(03-06-2014 02:35 AM)friheten Wrote:  

(03-05-2014 07:46 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I believe some work is being done to allow for decentralized exchanges in which people could trade bitcoins directly without giving up their bitcoins except for when they engage in trading. Forms of direct exchanges. There may be other solutions to these security issues, as well. It seems that there are various minds in the bitcoin space thinking about various ways to improve bitcoin transactions, the control of coins and ultimately ease of use.

Mastercoin decentralized exchange will be released in eight days,.

Friheten, you may want to consider providing a link to the project about which you are referring.. .if there is such a link?

To me, from reading this link, it appears that there are quite a few ways that Mastercoin could facilitate a sort of decentralized exchange that could be used with bitcoins and other fiat currencies or crypto currencies... one of which would be to use color coins and accordingly, guys would NOT have to entrust their BTC to a third party for the trading portion - however, they may need to go through a third party to convert at some point into fiat.

Though I could foresee that exchange systems could be set up that the conversion to fiat would be left up to the bitcoin holders. These kinds of systems do seem very feasible b/c it would allow for the trading of whatever fiat or cryptos based on then values of the coins relative to one another and then some guys would be betting that the values of the certain coins would go up relative to others and other guys would be betting that the values of certain coins would go down relative to others... and in the end they would earn more or fewer BTC as a result.

It seems that there remain a lot of interesting developments on the horizon in these regards.

By the way: I did want to mention that I noticed the name of this thread had changed.

Anyone know the story? Is this NOW the official RVF bitcoin thread.. anything bitcoin? hehehe...

In this thread, we had been talking bitcoin and other crypto currencies, but that may have been too obscure a name for some RVF'ers to fathom?

So has anyone made any decent money trading on the volatility of BTC ?

(03-06-2014 01:49 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Friheten, you may want to consider providing a link to the project about which you are referring.. .if there is such a link?

To me, from reading this link, it appears that there are quite a few ways that Mastercoin could facilitate a sort of decentralized exchange that could be used with bitcoins and other fiat currencies or crypto currencies... one of which would be to use color coins and accordingly, guys would NOT have to entrust their BTC to a third party for the trading portion - however, they may need to go through a third party to convert at some point into fiat.

Though I could foresee that exchange systems could be set up that the conversion to fiat would be left up to the bitcoin holders. These kinds of systems do seem very feasible b/c it would allow for the trading of whatever fiat or cryptos based on then values of the coins relative to one another and then some guys would be betting that the values of the certain coins would go up relative to others and other guys would be betting that the values of certain coins would go down relative to others... and in the end they would earn more or fewer BTC as a result.

It seems that there remain a lot of interesting developments on the horizon in these regards.

By the way: I did want to mention that I noticed the name of this thread had changed.

Anyone know the story? Is this NOW the official RVF bitcoin thread.. anything bitcoin? hehehe...

In this thread, we had been talking bitcoin and other crypto currencies, but that may have been too obscure a name for some RVF'ers to fathom?

https://blog.mastercoin.org/

It will be Mastercoins/Bitcoins to start.

Here is some good reading on the subject of second generation cryptocoins:
http://www.ofnumbers.com/the-guide/

(03-06-2014 06:59 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  So has anyone made any decent money trading on the volatility of BTC ?

I am sure that there is all kinds of money to make (or lose) depending on timing... And, BTC seems to be less volatile than some of the other crypo currencies (where even more money can be made or lost, more quickly).

Personally, I am NOT doing too well with my trading... I have gained some and I have lost some.. mostly dumb luck I think b/c these BTC prices seem to be manipulated by whale/bots to some extent.. and as soon as a guy may sense a pattern and bet on in that direction, they change directions. That has been my experience in trying to study BTC price direction. I am sure others may be better at being able to study lines and to predict or maybe lucky for the purposes of trading.

I remain of the belief that dollar cost averaging is the best method.. rather than attempting trading... unless a guy has some special skills or decent luck to bring to the table...

What is your planned BTC strategy? long-term or short-term? trading? or something else?

(03-08-2014 04:29 AM)friheten Wrote:  https://blog.mastercoin.org/

It will be Mastercoins/Bitcoins to start.

Here is some good reading on the subject of second generation cryptocoins:
http://www.ofnumbers.com/the-guide/

Thanks for those links, Friheten. Maybe they could be useful to some guys following this thread? I glanced at them, and certainly, I am of the belief that if a guy understands the potential and some of the background for some of these second generation cryptos, they may be able to get in on the ground floor to one(s) that may appreciate considerably.

Personally, I have a hard enough time and also a bit too much distraction, just in following BTC. I am anticipating, that maybe in the next few weeks, I will be able to be less preoccupied with BTC, once the price shoots up a little bit (if that happens?). Then I will be clearly in the black... and I may feel more relax considering some ways to diversify... possibly?



By the way, I get the sense that the latest news keeping BTC prices in a bit of a quagmire over the weekend.. are three news items: 1) mysterious movement of what appears to have been 180K GOX bitcoins, 2) Japanese govt ruling that they have NO authority to regulate BTC (which may allow Gox to go free) and 3) this guy two bit threatening to release information on Monday showing that members of the bitcoin foundation were in positions of privilege concerning the GOX shut down information and profited from their bitcoin foundation positions... unlike other GOX investors.

I am of the sense that the possible missing and found Satashi Nakamoto story is NOT really affecting BTC prices.... even though it has gotten quite a bit of press. I even heard that sensationalist story on my NPR station.. Over the last couple of days, the bitcoin community has collected nearly 40 bitcoins for the guy (to be converted into dollars at whatever amount it is by the end of March... wow!!!!! )

(03-08-2014 03:59 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  What is your planned BTC strategy? long-term or short-term? trading? or something else?

Long term holding with some trading in and out of positions when I feel it's spiked or bottom'd.

(03-08-2014 04:07 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 03:59 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  What is your planned BTC strategy? long-term or short-term? trading? or something else?

Long term holding with some trading in and out of positions when I feel it's spiked or bottom'd.

Your plan sounds similar to several guys in this thread - even though we may come to differing determinations about whether something is at a spike or a bottom.

I have a little bit more than 5% of my total crypto investment in various alternative crypto currencies. I am losing quite a bit of confidence in the alternate cryptos as a whole - even though there may be some second generation ones that may be worth looking into (such as Mastercoin, or ethereum or one of them).. at some point...

My current thinking is that many of the cryptos follow BTC bubble trajectories (at least the ones that I am invested into)... and during the next upward BTC trajectory, I am going to cash out of most of them, if NOT all of my current alt currency investments. That money would likely get put into BTC... or possibly, if I identify another promising alt crypto, I may direct the money towards that "promising" alt crypto.

If I were to cash out of my various alt currencies today, I would probably lock in about a 50% loss... and I do NOT want to lock in those kinds of losses, unless it appears that those alt-cryptos will NOT get better. I have the sense that many of the ones that I am invested into are going to follow BTC prices upwards during the next upward spurt... even though probably NOT at the exact same rate as BTC (and at this point, I am ready, willing and able to take such a gamble).

Actually, currently there are 152 cryptos listed on coinmarketcap.... WOW

(03-08-2014 05:41 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Actually, currently there are 152 cryptos listed on coinmarketcap.... WOW

Why is that a wow?

It only takes 20 mins to make a crypto currency. I could make an RVF crypto currency if anyone is interested.

(03-08-2014 05:53 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 05:41 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Actually, currently there are 152 cryptos listed on coinmarketcap.... WOW

Why is that a wow?

It only takes 20 mins to make a crypto currency. I could make an RVF crypto currency if anyone is interested.

Yes, I read about some of those crypto currency creation tools, yet I still consider the increase in number of cryptos listed on that website as a wow b/c in late November there were only 37 cryptos listed thereon. Some alternative cryptos may take a grip within a social circle or within an established brand that is big enough to sustain their continued use... and others are certainly pump and dump type operations.

I wonder if Roosh would ban you for creating an RVF coin, if he did NOT consent to it, or if he would take the Kanye West route and sue your ass into submission... hehehe..

On the other hand, maybe he would be happy with an RVF coin... Sometimes there just needs to be a vision and a will for the thing that would or could be developed.

If I do it and he sues me I would only be able to pay him damage in RVC (RooshCoin) ;-)

Seriously, we could create RooshCoin just for a laugh. It only costs 0.05 BTC to create it. If a few people offer to split the cost with me I will do it.

(03-08-2014 06:16 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  If I do it and he sues me I would only be able to pay him damage in RVC (RooshCoin) ;-)

Seriously, we could create RooshCoin just for a laugh. It only costs 0.05 BTC to create it. If a few people offer to split the cost with me I will do it.

I'm too chicken-shit and too cheap to be in on this kind of a conspiracy..... ..

Personally, I would think that Roosh would need to be consulted for any kind of crypto bearing his name or resemblance.. ..

Nonetheless, as you suggest, the cheapness of any coin creation could inspire coins for many different causes.... or messages.. or brands... just like domain names were taken up and squatted upon in the 90s, this coin creation may inspire litigation and squatting of its own flavor.

It doesn't cost anything to launch a new altcoin if you build it from the free source code.

Out of the 152 coins listed there are probably hundreds more. Some guy gets an idea that he will make a million dollars with his altcoin and launches it as a get rich quick scheme for himself, your classic pump and dump. I would say 99% of the altcoins are destined to fail from day 1. There are some good innovations coming from a few of them like Litecoin which has 4x faster transaction confirmation than Bitcoin as well as a few other improvements.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/t...story.html

Quote:Future generations of Bitcoin billionaires may someday look back on 2014 with knowing smiles. Here was a year when thefts spread, exchanges collapsed, rates gyrated like a teenager’s moods. And yet the buying of bitcoins showed no signs of abating.

Quote:Rising interest in Bitcoin has brought a flood of investments from venture capitalists, allowing for the development of exchanges that, experts say, are more likely to survive the attacks of hackers and other threats to the currency’s stability. The number of merchants accepting bitcoins, meanwhile, has steadily grown, and several cities now have ATMs that trade in them, making exchanges easier.

Link didn't work for me but not sure what the story is. I remember a few weeks back seeing a story about a guy at some prestigious college who linked up the entire network to mine dogecoins for him, if it is the same story I'm surprised he only got $30 worth with a whole schools network fo computers mining for him but you also if its the same story you cant expect to hack your schhhools network and not get the boot lol.

(03-14-2014 12:12 PM)jamaicabound Wrote:  
Link didn't work for me but not sure what the story is. I remember a few weeks back seeing a story about a guy at some prestigious college who linked up the entire network to mine dogecoins for him, if it is the same story I'm surprised he only got $30 worth with a whole schools network fo computers mining for him but you also if its the same story you cant expect to hack your schhhools network and not get the boot lol.

Yeah.. universities and employers will likely need to create rules to deal with these kinds of issues.. and in the interim, there may be some vagueness that may cut either way, in terms of whether the punishment fit the crime.

I am sure that a lot of tech savy students are figuring ways to accomplish these kinds of uses of university computing systems..... to make some good money...

Just take the electricity for example, living in any lodging in which the electricity is covered, there may be questions about why electrical consumption has gone up so much, but sometimes, the systems may be inadequate to pinpoint which part of the electrical system is causing the increased consumption. Or if the consumption is already high, the extra blip in consumption may go undetected for quite some time.

(03-14-2014 01:44 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:12 PM)jamaicabound Wrote:  
Link didn't work for me but not sure what the story is. I remember a few weeks back seeing a story about a guy at some prestigious college who linked up the entire network to mine dogecoins for him, if it is the same story I'm surprised he only got $30 worth with a whole schools network fo computers mining for him but you also if its the same story you cant expect to hack your schhhools network and not get the boot lol.

Yeah.. universities and employers will likely need to create rules to deal with these kinds of issues.. and in the interim, there may be some vagueness that may cut either way, in terms of whether the punishment fit the crime.

I am sure that a lot of tech savy students are figuring ways to accomplish these kinds of uses of university computing systems..... to make some good money...

Just take the electricity for example, living in any lodging in which the electricity is covered, there may be questions about why electrical consumption has gone up so much, but sometimes, the systems may be inadequate to pinpoint which part of the electrical system is causing the increased consumption. Or if the consumption is already high, the extra blip in consumption may go undetected for quite some time.

You bring up some interesting points. I remember when I was in college Napster and music sharing was still somewhat in it's infancy and I know colleges quickly adopted things about not downloading pirated stuff or copyrighted stuff on their networks. I wonder if they kept it strict to music and videos or if they created overarching vague policies which could be used for miners who try to take over the network.

So tried my first small amount of transacting my my new bitcoins.

Actually found a very well trusted poker site that accepts bitcoins (winpoker) so I transferred a very small amount from my bitcoin wallet to test it.

With both my wallet app and the poker client up and running at the same time I made the payment and clicked send.

Within less than 4 seconds the money was in the poker account no third parties (paypal, neteller etc) were involved - wow!

Impressive. No transaction charges either. A new world for online poker players!

They convert it to US $, Euro or Pounds automatically with no transaction charges converting to fiat or converting back to bitcoins later when you withdraw it.

So I played poker with the money online, spun it up to 2.5 times the deposit value fairly quickly and decided to send the same amount that I deposited back to my bitcoin wallet at which point it displayed the following message :

Your withdrawal request has been accepted. Your bitcoins should be in your wallet within 72 hours.

WTF! 72 Hours?!

Bearing in mind the volatility of the bitcoin price this is silly.

A few thoughts.

1) There is no technical reason whatsoever related to bitcoin as to why the transactions out cannot be just as fast as the transactions in so this is clearly a winpoker limitation (they are new in dealing with bitcoin).

2) Once transactions out are as quick and painless as transactions in, there is no reason for a poker player to deal with the pain in the arse that is dealing with 3rd parties (neteller etc) and fiat currencies. Bitcoin is a dream come true for online poker players.

3) No transaction charges in and out! Woo hoo!

4) I am curious as to exactly how quickly the bitcoins will arrive back in my wallet.Obviously it will be less than 72 hours but I am curious exactly how long it will be.

5) Curious as to the exact amount I will receive in bitcoin and how closely it is to the amount of the transfer in.

(03-14-2014 01:54 PM)jamaicabound Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 01:44 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:12 PM)jamaicabound Wrote:  
Link didn't work for me but not sure what the story is. I remember a few weeks back seeing a story about a guy at some prestigious college who linked up the entire network to mine dogecoins for him, if it is the same story I'm surprised he only got $30 worth with a whole schools network fo computers mining for him but you also if its the same story you cant expect to hack your schhhools network and not get the boot lol.

Yeah.. universities and employers will likely need to create rules to deal with these kinds of issues.. and in the interim, there may be some vagueness that may cut either way, in terms of whether the punishment fit the crime.

I am sure that a lot of tech savy students are figuring ways to accomplish these kinds of uses of university computing systems..... to make some good money...

Just take the electricity for example, living in any lodging in which the electricity is covered, there may be questions about why electrical consumption has gone up so much, but sometimes, the systems may be inadequate to pinpoint which part of the electrical system is causing the increased consumption. Or if the consumption is already high, the extra blip in consumption may go undetected for quite some time.

You bring up some interesting points. I remember when I was in college Napster and music sharing was still somewhat in it's infancy and I know colleges quickly adopted things about not downloading pirated stuff or copyrighted stuff on their networks. I wonder if they kept it strict to music and videos or if they created overarching vague policies which could be used for miners who try to take over the network.

Large employers and universities are usually pretty talented in the arena of creating vague, overly broad and amorphous rules to cover a large quantity of conduct.

However, sometimes when they go to enforce such rules they will find that the rules were inadequate in various respects... However, those inadequacies may NOT stop these entities from enforcing such rules to apply to the new circumstances so long as they can get away with it.

I would imagine that there is going to be a considerable amount of variance in rule(s) wording that universities have to cover these kinds of situations, and even though some of the principles of pirating may apply to mining. They are likely going to realize that they need to re-write some of their rules and also to publish their rules to the extent that they want to avoid negative publicity and/or litigation, especially as they will be concerned about their computers and/or other resources being used in the crypto-currencies scene.

(03-14-2014 02:31 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  So tried my first small amount of transacting my my new bitcoins.

Actually found a very well trusted poker site that accepts bitcoins (winpoker) so I transferred a very small amount from my bitcoin wallet to test it.

With both my wallet app and the poker client up and running at the same time I made the payment and clicked send.

Within less than 4 seconds the money was in the poker account no third parties (paypal, neteller etc) were involved - wow!

Impressive. No transaction charges either. A new world for online poker players!

They convert it to US $, Euro or Pounds automatically with no transaction charges converting to fiat or converting back to bitcoins later when you withdraw it.

So I played poker with the money online, spun it up to 2.5 times the deposit value fairly quickly and decided to send the same amount that I deposited back to my bitcoin wallet at which point it displayed the following message :

Your withdrawal request has been accepted. Your bitcoins should be in your wallet within 72 hours.

WTF! 72 Hours?!

Bearing in mind the volatility of the bitcoin price this is silly.

A few thoughts.

1) There is no technical reason whatsoever related to bitcoin as to why the transactions out cannot be just as fast as the transactions in so this is clearly a winpoker limitation (they are new in dealing with bitcoin).

2) Once transactions out are as quick and painless as transactions in, there is no reason for a poker player to deal with the pain in the arse that is dealing with 3rd parties (neteller etc) and fiat currencies. Bitcoin is a dream come true for online poker players.

3) No transaction charges in and out! Woo hoo!

4) I am curious as to exactly how quickly the bitcoins will arrive back in my wallet.Obviously it will be less than 72 hours but I am curious exactly how long it will be.

5) Curious as to the exact amount I will receive in bitcoin and how closely it is to the amount of the transfer in.

Yeah... let us know both how long it takes to process out of the poker site and whether you are charged to process out of the poker site.

The pattern you describe is somewhat consistent with my experience in that I have found it much easier and quicker to get bitcoin into an exchange than to get it out (poker sit probably similar).

Also, when you are within the poker site, they are NOT really converting back and forth from BTC to fiat.... so exchanges could likely work like this too in several regards, transactions occurring off of the blockchain. However, it seems that future exchanges are going to have to develop better transparency and accountability with their transactions in order to inspire confidence and especially, if we continue to have some of these off block custodians (such as mt gox and some others) running off with the BTC of their customers.

Bitcoin communities have been growing pretty nicely lately, especially when bitcoin seems to be trendy right now. The recent sketches of bitcoin in Conan O'Brian and Collegehumor were pretty funny. I also see Bitcoins in many TV shows, comics and elsewhere

http://teamcoco.com/video/bitcoin-explaination

There has been news that Wall Street is interested in Bitcoin, especially when now they got the tools for high frequency trading http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bitcoin...2014-03-12


I only now grasped that there is only ever going to be 21 million Bitcoins out there. If you got only 1 btc, you already have a lot in a long term. If you got more, shiiiiiit. Take note that Bitcoin is an international currency. At this rate I could see Bitcoin succeeding, but we will have to see. Definitely think in a long term.

(03-14-2014 02:40 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Yeah... let us know both how long it takes to process out of the poker site and whether you are charged to process out of the poker site.

Just received it.

It took 24 hours.

I sent 0.01038 BTC

I received 0.01054567 BTC

So I actually got back slightly more than I sent due to a slight exchange price fluctuation even though the cash and and transfer out amount was the same (4 British pounds).

(03-14-2014 11:35 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 02:40 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Yeah... let us know both how long it takes to process out of the poker site and whether you are charged to process out of the poker site.

Just received it.

It took 24 hours.

I sent 0.01038 BTC

I received 0.01054567 BTC

So I actually got back slightly more than I sent due to a slight exchange price fluctuation even though the cash and and transfer out amount was the same (4 British pounds).

I've also played on winpoker using however I didn't make any profit.

Just found out about bitfinex a few days ago, the allow trading with margin for both BTC and LTC.. Really good IMO if you are bullish to maximize the profit. Bigger risk to however need a drop in price of 40% or more to lose all the money. Very useful. It's also possible to go short and bet that price will drop.

Price have been really stable for both Bitcoin and the other coins in with top 10 market cap. Since this second generation coins is being developed I've change my view a bit. The mastercoin fundation is working on something they call omniwallet witch will allow several coins in the same wallet. And including decentralized exchange we might end up with a few major coins. Truth is Bitcoin have some limitations, the blockchain is already 14GB or something and 10minutes between the blocks is also slow. But the blockchain is really strong and I believe Bitcoin to be the major coin with a few side kickers.

Also I've heard that coinbase is planing to add LTC, however I got no source for that except second hand information.

(03-14-2014 11:35 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 02:40 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Yeah... let us know both how long it takes to process out of the poker site and whether you are charged to process out of the poker site.

Just received it.

It took 24 hours.

I sent 0.01038 BTC

I received 0.01054567 BTC

So I actually got back slightly more than I sent due to a slight exchange price fluctuation even though the cash and and transfer out amount was the same (4 British pounds).

This rendition seems really weird in my thinking, and I cannot wrap my head around how a guy could receive more than he sends in this kind of a service b/c from my understanding no converting would be taking place (the most efficient means to transfer is by Bitcoin, no?), and the transfer would be totally in BTC.

I must be missing something in my thinking about this transfer?

(03-15-2014 08:52 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  I've also played on winpoker using however I didn't make any profit.

Satoshi:

I noticed your name change, and I was wondering how long before you would grace us with your presence in the bitcoin thread, after your name change...


I don't usually gamble; however, my luck with trading seems to be o.k. when I am dealing with fairly small amounts of .1BTC or so... and then whenever I increase the amounts to more than 1 BTC, I tend to get burned... which takes away all my gains when I had been using the smaller amounts. Go figure!

JJG; He wrote that they automatically change it into USD/EUR when you keep it in your account in win-poker. As I guess none of their tables are playing for BTC. In other words two convertings took place.

Maybe if you try https://sealswithclubs.eu it will be faster. Here I think you bet bitcoin and not USD, so lower risk in currency swings.

(03-15-2014 12:19 PM)pants Wrote:  JJG; He wrote that they automatically change it into USD/EUR when you keep it in your account in win-poker. As I guess none of their tables are playing for BTC. In other words two convertings took place.

Maybe if you try https://sealswithclubs.eu it will be faster. Here I think you bet bitcoin and not USD, so lower risk in currency swings.

Sealswithclubs is bitcoin only and got far less players. Winpoker was really smart to introduce bitcoin, they must have got many new players.

(03-15-2014 12:00 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Satoshi:

I noticed your name change, and I was wondering how long before you would grace us with your presence in the bitcoin thread, after your name change...

Yes I was surprise that the name was available.. Also I wasn't happy with my previous name. The gold membership was 0.03BTC and I bought those 0.03BTC for about 25 or 30€ cent.

Price is so stable.....

(03-15-2014 12:00 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  This rendition seems really weird in my thinking, and I cannot wrap my head around how a guy could receive more than he sends in this kind of a service b/c from my understanding no converting would be taking place (the most efficient means to transfer is by Bitcoin, no?), and the transfer would be totally in BTC.

I must be missing something in my thinking about this transfer?

When you send the BTC they change it into fiat at the market rate at the time (with no currency exchange charges or markup).

When you cash out they do the same in reverse.

I got more bitcoin that I sent because of a very slight change in the rate.