Post: #1

Men have always paid dearly for sex - in one way or another. The gamers (aka players) do it with time and energy and so do the regular Joe's. A businessman may pay for it with gifts or direct payment in cash. Either way we are paying for it. Traditionally women wanted access to resources (money etc.) that men had and controlled and trade sex to get it via some sort of transactional relationship model.

Now, things are bit different. A lot of women no longer need us for access to resources or money. In many cases they have access to more than us. As women become more masculine in their outlook they have started to view sex more and more like men do. That is, they want the freedom to have sex whenever they want with whoever they want. The modern woman wants sex BUT she wants it at her convenience and with the best looking guys she can get. Essentially same as us. The big difference though is that while men traditionally paid for sex in one way or other - we are giving it to women for free! A woman text us to come over and we are only too happy to comply and what do we get in return? Nothing. Once she has got what she wanted she kicks us out and we may never hear from her again. We are essentially giving women the only thing they want from us for FREE! We are like cheap prostitutes.

If a woman is under 30 and not looking for marriage or kids and she has a fairly decent job what does she need from us? Just two things: validation and sex. And both of them we gladly give away for free. If you believe in the transactional relationship model then what are we getting in return from women today? This really hit me the other night when at 4am in the morning this American woman informed me that she wasn't finish having sex as yet after I told her I was tired. She told me to go take a Viagra or something and when I told her that doesn't give you energy. She then told me to take a Red Bull with it. Or another time this girl told me right after sex, the Kardashians are going to be on soon - meaning, it's was time for me to leave. More and more I am beginning to feel like a cheap prostitute. If we think we are fucking these girls, we are delusional. It is we who are getting fucked and since we are still clinging to our outdated "conqueror/notch" mentally we don't even realize it.

We are giving away for free the only things women want from us today: our validation and sex. I don't know about you but I don't like feeling like a cheap prostitute.
More and more, modern men, are acting like women and they don't even realize it. We are acting the way women did 20+ years ago. We feel we have to look good and perform good sexually for women. Think about it, this was exactly how women felt 20+ years ago.

Post: #2

It may be a bit different in your situation, but I would have got up and walked out had a girl tried to tell me get a redbull like it was my duty to fuck her.

Regardless good post. Im trying to decieve myself into thinking that I still did conquer my notches at the moment. So your writing obviously struck a chord.

Post: #3

She did say it in a nice way. The girls don't even care what my name is or anything about me. It use to be that after we had sex with a girl we could expect some affection, love, easier sex - not anymore. Sex was the hill that had to be climbed to get to the lake on the other side. Sex today has about the same meaning as a make out did five years ago and a make out has also no meaning now.

Post: #4

Quote: I told her I was tired. She told me to go take a Viagra or something and when I told her that doesn't give you energy. She then told me to take a Red Bull with it. Or another time this girl told me right after sex, the Kardashians are going to be on soon - meaning, it's was time for me to leave.

Post: #5

(04-19-2014 11:32 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  She did say it in a nice way. The girls don't even care what my name is or anything about me. It use to be that after we had sex with a girl we could expect some affection, love, easier sex - not anymore. Sex was the hill that had to be climbed to get to the lake on the other side. Sex today has about the same meaning as a make out did five years ago and a make out has also no meaning now.

I don't really know what your problem is. So sex has no meaning for the girl? And why is that a problem? If you're a cool guy the girl will still feel affection & attraction for you.

Post: #6

lol, I can't remember the last time I have gotten some real affection from an American girl. Their concept of affection is paying for half of dinner at which you get to listen to all of the BS problems for one hour. But hey, a lot of guys, who don't get much sex are more than happy to get some - even if it's not much better than fucking a hooker. I smile when I hear guys go: I went to the gym and worked out today, I'm feeling in a good mood. I think I am going to be able to perform good tonight. That's what we have become: performers for the entertainment of women

Post: #7

(04-19-2014 11:18 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Men have always paid dearly for sex - in one way or another. The gamers (aka players) do it with time and energy and so do the regular Joe's. A businessman may pay for it with gifts or direct payment in cash. Either way we are paying for it. Traditionally women wanted access to resources (money etc.) that men had and controlled and trade sex to get it via some sort of transactional relationship model.

Now, things are bit different. A lot of women no longer need us for access to resources or money. In many cases they have access to more than us. As women become more masculine in their outlook they have started to view sex more and more like men do. That is, they want the freedom to have sex whenever they want with whoever they want. The modern woman wants sex BUT she wants it at her convenience and with the best looking guys she can get. Essentially same as us. The big difference though is that while men traditionally paid for sex in one way or other - we are giving it to women for free! A woman text us to come over and we are only too happy to comply and what do we get in return? Nothing. Once she has got what she wanted she kicks us out and we may never hear from her again. We are essentially giving women the only thing they want from us for FREE! We are like cheap prostitutes.

If a woman is under 30 and not looking for marriage or kids and she has a fairly decent job what does she need from us? Just two things: validation and sex. And both of them we gladly give away for free. If you believe in the transactional relationship model then what are we getting in return from women today? This really hit me the other night when at 4am in the morning this American woman informed me that she wasn't finish having sex as yet after I told her I was tired. She told me to go take a Viagra or something and when I told her that doesn't give you energy. She then told me to take a Red Bull with it. Or another time this girl told me right after sex, the Kardashians are going to be on soon - meaning, it's was time for me to leave. More and more I am beginning to feel like a cheap prostitute. If we think we are fucking these girls, we are delusional. It is we who are getting fucked and since we are still clinging to our outdated "conqueror/notch" mentally we don't even realize it.

We are giving away for free the only things women want from us today: our validation and sex. I don't know about you but I don't like feeling like a cheap prostitute.

That's deep.

My solution was to leave the country. There's still many countries where women are not like this and would find this behavior to be shocking. As an added benefit, they're also not fat, have no tattoos, and consider the initiation of sex, and sexual aggressiveness, part of the man's sphere.

To me, these women you describe are basically men with tiny dicks.

Post: #8

That's the easy solution and I do have that option but that won't change anything here. That's basically running away from the problem. I don't know about you guys BUT a big part of my transactional relationship model was some love, affection, and care and some decent sex. There is a big difference when a girl is trying to please you vs believing that you are the one who is suppose to be pleasing her.

Post: #9

I think you could re-frame some of these situations to give you the upper hand.

Abundance Mentality is often talked about on this forum--for a good reason. Girl treats you in a demeaning manner you dump her because there is always another girl around the corner.

Lets look at how you could re-frame the situation above

For example--chick calls you up and says come over ASAP for sex. This is a demanding request, which gives her the upper hand if you comply. Rather than dropping whatever you are doing and racing over to her house, you tell her you are currently busy (working, out on errands, etc). But, if she is interested she can come over later that night to your place(also ask her to stop and bring a bottle of alcohol). She will have to show some sort of investment in you. The most important being her time and effort to travel to you.

Regarding the 4am wakeup for sex. I don't let women sleep over if they are at my house. I have 2 dogs and chronic insomnia (even with sleeping medication) so anything that disrupts my normal equilibrium is not allowed. If you say this in a sincere manner, most girls do not take offense.

If I am at their house I leave after sex and cuddle time is over. I am done and need to go to sleep. Again I use the insomnia and the fact I have to get back to my dogs as a legitimate excuse to leave.

As you can probably tell from my post I am not willing to trade my dignity just for the bang. Otherwise you are simply playing into her frame, which gives her all of the control in the situation.

Post: #10

What I am saying is that we are doing all of this "gaming" stuff for what? To get sex from women? It's what they want anyway. They just want it on their terms. For me, sex was only one of the things I got from women, now it's the only thing I feel I am getting from them and it's not even that good because they no longer know how to GIVE. The modern women only knows how to TAKE.

I am no longer seducing women, are you kidding me! Here is a typical interaction:

Woman: I am a private banker.
Me: What is a private banker?
Woman: I help rich people spend their money.
Me: Must be nice.
Women: Ye, it has it's perks but I work a lot and don't get to go out that much. I am down here visiting my friend for the weekend. I just want to relax and have some fun. (At this point she is standing so close her breast is touching my chest.)

Game over. She is basically telling you exactly what she wants.

Post: #11

If you don't feel like you're getting a fair deal, I agree, stop making the deal.

As for me, I feel like getting sex is a fair trade for her to receive sex. You act like this is one sided. Both people are getting sex. Again, if you want more, demand more.

Post: #12

That was an intense post, I admire your honesty, Nomad.

(04-19-2014 11:18 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  A lot of women no longer need us for access to resources or money. In many cases they have access to more than us. As women become more masculine in their outlook they have started to view sex more and more like men do. That is, they want the freedom to have sex whenever they want with whoever they want. The modern woman wants sex BUT she wants it at her convenience and with the best looking guys she can get.

Agreed, this is to no surprise though. They don't need access to resources or money since they are supported by the welfare state/taxes, the communal pot we all contribute towards by having a job. Nonetheless, 'no longer need us' is a very absolute and polarizing statement. Think about it.

Just today, I saw at least 8 girls who with with under-average/beta/callitwhatyouwant guys who had either resources, money or access to either. I believe that the 'currency' has just 'gained' value and more women have become aware of this i.e currency = sex. Especially in the masculine-throttling society we live in, even more emphasis is placed on sex.

Quote:The big difference though is that while men traditionally paid for sex in one way or other - we are giving it to women for free! A woman text us to come over and we are only too happy to comply and what do we get in return? Nothing.

I digress, its a two way street. You're exchanging your physical 'gift' + validation/long-term esteem building for sex. What you choose to gain from the interaction is up to you and how you view this girl in relation to your 'internal-value' ranking system. What boxes does she check? How does her presence make you feel? Do you think about her when she's not around (this is how people fall in love IMO)?

If you really wanted to, you would find a good 'gift' for yourself. That is the beauty of the woman, she can provide you anything you want as long as you delude yourself that its what you are looking for.

Quote:If a woman is under 30 and not looking for marriage or kids and she has a fairly decent job what does she need from us? Just two things: validation and sex. And both of them we gladly give away for free. If you believe in the transactional relationship model then what are we getting in return from women today? This really hit me the other night when at 4am in the morning this American woman informed me that she wasn't finish having sex as yet after I told her I was tired. She told me to go take a Viagra or something and when I told her that doesn't give you energy. She then told me to take a Red Bull with it. Or another time this girl told me right after sex, the Kardashians are going to be on soon - meaning, it's was time for me to leave. More and more I am beginning to feel like a cheap prostitute. If we think we are fucking these girls, we are delusional. It is we who are getting fucked and since we are still clinging to our outdated "conqueror/notch" mentally we don't even realize it.

We are giving away for free the only things women want from us today: our validation and sex. I don't know about you but I don't like feeling like a cheap prostitute.
More and more, modern men, are acting like women and they don't even realize it. We are acting the way women did 20+ years ago. We feel we have to look good and perform good sexually for women. Think about it, this was exactly how women felt 20+ years ago.

I get the idea that these women aren't respecting your time. A woman choosing the Kardashians over your company. As much as I believe the power of TV is overpowering on a lot of people, given the circumstances that seems insane.

The situation remains the same but I choose to apply a differnet lens towards it. Let's face it. Every human interaction is transactional. Your friendships, no matter how tight they are are transactional. Your relationships with women even more so. Hence you have guys googling 'game' trying to get their shit together. Game gives you more currency. If women are using sex as currency, it's only natural that we are using game to acquire more currency for the sex that we primally want.

If sex is what women want, whats wrong with that? Whats wrong with the terms. I don't know about you but I am 22 and full of testosterone and all I want is sex. A woman's femininity is enough to get my blood boiling. I'll gladly trade this, with my respect intact using 'game'.

Of course, I may be too young to see beyond that but please correct me if I am mistaken; you have reached a pretty decent level in which you are feeling disillusioned that you can see the fakeness, the games and the bullshit. This is the reality of it though isn't it? Isn't this what we have read, heard and imagined about?

An aspect of game is the ability to read peoples' intentions and their congruence in actions.

The modern women only knows how to take but moreso, so does the modern human being. Not having to work for much, we have automatically become takers. We have undoubtedly become infinitely dumber amongst other things, in the first world, thanks to society. People my age discuss E! Entertainment and instagram. For this, I seek company with older groups. The same should apply to you. Look for the more cultured groups.

I made another post concerning how to be funny in which I was questioned on my humour for being dumb. If I am meeting new people, you automatically have to meet them on the level you feel them to be.

Apply this to women. Stop expecting so much. Throughout this thread it seems if you're anticipating women to reward your seduction with something apart from sex.

All I am asking is.. What are you looking for? You will find it if you're looking for it; through delusion or genuine chance and she fulfills your standards.

The modern man is a 'deal-accepter' rather than a ho. He accepts the proposals of women rather than attracting them given the saturation of thirsty men in the market.

p.s. You seem as if you are unhappy with the quality of women you are spending your time with; this would explain why you feel 'used' for your sex. Switch it up, try and find different categories of women.

Post: #13

I totally get what you're saying and it's what many guys would call "a good problem to have". I view this as a glass half empty-half full kind of argument. She was looking to give away her pussy, and for some reason she and the others keep on choosing you!

Even if American are becoming more masculine, they cannot completely fight nature and fuck a guy for which they feel absolutely nothing physically or emotionally. At the end of the day you're a winner because they are choosing you to give away pussy.

Unfortunately, I cannot offer you any hindsight since I've never reached this level in the game where pussy doesn't give you that glow anymore. Personally, I think that you might need chill for a while and see where you want to go gaming wise or maybe go the Roosh way to EE.

I truly think that you might need to PM some known heavyweights for good insight on this since not to many of us have encountered this

Post: #14

Quote: As women become more masculine in their outlook they have started to view sex more and more like men do. That is, they want the freedom to have sex whenever they want with whoever they want. The modern woman wants sex BUT she wants it at her convenience and with the best looking guys she can get. Essentially same as us. The big difference though is that while men traditionally paid for sex in one way or other - we are giving it to women for free!

Huh should we get paid for sex? Sound like a comparatively luxury problem.

Ok, seems like you have a similiar topic like last time. Good looking guys get special service. The not top 10 percent guys get some bad service. We all have only the solution to go to "poosy" countries if we are not lookers.

Post: #15

A transaction implies that you are giving something in order to get something in return. I was never just interested in sex. What I want from women is what I have always wanted and what they use to offer: affection, love, femininity, and pleasure (notice I didn't use the word sex). Sex is just a physical act. I can buy sex and to some degree I can buy pleasure but it's very difficult to buy the other things. Modern men think they do not need love and affection but it's a well established truth that deprived of it we become mentally unbalanced - messed up. Babies deprived of the simple act of human touch and affection become neurotic.

The modern American woman is almost no longer capable of giving me these things. I cannot demand from her what she does not have to give. I have never been a fan of pornstar like sex with little to no emotions and that is what you get these days. I am over 30 and I didn't grow up in this country. I am sure the younger guys are more use to these women and more accepting of the situations because that is all they have known. But trust me, it use to be so much better...

To me, this is not much better than being with a prostitute. The only difference is that I don't have to listen to a prostitute BS for hours and I don't have to pleasure her. She is one that is suppose to pleasure me. Think of it as massage. In my view, the modern man is the one doing the massaging most of the time not the one getting it.

Post: #16

Good post Nomad,

After reading through I have a bit of an altered perspective now. But I still feel that many betas engage in parasitic relationships and thus feel like sex (and everything else in life) is transactional i.e I pay rent = we fuck once a week but they settle for this feeling like its the natural order of things. Granted however thats why they have so many titles bestowed upon them like white knight, provider blah blah blah. Meanwhile their "love interest" is off receiving alpha cock on the regular, I would go on about this but I would just be regurgitating whats been established for a decade on the manosphere.

CEO

Post: #17

Thanks. We are not thinking about or making a stand for what we want, we are just catering to women. The sum total of all Western Game is exactly that. Oh women like this now, so I am going to do that. Women want rough sex, ok, I am going to give them rough sex. At no point, do we ever question whether we actually enjoy doing these things or not. Our whole mentally, including Game, is about catering to women whether we realize it or not. Women decided to like somewhat feminine men and now you have a whole bunch of men running around with nerdy glasses.

The "Red Pill" is suppose to allow you to see the world as it is. We may be seeing the world as it is but we are allowing women to define it!

Post: #18

(04-19-2014 12:11 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Woman: I am a private banker.
Me: What is a private banker?
Woman: I help rich people spend their money.
Me: Must be nice.
Women: Ye, it has it's perks but I work a lot and don't get to go out that much. I am down here visiting my friend for the weekend. I just want to relax and have some fun. (At this point she is standing so close her breast is touching my chest.)

Game over. She is basically telling you exactly what she wants.

You shouldn't be asking her what she does for a living and if she's just going to tell you anyway you should be teasing/mocking her for doing so.

If you're letting the woman dictate the interaction therein lies the problem.

Props for the honesty though.

Post: #19

(04-19-2014 11:18 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  More and more I am beginning to feel like a cheap prostitute. If we think we are fucking these girls, we are delusional. It is we who are getting fucked and since we are still clinging to our outdated "conqueror/notch" mentally we don't even realize it. (...) More and more, modern men, are acting like women and they don't even realize it.

Here's what Jack Donovan wrote a couple of years ago:

Quote:Andy Nowicki wrote that if men really wanted to undermine the matriarchy, they would stop fucking. He may have his own (possibly religious) reasons for saying so, but I think he has a point.

Our feminist, globalist handlers would love nothing more than to keep young men — the most dangerous and potentially revolutionary group in any civilization – completely distracted by tang. And while it may feel like asserting dominance (in conveniently the most harmless way possible), if everything you do is designed to make you more appealing to women, you’re an eager vibrator. When your muscle is just for show, when everything you do is to make yourself more desirable, you’re playing the female role. When your worth as a man depends on how many women you can lure to your loins, you’re just a gigolo.

As Hunter S. Thompson noted, sex is the most fun for amateurs. It’s great when you’re young, pretty, naïve and carefree — but “old whores don’t do much giggling.”

Post: #20

That is exactly my point. Thanks! The only power I feel I have over women today, IS actually withholding sex and validation. Since it's the only thing they want it's the only thing that we have to bargain with. This was exactly what women did 20+ years ago - withheld sex for whatever they wanted.

Jack Donovan - "The problem isn’t what happens to a few players, but what we become as a society when everyone wants to be a player. Libertinism used to be a form of rebellion, but increasingly, it’s part of the program. In a society where sex and attractiveness are the highest values, what happens to the other two-thirds of the curve?"

Post: #21

(04-19-2014 03:45 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  That is exactly my point. Thanks! The only power I feel I have over women today, IS actually withholding sex and validation. Since it's the only thing they want it's the only thing that we have to bargain with. This was exactly what women did 20+ years ago - withheld sex for whatever they wanted.

Yeah but you can do that if you want. Nobody is forcing you to have sex. In the example above, it's your decision to either go forward with the girl and hook up, or you just say no. If you feel "used" afterwards, you clearly weren't that into the girl in the first place. Because if you had been, it would have been a fair deal - she got sex and you got sex, you both enjoyed it and had a good time, so everything is fine.

If you want "more" than sex and she doesn't - well too bad, but that's just the way it is sometime. In earlier times she probably wouldn't have had sex with you - now she does - but that doesn't necessarily mean that she is in love with you or wants to spend too much time with you. Well, there are worse things than that.

You still need to find as person you click with and get along with for a longer term relationship that goes beyond sex. It's just that nowadays it's easier to have casual sex.

Also, you cannot tell me that there are NO girls that show affection for a guy they're into. Maybe you're just meeting the wrong people or hanging out in the wrong circles.

Post: #22

Life, or the good life, is always relative. Just look at the millions of people that eat at McDonald's every day. The vast majority of sex that's happening in America today is just as fast and has just about as much substance. I guess if you like your sex the same way you like your food then modern day America is the place for you - no need to change anything.

Post: #23

Stop fcuking American women. This will eliminate most of your problems.

Post: #24

I don't think you can trick or manipulate the average American woman to be more caring, loving and feminine

As mentioned in Lars Von Triers movie Nymphomaniac, the secret ingredient to sex is love. With love, sex becomes sacred, healing and literally magic (in its transformative potential).

It has always been and will always be like that.

This growing inability to share love in Western modern societies is the sign of a great dangerous perturbation.

As a religious would say, Satan is starting to win the game

Post: #25

@Menace Actually no it won't. American culture is rapidly spreading throughout the rest of the world.

When did it become something to aspire to enjoy choking, slapping, calling a woman a slut and a whore, and making her gag on your dick and then cumming on her face. When did this become good sex? You have to be mentally retarded and fucked up to enjoy this shit. There is nothing emotionally healthy about it. Yet, this is what men today aspire to be, the kind of man that can not only do this but actually enjoys doing it. We are actually telling men to become a sadist. No, we are telling boys to become gigolo's that enjoy sadistic sex. And when I say we I am including women in there too and if you have any doubt about this just look at the success of 50 Shades of Grey.