But seriously. I don't think Obama or David Cameron can actually handle this shit.
David Cameron couldn't even beat Gordon Brown in an election. So - something tells me he is not going to win in a geopolitical game of chicken with Putin.
They are out of their depths.
03-18-2014 04:55 PM
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Big Nilla
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(03-18-2014 04:10 PM)Teedub Wrote: Putin's speech today was brilliant. Even my parents were saying so. Even they are on Russia's side now in regards to the sanctions etc.
Oh, they're just going through a homo-erotic phase for Vlad... just like most of us. They'll get over it.
03-18-2014 05:14 PM
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jimukr104
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It starts off with Crimean history and then moves into highlighting American hypocrisy:
Quote:I do not like to resort to quotes, but in this case, I cannot help it. Here is a quote from another official document: the Written Statement of the United States America of April 17, 2009, submitted to the same UN International Court in connection with the hearings on Kosovo. Again, I quote: “Declarations of independence may, and often do, violate domestic legislation. However, this does not make them violations of international law.” End of quote. They wrote this, disseminated it all over the world, had everyone agree and now they are outraged. Over what? The actions of Crimean people completely fit in with these instructions, as it were. For some reason, things that Kosovo Albanians (and we have full respect for them) were permitted to do, Russians, Ukrainians and Crimean Tatars in Crimea are not allowed. Again, one wonders why.
We keep hearing from the United States and Western Europe that Kosovo is some special case. What makes it so special in the eyes of our colleagues? It turns out that it is the fact that the conflict in Kosovo resulted in so many human casualties. Is this a legal argument? The ruling of the International Court says nothing about this. This is not even double standards; this is amazing, primitive, blunt cynicism. One should not try so crudely to make everything suit their interests, calling the same thing white today and black tomorrow. According to this logic, we have to make sure every conflict leads to human losses.
That last sentence... the USA is good at doing that.
It starts off with Crimean history and then moves into highlighting American hypocrisy:
Quote:I do not like to resort to quotes, but in this case, I cannot help it. Here is a quote from another official document: the Written Statement of the United States America of April 17, 2009, submitted to the same UN International Court in connection with the hearings on Kosovo. Again, I quote: “Declarations of independence may, and often do, violate domestic legislation. However, this does not make them violations of international law.” End of quote. They wrote this, disseminated it all over the world, had everyone agree and now they are outraged. Over what? The actions of Crimean people completely fit in with these instructions, as it were. For some reason, things that Kosovo Albanians (and we have full respect for them) were permitted to do, Russians, Ukrainians and Crimean Tatars in Crimea are not allowed. Again, one wonders why.
We keep hearing from the United States and Western Europe that Kosovo is some special case. What makes it so special in the eyes of our colleagues? It turns out that it is the fact that the conflict in Kosovo resulted in so many human casualties. Is this a legal argument? The ruling of the International Court says nothing about this. This is not even double standards; this is amazing, primitive, blunt cynicism. One should not try so crudely to make everything suit their interests, calling the same thing white today and black tomorrow. According to this logic, we have to make sure every conflict leads to human losses.
That last sentence... the USA is good at doing that.
It reminds me of Bravehearts speech when he demands that the noble kiss all the asses while they leave scotland.
Putin basically let the west know how they have been treated for the last 20 years.
But what will come of it? Now Mc cain gets to rob our tax money for a self imposed new coldwar.
03-18-2014 11:33 PM
RexImperator
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Putin Wrote:Here is a quote from another official document: the Written Statement of the United States America of April 17, 2009, submitted to the same UN International Court in connection with the hearings on Kosovo. Again, I quote: “Declarations of independence may, and often do, violate domestic legislation. However, this does not make them violations of international law.” End of quote. They wrote this, disseminated it all over the world, had everyone agree and now they are outraged. Over what?
(03-19-2014 07:56 AM)RexImperator Wrote: This is just going to strengthen the hand of neocons in the US.
After over 1 teradollar wasted and some 7,000 U.S. KIA in Afghanistan and Iraq, does anyone still take the neocons seriously? They promise a lot, but deliver very little.
"The great secret of happiness in love is to be glad that the other fellow married her." – H.L. Mencken
03-19-2014 11:30 AM
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samsamsam
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I agree enough with the neocons. I appreciate a strong military but let's use it when necessary.
I think it seems the guy who moves first always seem to have the advantage. Putin made the land grab. Everyone knows the next move will trigger a series of events.
Like in football, it is often the second guy who gets the penalty. The first guy usually gets away with it.
Fate whispers to the warrior, "You cannot withstand the storm." And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm."
Women and children can be careless, but not men - Don Corleone
(03-19-2014 11:36 AM)samsamsam Wrote: Putin made the land grab. Everyone knows the next move will trigger a series of events.
If Putin really wanted to mindfuck everyone, he could claim that now that he has Crimea, which is historically Russian, he is returning Kaliningrad to Germany, so the Germans can have East Prussia back. Never going to happen, of course.
"The great secret of happiness in love is to be glad that the other fellow married her." – H.L. Mencken
03-19-2014 11:44 AM
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jimukr104
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(03-19-2014 07:56 AM)RexImperator Wrote: This is just going to strengthen the hand of neocons in the US.
After over 1 teradollar wasted and some 7,000 U.S. KIA in Afghanistan and Iraq, does anyone still take the neocons seriously? They promise a lot, but deliver very little.
They were behind the support of protests in Ukraine and elsewhere.
Now they will gain more power due to saying they were right. But the Kremlin hawks also are technically correct saying America is trying to enclose them.
I see the possibility of a more hawkish leadership after Putin.. if peace isn't made.Stalin 2 vs ?
03-19-2014 12:02 PM
Icarus
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Like we didn't know that was coming. Monkeys in Washington advising I bet.
This will just make the East and South more angry at Kiev..since they all have family that visits ,etc.
Also RU can devastate the Ukrainian economy(can it get worst?). 12% of Ukraine's GDP is from Ukrainians who work in Russia. Send them ALL home!
The Ukraine egg head PM head will look good on a pike!
Quote:[The West] are constantly trying to sweep us into a corner because we have an independent position, because we maintain it and because we call things like they are and do not engage in hypocrisy. But there is a limit to everything. And with Ukraine, our western partners have crossed the line, playing the bear and acting irresponsibly and unprofessionally.
Putin suggests Russia had to do this out of self preservation than a land grab:
Quote:Russia found itself in a position it could not retreat from. If you compress the spring all the way to its limit, it will snap back hard. You must always remember this.
[...]
Let me note too that we have already heard declarations from Kiev about Ukraine soon joining NATO. What would this have meant for Crimea and Sevastopol in the future? It would have meant that NATO’s navy would be right there in this city of Russia’s military glory, and this would create not an illusory but a perfectly real threat to the whole of southern Russia. These are things that could have become reality were it not for the choice the Crimean people made, and I want to say thank you to them for this.
In the meanwhile, John Kerry responds with snark worthy of Jezebel:
Quote:"Russia has an enormous historical connection to Ukraine," Kerry said. "We know this, but that doesn't legitimize just taking what you want because you want it or because you're angry about the end of the Cold War or the end of the Soviet Union."
Quote:I like the videos but does it seem like the guy has an anti Russian bias?
Because he does
Vice is owned by Fox, an American company.
Fox has a 5% ownership stake in Vice and, as far as I know, the co-founders Shane Smith and Suroosh Alvi (both Canucks) maintain majority ownership. Vice has also partnered with CNN in the past. If anything, I'd describe their ideological bias as nihilist, rather than pro-Western, which frequently comes across as anti- whatever they're reporting on.
I can't have sex with your personality, and I can't put my penis in your college degree, and I can't shove my fist in your childhood dreams, so why are you sharing all this information with me?
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2014 11:17 PM by Soma.)
03-19-2014 11:14 PM
Tex Pro
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"Ukraine crisis: State TV boss forced to resign"
"The acting chief executive of Ukraine's state broadcaster has been forced to sign a resignation letter - by MPs who broke into his office.
The group of men, from the far-right Svoboda party, were angry with Oleksandr Panteleymonov's decision to broadcast a ceremony from the Kremlin on Tuesday.
It showed Russian President Putin signing a bill to make Ukraine's Crimea region part of Russia.
(03-20-2014 03:19 AM)calwinston Wrote: "Ukraine crisis: State TV boss forced to resign"
"The acting chief executive of Ukraine's state broadcaster has been forced to sign a resignation letter - by MPs who broke into his office.
The group of men, from the far-right Svoboda party, were angry with Oleksandr Panteleymonov's decision to broadcast a ceremony from the Kremlin on Tuesday.
It showed Russian President Putin signing a bill to make Ukraine's Crimea region part of Russia.
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