(02-28-2014 10:27 PM)friheten Wrote:  

(02-28-2014 08:11 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  So now that this Bitcoin fad is over, how much have you guys lost in all this fiasco? I was tempted at one point to get in on the action, but my gut feeling me told me this wouldn't last as it was just a fad. Sad to see it materializing.

Everyone who got in before middle of Novermber is +.

I understand that several times through this thread, especially during down trends in the BTC prices, guys have tended to chime into the thread and ask how much guys have lost in bitcoin. Surely, the downtrends are opportunities to point fingers, yet luckily they do NOT seem to last for too long. Nonetheless, NO one would want to cash out of bitcoin and lock in the losses – unless he were in a situation of absolutely necisity (some emergency).
Even though I began to buy BTC at $1,200 in November 2013, currently, my BTC average buy in price (including administrative fees) is a little bit under $700 per BTC. I could have had a lower average btc buy in price, but I did NOT load up when prices were lower, and I made a few screw ups with trades.

In the last couple of days, I could have cashed out for anywhere between 20% in the red or 2.5% in the black. Nonetheless, as I have stated, absent some clear indication of bitcoin disaster, I am in BTC for the long run of at least a couple of years.

When BTC prices went into the $700s yesterday, guys in BTC forums were complaining that they did NOT buy earlier in the $500s. I remain of the impression that BTC under $1,000 are a bargain – though I am only going to buy so many coins at a one time because I prefer to hedge for the possibility that coins under $1,000 are NOT a bargain.

By the way, I understand yesterdays upsurge in the BTC market to be partly attributable to Blockchains announcement on Bloomberg, which was anticipated to be good for bitcoin. When that announcement turned out to be lackluster and merely concerning blockchain’s new involvement in exchanges, BTC prices dropped.



El Mech: my neighbor had a moto kind of like that one.. when I was growing up in the 70s... ... it was that color of green, too. I thought that it was like 100ccs.. I cannot recall exactly.

T125s stinger

It is possible that the price of bitcoin is 1-2k by the end of the year, or even more. If you can look at the bitcoin past 2 months, it looks like a rocky road but actually it has been the best two months ever regarding publicity and adaption(hardly any merchants accepted bitcoin earlier and the amount of entrepreneurs were rather small compared to now). Bitcoin communities are still growing very fast.

Impossible to say, but it is possible that the current bitcoin price has been a bargain for a long time because we are still recovering from mt.gox and other issues(DDoS attacks, silkroads and whatnot). There is so much uncertainty but that kind of makes it all fun.

(02-24-2014 07:44 AM)strengthstudent Wrote:  The bitcoin haters would rather see bitcoin fail than succeed because if it did succeed, they would have to face the fact that they missed an incredible opportunity where they can only blame themselves. You see, bitcoin COULD be the next dotcom boom. Back then I was a kid and unable to take the advantage of dotcom bubble -- I won't let it happen again.

I am not an hater, as I said in my first post, I actually love the idea of bitcoin, but I think in practice it cannot work, right now.
My purpose of posting here is to warn other guys about the natural risks of bitcoin, as we have seen with the extreme volatility and the lost of hundreds of millions of dollars from once the biggest exchange, Mt.Gox.
Or just today, flexcoin, who even stored its main wallet offline!
I have made much more money in other investments since last november than most guys here who are at best breakeven. Time is money.

(03-05-2014 04:20 AM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 07:44 AM)strengthstudent Wrote:  The bitcoin haters would rather see bitcoin fail than succeed because if it did succeed, they would have to face the fact that they missed an incredible opportunity where they can only blame themselves. You see, bitcoin COULD be the next dotcom boom. Back then I was a kid and unable to take the advantage of dotcom bubble -- I won't let it happen again.

I am not an hater, as I said in my first post, I actually love the idea of bitcoin, but I think in practice it cannot work, right now.
My purpose of posting here is to warn other guys about the natural risks of bitcoin, as we have seen with the extreme volatility and the lost of hundreds of millions of dollars from once the biggest exchange, Mt.Gox.
Or just today, flexcoin, who even stored its main wallet offline!
I have made much more money in other investments since last november than most guys here who are at best breakeven. Time is money.

We get a warning about every page. It's ok I think most guys in here know what they are doing and are aware of the risks.

I don't think all of these guys are concern trolls, they just see bitcoin crashing from 1200 to 400 and think WTF, then they read Krugman or whatever saying it's evil or hear MtGox's holding disappeared; I don't blame them for a frown. That said some critics are just concern trolls or like to spread FUD. The only thing I don't understand abt honest warners is that they assume I had never thought of their objections before. If they'd object re SHA-256 cryptographic hash function being less safe than assumed, I'd listen, but constant warnings re tulips & Ponzi's just makes me yawn.

Bc I don't think bitcoin is in a bubble, I think what we see is the first phase of exponential adoption. It’s true that bubbles & adoption rates show similar patterns. The differences are that bubbles pop and go to zero, while adoption rates have steep S-curves and then settle at a saturation level. Bitcoin’s constant resiliency, 8 times crashing now and recovering, proves me it’s not a bubble. Don't believe me, just check out these sites and see the exponential adoption of various elements on which bitcoin rests;
- blockchain.info/en/charts
- bitcoinpulse.com
- fiatleak.com
- bitcoinwisdom.com

The hash rate (miners/mining equipment = safety of network), the exchange rate, the global adoption, the amount of transactions, downloaded wallets (=users) or merchants accepting (and bigger merchants); developers (see GitHub works re Bitcoin) have all gone exponential. There's no Ponzi or bubble or Tulip mania going on here, because there's a fundament on which the increased fiat exchange rate/price rests. That's why it keeps bouncing back -- UP.

Now, I can be wrong abt that, I could be completely wrong, but I don’t think I am. That’s why I take a calculated risk.

PS And if you think all that's BS, just listen to El-Mech, he's making money. Lots. By daytrading w/ other daytraders.

(03-05-2014 11:08 AM)Maciano Wrote:  I don't think all of these guys are concern trolls, they just see bitcoin crashing from 1200 to 400 and think WTF, then they read Krugman or whatever saying it's evil or hear MtGox's holding disappeared; I don't blame them for a frown. That said some critics are just concern trolls or like to spread FUD. The only thing I don't understand abt honest warners is that they assume I had never thought of their objections before. If they'd object re SHA-256 cryptographic hash function being less safe than assumed, I'd listen, but constant warnings re tulips & Ponzi's just makes me yawn.

Personally, Maciano, I believe you are giving too much benefit of the doubt to these naysayers who are lacking in any substantive contribution to this thread. Personally, I am beginning to appreciate them less and less, unless they contribute some substance to back up their claims. I am increasingly of the sense that it adds zero value to this thread to express an opinion that bitcoin is going to fail without providing some meat to such claims.

Sometimes I question whether these multiple naysayers that visit this thread on a fairly frequent basis, who are attempting to save us from ourselves, are jumping into this thread just to intentionally irritate guys in this thread who are seriously trying to develop value within this thread. They seem to have such an agenda to distract us from engaging in meaningful discussion and to warn us off of bitcoin as if they “know” better. There is some patronizing element to these supposed contributions, and it seems that either they have NOT read the thread to see that this topic has been addressed a zillion times or frequently, they post such opinion information to purposefully irritate or distract from the topic (FUD in other words).

Surely, every once in a while, there may be some naysayer guys who have good intentions to contribute to our conversation here whe are erroneous or who will attempt to back up their claims after having at first expressed them, superficially, but that seems to be the exception, rather than the rule.

It seems that many of us in this thread are receptive and open to meaningful criticisms of bitcoin, to the extent that such criticism is helpful in order that we may be more informed on the topic. Nonetheless, it seems that a large majority of the times when guys come into this thread to expresses a negative prognosis on bitcoin without seeming to put hardly any effort into the substance of his post, those kinds of mere opinion posts do NOT contribute.. except to cause thoughtful guys to have to respond to such posts and to repeat basic bitcoin information.

It seems that likely, in the end, we cannot really stop such opinionated posting from occurring in this thread, and maybe we do NOT really want to – because we could end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater so to speak.. yet, likely, also, we cannot completely ignore those kinds of opinionated postings because then this thread would be filled with FUD.

Regarding bitcoin today… I had been expecting that we would be departing for our moonward journey, but it seems that prices may be floating in this mid-$600 area.. before moving up. I am anticipating $750 to $850 within a few weeks, then maybe floating under $1000 for a month or two, and by the end of the year, maybe floating in the $1500 area. Surely, we are going to continue to experience volatility.. and there will likely be several very high upward and downwards spikes in prices during this period (flash crashing down and up..). Maybe by the end of 2015, we will be floating in the 3-5K arena… ? Surely, these are my price estimates for the moment based on the extent of the BTC network building that has been taking place in recent months and such network effects as others have referred to in various parts of this thread.

And more good news for bitcoin;

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/0...9B20140304

How many more "exchanges" are gonna take the money and run?

The founder of this exchange offed herself... Some bad news coming to the "depositors"?

https://firstmetaexchange.com/home

(03-05-2014 01:01 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  And more good news for bitcoin;

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/0...9B20140304

How many more "exchanges" are gonna take the money and run?

The founder of this exchange offed herself... Some bad news coming to the "depositors"?

https://firstmetaexchange.com/home

Yes I think the train is leaving the platform when so many people without a clue are interested. MtGox have been trouble for years and that anyone would trade with them after their history is stupid. And bitcoins will be stolen, 96.000 was gone from Sheep marketplace. That this Canadian exchange got hacked for 896 BTC is nothing, and it is a good thing that they had money in offline wallets, because then those costumers get something back anyway. The good news is in favor and that MtGox is gone will put the price back up that price have not been correct for a long time.

Auroacoin is super exciting.

(03-05-2014 01:01 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  And more good news for bitcoin;

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/0...9B20140304

How many more "exchanges" are gonna take the money and run?

The founder of this exchange offed herself... Some bad news coming to the "depositors"?

https://firstmetaexchange.com/home

I doubt that anyone here can meaningfully predict how many more exchanges are gonna run with the money or claim a security breach or in fact experience a security breach or fail.

These kinds of stories do cause me to consider protective measures that I could take to safeguard my BTC investment within this seemingly wild, wild west world of bitcoin.

Off-line wallets may be a partial protection - yet some guys do find it convenient to keep a certain number of their BTCs on exchanges in order to easily trade at the spur of the moment. Hopefully, we will be getting more solutions to these kinds of negative situations. I believe the Blockchain announcement on Bloomberg news, yesterday, is also meant to provide some solutions in the direction to providing more secure and/or accountable BTC exchanges...

This thing is ripe for a mafia style operation.

(03-05-2014 11:08 AM)Maciano Wrote:  I don't think all of these guys are concern trolls, they just see bitcoin crashing from 1200 to 400 and think WTF, then they read Krugman or whatever saying it's evil or hear MtGox's holding disappeared; I don't blame them for a frown. That said some critics are just concern trolls or like to spread FUD. The only thing I don't understand abt honest warners is that they assume I had never thought of their objections before. If they'd object re SHA-256 cryptographic hash function being less safe than assumed, I'd listen, but constant warnings re tulips & Ponzi's just makes me yawn.

Bc I don't think bitcoin is in a bubble, I think what we see is the first phase of exponential adoption. It’s true that bubbles & adoption rates show similar patterns. The differences are that bubbles pop and go to zero, while adoption rates have steep S-curves and then settle at a saturation level. Bitcoin’s constant resiliency, 8 times crashing now and recovering, proves me it’s not a bubble. Don't believe me, just check out these sites and see the exponential adoption of various elements on which bitcoin rests;
- blockchain.info/en/charts
- bitcoinpulse.com
- fiatleak.com
- bitcoinwisdom.com

The hash rate (miners/mining equipment = safety of network), the exchange rate, the global adoption, the amount of transactions, downloaded wallets (=users) or merchants accepting (and bigger merchants); developers (see GitHub works re Bitcoin) have all gone exponential. There's no Ponzi or bubble or Tulip mania going on here, because there's a fundament on which the increased fiat exchange rate/price rests. That's why it keeps bouncing back -- UP.

Now, I can be wrong abt that, I could be completely wrong, but I don’t think I am. That’s why I take a calculated risk.

PS And if you think all that's BS, just listen to El-Mech, he's making money. Lots. By daytrading w/ other daytraders.

Widespread adoption will only come with increased regulation/oversight. The public at large will simply not tolerate the risk involved of an exchange just "closing" or "losing" their money. There is a reason most of the world population's money is in gov't backed banks and isn't in hedge funds - intolerance of that risk.

"Widespread adoption will only come with increased regulation/oversight. The public at large will simply not tolerate the risk involved of an exchange just "closing" or "losing" their money. There is a reason most of the world population's money is in gov't backed banks and isn't in hedge funds - intolerance of that risk."

Maybe. Maybe not. I actually couldn't care less. At some point, after high innovation phase, I wouldn't mind some basic gov oversight. Libertarians are often a bit naive how bad criminals will abuse their tolerance & freedoms, if they get the chance. OTOH, all these hacks happening right now, would happen w/ gov regulation also.

What I don't get is why a lot of ppl can't get over the idea of a voluntary system. You don't have to join BTC. You can, I guarantee that, never ever in your life touch BTC and go on w/ your life. Just some of us like it, want to use it. That's all.

Btw, money that needs to be backed by either gold or men w/ guns is actually inferior to money that needs not to be backed like gold/silver or crypto. Think abt it. If you need backing, you need the backing to counter a risk.

http://www.coinsumm.it/

Just stumbled upon that.

2 day conference with tons of high profile Silicon Valley people on March 25-26. Looking forward to hear some of their speech. Impressive to see the growth of the cryptocurrency community

Anyone agree that the main thing holding BTC back is not lack of government backing but the fact that there is nothing at all in the protocol designed to deal with theft of BTC?

(03-05-2014 07:24 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  Anyone agree that the main thing holding BTC back is not lack of government backing but the fact that there is nothing at all in the protocol designed to deal with theft of BTC?

Government regulation is NOT necessarily the solution to BTC security whoes...... b/c one of the core features of BTC is decentralization... and NO govt control... and that is a large part of the appeal of bitcoin... if you take a way decentralization, you nearly convert btc into what it is attempting to escape .. ... Nonetheless, there may be some ways to better protect consumers... from fraudsters or from coinholders who lose coins.

One of the current problems with bitcoin exchanges is that bitcoin transactions are taking place off of the blockchain - and individuals who supposedly own the BTC have given their bitcoins to others to safeguard.

I believe some work is being done to allow for decentralized exchanges in which people could trade bitcoins directly without giving up their bitcoins except for when they engage in trading. Forms of direct exchanges. There may be other solutions to these security issues, as well. It seems that there are various minds in the bitcoin space thinking about various ways to improve bitcoin transactions, the control of coins and ultimately ease of use.

http://themisescircle.org/blog/2013/08/2...-altcoins/

Good argument against altcoins. Pretty convincing and sums up what has been my opinion for awhile

TLDR; most alt-coins are simply a money grabbing, get rich quick scheme and cannot possibly compete with Bitcoin's network effect

(03-05-2014 07:46 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I believe some work is being done to allow for decentralized exchanges in which people could trade bitcoins directly without giving up their bitcoins except for when they engage in trading. Forms of direct exchanges. There may be other solutions to these security issues, as well. It seems that there are various minds in the bitcoin space thinking about various ways to improve bitcoin transactions, the control of coins and ultimately ease of use.

Mastercoin decentralized exchange will be released in eight days,.

(03-05-2014 05:26 PM)brg444 Wrote:  http://www.coinsumm.it/

Just stumbled upon that.

2 day conference with tons of high profile Silicon Valley people on March 25-26. Looking forward to hear some of their speech. Impressive to see the growth of the crypto currency community

I´m gonna stack up on some fresh coins prior to this conference.
More media -> more buyers!

(03-05-2014 10:27 PM)brg444 Wrote:  http://themisescircle.org/blog/2013/08/2...-altcoins/

Good argument against altcoins. Pretty convincing and sums up what has been my opinion for awhile

TLDR; most alt-coins are simply a money grabbing, get rich quick scheme and cannot possibly compete with Bitcoin's network effect

Absolutely true. Although something like maxcoin could be 10x faster and have several other better qualities than bitcoin, it will never achieve the same reach. If you know when to get out, you can surely make great money with altcoins though. The only valuable altcoins in a long term are the ones which offer something completely different and extraordinary: such as ethereum and mastercoin.

The man behind Bitcoin may have been found and instead of being a pseudonym or a whiz kid in Japan, he’s a 64-year-old Japanese-American living near Los Angeles. Interesting article :

http://mag.newsweek.com/2014/03/14/bitco...amoto.html

nm

(03-05-2014 01:01 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  And more good news for bitcoin;

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/0...9B20140304

How many more "exchanges" are gonna take the money and run?

The founder of this exchange offed herself... Some bad news coming to the "depositors"?

https://firstmetaexchange.com/home

That is 28? she must have spent all that bitcoin hard partying.

And failed plastic surgery.

(03-06-2014 08:50 AM)Steve9 Wrote:  The man behind Bitcoin may have been found and instead of being a pseudonym or a whiz kid in Japan, he’s a 64-year-old Japanese-American living near Los Angeles. Interesting article :

http://mag.newsweek.com/2014/03/14/bitco...amoto.html

It does seem plausible from the article's presentation of the facts that the guy that they found could be satoshi nakamoto...

But it does seem a little strange that nakamoto would have used his real name when he did spread the word about bitcoin and his white paper.

(03-06-2014 12:23 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 08:50 AM)Steve9 Wrote:  The man behind Bitcoin may have been found and instead of being a pseudonym or a whiz kid in Japan, he’s a 64-year-old Japanese-American living near Los Angeles. Interesting article :

http://mag.newsweek.com/2014/03/14/bitco...amoto.html

It does seem plausible from the article's presentation of the facts that the guy that they found could be satoshi nakamoto...

But it does seem a little strange that nakamoto would have used his real name when he did spread the word about bitcoin and his white paper.

the more I look into it the more I call BS. how could a guy who encrypts his email addresses for security and anonymity purposes signs his white paper with his actual name.

makes no sense