Post: #1

I waste too much time on the internet.

And the other day - I found a site even weirder that PUAHate.

It is the forum for The Flat Earth Society. I had no idea that people like this still existed. To me - knowing some people still believe the Earth is flat has made my life about ten times more interesting.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/

I love kooky shit like this. I am not even hating on them - since most of us just blindly regurgitate what we have being told by experts.

Very few of us have the knowledge and ability to prove a lot of the things we 'believe' in a rigorous way from first principles.

Anyway - this is a giant area of conspiracy weirdness. And I am going to try and get to to the bottom of why some people still believe the Earth is flat.

There was even an interview (in The Guardian newspaper) with the president of The Flat Earth Society back in 2010:

http://www.theguardian.com/global/2010/f...th-society

Quote:Shenton himself used to accept that the Earth was round, but began ­asking questions after hearing musician Thomas Dolby's 1984 album The Flat Earth. (When Shenton reconvened the society last year, Dolby accepted membership number 00001.) "It was the late 1990s and I started doing research into what the Flat Earth Society was. I had heard of it and, when I did some more research, I eventually ended up believing its ideas were true."

It may sound like Shenton is playing games, that the reborn society is a clever metaphor or marketing tool for another cause – but he insists he is serious.

"I haven't taken this position just to be difficult. To look around, the world does appear to be flat, so I think it is ­incumbent on others to prove ­decisively that it isn't. And I don't think that burden of proof has been met yet."

Anyway - if you have way too much time on your hands. It is quite an interesting ocean of weirdness to go for a swim in...

Post: #2

@Kosko - what is you username over on the forum?

Just kidding, bro!

:-)

Post: #3

Maybe I'm just a sheep but..

Post: #4

Yeah - well - you can prove anything with facts!

Post: #5

But on a serious note - if you were a conspiracy theorist - an image of the Earth doesn't really prove much.

If it took just a single image to disprove a giant conspiracy - Alex Jones would have gone bankrupt years ago.

Post: #6

Sometimes you can be too smart.

Garry Kasparov (the greatest chess player ever) believes most of recorded history is made up.

/thread-29341.html

Post: #7

When I was in grade school, The Flat Earth Society was proffered as the archetypal example of people clinging onto an outmoded opinion in the face of overwhelming, countervailing evidence.

It was held up as the ultimate allegory for blind faith vs. science.

The same education system would then go on to try and indoctrinate us with notions such as there could be no cognitive differences between different human population groups, and that there could be no differences between the sexes--all without a hint of irony.

Post: #8

Face it the earth is flat, and you can fall off it if you travel to far. You end up in Detroit, when you fall off though...

Post: #9

There are those that believe in the concept of a "hollow earth", where either the Earth's center is hollow, or contains more land masses with other advanced races and civilizations and has a "central sun".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth

So yeah.

Post: #10

I respect people who ask really basic questions.

If somebody asked me to prove the Earth was round. I wouldn't know how.

If somebody asked me to show that 1+1=2. I wouldn't know how (to be fair I don't think anyone can).

If somebody asked me to prove that Hitler ever existed. I am not sure how I would do it.

99.99999999999999999999999999999999% of everything we ever know - is ultimately taken on hearsay. It is worth remembering that from time to time.

For all I know America and Britain are 70 miles from each other. And planes just go round in circles for 8 hours - every flight - to give the illusion that the countries are thousands of miles apart.

How would you know otherwise?

Post: #11

People can believe what they want to believe. Its when they have power over others that they become dangerous.

Post: #12

(05-19-2014 08:22 PM)cardguy Wrote:  I respect people who ask really basic questions.

If somebody asked me to prove the Earth was round. I wouldn't know how.

If somebody asked me to show that 1+1=2. I wouldn't know how (to be fair I don't think anyone can).

If somebody asked me to prove that Hitler ever existed. I am not sure how I would do it.

99.99999999999999999999999999999999% of everything we ever know - is ultimately taken on hearsay. It is worth remembering that from time to time.

For all I know America and Britain are 70 miles from each other. And planes just go round in circles for 8 hours - every flight - to give the illusion that the countries are thousands of miles apart.

How would you know otherwise?

When it comes to something like this, always remember that people only perform an action when 2 things intersect:

1. Motive
2. Opportunity

It's easy to throw out almost all conspiracy type theories by looking at #1. Most of the time, what is the motive for something like a round earth conspiracy? What's to be gained? It's the same reason I laugh whenever people talk about Illuminati symbolism in music videos and politics. Is there an illuminati rule that you always have to be making ever-so-vague references to the symbols, for no apparent personal gain?

Then, if you can find a motive, you have to also have the opportunity (which implies ability). If the government can't even keep something as simple as Benghazi a secret, how can they really keep aliens a secret for this long? Incompetence is so much easier to believe than pure evil.

Most misunderstandings of this nature can be explained by an old quote: "do not mistake for malice that which can more easily be explained by ignorance." Aka Occam's Razor.

Post: #13

(05-19-2014 08:22 PM)cardguy Wrote:  For all I know America and Britain are 70 miles from each other. And planes just go round in circles for 8 hours - every flight - to give the illusion that the countries are thousands of miles apart.

I read the other day that cruise voyage companies do something a bit like this.

Apparently on a lot of 'round the world' cruises - you will spend a couple of days travelling from one beach paradise to another.

And since these islands are only a few hours apart - the ships will circle for a day or so in a giant circle - with the next island close by over the horizon to give the illusion to the holiday goers that they are travelling further than they really are.

Psychologically - it must be more powerful to spend a couple of days cruising to the next island than it would to spend a 6 hours.

This is too vague an idea to search for evidence of on Google. But I thought it was an interesting story.

Not sure where I read it though...

Post: #14

(05-21-2014 01:29 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 08:22 PM)cardguy Wrote:  For all I know America and Britain are 70 miles from each other. And planes just go round in circles for 8 hours - every flight - to give the illusion that the countries are thousands of miles apart.

I read the other day that cruise voyage companies do something a bit like this.

Apparently on a lot of 'round the world' cruises - you will spend a couple of days travelling from one beach paradise to another.

And since these islands are only a few hours apart - the ships will circle for a day or so in a giant circle - with the next island close by over the horizon to give the illusion to the holiday goers that they are travelling further than they really are.

Psychologically - it must be more powerful to spend a couple of days cruising to the next island than it would to spend a 6 hours.

This is too vague an idea to search for evidence of on Google. But I thought it was an interesting story.

Not sure where I read it though...

Simple, get on a cruise and record the GPS coordinates with your phone.

Post: #15

Skye Wrote:Maybe I'm just a sheep but..

Duh, obviously photoshopped!

Post: #16

What purpose does telling the public the earth is round serve if it was really flat anyway?

Post: #17

If i recall correctly isnt there a place in south america were you can se the world arc from a mountain or similar or have i just dreamt this.

Post: #18

(05-19-2014 08:22 PM)cardguy Wrote:  If somebody asked me to prove the Earth was round. I wouldn't know how.

Well, we can see Earth's shadow right? That's the different phases of the moon - it's literally the shadow of the Earth falling onto the moon.

And that shadow is always rounded.

Now if the Earth is flat, then from certain angles, the shadow would not be rounded at all, it would be a line-like shadow...

In fact, the only object that will consistently throw down a rounded, ball-like shadow is a sphere...

Hence the Earth must be spherical.

Post: #19

(05-21-2014 02:19 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 08:22 PM)cardguy Wrote:  If somebody asked me to prove the Earth was round. I wouldn't know how.

Well, we can see Earth's shadow right? That's the different phases of the moon - it's literally the shadow of the Earth falling onto the moon.

And that shadow is always rounded.

Now if the Earth is flat, then from certain angles, the shadow would not be rounded at all, it would be a line-like shadow...

In fact, the only object that will consistently throw down a rounded, ball-like shadow is a sphere...

Hence the Earth must be spherical.

the phases of the moon isnt to do with the earth blocking the moons light

Post: #20

(05-19-2014 08:16 PM)Kabal Wrote:  When I was in grade school, The Flat Earth Society was proffered as the archetypal example of people clinging onto an outmoded opinion in the face of overwhelming, countervailing evidence.

It was held up as the ultimate allegory for blind faith vs. science.

The same education system would then go on to try and indoctrinate us with notions such as there could be no cognitive differences between different human population groups, and that there could be no differences between the sexes--all without a hint of irony.

I'm not repping the flat earth theory, but whoever was teaching your class in grade school seems pretty far off the money to me.

Because in our time, Flat Earth Society is not an example of people holding on to an outmoded opinion in the face of evidence at all. It's extremely radical, out-of-the-box thinking that challenges everything that their society tells them. It may be seriously out there, but it's not like they were raised in a society where the earth was considered flat and then they clung to the idea when science presented something different.

Rather, they were raised in a society where the world is round but decided they see something else in the science (or don't see anything in the science at all).

I'd also be very hesitant about dismissing a lot of conspiracy theories as blind faith and ignorance. They are usually rooted in pretty convincing logic and observation, and every piece of "evidence" presented in this thread that should make it obvious (to us) that the Earth is round has no doubt been discussed and challenged, convincingly, at great length by these people.

Not saying they're on to something, but go have a read of what they say, and you might be surprised at how convincing they are. I've never read them, but this is my experience with seemingly whacked-out theories.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #21

I went to their site....and although I agree with your general point Beyond Borders, these people aren't very convincing. The people arguing with them are much more convincing. All the flat earthers do is call the guy giving evidence for a round earth a liar.

I think that forum just made me dumber. [/code]

Post: #22

(05-21-2014 04:49 AM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

(05-21-2014 02:19 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 08:22 PM)cardguy Wrote:  If somebody asked me to prove the Earth was round. I wouldn't know how.

Well, we can see Earth's shadow right? That's the different phases of the moon - it's literally the shadow of the Earth falling onto the moon.

And that shadow is always rounded.

Now if the Earth is flat, then from certain angles, the shadow would not be rounded at all, it would be a line-like shadow...

In fact, the only object that will consistently throw down a rounded, ball-like shadow is a sphere...

Hence the Earth must be spherical.

the phases of the moon isnt to do with the earth blocking the moons light

Cool, I learn something new everyday. I think I misinterpreted something I heard on television once.

EDIT: Oh, I get it now. When you have a lunar eclipse, when the earth's shadow falls on the moon, it is always spherical, hence the earth is round.

Post: #23

What's peculiar to me about Flat Earthers and people who believe the Earth is hollow is that often these are very intelligent people. There is a guy named Brooks Agnew that I've heard on the radio. He claims the planet is hollow and he's trying to lead an expedition with an ice breaker to the north pole. The guy is actually smart and articulate and you wonder how someone of intelligence can believe in such nonsense.

Post: #24

Yeah - there was a recent book about people like that. It was trying to understand why they believe what they do and what it teaches us about human psychology.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Heretics-Adven...e+heretics

Quote:For lovers of Jon Ronson, Adam Buxton and Louis Theroux, a new book that explores why today's heretics just don't believe the facts.

Will Storr was in the tropical north of Australia, excavating fossils with a celebrity creationist, when he asked himself a simple question. Why don't facts work? Why, that is, did the obviously intelligent man beside him sincerely believe in Adam and Eve, the Garden of Eden and a six-thousand-year-old Earth, in spite of the evidence against them?

It was the start of a journey that would lead Storr all over the world - from Texas to Warsaw to the Outer Hebrides - meeting an extraordinary cast of modern heretics whom he tries his best to understand. He goes on a tour of Holocaust sites with David Irving and a band of neo-Nazis, experiences his own murder during 'past life regression' hypnosis, discusses the looming One World Government with iconic climate sceptic Lord Monckton and investigates the tragic life and death of a woman who believed her parents were high priests in a baby-eating cult.

Using a unique mix of highly personal memoir, investigative journalism and the latest research from neuroscience and experimental psychology, Storr reveals how the stories we tell ourselves about the world invisibly shape our beliefs, and how the neurological 'hero maker' inside us all can so easily lead to self-deception, toxic partisanship and science denial.

I keep meaning to read it - but haven't done so yet. There is a chapter on David Irving which is longer than the chapters on the other nutters the author interviews. I am really curious to read that chapter since I feel David Irving keeps changing his tune as regards his claims about the Holocaust - and I am curious to see where he is coming from.

I always had a soft spot for David Irving since he is such a compelling speaker and such a contrarian in all of his opinions. As such - he is always interesting. And on top of that - I am believe every had the right to free speech no matter what they are saying.

In my experience - the nutters are often 99% wrong - but in the 1% that is correct, they often throw up new ideas and interesting stories that you have not come across before. So - I am always happy to listen to a nutter on almost any subject. Which is porbably why I enjoy this forum so much :-)

Post: #25

I find this fascinating, it does make you wonder about all the facts you get from second hand sources as opposed directly experiencing them yourself. I was just about to say it's bizarre how intelligent the people flat earth guys are but I just glanced over Speakeasy's post so I see someone else noticed this too. I read their thread on debunking the belief the earth was round and was stumped with quite a few of their points, they certainly make a case for themselves.