Post: #1

Do any of you guys go more direct if a girl flakes? I've been experimenting with doing this instead of radio silencing them. My thinking is that obviously the old course of action isn't working, so there needs to be a little more to shake things up.

If she's flaked, it's like she's opened the bday girl realm, and I'm pushing to go for a bang because I think that flakes might subconsciously be flaking because they usually give themselves away very easily and are now playing power games to compensate.

I tried it yesterday, instead of the girl getting mad, she seemed to be responding. Nothing has came out of it yet..

Post: #2

After trying both methods, I fall on the side of just going direct after a flake.

Radio silence can not only stifle the little momentum you've built up, but in some cases the flake can be an extreme shit test and that direct move could crack the proverbial code.

At worst, it's a blow out and time is saved on the more promising prospects.

Post: #3

Indirect opener. Direct follow up. "We should hang out sometime".

You gotta get to the point or she'll milk you for attention til the end of time ...aka friend zone.

Post: #4

(03-05-2014 10:45 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  Indirect opener. Direct follow up. "We should hang out sometime".

You gotta get to the point or she'll milk you for attention til the end of time ...aka friend zone.

I'm talking about you getting her number, making plans to meet, and her changing shit up at the last minute.

Post: #5

(03-05-2014 01:39 PM)soup Wrote:  

(03-05-2014 10:45 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  Indirect opener. Direct follow up. "We should hang out sometime".

You gotta get to the point or she'll milk you for attention til the end of time ...aka friend zone.

I'm talking about you getting her number, making plans to meet, and her changing shit up at the last minute.

What exactly did you say to her?

Sometimes I will give a girl a second chance if the situation is right. I have no problem with that, but if she fucks that up I will completely disregard her as a human being.

Post: #6

Girls showed up ten minutes late after we both texted that we going to be five minutes late.

I had already left, and then offered for her to come by my place for a drink a few blocks away. She balked a little, didn't come, but she didn't get offended.

This kind of thing tends to happen with the less attractive girls. The hottest girls I've gone on dates with are way more compliant.

Post: #7

Quote:it's like she's opened the bday girl realm

What does this mean?

Post: #8

Soup, I'm with you man...being direct cuts through the bullshit.

Letting her off easy when she flakes, is what the old me used to do, and being nice never got me anywhere.

These girls will think of a million reasons to not show up if we give them the opportunity.

Any girl who cancels on me, assuming she's under 25, gets the heartiste classic "gay" text when she flakes.

Post: #9

I've never had a girl "flake" on me after she's agreed to come over to my place, so it supports your theory.

Perhaps when a girl flakes, it means you should have been more direct from the outset.

Post: #10

(03-05-2014 07:41 AM)soup Wrote:  Do any of you guys go more direct if a girl flakes? I've been experimenting with doing this instead of radio silencing them. My thinking is that obviously the old course of action isn't working, so there needs to be a little more to shake things up.

If she's flaked, it's like she's opened the bday girl realm, and I'm pushing to go for a bang because I think that flakes might subconsciously be flaking because they usually give themselves away very easily and are now playing power games to compensate.

I tried it yesterday, instead of the girl getting mad, she seemed to be responding. Nothing has came out of it yet..

Would you mind giving an example of the dialogue? I'm curious, flaking is still super high for me.

Post: #11

Good post. The point of this shit is to get laid.... going direct screens out the ones that will take time and lets you know who is down.

Post: #12

(03-05-2014 03:45 PM)soup Wrote:  Girls showed up ten minutes late after we both texted that we going to be five minutes late.

I had already left, and then offered for her to come by my place for a drink a few blocks away. She balked a little, didn't come, but she didn't get offended.

This kind of thing tends to happen with the less attractive girls. The hottest girls I've gone on dates with are way more compliant.

I mean once a girl flakes, it's much less likely that they will end up meeting you at another date. So why not be a little more aggressive? You really have nothing to lose and will probably save yourself from wasting time with future dates from a flaky girl who isn't down to bang.

I like it.

Post: #13

Me and my boys call it "Do or Die". I'll collect a whole bunch of numbers from going out to clubs over the times , group message when I'm ready some shit like "come fuck"<----never have I said this exactly but it's a prime example of do or die.
Which is basically that courageous last attempt that is extremely bold and unlikely to fall through , but if it works will get you some poon.

Soup I believe that if you are tact about it in your particular scenario it will prove a deadly move . Sort of like when I'm on the verge of losing a client at work. I WOW them somehow tailored to whatever I've learned about them and from there I come in with a new and improved sales pitch and angle.

"DO OR DIE"...a.k.a "Hey, what the fuck do I have to lose?"

Post: #14

Keep in mind that I'm mostly talking about girls that I've wowed via my pics and profile on OKC, or my daygame, or they've met me when I was on ...

Either you are very attractive or she's just giving you her number for attention and has no interest in fucking you.

I always assume, especially with girls online, that if they are giving me their numbers, they want to fuck me.

This is the light that shines through all the bullshit. If you come off attractive enough, all of their games are formalities. I don't believe in "building" attraction over a protracted period of time. Girls deal with so many guys, that they are going to either categorize you as hot or not.

In America these days, game has essentially boiled down attraction. The rest is just don't fuck it up game.

You have to make yourself as attractive as you can possibly be before anything happens. It's all very black and white these days. I don't think you can convince a girl, over a long period of time, to fuck you. After a while, she's going to asses things and deduce that if she was really attracted to you, "it" would have happened already. If "it" hasn't happened already, then she will file you away to the friendzone.

I say it's better to take a hail mary at this point and go direct instead of being cataloged as part of her friendzone.

That's why I've been trying this out.

Side note: I'm losing my hair right now, so that might factor in heavily with my success in online game. We will see. I think that I'm just going to get cooler as my hair falls out. If I can still get my way with girls then, or better, I think it's safe to say that game, and the process of learning game, is a very real thing.

Post: #15

(03-06-2014 03:11 AM)soup Wrote:  You have to make yourself as attractive as you can possibly be before anything happens. It's all very black and white these days. I don't think you can convince a girl, over a long period of time, to fuck you. After a while, she's going to asses things and deduce that if she was really attracted to you, "it" would have happened already. If "it" hasn't happened already, then she will file you away to the friendzone.

She could also feel that if you were attracted to her, you would have made it happen already. That's why it's so hard to get the bang after a certain period of time, because she just doesn't think you want her.

I like what you are trying to do here and I'm interested to see how it plays out.

I've had a few long-term seductions, but extraordinary circumstances were in play.

Post: #16

I've commented on this in the playerlog

Attraction is really the biggest thing, if you're attractive enough women will give you zero resistance

Post: #17

Soup, can you give an example of a direct response to a flake? Thanks.

Post: #18

Ehh General, I think it's more like you come off as a chump to her , which is a huge turn off because most chicks want a cat who goes for the kill asap .
A girl won't renege just because she thinks you don't like her. Because that's logic and logic is for men.
She is solely riding off emotion and primal instinct...to go for the top dog.
After a long wait, where there is an abundance of opportunities to go for the bang, you will ,for the most part, have lost the bang. Because ,simply put, you aren't man enough to get the job done (in her eyes).

Post: #19

(03-06-2014 03:11 AM)soup Wrote:  In America these days, game has essentially boiled down attraction. The rest is just don't fuck it up game.

You have to make yourself as attractive as you can possibly be before anything happens. It's all very black and white these days. I don't think you can convince a girl, over a long period of time, to fuck you. After a while, she's going to asses things and deduce that if she was really attracted to you, "it" would have happened already. If "it" hasn't happened already, then she will file you away to the friendzone.

Soup I know you are from NYC and I think you hit the nail on the head. NYC can be very frustrating or very elating. Girls are not open to being gamed - they are like men in that they will decide whether they are attracted to you in 5 seconds. So when one hooks immediately there is an ego boost where you think your game is tight - but really they are just attracted to you.

I think maybe the only test of game in NYC is the top tier talent - the really attractive girls who men are too afraid to approach in real life - or day game. The others are swamped in baldfaced come-ons from hundreds of men and have their pick of whoever attracts them.

Post: #20

Yeah and all these people says you don't need looks to get laid. Well yes this is true, but if you want to top notch pussy, you yourself better look like a 10 also, they don't want to date way down.

So the takeaway is, we all need to become 10's.

Post: #21

(03-06-2014 03:09 PM)TheRookie Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 03:11 AM)soup Wrote:  In America these days, game has essentially boiled down attraction. The rest is just don't fuck it up game.

You have to make yourself as attractive as you can possibly be before anything happens. It's all very black and white these days. I don't think you can convince a girl, over a long period of time, to fuck you. After a while, she's going to asses things and deduce that if she was really attracted to you, "it" would have happened already. If "it" hasn't happened already, then she will file you away to the friendzone.

Soup I know you are from NYC and I think you hit the nail on the head. NYC can be very frustrating or very elating. Girls are not open to being gamed - they are like men in that they will decide whether they are attracted to you in 5 seconds. So when one hooks immediately there is an ego boost where you think your game is tight - but really they are just attracted to you.

I think maybe the only test of game in NYC is the top tier talent - the really attractive girls who men are too afraid to approach in real life - or day game. The others are swamped in baldfaced come-ons from hundreds of men and have their pick of whoever attracts them.

A girl being attracted to you is good game..

Post: #22

Wish I can crack this code, but once a flake happens, she will rationalize away the attraction. I try not to get #s from American girls because I find them incapable of medium to long term thinking, that #'s value diminishes by the hour (and text).

I've tried doing a "jiu jitsu" on the flake, but when dealing with digital communication or short # closes, it's easy to lose hand. Your masculine presence is sterilized through cyberspace where she can get distracted by anything else. You being on a screen means she has control of the situation, and girls don't know how to be in control so they would rather do nothing. It's a fool's gambit.

As you say, it boils down to attraction with American girls, so you have to strike while the iron's hot, it's all in the moment "IT ALL JUST HAPPENED". I don't do much online game, but I would imagine you message while she's online at night, get the #, and push for meet. Another way to fast sex is just go out to an alcoholic venue and hunt in person. Because with that #, the longer the interaction period draws out, the less she cares. If plans are set and she flakes, you're at the point of no return. I like the idea of pulling the trigger with a direct text, maybe she's doing shots with her friend and your message hits after the tequila does its job. If you miss, just delete and cast her into the wild so she can run amok in her flakey insanity.

It's exhausting gaming American girls if you don't have the energy to throw it all into the bang at that moment. I would rather know that night (preferably before 10pm) that it won't happen than get lost in fone/text hell. Even if you get a number close after a nice interaction, American girls are far gone to follow through. She'll hamsterize after the # close on how she's busy having a boyfriend at her career getaway and only wants friends to go to events with. Yes it may all be a shit test to plow through, but to hell with her - I don't have time for her princess complex, she can go back to her drug dealer down the corner.

I had 2 girls offer email closes last week, one even said she will "change her # in a few weeks anyway"; told them no thanks. The look on their face; it wasn't that they were disappointed that they weren't going to continue our interaction; but a look of shock when you are denied something you feel entitled to. They were denied attention. Online and phone game must be used sparingly to minimize the attention they receive. The best way to jolt them is face to face. It's sad (but efficient) that their attention deficit makes going for SNL imperative for both your sakes.

I deleted a couple of numbers the other day; that frees my mind up to meet new people. And if I strike out, I'd rather go home with no # than some flakey proposition.

The weather's getting nicer, girls continue to be flake machines, so minimize the machines and go direct to their flesh. At least then both parties can calibrate to each others' presence.

Post: #23

(03-08-2014 11:33 PM)soup Wrote:  A girl being attracted to you is good game..

Agreed. I have spent a lot of time the last six months on becoming initially more attractive to women with demeanor, posture, style, haircut, etc. It might seem obvious but for 24 years I was slouchy and ill-dressed.

American men tend to neglect style - they are always taught "don't judge a book by its cover."

Post: #24

It depends soup. You mentioned that the majority game is her being attracted to you and you not fucking up. If she is flaking and playing games, you are fucking up, you dropped the ball and shes checking if you walk the walk as much as you talk the talk. I personally next these girls (esp. Tinder etc) and I am more lenient with girls I have met before (got numbers etc).

Flakes who I actually got along with and I saved their numbers/kissed but didn't bang get the standard invite to come party with me and my friends, assuming they flake after first text. Our night is happening, she can come join. I will then see what's up and act accordingly for some reason (probably female FOMO) they usually show up. Night time and celebration times makes it easier to pull.

I would also like to say.. I notice you guys categorizing women like American, Euro women etc... It doesn't matter. There's a few cultural idiosyncrasies here and there. If she flakes and you know what happened during the interaction, problem solved.

Most of the times you just gotta keep the same vibe as your initial interaction and bring her back into your little bubble..

Nonetheless, Soup I admire the courage coming through your writing... Always precise and pushing boundaries.

Post: #25

(03-05-2014 07:41 AM)soup Wrote:  Do any of you guys go more direct if a girl flakes? I've been experimenting with doing this instead of radio silencing them. My thinking is that obviously the old course of action isn't working, so there needs to be a little more to shake things up.

I decide on a case-by-case basis.

Sometimes it's very hard to tell the difference between flakiness because she is just putting up some token resistance/playing hard to get, or flakiness due to the fact that she is actually not interested.

If she starts flaking, I usually make one last contact with her in a much more direct fashion. If she is still flakey at this point, I know she's not interested and I move on.