Post: #26

(06-24-2011 09:07 AM)Jersey Wrote:  It's so funny - when I was just getting started in game, I would read G Manifesto stuff and think it was hilarious but insane. He sounded like a crazy fictional character that could never actually exist, and what he suggested was madness.

And now that I know what I'm doing and I'm starting to see the bigger picture: everything he says starts to make sense. All those PUA rules I first learned about not buying girls drinks and ditching girls who ignored me, etc. - they helped when I had no idea what I was doing and was a total beta. But now that I've internalized what it is to be alpha - all of those rules need to be thrown out.

It's almost like we need two entirely separate worlds of discussion going on: one for betas trying to become players, and another for players trying to become pimps. The journey from beginner to intermediate is one about learning rules and technique. You need to do that so you can advance to a point where game starts to become unconscious. It's just like learning a sport.

But once you have all that stuff down, you can then understand the reason why those rules were in place and then ignore them when the reason doesn't apply. When you're progressing from intermediate to advanced game, you can realize that you shouldn't buy a girl a drink because you can't just throw some money at a girl in an attempt to supplicate and hope she becomes attracted to you. And you shouldn't buy a drink for a girl who's just tooling you for a free drink and doesn't care about you. But once you've done this a thousand times, supplicating doesn't even cross your mind and you can just feel the difference between when a girl likes you and when she doesn't. Now that you've internalized the "why", the rules just start getting in the way.

Keep up the good fight, G. I'm not sure how you do it, trying to explain advanced level game vs. the RSD-type angry keyboard jockeys, raging about alpha vs. beta - when alphas would never give a shit about that stuff. (Though we seem to have avoided it so far in this thread.) I need more of this and less posts about throwing the number of some girl who didn't respond to my text in 30 seconds into the fiery pits of hell.

Jersey -

Great post. You really verbalized many of the things I try to say.

The thing is, I have been in The Game since I was a young pup. I have 20 + years in it.

The pua guys have been in it what, 5 years at most?

The "rules" they come up with are things someone in my shoes learned a long time ago, naturally, in high school or at least the beginning of college.

It really is like anything, "rules" are good when you first start out, but when you become an expert, you can throw those in the trash.

When you first learn to box, you should keep your hands up, lead with the jab, double jab etc.

When you become a G Boxer, you can lower your hands, stick out your chin, lead with upper cuts and hooks, hell, even throw bolo punches a la Sugar Ray Leonard.

The rules simply don't apply.

That I think is one of the reasons the stuff I write about has such a huge disconnect with the masses.

I am gunning for titles, not my first win.

I like to give some "Advanced Game" perspective to the people out there.

Post: #27

(06-24-2011 09:07 AM)Jersey Wrote:  It's so funny - when I was just getting started in game, I would read G Manifesto stuff and think it was hilarious but insane. He sounded like a crazy fictional character that could never actually exist, and what he suggested was madness.

And now that I know what I'm doing and I'm starting to see the bigger picture: everything he says starts to make sense. All those PUA rules I first learned about not buying girls drinks and ditching girls who ignored me, etc. - they helped when I had no idea what I was doing and was a total beta. But now that I've internalized what it is to be alpha - all of those rules need to be thrown out.

It's almost like we need two entirely separate worlds of discussion going on: one for betas trying to become players, and another for players trying to become pimps. The journey from beginner to intermediate is one about learning rules and technique. You need to do that so you can advance to a point where game starts to become unconscious. It's just like learning a sport.

But once you have all that stuff down, you can then understand the reason why those rules were in place and then ignore them when the reason doesn't apply. When you're progressing from intermediate to advanced game, you can realize that you shouldn't buy a girl a drink because you can't just throw some money at a girl in an attempt to supplicate and hope she becomes attracted to you. And you shouldn't buy a drink for a girl who's just tooling you for a free drink and doesn't care about you. But once you've done this a thousand times, supplicating doesn't even cross your mind and you can just feel the difference between when a girl likes you and when she doesn't. Now that you've internalized the "why", the rules just start getting in the way.

Keep up the good fight, G. I'm not sure how you do it, trying to explain advanced level game vs. the RSD-type angry keyboard jockeys, raging about alpha vs. beta - when alphas would never give a shit about that stuff. (Though we seem to have avoided it so far in this thread.) I need more of this and less posts about throwing the number of some girl who didn't respond to my text in 30 seconds into the fiery pits of hell.

Jersey,

I have to agree with you 100%... It was a time that i would never buy a woman a drink even when I had money too. Now its no thing, if i am at a lounge and I see some one who style( way of dress mix with way of just being in the moment ) I admire i will send them over a drink male or female. The positive reward sex and money that move have yield for over the last 4 years well worth the money spent.

Your point on beginner and advance reminds me of my freshman english teacher in HS saying NEVER start a sentence with the word because. Then i read a book by some great writer( name escape me at the moment) and he dam near started every sentence with the word because. I ask my english teacher why can he start the sentence with the word because she said "well he is a great writer he can do that, he is allowed to break those rules."

"I need more of this and less posts about throwing the number of some girl who didn't respond to my text in 30 seconds into the fiery pits of hell."

I agree with you we need more of this here...

Post: #28

Can buying a drink be bad if you buy something cheap? For a lot of us buying a girl a drink is more of a problem because we have a scant few dollars for ourselves, and spending some of it on a girl who may or may not pan out can be a tough choice.

Now you ask a girl what she wants because its on you she usually (in my past experience) orders a $15 drink. For me thats damn near 4 of what I was drinking currently, now buying her a rail and soda or a cheap beer I can do, but would that be a bad move because you'd look cheap?

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #29

G and Rasta - thanks.

I wonder how much of it is a function of Roosh writing for such a large audience. His books and blog posts really hit a huge swath of levels - he's writing both for beginners AND for people who are closer to his level. Naturally, it will draw guys that are just starting out - and it very well should.

Although it's funny because the beginners aren't the problem - it's the guys who have been doing this for 6 months and have gotten a taste of what it can do for them. I was in that group too. I remember at the 6 month mark when I got a date and make out with a legit 8-9 girl - I thought "I have this down pat and I need to tell everyone how to do it, because I have expertise." I was so confident. But now, looking back, I cringe at myself and my actions. I was still a newbie. I couldn't go back and read those texts without vomiting, they were so bad and so needy.

Only now do I realize how not advanced I was back then. And because of that, I can realize how far I still have to go. I've only been in the game for about 18 months now after two really long relationships. As little as a few weeks ago, I was in a shockingly bad slump, but after some help from Roosh and also reading this article from one of the Love Systems' blogs, I think I've finally bridged the gap between beginner and intermediate. And it's time, for me at least, to start studying the advanced practitioners.

I've been lurking for a long time here, and I think I'm going to start posting more frequently to fight back some of the angrier, fuck-everything crowd.

Sorry to have taken this thread off on a bit of a tangent from its original topic about the validity of buying drinks - but it's something I've been thinking a lot about the last month and I'm thrilled to see that there are other guys out there that I admire that agree with me. It's a sign that I'm on the right track.

Post: #30

(06-24-2011 06:49 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  Now you ask a girl what she wants because its on you she usually (in my past experience) orders a $15 drink. For me thats damn near 4 of what I was drinking currently, now buying her a rail and soda or a cheap beer I can do, but would that be a bad move because you'd look cheap?

I'd say just get the rail liquor, they'll never know the difference. A dude I know that works at one of the local bars showed me the crap they give to the girls for free on ladies night, and trust me it's like $5 for a huge bottle of vodka. The place still gets packed on those nights...

All girls seem to love either rum or vodka mixed with something sweet like soda or fruit juices. If you get something like that and just give it to them they'll never know how much you paid or how low the quality of the liquor is.

(06-24-2011 01:08 PM)Intl_Rasta Wrote:  Your point on beginner and advance reminds me of my freshman english teacher in HS saying NEVER start a sentence with the word because. Then i read a book by some great writer( name escape me at the moment) and he dam near started every sentence with the word because. I ask my english teacher why can he start the sentence with the word because she said "well he is a great writer he can do that, he is allowed to break those rules."

This is an important life lesson and it translates into many other areas of life aside from game. When you get experienced and good at something you really can break the rules, invest less time and effort, and still do a great job. We tend to attain this type of mastery at anything we habitually do, which would explain why guys who have been in the game for years can feel out when it's appropriate to buy a drink and not get blown out.

Post: #31

If you visit some nightclub in any major city you will see some clowns doing the whole bottle service thing, ultimately it will attract girls that want free drinks. So guys that have the mindset never to buy a girl a drink are only giving off the vibe that they are cheap. If you are cheap then nightclubs are not for you, as the saying goes "go big or go home".
I prefer to lean against a bar drinking my rusty nail, countless girls ask me what I am drinking and how I can drink that drink. I jokingly ask them if they would like a sip or the same drink, they never say yes. If I am feeling the girl and we have had decent conversation I will offer a drink, I mean $5 or a $10 drink will not kill me.
At my local "gentlemans club" the bartender is convinced I am loaded, I have never gone overboard in the place.
Thanks to G, I have locked down a hottie stripper.

Post: #32

Comes down to basic manners IMO and I agree with G. This bullshit about not buying drinks is the biggest crock of shit out. I actually wont keep company with people who will not get their round in, and if you are too broke to go out then either get another job or find another activity.

You are not supplicating when you spend money on a woman. You are supplicating when you spend money to BUY HER APPROVAL. You are supplicating to anyone when you try and buy their approval. There is a massive difference and its a social skill to know what that difference is. Maybe the nerdy, social misfits this community tends to attract is the reason why they struggle with this basic concept so much. They cant differentiate between the two.

If I go to the bar to get a drink, I offer a drink to everyone there. Even someone I just met. The reason why you do this is because you are supposed to include everyone in your social circle and make them feel comfortable too. You also make sure only one person leaves the group to get drinks and if you are being served without a tab then it means one person deals with the waiter. The whole point of it is to eliminate the breaks in conversation that come when people have to constantly leave to buy drinks at a bar.

You take that one step further when you go to dinner or somewhere where there is table service. If it was a group decision to go somewhere, just split the bill down the middle regardless of what you had. And if you knowingly ordered more, offer to pay more. If you see someone only ordered a salad or only a drink or two, tell them they are not paying. If you INVITE someone out, male or female, YOU PAY. They are YOUR GUEST, regardless of the fact that its not in your own home. From time to time, pick up the odd big tab.

If your social circle lives by similar rules then it actually does not cost you more. Sure, bitches have a habit of taking advantage of this shit, but as men we accept that. Its part of the deal. We got brains and balls, they have neither. But as often as you pick up the tab, just as often your friends will.

I have a few simple character tests with people, and one of the major ones is this. How the handle buying drinks, paying a tab, etc. It speaks volumes about a person.

Now with that in mind, if some bitch walks up and asks you to buy her a drink, tell her to get fucked. If a woman walks up to me and asks me if I am going to buy her a drink, my standard response is "Are you going to suck my dick if I do?". I have been kicked out of venues for doing this, I ended up in a brawl in a parking lot once because of this, and I will continue to say it out of principle. That disrespectful behaviour to a stranger is not on and if she wants to act like a whore Ill speak to her like one.

Post: #33

Great insights here on "next level" shit.

The key to drink buying is that it has to be strategic, meaning it's not your default game that you do on every girl you approach. She has to be responding to you in the right way and putting out the signs that buying her the drink would likely deepen the interaction. It's a reward to a girl who's fun to talk with or who you've begun getting intimate with. The safest time to do it is after you've at least made out with her.

Chad: "Can buying a drink be bad if you buy something cheap?" What counts to the girl is the gesture (the buying of X item), not necessarily the cost.

Quote:If you INVITE someone out, male or female, YOU PAY. They are YOUR GUEST, regardless of the fact that its not in your own home. From time to time, pick up the odd big tab.

Yes. If a girl pushes to go to a specific restaurant I say, "Cool are you treating me?" If she's not then we don't go, because if I pay then I get to pick where I want to go (though of course I consider her input). I rather pay to have control over where I spend my time in. If she wants to pay then we go wherever she wants as long as it's not a gay venue.

Post: #34

Hooligan Harry has been breaking down some great data on the forum.

"The whole point of it is to eliminate the breaks in conversation that come when people have to constantly leave to buy drinks at a bar."

Great point.

Here is another thing:

You make a great connection with a beautiful girl, you don't buy her a drink (because you are a pua cheapskate) and she gets hit on by some cat at the bar who occupies her for the entire night.

Missed opportunity. And you only have yourself to blame.

I can't imagine how many times this must happen to the hardline "I never buy girls drinks" pua crowd.

I don't leaving sh*t to chance. I like to be in control, and dictate the action.

And if control costs me $13? I look at that as a bargain.

I have to make my nights pay out. And pay out huge, every time.

Post: #35

Good discussion... Here's another way at looking at this.

Buying a drink helps:

#1. Grease the wheels as G and other guys mentioned. So if the vibe is good you should definitely pop open a bottle of wine, buy a drink, or introduce some form of alcohol.

#2. Establish your financial stability. This is more so the case in "poorer" countries where guys buying drinks it's not such a common occurrence as in the United States.

#3. Shows you're not cheap.

Buying drinks based on GDP.

If you look at the list of countries by GDP. You'll see that most likely drink buying will IN GENERAL bring better results (better ROI) in countries where GDP is 30k or less.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cou...per_capita

Why is that? Countries with higher GDP per capita have a lot more guys with a lot more money to spend, so drink buying doesn't make you stand out as much.

Actually, I think the whole idea of not buying drinks came about because the market was saturated with drink buyers during the golden years of the U.S. economy. So if you think about it like any market, when most guys were buying drinks and doing it for the wrong reasons, it was probably a good time to be that one guy that didn't buy drinks.

Not buying drinks in countries with GDP of 30k or less can actually have a dual negative impact for you guys that are traveling to these places as foreigners. Especially in Latin America. If you don't buy a drink you could be seen as super cheap (they will assume you have money because you're a "gringo/foreigner" in their country), or they'll think you're broke, which for a traveling "gringo" is twice as bad, because it's one thing to be a broke local in latin america, but it's a total other to be a broke gringo.

As with anything all of these things in this post and others are guidelines, ment to guide you to make an educated decision on how to spend your time and money. I buy drinks when I think the return on investment is worth it.

Post: #36

(06-24-2011 10:50 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  I prefer to lean against a bar drinking my rusty nail, countless girls ask me what I am drinking and how I can drink that drink.

Only in America.
Still, I hope your game's cornerstone is not sitting around, waiting for girls to approach you and talk you up.

Post: #37

Dan -

"Actually, I think the whole idea of not buying drinks came about because the market was saturated with drink buyers during the golden years of the U.S. economy. So if you think about it like any market, when most guys were buying drinks and doing it for the wrong reasons, it was probably a good time to be that one guy that didn't buy drinks."

Seems logical.

I'll buy that (so to speak).

Post: #38

G, great post and move. Never thought of buying a drink for a chick because of all the PUA stuff saying never to do it, saw your post and tried it out the other night. It was golden, literally exactly what my game needed. Went chat, dance, makeout, drink. Rinse and repeat, then back to her place. Buying the drink after dancing and making out gave the interaction the perfect push-pull for esclating and made sure the interaction didn't stall. Definitely making it a permanent part of my arsenal. As always, good shit G.

Post: #39

People have said this, and G's blog really captures this; it's not what you say or do that'll get you laid, but how you do what you do or say what you say. I think all the intro stuff, if anything, just turns your mind onto the idea that you're the prize and helps kick the girl off her pedestal, and once you get good you can discard most of it.

Suppose I'm out and I start talking to a girl, and I can tell from her vibe and body language that she's just humoring me; if she says 'Aren't you going to buy me a drink?', then I'll kick into that PUA stuff where I'll walk away or drop a 'neg' or say 'That depends on if you buy me one first.'

But on the inverse, if I'm out and I start talking to a girl and my game is hot, she's loving it, asking me questions and wanting to get to know me, then I'll buy that girl a drink.

Buying a girl a drink is a definite power move, but like other strong moves, don't just do it for the sake of doing it.

Pick your battles wisely. Ask yourself this; 'Will I look cool or like an asshole if I don't buy this girl a drink? Will I look desperate or fun if I do buy this girl a drink?'

Post: #40

(07-03-2011 04:58 PM)JD11 Wrote:  G, great post and move. Never thought of buying a drink for a chick because of all the PUA stuff saying never to do it, saw your post and tried it out the other night. It was golden, literally exactly what my game needed. Went chat, dance, makeout, drink. Rinse and repeat, then back to her place. Buying the drink after dancing and making out gave the interaction the perfect push-pull for esclating and made sure the interaction didn't stall. Definitely making it a permanent part of my arsenal. As always, good shit G.

Nice work.

Strong testimonial for buying drinks.

Making "sure the interaction didn't stall" is a huge part of it.

I always wondered what the "I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever buy girls drinks" guys do when their drink is empty and the girls drink is empty.

Do they just stare at eachother in a stalemate?

Or does the guy say "buy me a drink!" and the girl says "no, you buy me a drink!" and then he says, "no you buy me a drink!, by the way, who lies more, guys or girls?"

And on and on like that for hours.

Thoughts?

Post: #41

(07-04-2011 04:09 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  [quote='JD11' pid='70222' dateline='1309730322']


Or does the guy say "buy me a drink!" and the girl says "no, you buy me a drink!" and then he says, "no you buy me a drink!, by the way, who lies more, guys or girls?"

And on and on like that for hours.

Thoughts?

That's hilarious. I once did that with this Dominican chick i met. I took her for a quick coffee at a bodega and I didn't pay for hers so she gave me this look, she was like, " Really, you didn't pay for mine?" I felt bad like jesus it's a dollar.
To change the subject I said, "So who cheats more, guys or girls?" Good save on that one.

Post: #42

Who the fukk cares about what is Beta, Alpha, Omega, or Chi-Square?

Ok, ok, Chi-Square is a probability and statistics term so I threw that in there. I was a math major so I could not help it.

Everybody has the different angle for their success. Personally, I have no problems with the "provider" game. It hits right at what has been drilled into chicks head since day one. Nobody said that you ACTUALLY HAVE TO PROVIDE for the chick. Let her think that way until you bust that nut.

Ya'll make this shyt harder than it needs to be.

Post: #43

(07-04-2011 08:44 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  Everybody has the different angle for their success. Personally, I have no problems with the "provider" game. It hits right at what has been drilled into chicks head since day one. Nobody said that you ACTUALLY HAVE TO PROVIDE for the chick. Let her think that way until you bust that nut.

Ya'll make this shyt harder than it needs to be.

Uh huh. And how does one play provider game without being a provider? Since when did providers real or imagined get laid anyhow? You talk a big talk but I'm not seeing any detailed break downs on your alleged "easier" method.

Post: #44

(07-04-2011 04:09 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  I always wondered what the "I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever buy girls drinks" guys do when their drink is empty and the girls drink is empty.

They go home.

I know, and have known a few of the "I never buy girls drinks" types over the years. Then there's the guys that don't buy anything for women ever, and they'll talk your ear off about it. Maybe they even use words like "transactional behavior".

What I've learned is that behind all the bullshit guys like this spew, the simple fact is they're broke as hell.

They don't buy drinks for girls, because they can barely afford their own.

Aloha!

Post: #45

(07-05-2011 01:23 AM)Kona Wrote:  Then there's the guys that don't buy anything for women ever, and they'll talk your ear off about it. Maybe they even use words like "transactional behavior".

What I've learned is that behind all the bullshit guys like this spew, the simple fact is they're broke as hell.

They don't buy drinks for girls, because they can barely afford their own.

Coming from a guy that was scamming around this board trying to find an assistant to work an 84 hour per week job for him at LESS THAN HALF LEGAL MINIMUM WAGE that's pretty damn funny.

Post: #46

all in the approach..i did this last week...was buying a round with my buddies and 2 girls were close by they were actually ordering their own drinks...until one smiled at me and i said "do you mind ?"(offering i would get the drinks"..shes like ok..i said my friends will get the patron and give these 2 bar stars some jolly ranchers lol..

the girl's face was like WTF..shes like i was gonna order patron..im like "no you weren't" than you'll be all over the floor and trying to get all on me i couldn't let you do that to yourself"..she LOLd hard..left her friend..and that started off the night..


btw one of my buddies, always drops money on the drinks for girls..they just don't care..they just drink and laugh..because they got freebies

Post: #47

(07-05-2011 01:25 PM)Lumiere Wrote:  

(07-05-2011 01:23 AM)Kona Wrote:  Then there's the guys that don't buy anything for women ever, and they'll talk your ear off about it. Maybe they even use words like "transactional behavior".

What I've learned is that behind all the bullshit guys like this spew, the simple fact is they're broke as hell.

They don't buy drinks for girls, because they can barely afford their own.

Coming from a guy that was scamming around this board trying to find an assistant to work an 84 hour per week job for him at LESS THAN HALF LEGAL MINIMUM WAGE that's pretty damn funny.

Post: #48

(07-05-2011 01:25 PM)Lumiere Wrote:  [quote='Kona' pid='70517' dateline='1309847009']
Then there's the guys that don't buy anything for women ever, and they'll talk your ear off about it. Maybe they even use words like "transactional behavior".

What I've learned is that behind all the bullshit guys like this spew, the simple fact is they're broke as hell.

They don't buy drinks for girls, because they can barely afford their own.


Coming from a guy that was scamming around this board trying to find an assistant to work an 84 hour per week job for him at LESS THAN HALF LEGAL MINIMUM WAGE that's pretty damn funny.

I'll smack the fuck out of you so shut the fuck up... I'll be damned thats post 808 for me! Defend Hawaii!

Aloha!

Post: #49

(07-09-2011 05:12 AM)Kona Wrote:  I'll smack the fuck out of you so shut the fuck up.

Aloha!

Dont be angry with me. You are embarrasing yourself.

Post: #50

(07-09-2011 05:19 AM)Lumiere Wrote:  

(07-09-2011 05:12 AM)Kona Wrote:  I'll smack the fuck out of you so shut the fuck up.

Aloha!

Dont be angry with me. You are embarrasing yourself.

You'll be when I smoke your faggot ass. Anywhere. I got the money. After you can sleep on the couch of the suite I rent.

Aloha!