Post: #1

I think we would all agree that guys who are 9's or 10's (like Brad Pitt or George Clooney, etc.) don't really need any game to get quality pussy, just as chicks who are smokin' hot don't really need to put forth any effort to get laid/attention from men. So what, in your opinion, is the cut-off for "too hot to really have to try." Guys who are 8's? Or Guys who are 7's?

In my opinion, considering how promiscuous western women are these days (not to Roosh for having the courage to speak truth to power on this issue, "war on women" be damned), I would say that any guy who is in the 8 or even 7.5-10 range can pretty much get plenty of pussy without really "gaming." I think that game is a MUST for guys who are in the 5-7 range...you know, average dudes to SLIGHTLY above average, but not nearly good-looking enough to get as much pussy as they want WITHOUT both studying applying the principles of game. What do you guys think?

Anecdotally, when I was in high school and college, I knew guys who were in the 7-7.5 range who got laid quite often.

Post: #2

There is certainly such a point - at which pussy will just fall into your lap. However, a man of any value from other sources, no matter how high, is still going to need game for the purpose of relationships. There's no replacement for it in the long term.

Post: #3

George Clooney has game

No homo but most 'hot' guys without game usually get tied down into marriage or LTRs by very average women or by the first woman to go down on them. No one can slay pussy without game

Post: #4

It's how you carry yourself too. Clooney and Pitt know they're the shit. If they weren't, their relative looks would be 1- lower at the very least.

Post: #5

You still need to know the principles of game no matter how good looking you are. You still need to approach with confidence, you still need to know how to escalate, you still need to not be needy. Bad behavior is going to cause that pussy to become as arid as the Sahara in the summer.

The real debate in my mind isn't how hot you need to be to not need game, but how hot you need to be for you to be able to play the game with consistent success.

I think if you can get to the point where most women won't reject you just for your looks alone, you're in generally good shape. Chris over at Good Looking Loser says that's around a 7 or so (IE: above average), and I generally agree with him. From there each improvement in your looks will allow you to generally make less mistakes, but game is still indispensable, especially in longer term relationships, as Handsome said above me.

Post: #6

Hot can be relative to different women. Whenever I catch a girl I like who is smiling at me or repeated eye contact.....I know I am "hot" enough in some sense for her. Now....having said that I very rarely get approached. I have to take the cue....but these girls are easy to open and my game doesn't have to be as tight cause they find me attractive.

Post: #7

(07-06-2014 09:33 AM)SydneyD Wrote:  George Clooney has game

No homo but most 'hot' guys without game usually get tied down into marriage or LTRs by very average women or by the first woman to go down on them. No one can slay pussy without game

I agree.

It's all relative. People want to feel like they're dating up. The price of pussy is inversely proportional to a guys looks.

$P = lim (1/(male looks) ) as male looks -> 10

The price of pussy approaches 0 as male looks approaches 10

Post: #8

Looks I feel help the most in daygame with a direct approach. Many good looking guys escalate too fast, or expect the girls to do it so conversion rates can be higher in a guy with solid game compared to a guy with good looks.

Post: #9

Libertas, thanks for the mention of Chris over at goodlooking loser. His comment is right on point, since that is the question I was posing. So he thinks the base line is basially a 7, eh?! Interesting.

I agree with much of what you guys have said here. Game obviously helps you, regardless of how good-looking you are. I was merely wondering who game "helps the most." In other words, which guys does game DRASTICALLY INCREASE the pussy load of. My guess would still be guys in the 5-7 range, who get EXPONENTIALLY more pussy if they learn the principles of game. Guys who are 8, 9's and 10's might get even MORE pussy with game than without, but due to their looks, and the amount of pussy that falls in their laps anyway, I think any increase in their pussy load would be negligible, vis a vis the exponential increase in pussy which a guy who is a 5 or 6 with game would experience. Does that make any sense?

Post: #10

I don't think any guy can handle or would want to get laid 3 times a day 7 days a week. It would take away from other activities. Honestly pussy gets boring after a while. Once you get your get your looks and game in order you have to find a balance between smashing pussy and your other hobbies. I'm ok with banging 2-3 times a week.

I think first you work on getting quantity until you quench your pussy thirst. Then you slowly increase your quality until you find
the right balance.

Post: #11

Being physically attractive is never enough. You're thinking like a man.

If you don't know what to do with a hot prospect, you won't get the lay.

If she expresses interest, rare is the girl who is attractive and determined to make things happen quickly.

Fumbling the pussy is what we call it.

So if she's ready for a reading from the Corinthians, you've got to recognize it, and get her to a pew asap. But if you don't even know it's Sunday and you couldn't find a church you save your soul, it doesn't matter if you have been chosen

WIA

Post: #12

I might be suspected as a troll but I'll go with it anyway.

I'm (probably - my guesstimates) on the 7.5-8.5 scale. I got approached on multiple occasions by women. I notice women looking at me.

On the financial side, I'll rank on the 1% easily (and maybe close to the 0.5%) of the top rich. This is relative to my country which is a poor one.

Here is the good news: I seem to have easier time pulling and attracting women. This is a huge plus when I'm comparing to a peer I'm learning game with. (a really big plus). I feel privileged comparing to him.

Here is the bad news: I never got laid to date. I only managed to get one girl to my apartment (maybe because she was too interested?). You can read about my miserable story here: /thread-36345.html

So what does it give?

Comparing to my peers, I sure have easier time approaching women. Since the last story (the link above), I managed to get a few dates. Girls will go on dates relatively easier with me. But I didn't manage to keep any of them.

Think of game as driving, looks as your car model and money as gas. You have money, you can go more. If you have looks, you can get more attention. But if you don't have game, you won't really go anywhere. (and trust me, you'll feel miserable for wasting such resources).

Post: #13

I'm not denying the fact that many women will fuck a dude based on looks and looks alone but women for the most part aren't quite as visual as guys in that just a pretty face or body will do it for them. Most of them need something else whether it's personality or smarts to find the experience somewhat gratifying, or at the very least just like something else about the guy.

I think the reason women swoon over the George Clooneys and Brad Pitts isn't just the looks but the whole image that goes behind it. Look at Brad Pitt in a movie like True Romance, women drool over him in that movie but if they saw him like that on the street many would probably agree he's attractive but many would also think he's a homeless guy. My point being even the Hollywood celebs women like its as much if not more so the image, wealth and confidence in addition to just looks they are attractive to.

Also looks are so subjective, granted we can all often agree yeah she's traditionally attractive or I can see why a guy might dig her but what's hot to me isn't going to be whats hot to you and it's the same for women.

Looks can only go so far women need more. Look at some average guys who pull women like no other and I have some pretty handsome (no homo) friends but who lack personality and don't do well.

Post: #14

conservative, thanks for your input, but your post kinda confused me. So are you saying that even though your get attention from girls, you can't seem to get laid? OR are you saying that you get laid plenty, but that you can't seem to KEEP the same girl around for an extended period of time?

In other words, is your primary problem with merely getting the pussy, or with KEEPING the pussy? I couldn't tell from your post.

Post: #15

Parlay, well-said. That is the kind of advice I would expect from Roosh himself. I agree with you that the first step for any newbie must be to "quench the pussy thirst." You have to reach a balanced state (a state of "pussy zen", if you will), where you are no longer preoccupied with the thirst. That is to say, you must reach a state where you are no longer incessantly horny. Once you have reached the point where pussy almost becomes "boring", you are free to actually gain the upper hand. You know have the upper hand, because (once you have quenched your initial pussy thirst), you know realize that pussy isn't the "BE ALL AND END ALL."

You are much less likely to put both sex and pussy on a pedestal once you have reached this point, and you are now "free" to simply focus on what TYPE of pussy you really want (as opposed to pursuing pussy simply for the sake of obtaining it). In other words, once your thirst has been quenched and you kinda get bored with pussy, you are the BOSS (in charge of BOTH the pussy and of your own desire/thirst for said pussy). Does that make sense?

Post: #16

(07-06-2014 03:09 PM)Kxty33 Wrote:  conservative, thanks for your input, but your post kinda confused me. So are you saying that even though your get attention from girls, you can't seem to get laid? OR are you saying that you get laid plenty, but that you can't seem to KEEP the same girl around for an extended period of time?

In other words, is your primary problem with merely getting the pussy, or with KEEPING the pussy? I couldn't tell from your post.

Both. I think I mentioned that I never got laid to date. In most of the dates I did, women lost interest very quickly and there was no recurring date/talks.

Post: #17

(07-06-2014 09:33 AM)SydneyD Wrote:  George Clooney has game

No homo but most 'hot' guys without game usually get tied down into marriage or LTRs by very average women or by the first woman to go down on them. No one can slay pussy without game

I agree, being a good looking guy with no game will get you laid, with no effort...once.

Then he'll be in an LTR with that girl, or a subsequently more average girl if the first lay bails on him.

Post: #18

(07-06-2014 09:33 AM)SydneyD Wrote:  No homo but most 'hot' guys without game usually get tied down into marriage or LTRs by very average women or by the first woman to go down on them. No one can slay pussy without game

Pretty much this.

Usually a really good looking guy with no game will get tied down by a girl 3 points below him through some social circle(friends, work, school). At the very least you will have a situation where that guys friends girlfriend will try and hook him up with single girls she knows.

Post: #19

I also think being good looking helps dudes naturally develop game. Guys who are good looking get more attention from women their entire lives. They have far more experience handling chicks by the time they're 18 than the fat kid who smells weird will. The exception is guys who bloom late in life - but even then once they come into their own they'll start getting good with women. Even the ones who get sucked into an LTR tend to develop game as they get older.

Post: #20

Looks are useful, and I believe that you can get away with worse game if you're a male 9 or 10 (basically like a Brad Pitt type). However, you still need to have SOME basic understanding of the principles if you want to get laid. Think about it, Paul Janka is arguably the best looking guy in all of the seduction community. His game doesn't work for other people. He has a 11% success rate.

A guy like Krauser, Roosh, or Yad could never do what Paul Janka does.

Post: #21

Easy answer 7.5+, this is purely on looks not your cloth style, coolness or anything else.

Guys that are a solid 7.5+ in pure looks as a base will get chased after and be allowed beta mistakes often. 8+ and it starts getting ridiculous. Girls starting to act beta and clingy off the bat.

If you think you are a male 7.5+ and never gotten this easy treatment from women you are lying to yourself about how good looking you are in my experience with America. You aren't as good looking as you think hence you need up your game, lift, style etc...

Every guy I know like this has had a GF easily at will that are not dimes but 7+.

Yeah they may need minimal game, but let's put it this way if I was getting those opportunities, my lower level game before finding RVF would easily been enough to nail these girls.

It is a different world for them.

Post: #22

Probably 8.5+ for bars/clubs..

If you are a 7.5-8 on Tinder/OKC you can still fuck without putting much effort. Likely more so than the 8.5 using the bar scene, but the quality of bangs would likely be different.

Post: #23

(07-06-2014 06:05 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  Guys that are a solid 7.5+ in pure looks as a base will get chased after and be allowed beta mistakes often. 8+ and it starts getting ridiculous. Girls starting to act beta and clingy off the bat.

True but this only applies to girls a few points below those men. A guy who is 8+ will not get girls acting beta to them if those girls are also 8+. Women will always have more the advantage over men when they have equal looks. A perfect example of this was last season of Survivor.

The guy below was an abercrombie model yet was a complete dork and the girl below had him early on acting very beta to her.

Post: #24

thanks, for the responses guys. I would still say any guy who is above a 7 gets laid pretty easily, especially in today's culture. Guys who are 5-7 are the ones who really need advice from guys like Roosh if they want to get laid. Those are the guys who really need to work game if they want to start banging on a regular basis, you know?

Post: #25

"Paul Janka is arguably the best looking guy in all of the seduction community."