the karaoke-bar owners would have actually assaulted, beaten me?? in downtown Manila?.... What do you think would have happened?? They would have taken money from my pockets, roughed me up? worse?

Defintely a hustle and they were most likely overcharging you for the drinks.... Use your instincts if your gut tells you dont go back, dont go back!

(08-02-2014 04:17 AM)Tough lucky Luke Wrote:  Well, inside the bar I did drink a bit, but just a couple of beers

So, how much did they demand for your two bottles of beer? Did they also charge for her time? You are leaving out some rather basic details.

I am still trying to figure out out the extent of the scam. Is it like the Riga bar scam, where they charge you 1000 Euros for a few 10 Euro bottles of wine, or like the Chinese noodle scam, where they charge you $5.00 for a fifty cent bowl of noodles?

There might be a big difference on how you handle each situation. No reason to bite off someone's ear over a bowl of noodles.

(08-02-2014 10:29 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(08-02-2014 04:17 AM)Tough lucky Luke Wrote:  Well, inside the bar I did drink a bit, but just a couple of beers

So, how much did they demand for your two bottles of beer? Did they also charge for her time? You are leaving out some rather basic details.

I am still trying to figure out out the extent of the scam. Is it like the Riga bar scam, where they charge you 1000 Euros for a few 10 Euro bottles of wine, or like the Chinese noodle scam, where they charge you $5.00 for a fifty cent bowl of noodles?

There might be a big difference on how you handle each situation. No reason to bite off someone's ear over a bowl of noodles.

I have to say, they were charging only "moderately", nothing like a Riga bar scam... Only around 40 euros for everything, the 2 beers and "girl company"...

(08-02-2014 07:19 AM)rvlefty Wrote:  

(08-02-2014 04:17 AM)Tough lucky Luke Wrote:  

(08-01-2014 04:38 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  It sounded as if he escaped a bill for merely enjoying his time with her, not for food or drink ("you'll have to pay the bill, after meeting her and sharing time with her") but it was also somewhat ambiguous. Perhaps he can elaborate as to whether the bill was just for her time or also for food and drink.

Well, inside the bar I did drink a bit, but just a couple of beers... that she insisted on bringing me, at our table. Beer was not even cold enough. I couldn't kiss her in the bar because of "house rules", and no touching either .... So, I had a bad time in this useless bar, and felt no reason at all to pay any bill (especially as, as I've explained, I had been "invited" to this place).

Of course this scam works because the chick was so beautiful and sweet... I had to take a chance... I almost got back into this bar after that, but thanks God, I didn't listen to my dick and used my brains instead

I guess all scams abroad work the same : local chicks make you think with your dick, and there you go and fall inside the trap, even though almost always you just knew, somewhere in your head, that you were being played!!

In Asia usually Karaoke = KTV = Milking Japanese/Korean (sometimes foreign) customers for huge bills and then not getting laid

You could have told her "sorry I don't drink" to try to get here somewhere else.

Next her, delete/block contacts, plenty of other options there.

Sounds like a similar scam here in the USA

Get number from girl online and chat
Girl agrees to go out and picks the place
Ends up being dinner and drinks
Bill ends up being 100 or more
You end with a thanks and blue balls

Diff method but the same game

That's why men lead

I had a girl from wechat try this on me.

Almost identical story. Invite to the karaoke bar, has no time to meet anywhere else, etc...

I just didn't go.

So, we all agree, girls from Karaoke KTV bars are useless, a loss of time... no way to pry them away from their bars!

Matter of fact, I had another one, met in a Mall but working in a nearby Karaoke bar, and also very pretty, play me , actually she is the only chick in Manila that I invited to a drink + restaurant (lunch time, she works at night), and didn't bang after that... But she did try to hook me with her younger sister : problem is, sister was a 5 whereas she was a 8,5... And yes, there are 8,5 or 9 chicks in the Phils...
How can they be dumb enough to work in Karaoke bars, with their potential, this is the real, intriguing question!! Why don't they get themselves a Japanese sugar daddy or heck, a Western husband, and have a better life!?

But anyway it's okay, I've been played twice or three times in the Phils, but got numerous pretty chicks in my bed (What a blessed country!), and happy memories

just fyi, girls in KTV's in Asia (don't know about Japan, but in China, Skorea, vietnam, Phils, Thailand, Cambodia) are basically hookers. Thats what a ktv (unless its clearly a family ktv and labelled as such, and even then, sometimes). Any girl who works at a KTV and tells you that is almost assuredly a p2p girl. I guess that's why I don't see it as a scam, because she told you she's a bargirl. You went to see her at her work.

That being said, for no action 40euro is way overpriced for the phills. In China you pay to have the girls sit with you and pour your drinks and act like a girlfriend (as well as in other countries) and it costs 100rmb for their non-sexual company for the evening (about $16). So to revise what I said previously, the situation isn't a scam - no Phillipine biz man would think it was a scam, nor would a Chinese or Korean. But the amount was absolutely a scam, and totally unreasonable.

But G-global, the thing is, I met both of them outside of their KTV bars : one through day-game, the other through online gaming, and then they did everything they could (heavy teasing in one instance, French kissing in the other, plus sentences like "I will be on my best, I'll be so good to you") to attract me to their KTV...

So, they prey outside of their normal grounds! They go out like little pretty sharks, in real "civilian" life, and try to bring you to their working-traps KTV... unfair, isn't it?

Not really, to me at least. Its sort of like meeting a hot girl and she hangs with you and says, "come see me at my whorehouse. I really like you, come see me at my whorehouse. "

Scam? Probably not.

By the way, I was looking at my pics from the Phils, and I found the following one, taken in Davao (harbor), and I'm thinking : hey did I miss something, what the heck is this boat (and why did I forget about it, too? I should have inquired)



so, anybody knows what this boat is, in Davao (I saw it in the harbor that connects to the island off the coast of Davao, Samal island it is I think) ? A floating nightclub or something like that? currently in business?

(08-02-2014 02:29 PM)G_global Wrote:  Not really, to me at least. Its sort of like meeting a hot girl and she hangs with you and says, "come see me at my whorehouse. I really like you, come see me at my whorehouse. "

Scam? Probably not.

In your situation the girl actually says whorehouse and not workplace....where one thinks they can take her home after work. The girl in TLL's case was trying to act innocent and lied about her intentions.

They're simply trying to get money from people who don't know the culture/scams over there.

^^Actually, no.

KTV = Whorehouse. Its the same thing in asia. That girl saying KTV is the same as a girl here saying whorehouse. Traveling the world, things aren't necessarily translated into one's home country language. I think most of the asian experts from Cambodia and China and Thailand, and perhaps Korea, would agree with me.

Just like when a girl say "massageeeee" when you walk by in the street. You know its not just a massage, any more than a non-family KTV is just singing.

I'm just saying it as its understood in Asia. I'd not assume that she figured he didn't know it was p2p, but I do think she didn't think he'd know the price or he'd be too embarrassed not to pay what they charged (which was probably 400 percent of what it should have been).

To give a real world example, when I was recently in Phnom Penh hanging with BB, we met three good looking local girls in a club. They told us they were off work, but normally worked in a KTV. We both understood automatically that if we took these girls, it would either be "shoring" or for money. But if they asked us to come see them at work, there'd be a mamasan around, and you don't get to shore when the mamasan's in the house, unless you shore the mamasan.

Deleted (unintended posting of an old draft, sorry)